Do you feel like a sucker if you grew up Middle Class and your family obeyed all of the rules...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, OP. That was normal. Now avocado toast is normal. It's all relative, but don't judge your childhood by today's standards.

Right? When I was a child in the 80s bologna sandwiches on wonder bread were normal. Not avocado toast and gluten free pasta. Birthday parties were not at bounce houses, but in the party room in our apartment building with pin thr tail on the donkey. Vacations were to Ocean City and a screen was ONE TV we shared with bunny ears in the living room. I wore jelly shoes and converse. If I was lucky I got the Reebok high tops.

People today wonder why they will work until their are dead? Lol!

I haven't been on a vacation in 5 years. And my children have birthdays at home that don't include presents or cake. In fact, we didn't have a Christmas tree for you. We make 200k and do everything possible to live within our means. It isn't avocado toast or lattes we are spending our money on. What country are you even living in because we are obviously in different places!

NP. Do you have a lot of consumer debt? Student loans? Too much mortgage? We make about what you do with two young kids, and we're doing just fine.

[Anonymous]

Really great piece on npr about manafort, etc and offshoring money. How they hide assets so they can evade taxes and spend freely. So I would beg to differ with the person saying the rich pay taxes. That's just the money we know about. I'm sure the OP certainly includes this in her thing about following the rules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Really great piece on npr about manafort, etc and offshoring money. How they hide assets so they can evade taxes and spend freely. So I would beg to differ with the person saying the rich pay taxes. That's just the money we know about. I'm sure the OP certainly includes this in her thing about following the rules.

I can assure you that "regular rich" w2 wage slave employees play a ton in taxes. You are putting forth an example of a person who managed to launder 18M. This is not an example of regular rich

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel this way too. I don’t know how me and my littles are going to survive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, OP. That was normal. Now avocado toast is normal. It's all relative, but don't judge your childhood by today's standards.

Right? When I was a child in the 80s bologna sandwiches on wonder bread were normal. Not avocado toast and gluten free pasta. Birthday parties were not at bounce houses, but in the party room in our apartment building with pin thr tail on the donkey. Vacations were to Ocean City and a screen was ONE TV we shared with bunny ears in the living room. I wore jelly shoes and converse. If I was lucky I got the Reebok high tops.

People today wonder why they will work until their are dead? Lol!

I haven't been on a vacation in 5 years. And my children have birthdays at home that don't include presents or cake. In fact, we didn't have a Christmas tree for you. We make 200k and do everything possible to live within our means. It isn't avocado toast or lattes we are spending our money on. What country are you even living in because we are obviously in different places!

If you make 200k and cant afford a Christmas tree, and wint be able to retire I have nothing for you.

Lol. I make $175k and I can confirm we have a Christmas tree and go on vacation and give our kid a birthday present. And max out my 401k and add $5k each year for each of 3 kids in a 529. You're doing it wrong.

(Re: birthday present, you could get something for $10 from Goodwill and make your own damn cake for less than the cost of a box of oreos -- to impose this on your kids at $200k you must have some sort of problem.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Uh the “foreign Asians” who tend to do well here do well bc of selective immigration policies. They don’t just let anyone in. The biggest boom post 1965 was specifically for highly educated Asians who came here for grad school. More recently ther has been a return to preferencing people with money and education. It’s not just a random sampling of people from Asia.

Exactly. But PPP and others have a way of allowing facts get in the way.

So the woman doing your nails at the salon or the dude making your coffee at Dunkin came here for grad school? Sure. Don't get facts get in the way of your excuse making.

As someone from a immigrant family and grew up in an immigrant community, I can tell you those people exist. I don't understand why it's hard to fathom the idea that grad school students sometimes have to work those jobs because they have to make ends meet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, OP. That was normal. Now avocado toast is normal. It's all relative, but don't judge your childhood by today's standards.

Right? When I was a child in the 80s bologna sandwiches on wonder bread were normal. Not avocado toast and gluten free pasta. Birthday parties were not at bounce houses, but in the party room in our apartment building with pin thr tail on the donkey. Vacations were to Ocean City and a screen was ONE TV we shared with bunny ears in the living room. I wore jelly shoes and converse. If I was lucky I got the Reebok high tops.

