Do you feel like a sucker if you grew up Middle Class and your family obeyed all of the rules...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Do you feel like a sucker if you grew up middle class...your family obeyed all of the rules...worked the proverbial "9-5" and had nothing to show for it? I feel like we were suckers to work so heard and then couldn't even afford to go out (ever) nor go on vacations. I suspect most Americans are like this and only the uMC/rich get to enjoy the perks/profits off the backs of the MC

Boo hoo. News flash, you are not entitled to anything. Why do you feel that by growing up middle class and following the rules you are entitled to a certain lifestyle?

You probably live in comfortable home with heat, a/c, several televisions, and have a car. There are many people who have much much less. Are you sad because you don’t drive a Lexus and vacation in Paris every year? Not everyone can live in a McMansion.

Finally, it’s really not that hard to figure out how to have a high income if that is your priority. If you did not grow up rich, you will need a profession that pays well to have a more comfortable lifestyle. For example doctor, banking, big law. Engineering or business owner is another option. It’s not exactly a secret the professions such as teaching are hard work but pay less. Are you expecting to live a cushy lifestyle on a teacher salary?

You are totally correct. Teachers are worthless and have no place in society. How dare they expect the dignity of a living wage.

Please actually read my comment before posting inane replies. No where did I say anything even remotely close to your comment.

Most teachers I know (family and friends) work incredibly hard at a very very difficult job. I personally believe that teachers in most geographies in the US are significantly underpaid. Not only underpaid, they are undervalued compared to other public sector workers such as cops and firefighters.

However, not one of them whines about being a ‘sucker’ (what an infantile term) for going into their chosen profession. Salaries are publicly available and stable. No one went into teaching expecting to be able to take European vacations each year and drive a Range Rover. While they are underpaid, they certainly make a living wage.

I hope that you are not teaching my children with your demonstrated level of reading comprehension.

If you are the "boo hoo/newsflash person", you know you just totally contradicted yourself. Why shouldn't teachers have cushy lifestyles? Seriously, why shouldn't they make 6 figures?

Again, reading comprehension. Try it.

There is nothing wrong with choosing profession or 9-5 that aligns to your interests and abilities, despite it not being high paying. My problem is with the OP and public school teacher posters who lament choosing a 9-5 / middle class profession and then gripe about not being able to afford luxuries in life. If you want to be UMC and afford a cushy lifestyle, then you need an income that pays more. Teaching does not pay for an UMC lifestyle and everyone knows this.

hahahahaha. You actually think teaching is a 9-5 job? Also why should teachers not make 6 figures? They work 60 hour weeks if you know anything about teaching and they have to pay for continual professional development. This is like an office worker who sits around all day.

Maybe 60 hour weeks with a few months off in the summer. Don’t lecture me about what it’s like to be a teacher, I have been one. Have you?

hahahah. Yep I was a teacher. So you are seriously saying you taught and you don't believe in increasing teacher pay? You are a piece of work. Good luck with that. Karma exists.

[Anonymous]

Finally, it’s really not that hard to figure out how to have a high income if that is your priority. If you did not grow up rich, you will need a profession that pays well to have a more comfortable lifestyle. For example doctor, banking, big law. Engineering or business owner is another option.



I wish it were so easy. Just picking a profession that pays well won't make you rich. I'm a lobbyist and my husband is an engineer. We do ok but we aren't rich. Life is complicated. The combination of good and bad decisions, good and bad luck, bosses, companies, health, relationships, expenses, etc etc. Certainly you have a better chance of having a higher income if you pick a field that pays well but it takes a lot more than just being in that field.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Uh the “foreign Asians” who tend to do well here do well bc of selective immigration policies. They don’t just let anyone in. The biggest boom post 1965 was specifically for highly educated Asians who came here for grad school. More recently ther has been a return to preferencing people with money and education. It’s not just a random sampling of people from Asia.

