POC and resenting mixed-race relationships

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a white man who only dates WOC. I find that women of my woman's race tend to be envious of her and very friendly to me.

Very interesting. What are the signs they show that indicate they're envious of your woman?

I have a hard time describing the envious looks, but sometimes there are comments. I'm a 6'5" Scandinavian blonde.

Interesting that you think “tall and blond” (no “e” on “blond” when describing a man) is synonymous with attractive. I am confident the envy is made up in your head based on how impressed you are with features of yours that are no guarantee of attractiveness.

+1 This guy seems similar to the one from upthread who would go on rants about how repulsive white women are to his non-white date. The level of weirdness in pointing out that he "only dates WOC" and cataloging how other WOC he meets are jealous of his date and hitting on him ... something's off in this guy's mindset.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a white man who only dates WOC. I find that women of my woman's race tend to be envious of her and very friendly to me.

Very interesting. What are the signs they show that indicate they're envious of your woman?

I have a hard time describing the envious looks, but sometimes there are comments. I'm a 6'5" Scandinavian blonde.

Interesting that you think “tall and blond” (no “e” on “blond” when describing a man) is synonymous with attractive. I am confident the envy is made up in your head based on how impressed you are with features of yours that are no guarantee of attractiveness.

+1 This guy seems similar to the one from upthread who would go on rants about how repulsive white women are to his non-white date. The level of weirdness in pointing out that he "only dates WOC" and cataloging how other WOC he meets are jealous of his date and hitting on him ... something's off in this guy's mindset.

Yep and the stares are probably not "envious." They are probably "ew, get away from me" since he strikes me as a creeper... or just curiosity if he is going overseas to a country where people are short. Any tall person gets looks overseas in countries like Vietnam just by virtue of being tall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is it that when a brown girl marries a white guy, other brown people get offended?

Why is it that when a black man marries a white girl, other black people are angry?

What is it about marrying white that offends other POC?

So I am black woman married to a white man and I was shocked by how nasty some black men were about that. I went to a predominately white high school and ALL of the few black boys that also attended my school openly said they only dated white girls. (Although to be fair one of them is married to a very beautiful, very accomplished black woman...not sure what she sees in him). I think black women frequently get upset because some black men will really openly say that they think that white women are superior for whatever stereotyped reason. I personally think that everyone should just marry whoever they want but you must have some self-hatred reasons if you dislike all women or men that are the same race that you are.

Also, although I am not South Asian, I think it is a little weird and problematic that every show or movie that is successful lately has an South Asian person in a relationship with a white person. Examples being both seasons of Master of None, the Big Sick, and every love interest on the Mindy Project.

Agree with the bolded. I'm white, married to a black man. I dated men of all races when I was single, and met two different black men who proudly announced they only dated white women because black women are all [stupid stereotypes here], ON OUR FIRST DATE. I think they meant it to be a compliment to me (or some kind of coded reassurance? unclear) but both were pretty surprised when I walked out on the date. No one should be constrained in who they can date based on race, but if you have a blanket ban on a certain race (I don't care which one, it doesn't have to be a self-hatred issue) then I assume you're not someone my values line up with very well.

As for the South Asian/white thing -- I felt bad for Kumail Nanjiani because his movie was autobiographical and he got so much flack for reinforcing the stereotype that was started with Mindy & Master of None. But I do understand why people are upset with the trend.

South Asian here. This is unfortunate, but I think it reflects some reality. I know quite a few South Asians who only prefer white people. I have a few cousins who outright say they aren't attracted to Indian women. It's sad, but I don't think they are the majority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is married to a woman whose mother is black and her father is Indian. They haven't experienced anything negative since their marriage, They live in Oklahoma. She also has a neurological disorder that affects the muscles on one side of her face, causing it to droop and causing difficulties with her speech. No one makes fun of her. She's truly a beautiful person, inside and out, and I am so blessed to be able to call her my daughter! My son is very protective over her, even to the point that he put a security system in their home although they live a block from the PD and her stepdad is a law enforcement officer there. The love between them is beautiful to see! I told him that I believe that she was the reason that he moved to Oklahoma. They would never have met otherwise, and I couldn't imagine life without her!

And how lucky for her to have you as a MIL!

Yes. She's hit the jackpot with a mother in law like you! Long may your family live and prosper!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a POC (and thus will defer to POC on this if they disagree with me), but here's what I've gleaned from reading/listening/learning.

One issue is the legacy of racism and what it means to succeed, in that for a long time so much of success for a POC is the extent to which they are accepted by and integrated into white society. In the eyes of some POC, a POC (especially an affluent/successful POC) marrying a white person can be seen as perpetuating this notion that the goal of POC is to integrate into white society (via marriage) rather than succeed in their own skin.

