Well I think its safe to say my DIL hates us

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow. You are too involved in his life. You have no right to give him "advice" - I use that term loosely. You are tampering with all their lives. You are the nightmare MIL we all dread.

Please speak for your sad sham of a family where children can't seek advice from their parents.

I can't believe some of you are for real. You gotta be trolling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
People do in fact make agreements about their lives together before they marry and have children.
And then they either stick to those plans or agree to change them.
He's not the ' parent' making decisions and she's not a powerless child expected to accept those decisions and 'grow up'. They should be having the life they agreed to.

OP didn't indicate any of this was done against DIL's will. Now that it's done, there is no point in whining. Maybe she made a mistake when she agreed to this change, but at this point she should grow up and stick it out. Giving up now doesn't make any sense.

It was done against her will. It was a decision made between son and parents, not husband and wife.

This marriage may not survive, cultural norms against divorce or not.

You made this up, didn't you?

[Anonymous]

Wow, talk about a case where people should have waited to have kids. That would have solved a lot of these problems.

I'm sure it's cultural, but I can't even imagine this level of involvement from parents in a grown adult's life. It's hard for me to even comment because it is so foreign to me and frankly, seems very unhealthy.

I'm sure your DIL doesn't hate you, but she probably doesn't like you very much either. I don't know her background, but you just need to know this sounds extremely heavy handed to many of us. I would have never married into a family like this. No freaking way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone else think Op is a troll? This man seems WAY too tethered to his parents.


I do. the OP's follow up message is ridiculous. I can't honestly believe this is a real person. And honey, don't kid yourself....divorce is always an option, regardless of what your "culture" is.

[Anonymous]

I'm struck by the number of posts on DCUM that lay out a weird situation, then, when the posts respond that it's a weird situation, the OP responds that "we're from a different country and that's normal in our culture, so we're not going to change that." If you're from a different culture, I don't think it makes sense for you to seek advice from a generally American-born audience unless you're open to the way that the situation is typically handled within the American culture.

I mean, I get it if your post is "We're not from the U.S., but my DIL is, and I'd like some help in understanding her expectations." But if your response is just going to be "Oh, well, our culture is different, so none of your advice applies to us..." -- then maybe you should post on a message board that is based in your country of origin or specific to your culture and maybe they'd give you some advice or sympathy that you could use.

This comment is not particular to OP, but I feel like 15-25% of all the "family relationships" posts (and also a lot of the general parenting and relationship posts) boil down to this sort of problem.

[Anonymous]

I think many of you are either projecting or have a hard time understanding written English. Nothing OP wrote is as horrible as it seems to you for some reason. Re-read the original message as many times as you need to understand this.

OP, just ignore the haters. No one could predict your DIL will commit to this change first, then turn the tables insisting on an "appropriate" age gap (another DCUM insanity). She can't blame you, because no matter how your husband pushed, he didn't and he couldn't make your son do what he didn't want to do. It's a moot point, because what's done is done, and your son needs to make the best of it. Your DIL's sudden decision to SAH is unfair at this point, but it's not up to you to sort this out.

I disagree this couple's problems stem from their children. It sounds they hooked up too early to know who they are and what they want from life and their partners. Again, probably NOT the parents' fault (huge eyeroll).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
And, OP, my husband's family comes from a conesrvative culture where divorce is frowned upon.

But it didn't stop my husband's brother from divorcing!

Counting on cultural values to stop a marriage from imploding because YOU are placing undue pressure on that marriage seems downright cruel, don't you think?

Are you ready to take responsibility for your role in making your son and your DIL unhappy? Do they deserve this from you? They only have one life to live, let them live it according to their lights. They have two babies for God's sake - I would be so resentful to miss that window of time to enjoy them!

You've had your turn already! Shut up now.

+1 I'm quite sure if your DIL is miserable enough and feels abandoned in her marriage she'll seriously consider divorce. I think her venting to you is a sure sign of it. In fact, I think her revealing her feelings to you was a warning to back off or the marriage could end. And if they do stay together but the damage is done and you continue your role as meddling MIL from hell, your grandkids will grow up in a loveless, joyless home. Congrats! You win! And by the way, the way you insinuate that your DIL made a bad decision by not wanting her children to be 5-6 years apart is very telling about you. So their childbearing plans didn't fit with your grand plan, puppeteer MIL? Get ready to start feeling the isolating shift where they come up with holiday plans that don't involve you, where they conveniently forget to tell you about school assemblies where families are invited, where birthdays are "friend parties" and not extended family. Don't kid yourself...your DIL is the boss and scheduler.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
And, OP, my husband's family comes from a conesrvative culture where divorce is frowned upon.

But it didn't stop my husband's brother from divorcing!