Yes and no. Sure there was in a wave in the 70s and another in the early/mid 2000s that was mostly engineers/IT. They came in via sponsorships for jobs or for grad school; so of course with parents like that, the kids will do well bc their parents expect a lot re education, know about various professions etc. But there have been MANY waves otherwise where not so educated Asians have come in thru visa lotteries, chain migration thru their one successful brother in the US etc. These are the people you often see at nail salons, Motel 6, 7-11s, random secretaries in medical offices, random office jobs, taxi drivers, jobs in NYC restaurants etc. Sure some of the folks at nail salons, Motel 6, 7-11 are actual business owners; they were able to hustle in whatever jobs they could find in America until they had just enough to take out loans to buy a franchise/business and ultimately they do well. But all the others you see at Dunkin Donuts etc. -- those are employees, making min wage usually. Yet whether you talk to an Asian doctor or Dunkin cashier -- the goals for their kids are ALWAYS the same -- medicine, engineering, law, or finance (and I say finance only bc I grew up in NY metro where everyone understands the riches of Wall Street; say finance to my family in Texas and they act horrified as they have visions of their child managing a Verizon store for 40k/yr or being a cold calling insurance salesmen) AND going to an ivy/similar school.

Honestly how many Asian kids do you know who say to you they're gonna go to college to be teachers or work in non profits or change the world bc that's their passion? They are raised to make SOLID money first and THEN if they want to do something else later in life like start a business or whatever, that's their choice. All of the Asians I grew up with (some w aforementioned engineer parents; some with convenience store parents) all went to the absolute best school that accepted them -- often ivys even if it meant serious parental and child sacrifice via loans -- and all are now doctors; engineers; lawyers; or on wall street. The engineers/lawyers/finance folks went to good enough schools to be recruited into major engineering firms, biglaw, and investment banking. We're all in our mid-late 30s now and some have already started to "step back" their careers bc they feel they made the $$. But lets be honest, 10+ yrs in biglaw or at Goldman gives you options that gov't lifers or non profit or social workers just don't have.

So go into teaching or social work or whatever your passion projects are, no one says you shouldn't. But don't act like it 's some mystery how certain nationalities are uplifting themselves/remaining financially solid generation after generation even if they don't come from money. Honestly what happened with Asians for 20-30 yrs in the US now seems to be happening with Nigerian Americans now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Finally, it’s really not that hard to figure out how to have a high income if that is your priority. If you did not grow up rich, you will need a profession that pays well to have a more comfortable lifestyle. For example doctor, banking, big law. Engineering or business owner is another option.



I wish it were so easy. Just picking a profession that pays well won't make you rich. I'm a lobbyist and my husband is an engineer. We do ok but we aren't rich. Life is complicated. The combination of good and bad decisions, good and bad luck, bosses, companies, health, relationships, expenses, etc etc. Certainly you have a better chance of having a higher income if you pick a field that pays well but it takes a lot more than just being in that field.

Sure there's luck, decision making, geography etc. that gets you to the TOP salary level for your field. But just by virtue of being an engineer, your DH at least has a FLOOR for his salary -- i.e. there is no engineering job in America that'll pay 20k or 30k -- I'd venture to guess no one would attempt to hire an engineer for under 50 or 75k even in a LCOL. So you're not guaranteed rich, but you are guaranteed at least middle class, no? That's not a guarantee for everyone. Though I think engineering can be rough bc it's a field that IME tends to have a lot of job loss/pushing out people after age 50 etc.

[Anonymous]

I don't know if the MC thing makes me think sucker -- but TBH I think sucker when middle class/no trust fund or family $ types of people pursue occupations where they can't make top dollar, when there are better financial options out there. So yeah -- teachers; random business degrees w/o any sort of path into banking/consulting/real estate development etc; lawyers who go non profit when their ivy degrees can certainly land them in biglaw.

