Pelvic exams on unconscious women

[Anonymous]

With all of the male hatred on DCUM, I feel very sorry for your sons, husbands, fathers, brothers, etc. Most men are not abusers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here- just want to say I am a med student and read about this practice in a book written by a physician who went to college in early 70s. I thought this practice was over until I saw this article on meddit. I am OUTRAGED that this is even a thing and I hope female physicians can STAND UP to this. disgusting.

Hi OP! I am glad you are educating readers and taking it upon yourself to change this aspect of medical culture. As an RN, I have seen female attending surgical gyns oversee these exams on unaware, anesthetized patients. I was horrified, but didn't say anything at the time. No one said anything. It was part of being a patient in a teaching hospital, 20 years ago.

. You must be lying. Everyone on DCUM knows that it is only horrible men who would do such a thing!

Mostly true. But female attendings were trained by mostly males. Most males are horrible when unaccountable.

Most men? I feel really sorry for you that this is your view of humanity--and you are wrong. Most men are not horrible.

Yes they are. Slavery. Holocuast. Every war. Treatment of native Americans. British colonial rule. The crusades. Seriously men have been horrible since he beginning of time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It amazes me that anyone goes to a male ob gyn. Women are so naive.

I had a male OBGYN who was amazing. The female ones I've had were terrible. Like the one who accused me of spreading herpes (I didn't have herpes), and the one who called me on the phone to let me know I had a missed miscarriage.

Liar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This is EXACTLY why you NEVER
leave your loved one ALONE in a hospital!

You NEVER know WHAT they're doing to them.
Hospitals are NOT safe places.

Just saying the truth.
Buyer BEWARE.

100% agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:With all of the male hatred on DCUM, I feel very sorry for your sons, husbands, fathers, brothers, etc. Most men are not abusers.

Perhaps, but do you know about risk analysis, or cost/benefit based decisions? Those who are perpetrators of violence against women are out there in great numbers. It is safer for females to there for control whatever they can and decline male providers. "Male hatred" is an exaggeration but it is based on real experiences. Don't get all offended about facts. Would you let your daughter go to the USC medical clinic? You think he is unique? No. He is not unique. He just was finally turned in.

Be careful. I certainly wouldn't let my daughter see a male if at all possible. But they are very smart, smile, act proffessional, and count on you being unaware or trusting.

Female physician who has seen many years of awful, slightly sub-criminal behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With all of the male hatred on DCUM, I feel very sorry for your sons, husbands, fathers, brothers, etc. Most men are not abusers.

Perhaps, but do you know about risk analysis, or cost/benefit based decisions? Those who are perpetrators of violence against women are out there in great numbers. It is safer for females to there for control whatever they can and decline male providers. "Male hatred" is an exaggeration but it is based on real experiences. Don't get all offended about facts. Would you let your daughter go to the USC medical clinic? You think he is unique? No. He is not unique. He just was finally turned in.

Be careful. I certainly wouldn't let my daughter see a male if at all possible. But they are very smart, smile, act proffessional, and count on you being unaware or trusting.

Female physician who has seen many years of awful, slightly sub-criminal behavior.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/18/us/usc-gynecologist-george-tyndall-new-accusers/index.html

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-usc-settlement-proposal-20181019-story.html

[Anonymous]

There are two conversations going here:

1) sexual misconduct by care providers
https://www.acog.org/Clinical-Guidance-and-Publications/Committee-Opinions/Committee-on-Ethics/Sexual-Misconduct

2) ethical implications of invasive exams performed without patient's consent or awareness, because she is about to have surgery

Both are very bad. But different.

[Anonymous]

Unfoking believable. Outrageous. Are we living in a twilight zone? What kind of disrespectful evilness is this?! Taking advantage of unconscious patients? You better have a female chaperone in the room because there's no telling what one the creeps might do to you while you're unconscious? What.Is.This ??!??!

Good God, and we count on these animals to be the helping profession?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unfoking believable. Outrageous. Are we living in a twilight zone? What kind of disrespectful evilness is this?! Taking advantage of unconscious patients? You better have a female chaperone in the room because there's no telling what one the creeps might do to you while you're unconscious? What.Is.This ??!??!

