Missing Muslim teen found dead in Fairfax County - suspect arrested

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The man arrested for her murder was a Hispanic male, Darwin Martinez Torres.

Even if true, that detail in no way rules out that this was quite possibly a hate crime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only person that considers the possibility he was drunk? Wouldn't count out an anti-Muslim bias, but would go some ways to explaining the extraordinary escalation of confronting a fairly large group of teenagers and then kidnapping/beating/killing one of them.

Yeah. Drunk, high - something caused an explosive reaction in him.

- or a prejudiced/ Islamophobic reaction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are the elements that make a crime a hate crime? What do the police and/or prosecutors look for that mark the difference?

There are plenty of ways to qualify violence, which means there have to be different ways of punishing/preventing it within a society as well. There may be crimes of opportunity (eg a mugging, theft), sexual violence (eg rape, sexual assault), political violence (eg terrorism, collateral damage to civilians during an insurgency, etc), etc etc. AFAIU, a hate crime would be if the variables of the situation pointed to an individual carrying out violence against another individual based solely on a set of 'identifiers' like race, gender, religion, etc. Not a super exact science, but there's definitely a reason why it's categorized differently.

What are the elements of a hate crime in terms of criminal law? What's the legal definition in Virginia?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are the elements that make a crime a hate crime? What do the police and/or prosecutors look for that mark the difference?

There are plenty of ways to qualify violence, which means there have to be different ways of punishing/preventing it within a society as well. There may be crimes of opportunity (eg a mugging, theft), sexual violence (eg rape, sexual assault), political violence (eg terrorism, collateral damage to civilians during an insurgency, etc), etc etc. AFAIU, a hate crime would be if the variables of the situation pointed to an individual carrying out violence against another individual based solely on a set of 'identifiers' like race, gender, religion, etc. Not a super exact science, but there's definitely a reason why it's categorized differently.

What are the elements of a hate crime in terms of criminal law? What's the legal definition in Virginia?

Okay, found it in US law:

(1)Offenses involving actual or perceived race, color, religion, or national origin.—Whoever, whether or not acting under color of law, willfully causes bodily injury to any person or, through the use of fire, a firearm, a dangerous weapon, or an explosive or incendiary device, attempts to cause bodily injury to any person, because of the actual or perceived race, color, religion, or national origin of any person—

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/249

So, it looks like the race of the person committing the crime doesn't matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only person that considers the possibility he was drunk? Wouldn't count out an anti-Muslim bias, but would go some ways to explaining the extraordinary escalation of confronting a fairly large group of teenagers and then kidnapping/beating/killing one of them.

Yeah. Drunk, high - something caused an explosive reaction in him.

- or a prejudiced/ Islamophobic reaction.

I've never heard of the "Islamaphobic" reaction you're talking about. See a girl in a hijab or abaya and kill her?

This sounds more like random violence than anything else, but as more details come out. we'll know more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only person that considers the possibility he was drunk? Wouldn't count out an anti-Muslim bias, but would go some ways to explaining the extraordinary escalation of confronting a fairly large group of teenagers and then kidnapping/beating/killing one of them.

Yeah. Drunk, high - something caused an explosive reaction in him.

- or a prejudiced/ Islamophobic reaction.

I've never heard of the "Islamaphobic" reaction you're talking about. See a girl in a hijab or abaya and kill her?

This sounds more like random violence than anything else, but as more details come out. we'll know more.

? How can you say that after what happened in London last night? I'm not saying that the Sterling case is a hate crime against a Muslim girl, but surely it's a possibility, and surely you can entertain the possibility? Wanton speculation isn't a good thing, for sure, and agreed we should wait until more details come out, but to say you've never 'heard of' an 'Islamophobic' reaction seems unreasonable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only person that considers the possibility he was drunk? Wouldn't count out an anti-Muslim bias, but would go some ways to explaining the extraordinary escalation of confronting a fairly large group of teenagers and then kidnapping/beating/killing one of them.

Yeah. Drunk, high - something caused an explosive reaction in him.

- or a prejudiced/ Islamophobic reaction.

hence "wouldn't count out an anti-Muslim bias." Doesn't have to be black or white. Even if he was drunk that wouldn't excuse any anti-Muslim bias if there was proven to be one, just as the killing of a Muslim girl doesn't automatically suggest an anti-Muslim bias. Merely suggesting that there could have been an accelerant like alcohol or drugs to escalate whatever issues the dude was dealing with at the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only person that considers the possibility he was drunk? Wouldn't count out an anti-Muslim bias, but would go some ways to explaining the extraordinary escalation of confronting a fairly large group of teenagers and then kidnapping/beating/killing one of them.

Yeah. Drunk, high - something caused an explosive reaction in him.

