Pelvic exams on unconscious women

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here- just want to say I am a med student and read about this practice in a book written by a physician who went to college in early 70s. I thought this practice was over until I saw this article on meddit. I am OUTRAGED that this is even a thing and I hope female physicians can STAND UP to this. disgusting.

Hi OP! I am glad you are educating readers and taking it upon yourself to change this aspect of medical culture. As an RN, I have seen female attending surgical gyns oversee these exams on unaware, anesthetized patients. I was horrified, but didn't say anything at the time. No one said anything. It was part of being a patient in a teaching hospital, 20 years ago.

. You must be lying. Everyone on DCUM knows that it is only horrible men who would do such a thing!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here- just want to say I am a med student and read about this practice in a book written by a physician who went to college in early 70s. I thought this practice was over until I saw this article on meddit. I am OUTRAGED that this is even a thing and I hope female physicians can STAND UP to this. disgusting.

Hi OP! I am glad you are educating readers and taking it upon yourself to change this aspect of medical culture. As an RN, I have seen female attending surgical gyns oversee these exams on unaware, anesthetized patients. I was horrified, but didn't say anything at the time. No one said anything. It was part of being a patient in a teaching hospital, 20 years ago.

. You must be lying. Everyone on DCUM knows that it is only horrible men who would do such a thing!

Mostly true. But female attendings were trained by mostly males. Most males are horrible when unaccountable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It amazes me that anyone goes to a male ob gyn. Women are so naive.

Agree.
Anyone helping me birth my baby,
needs to have actually birthed a baby!
Sorry.

Likewise, I assume you are okay with men only going to a male urologist...or would that be sexism?

Good luck finding a female urologist. Few and far between.

But there are more male gyn's than ever. Go figure.

[Anonymous]

A man in a white coat is still a man. I don't even like a male dentist, let alone a male ob gyn.

[Anonymous]

This article is pretty horrible.

However, the PPs on here bashing male nurses and all male doctors is immature and crappy. The way to institute change isn't by being sexist in return. It makes you sound ignorant and you lose the argument right off the bat.

signed - a female nurse who has worked with plenty of awesome male nurses and doctors who are good people.

[Anonymous]

Horrifying and completely outrageous. Thank you for posting.

[Anonymous]

I'm a 4th year med student (not OP). I have done pelvic exams on unconscious patients before gynecologic procedures. I thought they were consented for this as part of the procedure but maybe they were not. Even when I thought they were consented I wasn't super comfortable doing it to be completely honest. I did lots of pelvic exams on awake patients and felt fine about those but I didn't like doing it when they were under anesthesia. Also as someone said above, it is true that they pay fake patients (called standardized patients) for us to learn how to do our first pelvic exam. We do the same for the prostate exam.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It amazes me that anyone goes to a male ob gyn. Women are so naive.

I had a male OBGYN who was amazing. The female ones I've had were terrible. Like the one who accused me of spreading herpes (I didn't have herpes), and the one who called me on the phone to let me know I had a missed miscarriage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It amazes me that anyone goes to a male ob gyn. Women are so naive.

I had a male OBGYN who was amazing. The female ones I've had were terrible. Like the one who accused me of spreading herpes (I didn't have herpes), and the one who called me on the phone to let me know I had a missed miscarriage.

Sure. Name them, or you're fibbing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It amazes me that anyone goes to a male ob gyn. Women are so naive.

I had a male OBGYN who was amazing. The female ones I've had were terrible. Like the one who accused me of spreading herpes (I didn't have herpes), and the one who called me on the phone to let me know I had a missed miscarriage.

Cool story sister.

[Anonymous]

This is not a male vs female problem. Providers of both genders can be excellent, and also sometimes disappointing. However, in the name of being cautious, people can eliminate a potential (but perhaps not actual risk) by avoiding male providers.

The problem the OP is describing is invasive exams conducted on anesthetized, unaware patients. This is clearly ethically wrong.

[Anonymous]

Something creepy about males wanting to be OB/gynecologists these days.

We now have PLENTY of women physicians.
Thanks, guys. Your party is done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Something creepy about males wanting to be OB/gynecologists these days.

We now have PLENTY of women physicians.
Thanks, guys. Your party is done.

I've heard at Penn (and I assume other similar schools too I just know Penn Med best), they actively try to talk guys out of going into OBGYN. Not that they can stop anyone and if it's your life's dream you will pursue it, but if a male expresses an interest in OB and something else -- they push the something else. It isn't bc of the creep factor, it's more bc there ARE so many female attendings in OB and so many who are currently residents and fellows who are coming up thru the ranks to be the next gen of female attendings, that males just don't get good training as easily. Unless you are living in rural America that is serviced by one GYN private practice and one hospital, you have choices of who to see. In populated areas esp. near any major metro area, you can ALWAYS find a female GYN - even in a hospital situation. That and now women are more empowered to say -- no sorry I don't want a male student/resident in the room; and bc that resident is often being taught by a female attending, that attending tends to respect the patient rather than guilt her about it/ignore what she says etc. So at Penn they tell you if you're a guy who chooses OBGYN, fine but don't be shocked that your training is going slower than your female counterparts bc you will be kicked out of a lot of exams/procedures that female residents will get to do routinely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Haven’t read the article yet but not at all surprised.

Went to a new cardiologist recently - flirty and fratty at AGE 55 so it couldn’t even be chalked up to youth/lack of experience. Mentioned my relationship status - which wasn’t relevant to what was being discussed (wasn’t about support at home etc. Started a sentence with “since you have your shirt off . . . .” Uh I was in a gown not naked and I was only in a gown bc your nurse said it was needed for an accurate EKG. Honestly I was surprised he didn’t cop a feel - which he didn’t, the exam was respectful. And the bar has gotten so low that I find myself thinking - he’s REALLY credentialed/experienced, top hospital, he didn’t cop a feel — is the frat boy attitude SUCH a big deal? Jury is still out on that one. So if this is how 55 yr olds are behaving w a fully awake patient, I can imagine 23 yr old male med students.

RN here -- there are definitely cardiologists out there like this. It is a field that attracts frat boy types - albeit super smart ones and they get away with it bc they are super smart, often the best ivy/UCSF/Stanford/Hopkins kind of credentials. Reading your description, I immediately thought did you see 1-2 of the ones I work with? At least for the guys I work with, they aren't inappropriate physically but it's like they don't care that being flirty with a young woman sitting there in a gown is not flattering to her; she's not there to ask you out on a date!? That being said there are many that ARE not like this -- very respectful, humble, conscious of the fact that a woman has to lay there with breasts out in front of a stranger. Pls find one of the latter -- if you had to see this guy in a pinch, that's fine; at least you got good care but you don't need to put up with this for the long haul. Sadly not nearly enough women in this field as opposed to in GYN.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here- just want to say I am a med student and read about this practice in a book written by a physician who went to college in early 70s. I thought this practice was over until I saw this article on meddit. I am OUTRAGED that this is even a thing and I hope female physicians can STAND UP to this. disgusting.

Hi OP! I am glad you are educating readers and taking it upon yourself to change this aspect of medical culture. As an RN, I have seen female attending surgical gyns oversee these exams on unaware, anesthetized patients. I was horrified, but didn't say anything at the time. No one said anything. It was part of being a patient in a teaching hospital, 20 years ago.

. You must be lying. Everyone on DCUM knows that it is only horrible men who would do such a thing!

Mostly true. But female attendings were trained by mostly males. Most males are horrible when unaccountable.

Most men? I feel really sorry for you that this is your view of humanity--and you are wrong. Most men are not horrible.