People today wonder why they will work until their are dead? Lol!

I haven't been on a vacation in 5 years. And my children have birthdays at home that don't include presents or cake. In fact, we didn't have a Christmas tree for you. We make 200k and do everything possible to live within our means. It isn't avocado toast or lattes we are spending our money on. What country are you even living in because we are obviously in different places!

Everything possible such as?

When people complain about not being able to afford things while making a high salary, it's always because their expectations don't match their salary, and they financially stretch themselves to make those expectations work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My rich aunt Recently told my husband:

“You’re middle class and middle class people are suckers.”

Very simple. We are suckers until we vote for people who advocate for our interests. Until then we can sit and watch the people around us struggle. Very fun!

I agree with this. We're not suckers as individuals for not gaming the system, we might be suckers for not trying harder to change it.

What exactly are you looking for......government handouts? How is it being a sucker to raise your children to be good people and to provide for your family? What rules exactly are you contemplating to break?

Np. I think maybe that we are the only ones who pay 33% taxes on our money. We don't have enough to pay people to figure out how to pay less.

But it's never been easier and cheaper to do your taxes and maximize deductions and tax planning. Twenty years ago you'd have to hire an expensive accountant but today you can pay $10 for an online tax software package.

But it's all straightforward. People who just have basic deductions on income are the ones paying 33% with no other options. The. Little people paying the taxes.

Rich people pay all the taxes. There is no magic deduction where rich people don't pay. Often greater than 50% including fed , state, real estate, sales , utility, alcohol, gas, phone surcharges.

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our generation is getting screwed every which way. Our parents had reasonably priced healthcare, mostly reasonable college costs, company provided pensions.

We both work and can’t afford much past the house and daycare. Since his family isn’t local, all our vacation time and funds are spent on family visits rather than proper vacations.

I think you are idealizing the past. The standard of living has risen in that people have more stuff. A middle class existence then would be considered living LMC now.

My family was solidly middle class then and we did not take "proper vacations"! We visited family or we went camping. Always driving, no flights. We hardly went out to eat -- that was a special occasion. Kids shared rooms and bathrooms. One telephone line. One tv with 3 channels.

Now homes have expanded, people think every kid must have their own room, plus a car, and screens are everywhere. Plus taking proper vacations of course.

I agree that healthcare and education costs have gotten out of hand, but a middle class life was much simpler a few decades ago.

The size of the average single-family home in 1950 was 980 square feet. It's now 2,641. People ate the vast majority of their meals at home. In fact, in the late 1980's, when I moved to DC, there weren't all that many good restaurants.

When I was a kid in the 70's, only rich people took vacations that involved flying on airplanes, much less flying overseas. Long-distance calls were incredibly expensive. When I was in college, I could only afford to call my Mom once a week, and we couldn't talk very long. Clothes were relatively expensive, compared to now. A relatively "cheap" t-shirt was $20, which would be about $110 now (adjusted for inflation).

Agree that the big ticket items (healthcare, education) are more expensive, but with regard to healthcare, we have amazing technology for diagnosis that didn't exist in the 70's, and there are treatments for diseases that used to be a death sentence.

Don't get me started on college costs -- I believe skyrocketing college costs are the direct result of policies that made borrowing money for college easy. The people who run universities are as susceptible to market forces as anyone else. If you set up a system that allows them to charge more, they will. I can't believe what my alma mater looks like these days. The construction is constant, and there's no more open space left, so they're starting to tear down older buildings to build. The focus now is on the "experience," not the education. But again, students have higher expectations -- and they're paying more as a result.

Top university presidents man over a million a year. A YEAR.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our generation is getting screwed every which way. Our parents had reasonably priced healthcare, mostly reasonable college costs, company provided pensions.

We both work and can’t afford much past the house and daycare. Since his family isn’t local, all our vacation time and funds are spent on family visits rather than proper vacations.

I think you are idealizing the past. The standard of living has risen in that people have more stuff. A middle class existence then would be considered living LMC now.

My family was solidly middle class then and we did not take "proper vacations"! We visited family or we went camping. Always driving, no flights. We hardly went out to eat -- that was a special occasion. Kids shared rooms and bathrooms. One telephone line. One tv with 3 channels.

