Do you feel like a sucker if you grew up Middle Class and your family obeyed all of the rules...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I want my littles to be successful and not have to live like I did. Me and the hubby are MC but it’s hard. We have to put 5 kids through school and it’s going to be tough. But we can do it. Blessings.

Encourage your littles to join the armed services, which will then happily pay for their college educations. We did this and our adult kids have never had to ask us for a dime towards school. They also got into MUCH better schools than they would have right out of college and were serious about school, instead of nonstop drinking and partying. Our friends thought we were crazy and looked askance but aren't doing do anymore. No one has to go into combat. The pay is decent and the training is good. They will have a fine career as officers after college if they choose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want my littles to be successful and not have to live like I did. Me and the hubby are MC but it’s hard. We have to put 5 kids through school and it’s going to be tough. But we can do it. Blessings.

Encourage your littles to join the armed services, which will then happily pay for their college educations. We did this and our adult kids have never had to ask us for a dime towards school. They also got into MUCH better schools than they would have right out of college and were serious about school, instead of nonstop drinking and partying. Our friends thought we were crazy and looked askance but aren't doing do anymore. No one has to go into combat. The pay is decent and the training is good. They will have a fine career as officers after college if they choose.

The dept of defense also give scholarships in return for working in their labs around the country - kids get a stipend also. So not just military options.

[Anonymous]

I felt like a sucker when our friend's daughter got a lot of financial aid for private school because they had no savings to declare (all spent on fancy cars, vacations...). We went camping, drove old cars and saved money, which we had to declare. We didn't qualify for any aid, despite both families earning essentially the same amount.
On the up side? Our kids, who are now adults, live within their means. Their kids don't, so, in retrospect, I'm glad we set a good example.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I felt like a sucker when our friend's daughter got a lot of financial aid for private school because they had no savings to declare (all spent on fancy cars, vacations...). We went camping, drove old cars and saved money, which we had to declare. We didn't qualify for any aid, despite both families earning essentially the same amount.
On the up side? Our kids, who are now adults, live within their means. Their kids don't, so, in retrospect, I'm glad we set a good example.

You’re both suckers for being middle class and sending your kids to private school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I felt like a sucker when our friend's daughter got a lot of financial aid for private school because they had no savings to declare (all spent on fancy cars, vacations...). We went camping, drove old cars and saved money, which we had to declare. We didn't qualify for any aid, despite both families earning essentially the same amount.
On the up side? Our kids, who are now adults, live within their means. Their kids don't, so, in retrospect, I'm glad we set a good example.

You’re both suckers for being middle class and sending your kids to private school.

This.

Prime example of dumb choices middle class people make. They have UMC wants on a MC income. Dumb as f%ck.

[Anonymous]

Many of those “rich” that all of you think get the tax benefits do so because they own businesses and took risks. We are one of them. We took huge personal financial risks to open our business, worked our butts off and now reap the rewards years later. We also employ 20 plus people who may or may not have quality insurance and a living wage. So, I don’t feel sorry for getting tax breaks because there were many years that my dh didn’t take an income while we paid our employees on time every time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many of those “rich” that all of you think get the tax benefits do so because they own businesses and took risks. We are one of them. We took huge personal financial risks to open our business, worked our butts off and now reap the rewards years later. We also employ 20 plus people who may or may not have quality insurance and a living wage. So, I don’t feel sorry for getting tax breaks because there were many years that my dh didn’t take an income while we paid our employees on time every time.

You don't pay your employees a living wage and think that is okay because you went without a wage for a few years? You are the problem!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you feel like a sucker if you grew up middle class...your family obeyed all of the rules...worked the proverbial "9-5" and had nothing to show for it? I feel like we were suckers to work so heard and then couldn't even afford to go out (ever) nor go on vacations. I suspect most Americans are like this and only the uMC/rich get to enjoy the perks/profits off the backs of the MC

Nope, don't feel like suckers. We probably weren't even middle class when it came to income (because we were such a large family) but we lived in a decent neighborhood (in a house too small for us, I shared bathroom with 4 others and a bedroom with 2 others) and my parents were educated and raised us with as much free culture as we could get, so lots of trips to libraries, our local free museums and zoo, etc.

Growing up without a lot of material things, with all hand-me-downs, etc. taught me 1) to be thrifty and 2) to have empathy for others less fortunate than me.

We were never hungry. And even if our 2nd-hand clothes were sometimes ill-fitting or out of style, we were never cold, and even if I had to share a bed until I was 12 with a sibling, we still had a roof over our head. And even though we only went on 3 vacations during my entire childhood, one of which was about 3 days long, we had the world at our fingertips from books borrowed from the library and given as gifts at Christmas.