- or a prejudiced/ Islamophobic reaction.

I've never heard of the "Islamaphobic" reaction you're talking about. See a girl in a hijab or abaya and kill her?

This sounds more like random violence than anything else, but as more details come out. we'll know more.

I have known Muslim women who were doing nothing except grocery shopping, or browsing in a bookstore, or ordering coffee at Starbucks, who were harasses out of nowhere to "go back to your country" (despite these women being American born). It's not unfathomable to see random harassment, to random violence.

Also, remember 9/11? Remember backlash against Muslim and Sikh people, who were just going about their business? Many were attacked, had their businesses trashed, or even killed. For doing nothing except sharing a very broad label with some awful people, but stupid dipshits had a fear of random Muslims and decided to attack them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only person that considers the possibility he was drunk? Wouldn't count out an anti-Muslim bias, but would go some ways to explaining the extraordinary escalation of confronting a fairly large group of teenagers and then kidnapping/beating/killing one of them.

Yeah. Drunk, high - something caused an explosive reaction in him.

- or a prejudiced/ Islamophobic reaction.

I've never heard of the "Islamaphobic" reaction you're talking about. See a girl in a hijab or abaya and kill her?

This sounds more like random violence than anything else, but as more details come out. we'll know more.

I have known Muslim women who were doing nothing except grocery shopping, or browsing in a bookstore, or ordering coffee at Starbucks, who were harasses out of nowhere to "go back to your country" (despite these women being American born). It's not unfathomable to see random harassment, to random violence.

Also, remember 9/11? Remember backlash against Muslim and Sikh people, who were just going about their business? Many were attacked, had their businesses trashed, or even killed. For doing nothing except sharing a very broad label with some awful people, but stupid dipshits had a fear of random Muslims and decided to attack them.

Sorry, I see a big difference between people acting badly, harassing or threatening a woman in a hijab versus killing her. I think one is bad behavior, possibly criminal, and the other is homicidal.

It's possible that this killing was only motivated by Islamophobia, but currently it doesn't seem that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only person that considers the possibility he was drunk? Wouldn't count out an anti-Muslim bias, but would go some ways to explaining the extraordinary escalation of confronting a fairly large group of teenagers and then kidnapping/beating/killing one of them.

Yeah. Drunk, high - something caused an explosive reaction in him.

- or a prejudiced/ Islamophobic reaction.

I've never heard of the "Islamaphobic" reaction you're talking about. See a girl in a hijab or abaya and kill her?

This sounds more like random violence than anything else, but as more details come out. we'll know more.

I have known Muslim women who were doing nothing except grocery shopping, or browsing in a bookstore, or ordering coffee at Starbucks, who were harasses out of nowhere to "go back to your country" (despite these women being American born). It's not unfathomable to see random harassment, to random violence.

Also, remember 9/11? Remember backlash against Muslim and Sikh people, who were just going about their business? Many were attacked, had their businesses trashed, or even killed. For doing nothing except sharing a very broad label with some awful people, but stupid dipshits had a fear of random Muslims and decided to attack them.

Sorry, I see a big difference between people acting badly, harassing or threatening a woman in a hijab versus killing her. I think one is bad behavior, possibly criminal, and the other is homicidal.

It's possible that this killing was only motivated by Islamophobia, but currently it doesn't seem that way.

I don't.

I see it in the same vein of reactionary hatred, albeit more severe.

[Anonymous]

What happened to that young lady is horrible.

Is anyone else thinking that the friends' story about an "argument breaking out" sound odd? Something tells me that there is more to this story...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They say there was some sort of dispute between the driver of the car and the group of kids walking. The driver got out swinging a baseball bat and maybe knocked her down or she fell trying to get away.

It seems like a random attack, yet, the assailant abducted her. That seems unusual and particularly scary. I'm glad that they have the one suspect in custody and I hope that if there are any more suspects that they are apprehended ASAP.

My speculation based on watching/reading too many mystery and crime stories:

It's not a good idea to walk on that stretch of road to begin with but a group of teenage girls and very little to no cars, and the group was spilling into the street thinking their was no need to be as cautious as daytime.

Driver comes up quickly and the girls have to quickly move out of the way and they start shouting after the driver, maybe waving phones like they will take pics or call police.

Driver stops and confrontation ensues and driver might be drunk/tipsy and/or angry likely over something not related at all to these girls. They just fuel his anger. Maybe this girl threatens to call police and the driver gets scared. He wants to intimidate the girls and uses the baseball bat but accidentally hits the girl. The other girls have run off so he doesn't think they saw what happened. He picks her up and has the intention of getting help but maybe she dies in the car and he panics and then he leaves in her at the location she is found.