Another issue is what it does to communities, which still tend to be highly segregated by race. When a POC marries a white person, if they are successful/affluent enough to do so, they tend to move to a whiter/more affluent community rather than staying in a less affluent community with a higher concentration of POC (this happens with POC couples as well, but at a lesser rate than white/POC couples). One effect of this is to remove from the community exactly the kind of people who would be in the best position to invest (not just financially but also with time/effort) in the community and help improve it. Another is that the kinds of people you'd like to have in your community as role models for kids tend not to stick around, and it's a lot harder for young kids trying to find their way out of a cycle of poverty to find an example they know personally of someone who looks like them who has been successful, who's broken the cycle, and who might be able to guide them a bit as they grow up.

Also, the rates of mixed-race marriages tends not to be balanced across the genders. Black men are more likely to marry white women than black women are to marry white men; it's the reverse for hispanic and asian communities. Whatever the reason for that (and there are plenty of factors we could discuss) the end result is that, for instance, black women tend to have a harder time finding a husband/long-term partner, especially one who will contribute positively to a family (both financially and emotionally), when a disproportionate number of black men (especially black men who are more likely to be financially stable and involved partners/parents) are marrying white women, and there's not a commensurate group of white men who would provide the same looking to marry black women.

Black woman here. This an excellent analysis of things from the POC side. I would add that an explanation a black male friend of mine gave me for why black men are hostile to white men dating black women: A lot of BM feel that the love and support of BW is one of the few things they can rely on and take for granted. BW are usually hostile to dating WM as a matter of strongly-held racial loyalty to BM and a lot of BM like it that way. A lot of BM also feel threatened by WM, whom BM perceive as already having “everything.” So, seeing a BW with a WM actives a lot of envy, resentment, and fear on the part of BM. If BM have to compete with WM for BM, they do not feel they will succeed in that struggle.

This is so true. BM would rather see another BW single and unmarried than with a WM.

Black man, here. In my nearly 50 years I've never encountered a black man who appeared hostile toward, resentful, or envious of black women with white men. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but these theories strike me as way off the mark and out of touch. Fact is, interracial relationships are a pretty popular discussion topic among black people, and harboring disdain toward black women for dating a white man, or black men feeling threatened by white men is not a part of that dialogue. I can say with a hefty degree of confidence that black men, in general, have zero fear of white men - in any capacity.

Sorry, buddy, you’re not fooling anyone. I am an Asian woman and even I have seen black men staring angrily, muttering, pointing, and even outright confronting black women with white men. No offense, but I don’t believe for a second you haven’t ever seen this.

I am white and have dated women of all the major ethnic backgrounds. Black men were an absolute nuisance when I had a black girlfriend. If we were in close proximity to a sketchy downtown area, you would hear some very ignorant comments. But if we were in the burbs or a classier area, no issues whatsoever. And never had an issue when dating women of other races.

As an AA male (but not your "buddy), I believe I'm in the best position to tell you how I and many of us feel about black women involved in interracial relationships. Say what you like, but it simply is not a major issue for us. I am trying not to project my thoughts to all black males, because I think that would be disingenuous. But I've always been in very close contact with a wide range of black males from various backgrounds - doctors to convicted felons. We have 99 problems, but this issue ain't one.

Ok dude. You have a bunch of AA women on here who could also know a lot of black men from different walks of life (and *gasp* may have a dad or a brother who is a black male) describing what they have ACTUALLY experienced yet you are mansplaining how that doesn’t happen?

I did not say it "doesn't happen". I said it's not a prominent issue that most black men deal with. I'm not speaking against the "bunch" of black women you say are on here - I have no reason to doubt their experiences - I was simply stating that I do not believe there is a there, there. It's not. Period. Dude.

Of course it’s not an issue that most black men deal with because most black men are not black women in interracial relationships. But we get it you’re totally unbothered by white men and interracial relationships. Cool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a POC (and thus will defer to POC on this if they disagree with me), but here's what I've gleaned from reading/listening/learning.

One issue is the legacy of racism and what it means to succeed, in that for a long time so much of success for a POC is the extent to which they are accepted by and integrated into white society. In the eyes of some POC, a POC (especially an affluent/successful POC) marrying a white person can be seen as perpetuating this notion that the goal of POC is to integrate into white society (via marriage) rather than succeed in their own skin.

Another issue is what it does to communities, which still tend to be highly segregated by race. When a POC marries a white person, if they are successful/affluent enough to do so, they tend to move to a whiter/more affluent community rather than staying in a less affluent community with a higher concentration of POC (this happens with POC couples as well, but at a lesser rate than white/POC couples). One effect of this is to remove from the community exactly the kind of people who would be in the best position to invest (not just financially but also with time/effort) in the community and help improve it. Another is that the kinds of people you'd like to have in your community as role models for kids tend not to stick around, and it's a lot harder for young kids trying to find their way out of a cycle of poverty to find an example they know personally of someone who looks like them who has been successful, who's broken the cycle, and who might be able to guide them a bit as they grow up.