That being said, I do believe income inequality is getting completey out of control.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many of those “rich” that all of you think get the tax benefits do so because they own businesses and took risks. We are one of them. We took huge personal financial risks to open our business, worked our butts off and now reap the rewards years later. We also employ 20 plus people who may or may not have quality insurance and a living wage. So, I don’t feel sorry for getting tax breaks because there were many years that my dh didn’t take an income while we paid our employees on time every time.

My grandfather is the same. Many years he didn’t take an income to pay his employees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Really great piece on npr about manafort, etc and offshoring money. How they hide assets so they can evade taxes and spend freely. So I would beg to differ with the person saying the rich pay taxes. That's just the money we know about. I'm sure the OP certainly includes this in her thing about following the rules.

I can assure you that "regular rich" w2 wage slave employees play a ton in taxes. You are putting forth an example of a person who managed to launder 18M. This is not an example of regular rich

Yes but i did find myself wondering how many manaforts there are out there. How many of our neighbors are actually committing tax fraud or white collar crime. Watching this administration what i see is there are appear to be a lot of people walking around without a conscience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you feel like a sucker if you grew up middle class...your family obeyed all of the rules...worked the proverbial "9-5" and had nothing to show for it? I feel like we were suckers to work so heard and then couldn't even afford to go out (ever) nor go on vacations. I suspect most Americans are like this and only the uMC/rich get to enjoy the perks/profits off the backs of the MC

I find it humorous that you admitting to doing the proverbial "9-5" in one sentence, and then claim that you worked hard in the very next sentence. Sorry, 9-5 is not working hard, it's just the bare minimum for full time employment. My parents did the 9-5, they were very risk averse and got themselves into a comfortable retirement after saving up the salaries as two working professionals. When I was a kid, we didn't go on a lot of vacations, certainly not abroad. 99% of the time our vacation was a road trip. Come to think of it I don't think we ever flew anywhere for vacation.

My kids will have a very different idea on what hard work is. Between the office and at home I usually work 10-12 hours a day, and between 4-20 hours on the weekends depending on demands of running the business. The rest of my time is almost entirely taken up with spending it with the family, so I'm almost never at happy hours or get-together unless we happen to be hosting something at the office. There are days when something bad happens at work and I can't help but bring some of it home - I resent myself for it and consciously try to push it away, but I'm human so I know it seeps through. My youngest sometimes comes and pats me on the head and say "it's okay dad."

On the flip side, My kids definitely have traveled far more than other kids. They've gone on two international trips in 2018, and we have plans on at least two next year. We've been very fortunate and I am thankful for everything I have. Life has rewarded me for the work that I put in, and I remind myself everyday just how good I have it.

So in general, you get out of life what you put in. If you just want to do the 9-5, then you'll get "9-5" type of rewards. If you want more, you have to do more.

[Anonymous]

The Manafort and Cohen types were what came to mind when I read the subject line and opened the thread. I wonder how common it is for non-W2 folks to omit income from their tax returns or outright lie (i.e. inflate cost basis or other deductions).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Manafort and Cohen types were what came to mind when I read the subject line and opened the thread. I wonder how common it is for non-W2 folks to omit income from their tax returns or outright lie (i.e. inflate cost basis or other deductions).

That's a tough question to answer. Due to the complexity of US Tax law, a lot comes down to "treatment". Things like cost basis, deductions, and etc, often exist on a continuum rather than black/white. A position is often described in terms of conservative or aggressive. A conservative treatment is one that has low audit risk and IRS will almost certainly agree with the treatment if audited. An aggressive position is one that has a higher likelihood of being audited, or higher chance of IRS disagreeing if audited. Higher chance doesn't mean 100% chance, which is why some may choose to take an aggressive position. But is it illegal? Again it depends, because there is a chance that IRS could audit it and decide that it's okay.

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry you feel that way OP.

I do sometimes feel like a sucker for having most of our money be regular income that is taxed at the highest rate.

Especially when you look at people like the Trumps who don't pay any taxes because of loopholes and fancy accounting. It is infuriating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Manafort and Cohen types were what came to mind when I read the subject line and opened the thread. I wonder how common it is for non-W2 folks to omit income from their tax returns or outright lie (i.e. inflate cost basis or other deductions).

That's a tough question to answer. Due to the complexity of US Tax law, a lot comes down to "treatment". Things like cost basis, deductions, and etc, often exist on a continuum rather than black/white. A position is often described in terms of conservative or aggressive. A conservative treatment is one that has low audit risk and IRS will almost certainly agree with the treatment if audited. An aggressive position is one that has a higher likelihood of being audited, or higher chance of IRS disagreeing if audited. Higher chance doesn't mean 100% chance, which is why some may choose to take an aggressive position. But is it illegal? Again it depends, because there is a chance that IRS could audit it and decide that it's okay.

I'm talking about flat out lying. For example, brokerage firms used to not track/report the cost basis for securities so one could basically make up their original purchase price. Another example would be buying new carpet for your house and claiming it as a deduction against a rental property as a repair.