Counting on cultural values to stop a marriage from imploding because YOU are placing undue pressure on that marriage seems downright cruel, don't you think?

Are you ready to take responsibility for your role in making your son and your DIL unhappy? Do they deserve this from you? They only have one life to live, let them live it according to their lights. They have two babies for God's sake - I would be so resentful to miss that window of time to enjoy them!

You've had your turn already! Shut up now.

+1 I'm quite sure if your DIL is miserable enough and feels abandoned in her marriage she'll seriously consider divorce. I think her venting to you is a sure sign of it. In fact, I think her revealing her feelings to you was a warning to back off or the marriage could end. And if they do stay together but the damage is done and you continue your role as meddling MIL from hell, your grandkids will grow up in a loveless, joyless home. Congrats! You win! And by the way, the way you insinuate that your DIL made a bad decision by not wanting her children to be 5-6 years apart is very telling about you. So their childbearing plans didn't fit with your grand plan, puppeteer MIL? Get ready to start feeling the isolating shift where they come up with holiday plans that don't involve you, where they conveniently forget to tell you about school assemblies where families are invited, where birthdays are "friend parties" and not extended family. Don't kid yourself...your DIL is the boss and scheduler.

OMG, I can't help laughing. Are we talking about adults here? If they had "plans," why in the world didn't they stick to them? Holy shit, people. Have you ever heard of personal responsibility?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Background: My son is a 29 year old father of two who is married to a LOVELY girl who we truly love. He had a good stable job (still does) but my husband (and myself) really pushed him to get a terminal degree/JD. His employer also is interested in the prospect and its been implied a big promotion will come after he finishes although nothing written in contract. The night school life has been tough and my DIL and him have a 5 year old and a 9 month old. I originally thought she would wait to have a second child but she told us she wasn't comfortable with them being more then 4 or 5 years apart and yearned for them to be close in age. Of course I want more grandchildren and I am so blessed to have them both but the added child has made the tables turn into her wanting to stay home but its not feasible because of law school. So basically my son is gone 4 nights a week from 6:20 to 10:10 and gets home by 10:45. So for 4 week days a week she is on her own. The weekends are better but he still needs to study about 8 hours a weekend. She confided in me her marriage is handing on by a string and she resents all the pressure we put on him to complete the degree. She feels like his job is good enough without a terminal degree and we put unfair amounts of pressure on him to do this NOW. And 2.5 years ago when he got in we did encourage it because they only had one kid and he was already in his late 20s and we felt it was now or never. She said she will never get these years back with her kids and he's missing all of it. I keep telling her she will GREATLY benefit from this degree down the line but she can't see that right now. How can I encourage her to buck up and get through the next 18 months and then things will prove worthwhile. We want to babysit more when we can but she doesn't make us feel welcomed. How should I proceed?

Your son is an idiot. He has nothing in writing, he's paying for a law degree with no expectation of being reimbursed and no certainty of promotion? You had no business "really pushing him" to get a degree that's decreasing in value every day.

Stop trying to convince your DIL that you were right and she just needs to suck it up for another two years. Apologize to her for exerting so much pressure, empathize with how difficult this situation is for her, and ask what you can do now to make things easier for her. If things work out, great (but don't gloat or say "I told you so"). You might be right, but that's not much consolation to a woman who's stressed and lonely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:op here! to clarify he will very reinburst by his employer as long as he passes the bar so the financial strain is only temporary. I love the frozen meal idea, DIL is very complementary of my cooking so I think this is a good avenue. I also like the grocery giftcard idea, I can just leave that on the kitchen counter and not say anything. It's my culture (and DIL) to play a very involved role and divorce would never be an option for anyone. This is why I want to make things comfortable and release some tension.

But DIL is American, right? Was she raised here?

At some point she will have enough and her "American" culture is going to rise up, so do not discount divorce. It sounds like she is already starting to stand up for herself and her family.

+1. OPs idea that DIL is going to stick around and take whatever table scraps she and her son decide to throw her way is... gross. Very very gross.

OP, your DIL does NOT have to just take your crap for the rest of her life. Wise up and knock it off!

Just reading this makes me feel sick. OP you sound awful. I hope your DIL gets a divorce soon, she's already living the single mom lifestyle, at least she won't have to deal with your BS moving forward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:op here! to clarify he will very reinburst by his employer as long as he passes the bar so the financial strain is only temporary. I love the frozen meal idea, DIL is very complementary of my cooking so I think this is a good avenue. I also like the grocery giftcard idea, I can just leave that on the kitchen counter and not say anything. It's my culture (and DIL) to play a very involved role and divorce would never be an option for anyone. This is why I want to make things comfortable and release some tension.

But DIL is American, right? Was she raised here?