Also, the rates of mixed-race marriages tends not to be balanced across the genders. Black men are more likely to marry white women than black women are to marry white men; it's the reverse for hispanic and asian communities. Whatever the reason for that (and there are plenty of factors we could discuss) the end result is that, for instance, black women tend to have a harder time finding a husband/long-term partner, especially one who will contribute positively to a family (both financially and emotionally), when a disproportionate number of black men (especially black men who are more likely to be financially stable and involved partners/parents) are marrying white women, and there's not a commensurate group of white men who would provide the same looking to marry black women.

Black woman here. This an excellent analysis of things from the POC side. I would add that an explanation a black male friend of mine gave me for why black men are hostile to white men dating black women: A lot of BM feel that the love and support of BW is one of the few things they can rely on and take for granted. BW are usually hostile to dating WM as a matter of strongly-held racial loyalty to BM and a lot of BM like it that way. A lot of BM also feel threatened by WM, whom BM perceive as already having “everything.” So, seeing a BW with a WM actives a lot of envy, resentment, and fear on the part of BM. If BM have to compete with WM for BM, they do not feel they will succeed in that struggle.

This is so true. BM would rather see another BW single and unmarried than with a WM.

Black man, here. In my nearly 50 years I've never encountered a black man who appeared hostile toward, resentful, or envious of black women with white men. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but these theories strike me as way off the mark and out of touch. Fact is, interracial relationships are a pretty popular discussion topic among black people, and harboring disdain toward black women for dating a white man, or black men feeling threatened by white men is not a part of that dialogue. I can say with a hefty degree of confidence that black men, in general, have zero fear of white men - in any capacity.

Sorry, buddy, you’re not fooling anyone. I am an Asian woman and even I have seen black men staring angrily, muttering, pointing, and even outright confronting black women with white men. No offense, but I don’t believe for a second you haven’t ever seen this.

I am white and have dated women of all the major ethnic backgrounds. Black men were an absolute nuisance when I had a black girlfriend. If we were in close proximity to a sketchy downtown area, you would hear some very ignorant comments. But if we were in the burbs or a classier area, no issues whatsoever. And never had an issue when dating women of other races.

As an AA male (but not your "buddy), I believe I'm in the best position to tell you how I and many of us feel about black women involved in interracial relationships. Say what you like, but it simply is not a major issue for us. I am trying not to project my thoughts to all black males, because I think that would be disingenuous. But I've always been in very close contact with a wide range of black males from various backgrounds - doctors to convicted felons. We have 99 problems, but this issue ain't one.

Ok dude. You have a bunch of AA women on here who could also know a lot of black men from different walks of life (and *gasp* may have a dad or a brother who is a black male) describing what they have ACTUALLY experienced yet you are mansplaining how that doesn’t happen?

I did not say it "doesn't happen". I said it's not a prominent issue that most black men deal with. I'm not speaking against the "bunch" of black women you say are on here - I have no reason to doubt their experiences - I was simply stating that I do not believe there is a there, there. It's not. Period. Dude.

Of course it’s not an issue that most black men deal with because most black men are not black women in interracial relationships. But we get it you’re totally unbothered by white men and interracial relationships. Cool.

This part of the discussion is centered on black men's reaction to black women involved in interracial relationships, particularly with white men. That's the issue being addressed and of which I am commenting. Not sure why/where that's confusing for you.

FWIW, I'm a black man married to a white woman for nearly 20 years. I'm a big cheerleader for IR. But I don't get the feeling that DCUM has a bunch of black males weighing in on these kinds of discussions - and I think the examples provided up-thread don't quite square with reality. I'm trying to speak to those perspectives, based on my experiences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a POC (and thus will defer to POC on this if they disagree with me), but here's what I've gleaned from reading/listening/learning.

One issue is the legacy of racism and what it means to succeed, in that for a long time so much of success for a POC is the extent to which they are accepted by and integrated into white society. In the eyes of some POC, a POC (especially an affluent/successful POC) marrying a white person can be seen as perpetuating this notion that the goal of POC is to integrate into white society (via marriage) rather than succeed in their own skin.

Another issue is what it does to communities, which still tend to be highly segregated by race. When a POC marries a white person, if they are successful/affluent enough to do so, they tend to move to a whiter/more affluent community rather than staying in a less affluent community with a higher concentration of POC (this happens with POC couples as well, but at a lesser rate than white/POC couples). One effect of this is to remove from the community exactly the kind of people who would be in the best position to invest (not just financially but also with time/effort) in the community and help improve it. Another is that the kinds of people you'd like to have in your community as role models for kids tend not to stick around, and it's a lot harder for young kids trying to find their way out of a cycle of poverty to find an example they know personally of someone who looks like them who has been successful, who's broken the cycle, and who might be able to guide them a bit as they grow up.