Now homes have expanded, people think every kid must have their own room, plus a car, and screens are everywhere. Plus taking proper vacations of course.

I agree that healthcare and education costs have gotten out of hand, but a middle class life was much simpler a few decades ago.

The size of the average single-family home in 1950 was 980 square feet. It's now 2,641. People ate the vast majority of their meals at home. In fact, in the late 1980's, when I moved to DC, there weren't all that many good restaurants.

When I was a kid in the 70's, only rich people took vacations that involved flying on airplanes, much less flying overseas. Long-distance calls were incredibly expensive. When I was in college, I could only afford to call my Mom once a week, and we couldn't talk very long. Clothes were relatively expensive, compared to now. A relatively "cheap" t-shirt was $20, which would be about $110 now (adjusted for inflation).

Agree that the big ticket items (healthcare, education) are more expensive, but with regard to healthcare, we have amazing technology for diagnosis that didn't exist in the 70's, and there are treatments for diseases that used to be a death sentence.

Don't get me started on college costs -- I believe skyrocketing college costs are the direct result of policies that made borrowing money for college easy. The people who run universities are as susceptible to market forces as anyone else. If you set up a system that allows them to charge more, they will. I can't believe what my alma mater looks like these days. The construction is constant, and there's no more open space left, so they're starting to tear down older buildings to build. The focus now is on the "experience," not the education. But again, students have higher expectations -- and they're paying more as a result.

Top university presidents man over a million a year. A YEAR.

So do CEOs who don't pay there employees a living wage. What are you upset about?

[Anonymous]

Anyone who gets a W-2 from someone else and pays full taxes is a sucker. I'm one of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, OP. That was normal. Now avocado toast is normal. It's all relative, but don't judge your childhood by today's standards.

Right? When I was a child in the 80s bologna sandwiches on wonder bread were normal. Not avocado toast and gluten free pasta. Birthday parties were not at bounce houses, but in the party room in our apartment building with pin thr tail on the donkey. Vacations were to Ocean City and a screen was ONE TV we shared with bunny ears in the living room. I wore jelly shoes and converse. If I was lucky I got the Reebok high tops.

People today wonder why they will work until their are dead? Lol!

I haven't been on a vacation in 5 years. And my children have birthdays at home that don't include presents or cake. In fact, we didn't have a Christmas tree for you. We make 200k and do everything possible to live within our means. It isn't avocado toast or lattes we are spending our money on. What country are you even living in because we are obviously in different places!

Do you have a large family? Large mortgage? Large medical expenses? We were less than that for about 5 years when I SAH but certainly had bday parties, Christmas tree, beach vacations, etc. Maybe daycare?

[Anonymous]

Those w W2 income carry the tax burden. The wealthy w passive income (aka Buffett), real estate developers (ala Trump) and hedge funders w their carried interest taxes at a lower rate are the rich getting away w paying lower taxes....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No, OP. That was normal. Now avocado toast is normal. It's all relative, but don't judge your childhood by today's standards.

Avocado Toast is not normal, boxed breakfast cereal and bagels are normal. Avocado toast is normal for entitled, status conscious , bratty millennials.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My rich aunt Recently told my husband:

“You’re middle class and middle class people are suckers.”

Very simple. We are suckers until we vote for people who advocate for our interests. Until then we can sit and watch the people around us struggle. Very fun!

I agree with this. We're not suckers as individuals for not gaming the system, we might be suckers for not trying harder to change it.

What exactly are you looking for......government handouts? How is it being a sucker to raise your children to be good people and to provide for your family? What rules exactly are you contemplating to break?

Np. I think maybe that we are the only ones who pay 33% taxes on our money. We don't have enough to pay people to figure out how to pay less.

But it's never been easier and cheaper to do your taxes and maximize deductions and tax planning. Twenty years ago you'd have to hire an expensive accountant but today you can pay $10 for an online tax software package.

But it's all straightforward. People who just have basic deductions on income are the ones paying 33% with no other options. The. Little people paying the taxes.

Rich people pay all the taxes. There is no magic deduction where rich people don't pay. Often greater than 50% including fed , state, real estate, sales , utility, alcohol, gas, phone surcharges.

+100

Rich people don't pay many taxes at all as a percentage of their incomes. Upper middle class people get hit pretty hard.