Spanking?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you use violence on a defenseless child? It is horrible to even think about. I understand that many parents do it because they lack resources and don't know any better, but for an educated parent to do this is pretty inexcusable.

Life is violent. Kids are violent. Some kids don't respond to the modern forms of discipline. Some kids do actually need to be a bit fearful of authority.

Life is as violent as you make it. Mine is not at all violent, and my kids are extremely well behaved, and not violent.

Let's be very clear here - if you hit your children you are the one bringing the violence into their lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you use violence on a defenseless child? It is horrible to even think about. I understand that many parents do it because they lack resources and don't know any better, but for an educated parent to do this is pretty inexcusable.

Life is violent. Kids are violent. Some kids don't respond to the modern forms of discipline. Some kids do actually need to be a bit fearful of authority.

Life is as violent as you make it. Mine is not at all violent, and my kids are extremely well behaved, and not violent.

Let's be very clear here - if you hit your children you are the one bringing the violence into their lives.

A properly administered spanking is not violent. A little painful, sure, but not violent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP with spanking DH again. I will admit DC listens a bit better to DH than to me, which he throws in my face when we fight about spanking. So FWIW in his view it works.

My ex spanked and I never did. DD listens to me better. My ex will even say "DD respects you much more than she respects me."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you use violence on a defenseless child? It is horrible to even think about. I understand that many parents do it because they lack resources and don't know any better, but for an educated parent to do this is pretty inexcusable.

Life is violent. Kids are violent. Some kids don't respond to the modern forms of discipline. Some kids do actually need to be a bit fearful of authority.

Life is as violent as you make it. Mine is not at all violent, and my kids are extremely well behaved, and not violent.

Let's be very clear here - if you hit your children you are the one bringing the violence into their lives.

You are missing the point and you know nothing about childhood development. Young children are indeed violent. They want more resources and they will fight for them. We are all animals.

And lets be clear - it depends how you view it. If your children were terribly behaved, and you did not spank, you would be inviting social repercussions and punishment from outside sources into their lives. So, violence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you use violence on a defenseless child? It is horrible to even think about. I understand that many parents do it because they lack resources and don't know any better, but for an educated parent to do this is pretty inexcusable.

Life is violent. Kids are violent. Some kids don't respond to the modern forms of discipline. Some kids do actually need to be a bit fearful of authority.

My life is not violent. My kids are not violent. I'm not violent. We do not condone or practice any kind of violence in our home, including hitting as discipline.

Spanking is illegal in many countries. Legality doesn't make it right.

Sorry, but all of life is violent. Having so much when others have nothing - social violence. The struggle for resources is violent. The quest to succeed is violent. You can pretend not to be caught up in it, but we all are.

Do list all the countries where spanking is prosecuted.

Life is not violent. People are violent when they choose to be violent. In my house, we choose not to engage in violent acts.

http://untribune.com/42-countries-banned-corporal-punishment/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you use violence on a defenseless child? It is horrible to even think about. I understand that many parents do it because they lack resources and don't know any better, but for an educated parent to do this is pretty inexcusable.

It's hardly "violent." If it were an angry, violent reaction or outburst, I certainly wouldn't allow it.

So people hit children when they're in good spirits?

Good spirits has nothing to do with it. The point is to not do it in a moment of anger, or because of anger.

And the reason to do it is because you are too lazy to use other, more work-intensive discipline methods with consistency.

I'd say the reason to do it is because it works, and we're not looking for more work-intensive discipline methods. We have a younger child, we both WOH. At some point, DS just needs to learn to obey, and he's not entitled to the most work-intensive means to make that happen.

It works in the moment. That doesn't mean it works for the long term for your child's development.

Sign up for a PEP class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you use violence on a defenseless child? It is horrible to even think about. I understand that many parents do it because they lack resources and don't know any better, but for an educated parent to do this is pretty inexcusable.

Life is violent. Kids are violent. Some kids don't respond to the modern forms of discipline. Some kids do actually need to be a bit fearful of authority.