Also, the rates of mixed-race marriages tends not to be balanced across the genders. Black men are more likely to marry white women than black women are to marry white men; it's the reverse for hispanic and asian communities. Whatever the reason for that (and there are plenty of factors we could discuss) the end result is that, for instance, black women tend to have a harder time finding a husband/long-term partner, especially one who will contribute positively to a family (both financially and emotionally), when a disproportionate number of black men (especially black men who are more likely to be financially stable and involved partners/parents) are marrying white women, and there's not a commensurate group of white men who would provide the same looking to marry black women.

Black woman here. This an excellent analysis of things from the POC side. I would add that an explanation a black male friend of mine gave me for why black men are hostile to white men dating black women: A lot of BM feel that the love and support of BW is one of the few things they can rely on and take for granted. BW are usually hostile to dating WM as a matter of strongly-held racial loyalty to BM and a lot of BM like it that way. A lot of BM also feel threatened by WM, whom BM perceive as already having “everything.” So, seeing a BW with a WM actives a lot of envy, resentment, and fear on the part of BM. If BM have to compete with WM for BM, they do not feel they will succeed in that struggle.

This is so true. BM would rather see another BW single and unmarried than with a WM.

Black man, here. In my nearly 50 years I've never encountered a black man who appeared hostile toward, resentful, or envious of black women with white men. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but these theories strike me as way off the mark and out of touch. Fact is, interracial relationships are a pretty popular discussion topic among black people, and harboring disdain toward black women for dating a white man, or black men feeling threatened by white men is not a part of that dialogue. I can say with a hefty degree of confidence that black men, in general, have zero fear of white men - in any capacity.

Sorry, buddy, you’re not fooling anyone. I am an Asian woman and even I have seen black men staring angrily, muttering, pointing, and even outright confronting black women with white men. No offense, but I don’t believe for a second you haven’t ever seen this.

I am white and have dated women of all the major ethnic backgrounds. Black men were an absolute nuisance when I had a black girlfriend. If we were in close proximity to a sketchy downtown area, you would hear some very ignorant comments. But if we were in the burbs or a classier area, no issues whatsoever. And never had an issue when dating women of other races.

As an AA male (but not your "buddy), I believe I'm in the best position to tell you how I and many of us feel about black women involved in interracial relationships. Say what you like, but it simply is not a major issue for us. I am trying not to project my thoughts to all black males, because I think that would be disingenuous. But I've always been in very close contact with a wide range of black males from various backgrounds - doctors to convicted felons. We have 99 problems, but this issue ain't one.

Ok dude. You have a bunch of AA women on here who could also know a lot of black men from different walks of life (and *gasp* may have a dad or a brother who is a black male) describing what they have ACTUALLY experienced yet you are mansplaining how that doesn’t happen?

I did not say it "doesn't happen". I said it's not a prominent issue that most black men deal with. I'm not speaking against the "bunch" of black women you say are on here - I have no reason to doubt their experiences - I was simply stating that I do not believe there is a there, there. It's not. Period. Dude.

Of course it’s not an issue that most black men deal with because most black men are not black women in interracial relationships. But we get it you’re totally unbothered by white men and interracial relationships. Cool.

This part of the discussion is centered on black men's reaction to black women involved in interracial relationships, particularly with white men. That's the issue being addressed and of which I am commenting. Not sure why/where that's confusing for you.

FWIW, I'm a black man married to a white woman for nearly 20 years. I'm a big cheerleader for IR. But I don't get the feeling that DCUM has a bunch of black males weighing in on these kinds of discussions - and I think the examples provided up-thread don't quite square with reality. I'm trying to speak to those perspectives, based on my experiences.

Exactly, they are your perspectives. As an African American woman, I was surprised to hear negative comments from a twenty-something family member (who can pass for white) about my white partner. So, yes, the sentiment is very true and much more than anecdotal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a POC (and thus will defer to POC on this if they disagree with me), but here's what I've gleaned from reading/listening/learning.

One issue is the legacy of racism and what it means to succeed, in that for a long time so much of success for a POC is the extent to which they are accepted by and integrated into white society. In the eyes of some POC, a POC (especially an affluent/successful POC) marrying a white person can be seen as perpetuating this notion that the goal of POC is to integrate into white society (via marriage) rather than succeed in their own skin.

Another issue is what it does to communities, which still tend to be highly segregated by race. When a POC marries a white person, if they are successful/affluent enough to do so, they tend to move to a whiter/more affluent community rather than staying in a less affluent community with a higher concentration of POC (this happens with POC couples as well, but at a lesser rate than white/POC couples). One effect of this is to remove from the community exactly the kind of people who would be in the best position to invest (not just financially but also with time/effort) in the community and help improve it. Another is that the kinds of people you'd like to have in your community as role models for kids tend not to stick around, and it's a lot harder for young kids trying to find their way out of a cycle of poverty to find an example they know personally of someone who looks like them who has been successful, who's broken the cycle, and who might be able to guide them a bit as they grow up.

