$24 billion NYC public schools only accepted 7 black students (of 895) to top magnet high schoool

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Improve all schools so someone who doesn’t get into the magnet school isn’t disappointed. The magnet school becomes less about access to superior education and rather matching students to their proper level of academic rigor.

No one wins if it’s a zero sum game. It’s disappointing however that this discussion on racial disparity becomes more charged when Asian Americans are the majority. I hope the discourse stays away from “blaming” Asian Americans.

That's exactly right.

But Dems don't know how "improve all schools," they just know hiw to steal from some to give some.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“This is actually tricky -
Admission to Stuyvesant is determined by a single test avail to all middle school students in NYC.There are no soft criteria-no interviews,no legacy favoritism, no strings to be pulled. It’s all abt test score which determines if you can handle academics.”

- Stephanie Ruhle, MSNBC

Maggie Haberman, NYT, quoted Ruhle to say:
“White students generally have more means with which to prep for this test, some doing it for years. Yes it’s a test, no it is not an equal playing field.”

I’m not sure why Maggie used white when Asians are the ones dominating this system.

The simple truth is that Asian relative overperformance demonstrates that “discrimination” is not a significant driver of outcomes on this sort of test. It has always been a very inconvenient truth for those who insist all groups are equally talented, generally ignored because of that inconvenience, and because Asians didn’t seem to want to make a big issue out of it. Now there is a critical mass of Asians who are going to resist getting shafted in the name of diversity. Will be interesting to see how that all works out.

You think it's a level playing field? So it's just pure talent that is being compared by these tests?

um yeah. There are poor and middle class asian kids who are getting in. That throws out race and SES as an excuse

Many of the Chinese kids I knew at Stuy were straight up poor by NYC standards. Their parents worked very menial jobs in Chinatown and Flushing. Some worked to help support their families, and many took on tons of responsibility at an early age because their parents knew no English.

My neighbor is Chinese, she was a doctor in China. She qualifies for the MPDU in MoCo because the US does not recognize her degree and she does not work as a doctor.

For every one of those examples, there are more examples of under educated Asian immigrants working low level jobs whose kids do well in school.

Many Asian immigrants see education as a means to get out of poverty for their children (and the rest of the family), so they are heavily invested in their children's education. That's all it is. That's all it comes down to.

If the kids getting into Stuy are from gang ridden neighborhoods with lead paint in the walls and parents with mental illness we need to clone them.

Do you think the 45% low income students, 90% of them who are Asians live in luxury? Or do you perhaps think they also live in old buildings with lead paint on the walls? Also, mental illness is a serious issue in the Asian community. It's just never talked about, and certainly people never seek help for it.

As for gangs, have you never heard of Chinese gangs in NYC?

http://gangstersinc.ning.com/profiles/blogs/the-deadly-battle-for-control-over-new-york-s-chinatown

When do the excuses stop? Asian immigrants have gone through racism, desperation, gang violence and extreme poverty just as other groups have.

I am Asian American. I went to a gang infested school and grew up low income. My parents didn't speak English. Like many others, we -- the children - had to translate everything for them.. from school forms to doctors' visits.

A lot of your Asian friends were in gangs?

[Anonymous]

The point is not that Asians are outperforming HI and AA students because of hard work. Asians are also heavily on FARMS and have language barriers. Many of these Asian-American children have parents who are low paid blue collar workers who are working as cooks and janitors. So, in terms of SES, they are very comparable to the HI and AA population.

What is absolutely interesting is that they are outperforming UMC and wealthy White students who have all the advantages - SES, connections, enrichment.

In a conversation with another Asian-American parent, I asked why are Asian kids able to do so well? The answer she gave me was that the Asian parents were the reason why Asian students succeeded. I asked if she meant the stereotypical "Tiger" parenting among Asians and she said "No. The reason the poorest, uneducated Asian parents will produce the highest achieving Asian student is because these parents are willing to give up each and every of their needs and wants for their kids. This is a group that subsists on rice and veggies so that they can scrap a few dollars to get enrichment for their kids, and they do it for their entire life. "

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“This is actually tricky -
Admission to Stuyvesant is determined by a single test avail to all middle school students in NYC.There are no soft criteria-no interviews,no legacy favoritism, no strings to be pulled. It’s all abt test score which determines if you can handle academics.”

- Stephanie Ruhle, MSNBC

Maggie Haberman, NYT, quoted Ruhle to say:
“White students generally have more means with which to prep for this test, some doing it for years. Yes it’s a test, no it is not an equal playing field.”