Life is as violent as you make it. Mine is not at all violent, and my kids are extremely well behaved, and not violent.

Let's be very clear here - if you hit your children you are the one bringing the violence into their lives.

A properly administered spanking is not violent. A little painful, sure, but not violent.

Of course it is violent. Hitting someone with the intention of hurting someone is obviously violent.

[Anonymous]

If you don't think there's plenty of spanking going on in those countries, you're crazy and naïve.

For the vast majority of those countries "banning corporal punishment" is just a means to enable prosecutors to punish egregious abuse, the level of which nobody on here would endorse or tolerate.

They have not effectively banned moderate spanking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you use violence on a defenseless child? It is horrible to even think about. I understand that many parents do it because they lack resources and don't know any better, but for an educated parent to do this is pretty inexcusable.

Life is violent. Kids are violent. Some kids don't respond to the modern forms of discipline. Some kids do actually need to be a bit fearful of authority.

Life is as violent as you make it. Mine is not at all violent, and my kids are extremely well behaved, and not violent.

Let's be very clear here - if you hit your children you are the one bringing the violence into their lives.

A properly administered spanking is not violent. A little painful, sure, but not violent.

Of course it is violent. Hitting someone with the intention of hurting someone is obviously violent.

No, it's not violent. It's controlled, and moderated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you use violence on a defenseless child? It is horrible to even think about. I understand that many parents do it because they lack resources and don't know any better, but for an educated parent to do this is pretty inexcusable.

It's hardly "violent." If it were an angry, violent reaction or outburst, I certainly wouldn't allow it.

So people hit children when they're in good spirits?

Good spirits has nothing to do with it. The point is to not do it in a moment of anger, or because of anger.

And the reason to do it is because you are too lazy to use other, more work-intensive discipline methods with consistency.

I'd say the reason to do it is because it works, and we're not looking for more work-intensive discipline methods. We have a younger child, we both WOH. At some point, DS just needs to learn to obey, and he's not entitled to the most work-intensive means to make that happen.

It works in the moment. That doesn't mean it works for the long term for your child's development.

Sign up for a PEP class.

This "in the moment, not long term" would be a valid criticism if spanking were the only form of discipline and teaching parents engaged in. But when it's used as a last resort, when other methods have failed, its' fine, and this critique is not applicable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you use violence on a defenseless child? It is horrible to even think about. I understand that many parents do it because they lack resources and don't know any better, but for an educated parent to do this is pretty inexcusable.

Life is violent. Kids are violent. Some kids don't respond to the modern forms of discipline. Some kids do actually need to be a bit fearful of authority.

Life is as violent as you make it. Mine is not at all violent, and my kids are extremely well behaved, and not violent.

Let's be very clear here - if you hit your children you are the one bringing the violence into their lives.

You are missing the point and you know nothing about childhood development. Young children are indeed violent. They want more resources and they will fight for them. We are all animals.

And lets be clear - it depends how you view it. If your children were terribly behaved, and you did not spank, you would be inviting social repercussions and punishment from outside sources into their lives. So, violence.

You can discipline without violence. Your job is to minimize the violence in their lives, not maximize it.

It is like saying that rape is a natural phenomenon, so it is OK to rape people. You bring your kids up not to rape. And you don't need to rape them to do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you use violence on a defenseless child? It is horrible to even think about. I understand that many parents do it because they lack resources and don't know any better, but for an educated parent to do this is pretty inexcusable.

Life is violent. Kids are violent. Some kids don't respond to the modern forms of discipline. Some kids do actually need to be a bit fearful of authority.

Life is as violent as you make it. Mine is not at all violent, and my kids are extremely well behaved, and not violent.

Let's be very clear here - if you hit your children you are the one bringing the violence into their lives.

A properly administered spanking is not violent. A little painful, sure, but not violent.

Of course it is violent. Hitting someone with the intention of hurting someone is obviously violent.