Also, the rates of mixed-race marriages tends not to be balanced across the genders. Black men are more likely to marry white women than black women are to marry white men; it's the reverse for hispanic and asian communities. Whatever the reason for that (and there are plenty of factors we could discuss) the end result is that, for instance, black women tend to have a harder time finding a husband/long-term partner, especially one who will contribute positively to a family (both financially and emotionally), when a disproportionate number of black men (especially black men who are more likely to be financially stable and involved partners/parents) are marrying white women, and there's not a commensurate group of white men who would provide the same looking to marry black women.

Black woman here. This an excellent analysis of things from the POC side. I would add that an explanation a black male friend of mine gave me for why black men are hostile to white men dating black women: A lot of BM feel that the love and support of BW is one of the few things they can rely on and take for granted. BW are usually hostile to dating WM as a matter of strongly-held racial loyalty to BM and a lot of BM like it that way. A lot of BM also feel threatened by WM, whom BM perceive as already having “everything.” So, seeing a BW with a WM actives a lot of envy, resentment, and fear on the part of BM. If BM have to compete with WM for BM, they do not feel they will succeed in that struggle.

This is so true. BM would rather see another BW single and unmarried than with a WM.

Black man, here. In my nearly 50 years I've never encountered a black man who appeared hostile toward, resentful, or envious of black women with white men. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but these theories strike me as way off the mark and out of touch. Fact is, interracial relationships are a pretty popular discussion topic among black people, and harboring disdain toward black women for dating a white man, or black men feeling threatened by white men is not a part of that dialogue. I can say with a hefty degree of confidence that black men, in general, have zero fear of white men - in any capacity.

Sorry, buddy, you’re not fooling anyone. I am an Asian woman and even I have seen black men staring angrily, muttering, pointing, and even outright confronting black women with white men. No offense, but I don’t believe for a second you haven’t ever seen this.

I am white and have dated women of all the major ethnic backgrounds. Black men were an absolute nuisance when I had a black girlfriend. If we were in close proximity to a sketchy downtown area, you would hear some very ignorant comments. But if we were in the burbs or a classier area, no issues whatsoever. And never had an issue when dating women of other races.

As an AA male (but not your "buddy), I believe I'm in the best position to tell you how I and many of us feel about black women involved in interracial relationships. Say what you like, but it simply is not a major issue for us. I am trying not to project my thoughts to all black males, because I think that would be disingenuous. But I've always been in very close contact with a wide range of black males from various backgrounds - doctors to convicted felons. We have 99 problems, but this issue ain't one.

Ok dude. You have a bunch of AA women on here who could also know a lot of black men from different walks of life (and *gasp* may have a dad or a brother who is a black male) describing what they have ACTUALLY experienced yet you are mansplaining how that doesn’t happen?

I did not say it "doesn't happen". I said it's not a prominent issue that most black men deal with. I'm not speaking against the "bunch" of black women you say are on here - I have no reason to doubt their experiences - I was simply stating that I do not believe there is a there, there. It's not. Period. Dude.

Of course it’s not an issue that most black men deal with because most black men are not black women in interracial relationships. But we get it you’re totally unbothered by white men and interracial relationships. Cool.

This part of the discussion is centered on black men's reaction to black women involved in interracial relationships, particularly with white men. That's the issue being addressed and of which I am commenting. Not sure why/where that's confusing for you.

FWIW, I'm a black man married to a white woman for nearly 20 years. I'm a big cheerleader for IR. But I don't get the feeling that DCUM has a bunch of black males weighing in on these kinds of discussions - and I think the examples provided up-thread don't quite square with reality. I'm trying to speak to those perspectives, based on my experiences.

Exactly, they are your perspectives. As an African American woman, I was surprised to hear negative comments from a twenty-something family member (who can pass for white) about my white partner. So, yes, the sentiment is very true and much more than anecdotal.

Ok, I've tried to frame my feedback from my perspective. Maybe that didn't come across so well. Sorry.

I wish you and your partner the best.

[Anonymous]

As Donna Summer once sang, "Turn my brown body white."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a POC (and thus will defer to POC on this if they disagree with me), but here's what I've gleaned from reading/listening/learning.

One issue is the legacy of racism and what it means to succeed, in that for a long time so much of success for a POC is the extent to which they are accepted by and integrated into white society. In the eyes of some POC, a POC (especially an affluent/successful POC) marrying a white person can be seen as perpetuating this notion that the goal of POC is to integrate into white society (via marriage) rather than succeed in their own skin.

Another issue is what it does to communities, which still tend to be highly segregated by race. When a POC marries a white person, if they are successful/affluent enough to do so, they tend to move to a whiter/more affluent community rather than staying in a less affluent community with a higher concentration of POC (this happens with POC couples as well, but at a lesser rate than white/POC couples). One effect of this is to remove from the community exactly the kind of people who would be in the best position to invest (not just financially but also with time/effort) in the community and help improve it. Another is that the kinds of people you'd like to have in your community as role models for kids tend not to stick around, and it's a lot harder for young kids trying to find their way out of a cycle of poverty to find an example they know personally of someone who looks like them who has been successful, who's broken the cycle, and who might be able to guide them a bit as they grow up.