Next day he still feels guilty, thinks maybe he is wrong that she was dead and tries to go back and find her except police are there and notice him lurking around and stop to question him and then arrest him.

You're basically trying to make the killer look sympathetic. Sorry, I don't care what was said, anyone who gets out of their car swinging a metal baseball bat at people deserves no sympathy. Maybe have some sympathy for the family and stop speculating and justifying the death of their child.

Where did I make the killer out to be sympathetic? What action did he take that was sympathetic?

None of his actions were sympathetic, but your attempts to account for what happened most certainly tried to not paint him as the cold blooded killer that he is (e.g. the driver gets scared...he accidentally hits her...he has the intention of getting help...he feels guilty...). You know none of these things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only person that considers the possibility he was drunk? Wouldn't count out an anti-Muslim bias, but would go some ways to explaining the extraordinary escalation of confronting a fairly large group of teenagers and then kidnapping/beating/killing one of them.

Yeah. Drunk, high - something caused an explosive reaction in him.

- or a prejudiced/ Islamophobic reaction.

I've never heard of the "Islamaphobic" reaction you're talking about. See a girl in a hijab or abaya and kill her?

This sounds more like random violence than anything else, but as more details come out. we'll know more.

I have known Muslim women who were doing nothing except grocery shopping, or browsing in a bookstore, or ordering coffee at Starbucks, who were harasses out of nowhere to "go back to your country" (despite these women being American born). It's not unfathomable to see random harassment, to random violence.

Also, remember 9/11? Remember backlash against Muslim and Sikh people, who were just going about their business? Many were attacked, had their businesses trashed, or even killed. For doing nothing except sharing a very broad label with some awful people, but stupid dipshits had a fear of random Muslims and decided to attack them.

Sorry, I see a big difference between people acting badly, harassing or threatening a woman in a hijab versus killing her. I think one is bad behavior, possibly criminal, and the other is homicidal.

It's possible that this killing was only motivated by Islamophobia, but currently it doesn't seem that way.

I don't.

I see it in the same vein of reactionary hatred, albeit more severe.

Same here. The more details they release, the more this sounds like a hate crime.

[Anonymous]

FCPD should release more information. I'm going to assume that the suspect gave some incriminating statements that led them to believe this wasn't a hate crime such as they "disrespected" him in some way. Otherwise people are going to think that this isn't being looked at as a hate crime because the murderer is Hispanic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They say there was some sort of dispute between the driver of the car and the group of kids walking. The driver got out swinging a baseball bat and maybe knocked her down or she fell trying to get away.

It seems like a random attack, yet, the assailant abducted her. That seems unusual and particularly scary. I'm glad that they have the one suspect in custody and I hope that if there are any more suspects that they are apprehended ASAP.

My speculation based on watching/reading too many mystery and crime stories:

It's not a good idea to walk on that stretch of road to begin with but a group of teenage girls and very little to no cars, and the group was spilling into the street thinking their was no need to be as cautious as daytime.

Driver comes up quickly and the girls have to quickly move out of the way and they start shouting after the driver, maybe waving phones like they will take pics or call police.

Driver stops and confrontation ensues and driver might be drunk/tipsy and/or angry likely over something not related at all to these girls. They just fuel his anger. Maybe this girl threatens to call police and the driver gets scared. He wants to intimidate the girls and uses the baseball bat but accidentally hits the girl. The other girls have run off so he doesn't think they saw what happened. He picks her up and has the intention of getting help but maybe she dies in the car and he panics and then he leaves in her at the location she is found.

Next day he still feels guilty, thinks maybe he is wrong that she was dead and tries to go back and find her except police are there and notice him lurking around and stop to question him and then arrest him.

You're basically trying to make the killer look sympathetic. Sorry, I don't care what was said, anyone who gets out of their car swinging a metal baseball bat at people deserves no sympathy. Maybe have some sympathy for the family and stop speculating and justifying the death of their child.

Where did I make the killer out to be sympathetic? What action did he take that was sympathetic?

None of his actions were sympathetic, but your attempts to account for what happened most certainly tried to not paint him as the cold blooded killer that he is (e.g. the driver gets scared...he accidentally hits her...he has the intention of getting help...he feels guilty...). You know none of these things.

Yep and I said that I knew none of these things as I wrote I was speculating.

The police have already state it was not a hate crime so his motivation was not that she was Muslim which is what you seem to have wanted.

Often times the sad truth is that killers ended up being killers and victims end up being victims by happenstance rather than any kind of outright planning or being targeted. And that's what I think happened here. And in those cases, I do think the killers can feel scared, feel remorse and still be killers. Having those emotions doesn't negate their actions and I never suggested it did. You did that.