To a fault these friends of mine have screamed -- I don't care about money; you're soooo materialistic; I'm doing what makes me happy. Fast forward to age 40 and it's constantly -- do you think so and so is non equity partner or equity; how did they buy that house; how much do you think he bought his business for; they're going on vacation AGAIN!? For people who claimed money didn't matter, they surely focus on others' money -- which of course ignoring the fact that their friend with the big house and 3rd vacation of the yr stayed in biglaw or finance for 15 yrs while they bolted in 18 months to the first non profit that hired them.

If you have the financial backing of a trust fund, by all means do whatever you want. For all the rest though -- realize that life costs money and those costs keep rising so when your friends want to grind away to make $$ it's because they want a comfortable life so don't be mad/jealous/judgmental about what they've worked hard for.

[Anonymous]

I grew up very MC and we were always very happy and I assumed that I'd live the same way. Early in my career we had a very MC lifestyle and we maintained it even when our income increased significantly. We liked where we lived and liked our friends and we saw no reason to change. Over time friends moved away and eventually we relocated for an even bigger job. At that point our lifestyle changed but our happiest days were our MC days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Uh the “foreign Asians” who tend to do well here do well bc of selective immigration policies. They don’t just let anyone in. The biggest boom post 1965 was specifically for highly educated Asians who came here for grad school. More recently ther has been a return to preferencing people with money and education. It’s not just a random sampling of people from Asia.

Exactly. But PPP and others have a way of allowing facts get in the way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Uh the “foreign Asians” who tend to do well here do well bc of selective immigration policies. They don’t just let anyone in. The biggest boom post 1965 was specifically for highly educated Asians who came here for grad school. More recently ther has been a return to preferencing people with money and education. It’s not just a random sampling of people from Asia.

Exactly. But PPP and others have a way of allowing facts get in the way.

So the woman doing your nails at the salon or the dude making your coffee at Dunkin came here for grad school? Sure. Don't get facts get in the way of your excuse making.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you feel like a sucker if you grew up middle class...your family obeyed all of the rules...worked the proverbial "9-5" and had nothing to show for it? I feel like we were suckers to work so heard and then couldn't even afford to go out (ever) nor go on vacations. I suspect most Americans are like this and only the uMC/rich get to enjoy the perks/profits off the backs of the MC

What rule#?

No risk no reward. You don't make money working for somebody. You make money creating something and taking a risk.

You miss 100% of the shots you never take.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our generation is getting screwed every which way. Our parents had reasonably priced healthcare, mostly reasonable college costs, company provided pensions.

We both work and can’t afford much past the house and daycare. Since his family isn’t local, all our vacation time and funds are spent on family visits rather than proper vacations.

I think you are idealizing the past. The standard of living has risen in that people have more stuff. A middle class existence then would be considered living LMC now.

My family was solidly middle class then and we did not take "proper vacations"! We visited family or we went camping. Always driving, no flights. We hardly went out to eat -- that was a special occasion. Kids shared rooms and bathrooms. One telephone line. One tv with 3 channels.

Now homes have expanded, people think every kid must have their own room, plus a car, and screens are everywhere. Plus taking proper vacations of course.

I agree that healthcare and education costs have gotten out of hand, but a middle class life was much simpler a few decades ago.

Yup and we grew up with ONE car. ONE and we kept it 12 years. A family of 5 and a dog and a sedan and 15 hour car rides in winter to Florida for Christmas.

The poster is living in a fantasy that never existed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No, OP. That was normal. Now avocado toast is normal. It's all relative, but don't judge your childhood by today's standards.

Right? When I was a child in the 80s bologna sandwiches on wonder bread were normal. Not avocado toast and gluten free pasta. Birthday parties were not at bounce houses, but in the party room in our apartment building with pin thr tail on the donkey. Vacations were to Ocean City and a screen was ONE TV we shared with bunny ears in the living room. I wore jelly shoes and converse. If I was lucky I got the Reebok high tops.