Also, the rates of mixed-race marriages tends not to be balanced across the genders. Black men are more likely to marry white women than black women are to marry white men; it's the reverse for hispanic and asian communities. Whatever the reason for that (and there are plenty of factors we could discuss) the end result is that, for instance, black women tend to have a harder time finding a husband/long-term partner, especially one who will contribute positively to a family (both financially and emotionally), when a disproportionate number of black men (especially black men who are more likely to be financially stable and involved partners/parents) are marrying white women, and there's not a commensurate group of white men who would provide the same looking to marry black women.

Black woman here. This an excellent analysis of things from the POC side. I would add that an explanation a black male friend of mine gave me for why black men are hostile to white men dating black women: A lot of BM feel that the love and support of BW is one of the few things they can rely on and take for granted. BW are usually hostile to dating WM as a matter of strongly-held racial loyalty to BM and a lot of BM like it that way. A lot of BM also feel threatened by WM, whom BM perceive as already having “everything.” So, seeing a BW with a WM actives a lot of envy, resentment, and fear on the part of BM. If BM have to compete with WM for BM, they do not feel they will succeed in that struggle.

This is so true. BM would rather see another BW single and unmarried than with a WM.

Black man, here. In my nearly 50 years I've never encountered a black man who appeared hostile toward, resentful, or envious of black women with white men. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but these theories strike me as way off the mark and out of touch. Fact is, interracial relationships are a pretty popular discussion topic among black people, and harboring disdain toward black women for dating a white man, or black men feeling threatened by white men is not a part of that dialogue. I can say with a hefty degree of confidence that black men, in general, have zero fear of white men - in any capacity.

Sorry, buddy, you’re not fooling anyone. I am an Asian woman and even I have seen black men staring angrily, muttering, pointing, and even outright confronting black women with white men. No offense, but I don’t believe for a second you haven’t ever seen this.

I am white and have dated women of all the major ethnic backgrounds. Black men were an absolute nuisance when I had a black girlfriend. If we were in close proximity to a sketchy downtown area, you would hear some very ignorant comments. But if we were in the burbs or a classier area, no issues whatsoever. And never had an issue when dating women of other races.

As an AA male (but not your "buddy), I believe I'm in the best position to tell you how I and many of us feel about black women involved in interracial relationships. Say what you like, but it simply is not a major issue for us. I am trying not to project my thoughts to all black males, because I think that would be disingenuous. But I've always been in very close contact with a wide range of black males from various backgrounds - doctors to convicted felons. We have 99 problems, but this issue ain't one.

Ok dude. You have a bunch of AA women on here who could also know a lot of black men from different walks of life (and *gasp* may have a dad or a brother who is a black male) describing what they have ACTUALLY experienced yet you are mansplaining how that doesn’t happen?

I did not say it "doesn't happen". I said it's not a prominent issue that most black men deal with. I'm not speaking against the "bunch" of black women you say are on here - I have no reason to doubt their experiences - I was simply stating that I do not believe there is a there, there. It's not. Period. Dude.

Don't bother. There is a certain subset of black women that ant o believe they are perpetually victimized by black men. That black men don't an to date them and they were forced to date hite men. My sisters played this tune when they had chose to marry hite men. They shut up about it hen I married a successful black man. Some people do exprience judgment and racism, ut I believe ea far larger amount just like drama like my sisters.

[Anonymous]

I’m a black women who exclusively dates black men and am a wonderful relationship with on currently. I would never occur to me to be nasty to other couples, period.

I had a friend who was dating a white woman and he told me that she felt that I didn’t like her. Was surprising to me, but I went out of my way to be kind to her after that because clearly she was a sensitive person. Other than that, can’t think of any time that an IR relationship impacted my life in anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a POC (and thus will defer to POC on this if they disagree with me), but here's what I've gleaned from reading/listening/learning.

One issue is the legacy of racism and what it means to succeed, in that for a long time so much of success for a POC is the extent to which they are accepted by and integrated into white society. In the eyes of some POC, a POC (especially an affluent/successful POC) marrying a white person can be seen as perpetuating this notion that the goal of POC is to integrate into white society (via marriage) rather than succeed in their own skin.

Another issue is what it does to communities, which still tend to be highly segregated by race. When a POC marries a white person, if they are successful/affluent enough to do so, they tend to move to a whiter/more affluent community rather than staying in a less affluent community with a higher concentration of POC (this happens with POC couples as well, but at a lesser rate than white/POC couples). One effect of this is to remove from the community exactly the kind of people who would be in the best position to invest (not just financially but also with time/effort) in the community and help improve it. Another is that the kinds of people you'd like to have in your community as role models for kids tend not to stick around, and it's a lot harder for young kids trying to find their way out of a cycle of poverty to find an example they know personally of someone who looks like them who has been successful, who's broken the cycle, and who might be able to guide them a bit as they grow up.

