Spanking?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you use violence on a defenseless child? It is horrible to even think about. I understand that many parents do it because they lack resources and don't know any better, but for an educated parent to do this is pretty inexcusable.

Life is violent. Kids are violent. Some kids don't respond to the modern forms of discipline. Some kids do actually need to be a bit fearful of authority.

Life is as violent as you make it. Mine is not at all violent, and my kids are extremely well behaved, and not violent.

Let's be very clear here - if you hit your children you are the one bringing the violence into their lives.

A properly administered spanking is not violent. A little painful, sure, but not violent.

Of course it is violent. Hitting someone with the intention of hurting someone is obviously violent.

No, it's not violent. It's controlled, and moderated.

vi·o·lence
?v?(?)l?ns/Submit
noun
behavior involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something.
synonyms: brutality, brute force, ferocity, savagery, cruelty, sadism, barbarity, brutishness

Thanks for the definition. This doesn't qualify. It is not brutal, ferocious, savage, cruel, barbaric, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you use violence on a defenseless child? It is horrible to even think about. I understand that many parents do it because they lack resources and don't know any better, but for an educated parent to do this is pretty inexcusable.

Life is violent. Kids are violent. Some kids don't respond to the modern forms of discipline. Some kids do actually need to be a bit fearful of authority.

Life is as violent as you make it. Mine is not at all violent, and my kids are extremely well behaved, and not violent.

Let's be very clear here - if you hit your children you are the one bringing the violence into their lives.

You are missing the point and you know nothing about childhood development. Young children are indeed violent. They want more resources and they will fight for them. We are all animals.

And lets be clear - it depends how you view it. If your children were terribly behaved, and you did not spank, you would be inviting social repercussions and punishment from outside sources into their lives. So, violence.

The American Psychological Association is against spanking.

http://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking.aspx

So is the AAP:

https://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/pages/Spanking-Linked-to-Mental-Illness.aspx

Now who was it who doesn't know anything about child development?

They're trying to prevent abuse, and talking to the lowest common denominator. They're not talking about those who use it sparingly and carefully.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you use violence on a defenseless child? It is horrible to even think about. I understand that many parents do it because they lack resources and don't know any better, but for an educated parent to do this is pretty inexcusable.

Life is violent. Kids are violent. Some kids don't respond to the modern forms of discipline. Some kids do actually need to be a bit fearful of authority.

Life is as violent as you make it. Mine is not at all violent, and my kids are extremely well behaved, and not violent.

Let's be very clear here - if you hit your children you are the one bringing the violence into their lives.

You are missing the point and you know nothing about childhood development. Young children are indeed violent. They want more resources and they will fight for them. We are all animals.

And lets be clear - it depends how you view it. If your children were terribly behaved, and you did not spank, you would be inviting social repercussions and punishment from outside sources into their lives. So, violence.

The American Psychological Association is against spanking.

http://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking.aspx

So is the AAP:

https://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/pages/Spanking-Linked-to-Mental-Illness.aspx

Now who was it who doesn't know anything about child development?

They're against a lot of things like kids eating crap and watching iPhones yet ......

I support people disciplining their children. I support parents in knowing what that takes for certain children and situations. Most parents on here are doing the best they can.

[Anonymous]

DH and I refuse to spank our DD. My father spanked me from before the time I even understood what was happening. I used to hide under the bed whenever he came home from work because I associated him with hitting me.

I think parents who spank their children are too lazy to really discipline their kids. It's a heck of a lot easier to just smack your child to get them to shut up or do something you want rather than to figure out what's causing a particular behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DH and I refuse to spank our DD. My father spanked me from before the time I even understood what was happening. I used to hide under the bed whenever he came home from work because I associated him with hitting me.

I think parents who spank their children are too lazy to really discipline their kids. It's a heck of a lot easier to just smack your child to get them to shut up or do something you want rather than to figure out what's causing a particular behavior.

There's certainly some of that going on, but it doesn't describe what we're talking about here. Nobody here is smacking their kids just to get them to "shut up" or "do something you want."

It's a deliberate punishment to deter egregious or particularly disobedient behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DH and I refuse to spank our DD. My father spanked me from before the time I even understood what was happening. I used to hide under the bed whenever he came home from work because I associated him with hitting me.

I think parents who spank their children are too lazy to really discipline their kids. It's a heck of a lot easier to just smack your child to get them to shut up or do something you want rather than to figure out what's causing a particular behavior.

If you actually read the thread - most parents that spank noted they do that in rare instances and use a lot of other techniques. For some particularly impulsive behaviors, they may know what is causing it, but not have another more effective way to stop it in the moment - for example, like running in the street, grabbing a knife, waving a shovel, etc., etc. If they can, they use another tactic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is such a white American discussion.