Good God, and we count on these animals to be the helping profession?

Yup. Never trust any hospital as a safe place. Or a doctor's office, for that matter. You enter their space at great risk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here- just want to say I am a med student and read about this practice in a book written by a physician who went to college in early 70s. I thought this practice was over until I saw this article on meddit. I am OUTRAGED that this is even a thing and I hope female physicians can STAND UP to this. disgusting.

Hi OP! I am glad you are educating readers and taking it upon yourself to change this aspect of medical culture. As an RN, I have seen female attending surgical gyns oversee these exams on unaware, anesthetized patients. I was horrified, but didn't say anything at the time. No one said anything. It was part of being a patient in a teaching hospital, 20 years ago.

. You must be lying. Everyone on DCUM knows that it is only horrible men who would do such a thing!

Mostly true. But female attendings were trained by mostly males. Most males are horrible when unaccountable.

Most men? I feel really sorry for you that this is your view of humanity--and you are wrong. Most men are not horrible.

Yes they are. Slavery. Holocuast. Every war. Treatment of native Americans. British colonial rule. The crusades. Seriously men have been horrible since he beginning of time.

I pity any men/boys who have the misfortune to be in your life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are two conversations going here:

1) sexual misconduct by care providers
https://www.acog.org/Clinical-Guidance-and-Publications/Committee-Opinions/Committee-on-Ethics/Sexual-Misconduct

2) ethical implications of invasive exams performed without patient's consent or awareness, because she is about to have surgery

Both are very bad. But different.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have heard two different doctors that I know socially say that their job is to choose who lives and who dies. The were expressing the power they feel. If you knew them like I do, you wouldn't want either one of them making that call for you or your family. They are flawed.

They truly believe they're God. Fuk em.

+2

The ego doctors have is outrageous.

I have two doctors in my family - one’s a surgeon and the other’s a hospitalist - and they are the least empathetic, healing people in my family. They’re both hard-working, smart, and diligent, but neither is what I’d describe as being caring.

Same here. If patients only knew them in real life, they'd be shocked....and disappointed.

Likewise. I have a radiologist in my family. He is cruel, and basically disgusted with people. He is also useless for common sense advice regarding general health. He also knows where he stands in terms of his status among other doctors, and will be a real jerk to those in less high status specialities, such as family practice. Really bizarre. However, these people are scientists who are expected to diagnose and treat. Not provide "care". That comes from nurses and anicillary staff.

More evidence that western medicine could use a restructuring, to ensure that healing is the main objective.

But then what would happen to all the profits?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It amazes me that anyone goes to a male ob gyn. Women are so naive.

My male OB with 30 years of experience is incredible in terms of bedside manner, knowledge, respect from his peers, and skill. I understand wanting a female as I only initially chose him because he was close and took my insurance. In hindsight, he is the best doctor I have ever seen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 4th year med student (not OP). I have done pelvic exams on unconscious patients before gynecologic procedures. I thought they were consented for this as part of the procedure but maybe they were not. Even when I thought they were consented I wasn't super comfortable doing it to be completely honest. I did lots of pelvic exams on awake patients and felt fine about those but I didn't like doing it when they were under anesthesia. Also as someone said above, it is true that they pay fake patients (called standardized patients) for us to learn how to do our first pelvic exam. We do the same for the prostate exam.

OP here. Wondering if you can refuse? This literally makes me want to puke- it’s like being raped. What if there is damage to the women? This isn’t crazy as one med student really hurt a standardized patient by clamping on her cervix. I will literally drop out of med school if they make me do this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It amazes me that anyone goes to a male ob gyn. Women are so naive.

My male OB with 30 years of experience is incredible in terms of bedside manner, knowledge, respect from his peers, and skill. I understand wanting a female as I only initially chose him because he was close and took my insurance. In hindsight, he is the best doctor I have ever seen.

I chose my now long retired OB/GYN to deliver my kids because he was a solo practitioner with a very, very low C-section rate. Huge amount of experience including combat, where they often prefer OB/GYNs because they know how to deal with profuse bleeding.

These things matter more to me than the sex of the doctor.