Also, the rates of mixed-race marriages tends not to be balanced across the genders. Black men are more likely to marry white women than black women are to marry white men; it's the reverse for hispanic and asian communities. Whatever the reason for that (and there are plenty of factors we could discuss) the end result is that, for instance, black women tend to have a harder time finding a husband/long-term partner, especially one who will contribute positively to a family (both financially and emotionally), when a disproportionate number of black men (especially black men who are more likely to be financially stable and involved partners/parents) are marrying white women, and there's not a commensurate group of white men who would provide the same looking to marry black women.

Black woman here. This an excellent analysis of things from the POC side. I would add that an explanation a black male friend of mine gave me for why black men are hostile to white men dating black women: A lot of BM feel that the love and support of BW is one of the few things they can rely on and take for granted. BW are usually hostile to dating WM as a matter of strongly-held racial loyalty to BM and a lot of BM like it that way. A lot of BM also feel threatened by WM, whom BM perceive as already having “everything.” So, seeing a BW with a WM actives a lot of envy, resentment, and fear on the part of BM. If BM have to compete with WM for BM, they do not feel they will succeed in that struggle.

This is so true. BM would rather see another BW single and unmarried than with a WM.

Black man, here. In my nearly 50 years I've never encountered a black man who appeared hostile toward, resentful, or envious of black women with white men. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but these theories strike me as way off the mark and out of touch. Fact is, interracial relationships are a pretty popular discussion topic among black people, and harboring disdain toward black women for dating a white man, or black men feeling threatened by white men is not a part of that dialogue. I can say with a hefty degree of confidence that black men, in general, have zero fear of white men - in any capacity.

Sorry, buddy, you’re not fooling anyone. I am an Asian woman and even I have seen black men staring angrily, muttering, pointing, and even outright confronting black women with white men. No offense, but I don’t believe for a second you haven’t ever seen this.

I am white and have dated women of all the major ethnic backgrounds. Black men were an absolute nuisance when I had a black girlfriend. If we were in close proximity to a sketchy downtown area, you would hear some very ignorant comments. But if we were in the burbs or a classier area, no issues whatsoever. And never had an issue when dating women of other races.

As an AA male (but not your "buddy), I believe I'm in the best position to tell you how I and many of us feel about black women involved in interracial relationships. Say what you like, but it simply is not a major issue for us. I am trying not to project my thoughts to all black males, because I think that would be disingenuous. But I've always been in very close contact with a wide range of black males from various backgrounds - doctors to convicted felons. We have 99 problems, but this issue ain't one.

Ok dude. You have a bunch of AA women on here who could also know a lot of black men from different walks of life (and *gasp* may have a dad or a brother who is a black male) describing what they have ACTUALLY experienced yet you are mansplaining how that doesn’t happen?

I did not say it "doesn't happen". I said it's not a prominent issue that most black men deal with. I'm not speaking against the "bunch" of black women you say are on here - I have no reason to doubt their experiences - I was simply stating that I do not believe there is a there, there. It's not. Period. Dude.

Don't bother. There is a certain subset of black women that ant o believe they are perpetually victimized by black men. That black men don't an to date them and they were forced to date hite men. My sisters played this tune when they had chose to marry hite men. They shut up about it hen I married a successful black man. Some people do exprience judgment and racism, ut I believe ea far larger amount just like drama like my sisters.

You are wayyy oversimplifying. It is literally a fact that there are not enough college educated black men for every college educated black women. That doesn’t mean that you have to date white men but that does mean that for a lot of women, if they want to be with someone with the same credentials, they do have to date non-black men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a POC (and thus will defer to POC on this if they disagree with me), but here's what I've gleaned from reading/listening/learning.

One issue is the legacy of racism and what it means to succeed, in that for a long time so much of success for a POC is the extent to which they are accepted by and integrated into white society. In the eyes of some POC, a POC (especially an affluent/successful POC) marrying a white person can be seen as perpetuating this notion that the goal of POC is to integrate into white society (via marriage) rather than succeed in their own skin.

Another issue is what it does to communities, which still tend to be highly segregated by race. When a POC marries a white person, if they are successful/affluent enough to do so, they tend to move to a whiter/more affluent community rather than staying in a less affluent community with a higher concentration of POC (this happens with POC couples as well, but at a lesser rate than white/POC couples). One effect of this is to remove from the community exactly the kind of people who would be in the best position to invest (not just financially but also with time/effort) in the community and help improve it. Another is that the kinds of people you'd like to have in your community as role models for kids tend not to stick around, and it's a lot harder for young kids trying to find their way out of a cycle of poverty to find an example they know personally of someone who looks like them who has been successful, who's broken the cycle, and who might be able to guide them a bit as they grow up.