Spanking is not associated with negative outcomes across all cultures. For example, in black Americans some studies have found that spanking has an inverse association with outcomes. Here's an excerpt from NurtureShock:

Excerpt from Nurture Shock, p. 186-187:

“...so Dodge conducted a long-term study of corporal punishment’s affect on 453 kids, both black and white, tracking them from kindergarten through eleventh grade.
When Dodge’s team presented its findings at a conference, the data did not make people happy. This wasn’t because blacks used corporal punishment more than whites. (They did, but not by much.) Rather, Dodge’s team had found a reverse correlation in black families - the more a child was spanked, the less aggressive the child over time. The spanked black kid was all around less likely to be in trouble.

Scholars publicly castigated Dodge’s team, saying its findings were racist and dangerous to report. Journalists rushed to interview Dodge and the study’s lead author, Dr. Jennifer Lansford. A national news reporter asked Dodge if his research meant the key to effective punishment was to hit children more frequently. The reporter may have been facetious in his query, but Dodge and Lansford - both of whom remain adamantly against the use of physical discipline - were so horrified by such questions that they enlisted a team of fourteen scholars to study the use of corporal punishment around the world.

Why would spanking trigger such problems in white children, but cause no problems for black children, even when used a little more frequently? With the help of the subsequent international studies, Dodge has pieced together an explanation for his team’s results. To understand, one has to consider how the parent is acting when giving the spanking, and how those actions label the child. In a culture where spanking is accepted practice [an African-American community, in this study’s case], it becomes ‘the normal thing that goes on in this culture when a kid does something he shouldn’t.’ Even if the parent might spank her child only two or three times in his life, it’s treated as ordinary consequences. In the black community Dodge studied, a spanking was seen as something that every kid went through.

Conversely, in the white community Dodge studied, physical discipline was a mostly-unspoken taboo. It was saved only for the worst offenses. The parent was usually very angry at the child and had lost his or her temper. The implicit message was: ‘What you have done is so deviant that you deserve a special punishment, which is spanking.’ It marked the child as someone who has lost his place within traditional society.

It’s not just a white-black thing either. A University of Texas study of conservative Protestants found that one-third of them spanked their kids three or more times a week, largely encouraged by Dr. James Dobson’s Focus on the Family. The study found no negative effects from this corporal punishment - precisely because it was conveyed as normal.

Each in its own way, the work of Cummings and Dodge demonstrate the same dynamic: an oversimplified view of aggression leads parents to sometimes makes it worse for kids when they’re trying to do the right thing. Children key off their parents’ reaction more than the argument or physical discipline itself.”

And here's a link to the original study:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2772061/

Alfie Kohn has a good rebuttal to this in Unconditional Parenting. Nurture Shock in general is some good science mixed with junk science.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you use violence on a defenseless child? It is horrible to even think about. I understand that many parents do it because they lack resources and don't know any better, but for an educated parent to do this is pretty inexcusable.

Life is violent. Kids are violent. Some kids don't respond to the modern forms of discipline. Some kids do actually need to be a bit fearful of authority.

Life is as violent as you make it. Mine is not at all violent, and my kids are extremely well behaved, and not violent.

Let's be very clear here - if you hit your children you are the one bringing the violence into their lives.

You are missing the point and you know nothing about childhood development. Young children are indeed violent. They want more resources and they will fight for them. We are all animals.

And lets be clear - it depends how you view it. If your children were terribly behaved, and you did not spank, you would be inviting social repercussions and punishment from outside sources into their lives. So, violence.

The American Psychological Association is against spanking.

http://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking.aspx

So is the AAP:

https://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/pages/Spanking-Linked-to-Mental-Illness.aspx

Now who was it who doesn't know anything about child development?

They're trying to prevent abuse, and talking to the lowest common denominator. They're not talking about those who use it sparingly and carefully.

I missed that qualifier. Where does it say that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you use violence on a defenseless child? It is horrible to even think about. I understand that many parents do it because they lack resources and don't know any better, but for an educated parent to do this is pretty inexcusable.

Life is violent. Kids are violent. Some kids don't respond to the modern forms of discipline. Some kids do actually need to be a bit fearful of authority.

My life is not violent. My kids are not violent. I'm not violent. We do not condone or practice any kind of violence in our home, including hitting as discipline.

Spanking is illegal in many countries. Legality doesn't make it right.

Sorry, but all of life is violent. Having so much when others have nothing - social violence. The struggle for resources is violent. The quest to succeed is violent. You can pretend not to be caught up in it, but we all are.

Do list all the countries where spanking is prosecuted.