I’m not sure why Maggie used white when Asians are the ones dominating this system.

Maybe because the # of white students have a higher % of offers for all of the magnet schools? 26.5% offers but 18.1% of test takers.

As a Science alum from the 1980s, the figures in this table appall me. There were a lot more than 25 black kids in my class and no where near the number of Asians indicated.

FWIW, I've known plenty of people who were very smart, worked hard and did well in school but were relatively lousy test takers. It's a skill in and of itself.

These numbers really scream it's time to reevaluate how we do this.

Hi, fellow alum! I’m a Black female and went to Bronx Science in the late 90s. Although I have no idea what the percentage breakdown was, we also had a heck of a lot more Black and Latino students. I wonder if the test or the scoring threshold has changed since then. Back then we only had 3 specialized high schools and Sty was always the hardest to get into and had the least diversity (but it was still more diverse than these numbers). I also remember there was a bridge summer program for minority who just missed the scoring cutoff; they could take a summer program and if they passed, they got into the school. I wonder if this program has also been eliminated, which could be factoring into the lower numbers.

[Anonymous]

$24 billion NYC public schools only accepted 7 black students (of 895) to top magnet high school.

And each of these 7 black kids deserve to be there and are not there because of any false reason like bridging the "achievement gap" through smoke and mirrors as MCPS does. Let's celebrate that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Freshman acceptance:
7 black
33 Latino
587 Asian
194 white

NYCPS district overall is 67% black/Latino, 15% white, 15% Asian. Stuyvesant High School is comparable in selectivity to TJ, but I suppose a bit more prestigious, with more national prominence. This is a huge story.

What is going on here? How are Asians so wildly overrepresented and black and Latin kids so underprepared in a $24 billion annually system?

On the one hand: New York ought to make sure that just about all of the kids who took the test and scored at a minimum level ought to have access to a solid score, with qualified teachers, access to AP classes and tests, etc.

The district can't keep hard-working Asian kids from getting a great education.

But it looks as if only 3.6% of the African-American kids who took that test received offers from any of the test schools.

That means the system is shutting out a lot of serious, bright, hard-working African-American kids with great grades and pushing them into weak schools. That's terrible. Schools need to find ways to nurture and encourage those kids, not slam a door in their face.

Second, one problem not being discussed is that putting kids in schools with few African-American or Latino students is bad for the students in those schools. They're going to end up living in a world in which they're going to have to relate to people who are African-American and Latino, without having much actual experience with relating to people from those groups.

I'm a white person who's the product of those kinds of schools, and I think that kind of segregation is crippling. I can pretend that I'm so wonderfully enlightened and relate to all people the same wonderful way, but that's not actually the truth. It's hard for me to believe that other products of similar schools are all that much more well-equipped for a diverse world than I am. The whole point of South Park is that we're absolutely not.

Some of your points are good; the bolded is arrant nonsense. The notion that any kid who is going to public school in NYC is not going to have "actual experience with relating to" AA or Latino people is ridiculous. They're not going to Horace Mann, firmly ensconced in a private school bubble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

$24 billion NYC public schools only accepted 7 black students (of 895) to top magnet high school.

And each of these 7 black kids deserve to be there and are not there because of any false reason like bridging the "achievement gap" through smoke and mirrors as MCPS does. Let's celebrate that.

Clap clap clap clap clap.

The NYT should have interviewed them and their families to find and share best practices and inspiration.

But racism + fake outrage sure sells more newspapers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Improve all schools so someone who doesn’t get into the magnet school isn’t disappointed. The magnet school becomes less about access to superior education and rather matching students to their proper level of academic rigor.

No one wins if it’s a zero sum game. It’s disappointing however that this discussion on racial disparity becomes more charged when Asian Americans are the majority. I hope the discourse stays away from “blaming” Asian Americans.

That's exactly right.

But Dems don't know how "improve all schools," they just know hiw to steal from some to give some.

As if the MAGA idiots have a clue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Freshman acceptance:
7 black
33 Latino
587 Asian
194 white

NYCPS district overall is 67% black/Latino, 15% white, 15% Asian. Stuyvesant High School is comparable in selectivity to TJ, but I suppose a bit more prestigious, with more national prominence. This is a huge story.

What is going on here? How are Asians so wildly overrepresented and black and Latin kids so underprepared in a $24 billion annually system?

On the one hand: New York ought to make sure that just about all of the kids who took the test and scored at a minimum level ought to have access to a solid score, with qualified teachers, access to AP classes and tests, etc.

The district can't keep hard-working Asian kids from getting a great education.