People today wonder why they will work until their are dead? Lol!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not sure what everyone thinks they deserve. 20, 30 and definitely not 40 years ago did we have the expense of Starbucks, cell phones, travel soccer, and everything else that eats into our pockets. Look at the difference in how we live now vs then, honestly, and then compare. Also, not everyone deserves to be rich because you think you do.

I don't need to be rich or even need a vacation every year or ever. I just want to not live pay check to pay check and be paid commensurate to my education and experience. I would also like people to pay their fair share of taxes. Yes, I think people who are the top 20 percent and above should pay more taxes so that we can feed poor children. Call me a socialist or whatever you want. I just think feeding and educating children is important.

Well, what is your education and pay? I'm guessing you got a hobby degree. If you expected to educate yourself into an high paying job, why didn't you pick finance or business?

[Anonymous]

I think this item messaged previously below sums things up pretty well. Instead of more meals at home, you can pick up or have something shipped to you. Instead of playing outside for nothing, the kids go to a jump zone, or some other activity with expense. Instead of pick-up sports, there are more organized and competitive leagues, heaven forbid you do not have proper gear or training because your child might not do well. Add in cost of phones, computers, TVs, meaning that most people have multiple devices. Also travel, while incredible to be able to go anywhere in the world with enough money, still more than that road trip when you were a kid. More costly healthcare. Etc. Etc. And of course real estate in some locations.

Life has generally become more expensive, well beyond traditional inflation. The argument in response could be that you do not need to partake, or that you are getting something in exchange for those added costs. But as this thread seems to suggest, these items may not necessarily buy you greater happiness or fulfillment.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, OP. That was normal. Now avocado toast is normal. It's all relative, but don't judge your childhood by today's standards.

Right? When I was a child in the 80s bologna sandwiches on wonder bread were normal. Not avocado toast and gluten free pasta. Birthday parties were not at bounce houses, but in the party room in our apartment building with pin thr tail on the donkey. Vacations were to Ocean City and a screen was ONE TV we shared with bunny ears in the living room. I wore jelly shoes and converse. If I was lucky I got the Reebok high tops.

People today wonder why they will work until their are dead? Lol!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, OP. That was normal. Now avocado toast is normal. It's all relative, but don't judge your childhood by today's standards.

Right? When I was a child in the 80s bologna sandwiches on wonder bread were normal. Not avocado toast and gluten free pasta. Birthday parties were not at bounce houses, but in the party room in our apartment building with pin thr tail on the donkey. Vacations were to Ocean City and a screen was ONE TV we shared with bunny ears in the living room. I wore jelly shoes and converse. If I was lucky I got the Reebok high tops.

People today wonder why they will work until their are dead? Lol!

I haven't been on a vacation in 5 years. And my children have birthdays at home that don't include presents or cake. In fact, we didn't have a Christmas tree for you. We make 200k and do everything possible to live within our means. It isn't avocado toast or lattes we are spending our money on. What country are you even living in because we are obviously in different places!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, OP. That was normal. Now avocado toast is normal. It's all relative, but don't judge your childhood by today's standards.

Right? When I was a child in the 80s bologna sandwiches on wonder bread were normal. Not avocado toast and gluten free pasta. Birthday parties were not at bounce houses, but in the party room in our apartment building with pin thr tail on the donkey. Vacations were to Ocean City and a screen was ONE TV we shared with bunny ears in the living room. I wore jelly shoes and converse. If I was lucky I got the Reebok high tops.

People today wonder why they will work until their are dead? Lol!

I haven't been on a vacation in 5 years. And my children have birthdays at home that don't include presents or cake. In fact, we didn't have a Christmas tree for you. We make 200k and do everything possible to live within our means. It isn't avocado toast or lattes we are spending our money on. What country are you even living in because we are obviously in different places!

If you make 200k and cant afford a Christmas tree, and wint be able to retire I have nothing for you.