Here's another link:

http://www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/parenting/news/a42208/france-banned-spanking/

They were all listed and then you (?) moved the goalposts saying that some people in those countries still spank. Lots of people do illegal things. Thus?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you use violence on a defenseless child? It is horrible to even think about. I understand that many parents do it because they lack resources and don't know any better, but for an educated parent to do this is pretty inexcusable.

Life is violent. Kids are violent. Some kids don't respond to the modern forms of discipline. Some kids do actually need to be a bit fearful of authority.

Life is as violent as you make it. Mine is not at all violent, and my kids are extremely well behaved, and not violent.

Let's be very clear here - if you hit your children you are the one bringing the violence into their lives.

You are missing the point and you know nothing about childhood development. Young children are indeed violent. They want more resources and they will fight for them. We are all animals.

And lets be clear - it depends how you view it. If your children were terribly behaved, and you did not spank, you would be inviting social repercussions and punishment from outside sources into their lives. So, violence.

The American Psychological Association is against spanking.

http://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking.aspx

So is the AAP:

https://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/pages/Spanking-Linked-to-Mental-Illness.aspx

Now who was it who doesn't know anything about child development?

They're against a lot of things like kids eating crap and watching iPhones yet ......

I support people disciplining their children. I support parents in knowing what that takes for certain children and situations. Most parents on here are doing the best they can.

Yes, they are for good nutrition and limited or no screen time for young children, for proper child development.

And your point is what? That these professional associations don't know what practices are best for good child development? That you, by virtue of having had sex and given birth, know better?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and I refuse to spank our DD. My father spanked me from before the time I even understood what was happening. I used to hide under the bed whenever he came home from work because I associated him with hitting me.

I think parents who spank their children are too lazy to really discipline their kids. It's a heck of a lot easier to just smack your child to get them to shut up or do something you want rather than to figure out what's causing a particular behavior.

If you actually read the thread - most parents that spank noted they do that in rare instances and use a lot of other techniques. For some particularly impulsive behaviors, they may know what is causing it, but not have another more effective way to stop it in the moment - for example, like running in the street, grabbing a knife, waving a shovel, etc., etc. If they can, they use another tactic.

So you can spank your kid "in the moment" but you can't use that moment to grab them out of the street? Ditto to the other examples listed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you use violence on a defenseless child? It is horrible to even think about. I understand that many parents do it because they lack resources and don't know any better, but for an educated parent to do this is pretty inexcusable.

Life is violent. Kids are violent. Some kids don't respond to the modern forms of discipline. Some kids do actually need to be a bit fearful of authority.

My life is not violent. My kids are not violent. I'm not violent. We do not condone or practice any kind of violence in our home, including hitting as discipline.

Spanking is illegal in many countries. Legality doesn't make it right.

Sorry, but all of life is violent. Having so much when others have nothing - social violence. The struggle for resources is violent. The quest to succeed is violent. You can pretend not to be caught up in it, but we all are.

Do list all the countries where spanking is prosecuted.

Here's another link:

http://www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/parenting/news/a42208/france-banned-spanking/

They were all listed and then you (?) moved the goalposts saying that some people in those countries still spank. Lots of people do illegal things. Thus?

yes, I said PROSECUTED. Reading comprehension is key. No goalposts moved, just a failure to actually get them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and I refuse to spank our DD. My father spanked me from before the time I even understood what was happening. I used to hide under the bed whenever he came home from work because I associated him with hitting me.

I think parents who spank their children are too lazy to really discipline their kids. It's a heck of a lot easier to just smack your child to get them to shut up or do something you want rather than to figure out what's causing a particular behavior.

If you actually read the thread - most parents that spank noted they do that in rare instances and use a lot of other techniques. For some particularly impulsive behaviors, they may know what is causing it, but not have another more effective way to stop it in the moment - for example, like running in the street, grabbing a knife, waving a shovel, etc., etc. If they can, they use another tactic.

So you can spank your kid "in the moment" but you can't use that moment to grab them out of the street? Ditto to the other examples listed?

There is also deterrence. The idea is - you spank them once, and they don't do it again. Worked for my kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you don't think there's plenty of spanking going on in those countries, you're crazy and naïve.

For the vast majority of those countries "banning corporal punishment" is just a means to enable prosecutors to punish egregious abuse, the level of which nobody on here would endorse or tolerate.

They have not effectively banned moderate spanking.

You are moving the goal post.

In 42 countries, hitting your child is ILLEGAL. It is widely acknowledged and agreed to be violent, criminal behavior.

[Anonymous]

Oh god. So barbaric, and so low class. Literally one of the trashiest parenting moves out there. Not to mention sickening