But it looks as if only 3.6% of the African-American kids who took that test received offers from any of the test schools.

That means the system is shutting out a lot of serious, bright, hard-working African-American kids with great grades and pushing them into weak schools. That's terrible. Schools need to find ways to nurture and encourage those kids, not slam a door in their face.

Second, one problem not being discussed is that putting kids in schools with few African-American or Latino students is bad for the students in those schools. They're going to end up living in a world in which they're going to have to relate to people who are African-American and Latino, without having much actual experience with relating to people from those groups.

I'm a white person who's the product of those kinds of schools, and I think that kind of segregation is crippling. I can pretend that I'm so wonderfully enlightened and relate to all people the same wonderful way, but that's not actually the truth. It's hard for me to believe that other products of similar schools are all that much more well-equipped for a diverse world than I am. The whole point of South Park is that we're absolutely not.

Some of your points are good; the bolded is arrant nonsense. The notion that any kid who is going to public school in NYC is not going to have "actual experience with relating to" AA or Latino people is ridiculous. They're not going to Horace Mann, firmly ensconced in a private school bubble.

You’re saying it’s not possible for a kid growing up in NYC to have few or no black or Latino friends? This was exactly my spouse’s experience growing up on the Upper East Side.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The point is not that Asians are outperforming HI and AA students because of hard work. Asians are also heavily on FARMS and have language barriers. Many of these Asian-American children have parents who are low paid blue collar workers who are working as cooks and janitors. So, in terms of SES, they are very comparable to the HI and AA population.

What is absolutely interesting is that they are outperforming UMC and wealthy White students who have all the advantages - SES, connections, enrichment.

In a conversation with another Asian-American parent, I asked why are Asian kids able to do so well? The answer she gave me was that the Asian parents were the reason why Asian students succeeded. I asked if she meant the stereotypical "Tiger" parenting among Asians and she said "No. The reason the poorest, uneducated Asian parents will produce the highest achieving Asian student is because these parents are willing to give up each and every of their needs and wants for their kids. This is a group that subsists on rice and veggies so that they can scrap a few dollars to get enrichment for their kids, and they do it for their entire life. "

Asian Americans also work hard at academics because there is no safety net relative to whites. Asian Americans face discrimination and prejudice in America that only academic credentials can sometimes buffer. It really raises the stakes for Asian Americans and increases their focus on education and academic achievement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Improve all schools so someone who doesn’t get into the magnet school isn’t disappointed. The magnet school becomes less about access to superior education and rather matching students to their proper level of academic rigor.

No one wins if it’s a zero sum game. It’s disappointing however that this discussion on racial disparity becomes more charged when Asian Americans are the majority. I hope the discourse stays away from “blaming” Asian Americans.

That's exactly right.

But Dems don't know how "improve all schools," they just know hiw to steal from some to give some.

As if the MAGA idiots have a clue.

Bloomberg, a Republican/ Independent, did a much better job for NYC schools and NYC children than "progressive" De Blasio.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“This is actually tricky -
Admission to Stuyvesant is determined by a single test avail to all middle school students in NYC.There are no soft criteria-no interviews,no legacy favoritism, no strings to be pulled. It’s all abt test score which determines if you can handle academics.”

- Stephanie Ruhle, MSNBC

Maggie Haberman, NYT, quoted Ruhle to say:
“White students generally have more means with which to prep for this test, some doing it for years. Yes it’s a test, no it is not an equal playing field.”

I’m not sure why Maggie used white when Asians are the ones dominating this system.

A lot of people, journalists and regular people, are oblivious to the demographic at Stuy.

They’ve been going in on whiteys regarding this since the news broke.

It’s a clear sign people have no ideas what they are talking about OR they have a hidden agenda - which I’m not sure what it is.

[Anonymous]

The thing people are forgetting is black kids that score high enough to get into stuy are getting full rides to top private’s in the city.

Why go to stuy when you can go to dalton or chapin?

[Anonymous]

The commentariat are also forgetting how high of a FARMs rate stuy is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

$24 billion NYC public schools only accepted 7 black students (of 895) to top magnet high school.

And each of these 7 black kids deserve to be there and are not there because of any false reason like bridging the "achievement gap" through smoke and mirrors as MCPS does. Let's celebrate that.

Clap clap clap clap clap.

The NYT should have interviewed them and their families to find and share best practices and inspiration.

But racism + fake outrage sure sells more newspapers.

This is exactly right....understand what those families did and focus on spreading that. Celebrate their achievement instead of incessantly complaining about the lack of URMs.