No, it's not violent. It's controlled, and moderated.

vi·o·lence
?v?(?)l?ns/Submit
noun
behavior involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something.
synonyms: brutality, brute force, ferocity, savagery, cruelty, sadism, barbarity, brutishness

[Anonymous]

This is such a white American discussion.

Spanking is not associated with negative outcomes across all cultures. For example, in black Americans some studies have found that spanking has an inverse association with outcomes. Here's an excerpt from NurtureShock:

Excerpt from Nurture Shock, p. 186-187:

“...so Dodge conducted a long-term study of corporal punishment’s affect on 453 kids, both black and white, tracking them from kindergarten through eleventh grade.
When Dodge’s team presented its findings at a conference, the data did not make people happy. This wasn’t because blacks used corporal punishment more than whites. (They did, but not by much.) Rather, Dodge’s team had found a reverse correlation in black families - the more a child was spanked, the less aggressive the child over time. The spanked black kid was all around less likely to be in trouble.

Scholars publicly castigated Dodge’s team, saying its findings were racist and dangerous to report. Journalists rushed to interview Dodge and the study’s lead author, Dr. Jennifer Lansford. A national news reporter asked Dodge if his research meant the key to effective punishment was to hit children more frequently. The reporter may have been facetious in his query, but Dodge and Lansford - both of whom remain adamantly against the use of physical discipline - were so horrified by such questions that they enlisted a team of fourteen scholars to study the use of corporal punishment around the world.

Why would spanking trigger such problems in white children, but cause no problems for black children, even when used a little more frequently? With the help of the subsequent international studies, Dodge has pieced together an explanation for his team’s results. To understand, one has to consider how the parent is acting when giving the spanking, and how those actions label the child. In a culture where spanking is accepted practice [an African-American community, in this study’s case], it becomes ‘the normal thing that goes on in this culture when a kid does something he shouldn’t.’ Even if the parent might spank her child only two or three times in his life, it’s treated as ordinary consequences. In the black community Dodge studied, a spanking was seen as something that every kid went through.

Conversely, in the white community Dodge studied, physical discipline was a mostly-unspoken taboo. It was saved only for the worst offenses. The parent was usually very angry at the child and had lost his or her temper. The implicit message was: ‘What you have done is so deviant that you deserve a special punishment, which is spanking.’ It marked the child as someone who has lost his place within traditional society.

It’s not just a white-black thing either. A University of Texas study of conservative Protestants found that one-third of them spanked their kids three or more times a week, largely encouraged by Dr. James Dobson’s Focus on the Family. The study found no negative effects from this corporal punishment - precisely because it was conveyed as normal.

Each in its own way, the work of Cummings and Dodge demonstrate the same dynamic: an oversimplified view of aggression leads parents to sometimes makes it worse for kids when they’re trying to do the right thing. Children key off their parents’ reaction more than the argument or physical discipline itself.”

And here's a link to the original study:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2772061/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you use violence on a defenseless child? It is horrible to even think about. I understand that many parents do it because they lack resources and don't know any better, but for an educated parent to do this is pretty inexcusable.

Life is violent. Kids are violent. Some kids don't respond to the modern forms of discipline. Some kids do actually need to be a bit fearful of authority.

Life is as violent as you make it. Mine is not at all violent, and my kids are extremely well behaved, and not violent.

Let's be very clear here - if you hit your children you are the one bringing the violence into their lives.

You are missing the point and you know nothing about childhood development. Young children are indeed violent. They want more resources and they will fight for them. We are all animals.

And lets be clear - it depends how you view it. If your children were terribly behaved, and you did not spank, you would be inviting social repercussions and punishment from outside sources into their lives. So, violence.

The American Psychological Association is against spanking.

http://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking.aspx

So is the AAP:

https://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/pages/Spanking-Linked-to-Mental-Illness.aspx

Now who was it who doesn't know anything about child development?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you swatting him where he does not really feel it but it get his attention.

Or are you hitting hard so it hurts to deter him from doing X again?

When DH does it, it's meant to hurt a little bit. He goes through the whole process.

If you are intentionally trying to physically hurt your child that is not good. Period.