Also, the rates of mixed-race marriages tends not to be balanced across the genders. Black men are more likely to marry white women than black women are to marry white men; it's the reverse for hispanic and asian communities. Whatever the reason for that (and there are plenty of factors we could discuss) the end result is that, for instance, black women tend to have a harder time finding a husband/long-term partner, especially one who will contribute positively to a family (both financially and emotionally), when a disproportionate number of black men (especially black men who are more likely to be financially stable and involved partners/parents) are marrying white women, and there's not a commensurate group of white men who would provide the same looking to marry black women.

Black woman here. This an excellent analysis of things from the POC side. I would add that an explanation a black male friend of mine gave me for why black men are hostile to white men dating black women: A lot of BM feel that the love and support of BW is one of the few things they can rely on and take for granted. BW are usually hostile to dating WM as a matter of strongly-held racial loyalty to BM and a lot of BM like it that way. A lot of BM also feel threatened by WM, whom BM perceive as already having “everything.” So, seeing a BW with a WM actives a lot of envy, resentment, and fear on the part of BM. If BM have to compete with WM for BM, they do not feel they will succeed in that struggle.

This is so true. BM would rather see another BW single and unmarried than with a WM.

Black man, here. In my nearly 50 years I've never encountered a black man who appeared hostile toward, resentful, or envious of black women with white men. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but these theories strike me as way off the mark and out of touch. Fact is, interracial relationships are a pretty popular discussion topic among black people, and harboring disdain toward black women for dating a white man, or black men feeling threatened by white men is not a part of that dialogue. I can say with a hefty degree of confidence that black men, in general, have zero fear of white men - in any capacity.

Sorry, buddy, you’re not fooling anyone. I am an Asian woman and even I have seen black men staring angrily, muttering, pointing, and even outright confronting black women with white men. No offense, but I don’t believe for a second you haven’t ever seen this.

I am white and have dated women of all the major ethnic backgrounds. Black men were an absolute nuisance when I had a black girlfriend. If we were in close proximity to a sketchy downtown area, you would hear some very ignorant comments. But if we were in the burbs or a classier area, no issues whatsoever. And never had an issue when dating women of other races.

As an AA male (but not your "buddy), I believe I'm in the best position to tell you how I and many of us feel about black women involved in interracial relationships. Say what you like, but it simply is not a major issue for us. I am trying not to project my thoughts to all black males, because I think that would be disingenuous. But I've always been in very close contact with a wide range of black males from various backgrounds - doctors to convicted felons. We have 99 problems, but this issue ain't one.

Ok dude. You have a bunch of AA women on here who could also know a lot of black men from different walks of life (and *gasp* may have a dad or a brother who is a black male) describing what they have ACTUALLY experienced yet you are mansplaining how that doesn’t happen?

I did not say it "doesn't happen". I said it's not a prominent issue that most black men deal with. I'm not speaking against the "bunch" of black women you say are on here - I have no reason to doubt their experiences - I was simply stating that I do not believe there is a there, there. It's not. Period. Dude.

Don't bother. There is a certain subset of black women that ant o believe they are perpetually victimized by black men. That black men don't an to date them and they were forced to date hite men. My sisters played this tune when they had chose to marry hite men. They shut up about it hen I married a successful black man. Some people do exprience judgment and racism, ut I believe ea far larger amount just like drama like my sisters.

You are wayyy oversimplifying. It is literally a fact that there are not enough college educated black men for every college educated black women. That doesn’t mean that you have to date white men but that does mean that for a lot of women, if they want to be with someone with the same credentials, they do have to date non-black men.

Nope. Black women ho ant an educated black man can have one. It is that simple. People like you don't like hearing that because then you have to examine your real reasons for dating outside of your race. Please note that I think people of other races do fall in love with each other and get married and people should date who they like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m a black women who exclusively dates black men and am a wonderful relationship with on currently. I would never occur to me to be nasty to other couples, period.

I had a friend who was dating a white woman and he told me that she felt that I didn’t like her. Was surprising to me, but I went out of my way to be kind to her after that because clearly she was a sensitive person. Other than that, can’t think of any time that an IR relationship impacted my life in anyway.

Your friend is what I mean about the drama and attention seeking. You are far more patient than I am.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a white man who only dates WOC. I find that women of my woman's race tend to be envious of her and very friendly to me.

Very interesting. What are the signs they show that indicate they're envious of your woman?

I have a hard time describing the envious looks, but sometimes there are comments. I'm a 6'5" Scandinavian blonde.

Interesting that you think “tall and blond” (no “e” on “blond” when describing a man) is synonymous with attractive. I am confident the envy is made up in your head based on how impressed you are with features of yours that are no guarantee of attractiveness.

+1 This guy seems similar to the one from upthread who would go on rants about how repulsive white women are to his non-white date. The level of weirdness in pointing out that he "only dates WOC" and cataloging how other WOC he meets are jealous of his date and hitting on him ... something's off in this guy's mindset.

No, you have your posters confused.