At some point she will have enough and her "American" culture is going to rise up, so do not discount divorce. It sounds like she is already starting to stand up for herself and her family.

+1. OPs idea that DIL is going to stick around and take whatever table scraps she and her son decide to throw her way is... gross. Very very gross.

OP, your DIL does NOT have to just take your crap for the rest of her life. Wise up and knock it off!

Just reading this makes me feel sick. OP you sound awful. I hope your DIL gets a divorce soon, she's already living the single mom lifestyle, at least she won't have to deal with your BS moving forward.

Well, on the bright side, if the DH gets the kids 2 weekends a month, he'll spend more time with them post-divorce than he does now.

[Anonymous]

I hope things work out for OP's son and DIL, but I am concerned that pushing a law degree, especially a night-school law degree, is going to turn out to be a big mistake. Law degrees are not worth what they used to be 30 years or so ago. My husband and I are both attorney's, one private practice and one federal government, and we are not encouraging our three teen-aged children to follow in our footsteps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm struck by the number of posts on DCUM that lay out a weird situation, then, when the posts respond that it's a weird situation, the OP responds that "we're from a different country and that's normal in our culture, so we're not going to change that." If you're from a different culture, I don't think it makes sense for you to seek advice from a generally American-born audience unless you're open to the way that the situation is typically handled within the American culture.

I mean, I get it if your post is "We're not from the U.S., but my DIL is, and I'd like some help in understanding her expectations." But if your response is just going to be "Oh, well, our culture is different, so none of your advice applies to us..." -- then maybe you should post on a message board that is based in your country of origin or specific to your culture and maybe they'd give you some advice or sympathy that you could use.

This comment is not particular to OP, but I feel like 15-25% of all the "family relationships" posts (and also a lot of the general parenting and relationship posts) boil down to this sort of problem.

I agree. The trouble is that, even with a certain awareness of differences, people still assume everyone sees basic things the same way they do. Most people have no idea how HUGE the cultural differences can be in this area. It took me many years of practically living with my opposite culture (like OP's) in-laws before I realized how everyone assumes their way is the only way and certainly the right way. And it feels like being dropped in Crazy Land.

There are two extreme ends of the spectrum--independent, high-boundary cultures versus hive mentality, low-boundary cultures. OP's way is normal for her culture, and she's simply trying to figure out how to help her DIL and son. She will always believe that she's right in pushing her son and DIL, and that the sacrifices will be worth it. Nothing we say from our cultural perspective will change that. She'll think the posts calling her a nightmare and too pushy and a troll are all by crazy or family-hating people. She just wants to find ways to make the DIL go along with things. She blames the DIL for having her own ideas about how she'd like her life to be, and even though she loves the DIL, from her point of view, the DIL is being weak and even a little selfish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm struck by the number of posts on DCUM that lay out a weird situation, then, when the posts respond that it's a weird situation, the OP responds that "we're from a different country and that's normal in our culture, so we're not going to change that." If you're from a different culture, I don't think it makes sense for you to seek advice from a generally American-born audience unless you're open to the way that the situation is typically handled within the American culture.

I mean, I get it if your post is "We're not from the U.S., but my DIL is, and I'd like some help in understanding her expectations." But if your response is just going to be "Oh, well, our culture is different, so none of your advice applies to us..." -- then maybe you should post on a message board that is based in your country of origin or specific to your culture and maybe they'd give you some advice or sympathy that you could use.

This comment is not particular to OP, but I feel like 15-25% of all the "family relationships" posts (and also a lot of the general parenting and relationship posts) boil down to this sort of problem.

I agree. The trouble is that, even with a certain awareness of differences, people still assume everyone sees basic things the same way they do. Most people have no idea how HUGE the cultural differences can be in this area. It took me many years of practically living with my opposite culture (like OP's) in-laws before I realized how everyone assumes their way is the only way and certainly the right way. And it feels like being dropped in Crazy Land.

There are two extreme ends of the spectrum--independent, high-boundary cultures versus hive mentality, low-boundary cultures. OP's way is normal for her culture, and she's simply trying to figure out how to help her DIL and son. She will always believe that she's right in pushing her son and DIL, and that the sacrifices will be worth it. Nothing we say from our cultural perspective will change that. She'll think the posts calling her a nightmare and too pushy and a troll are all by crazy or family-hating people. She just wants to find ways to make the DIL go along with things. She blames the DIL for having her own ideas about how she'd like her life to be, and even though she loves the DIL, from her point of view, the DIL is being weak and even a little selfish.

I hope all cultures from all over the world can start to raise daughters who are not doormats!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hope things work out for OP's son and DIL, but I am concerned that pushing a law degree, especially a night-school law degree, is going to turn out to be a big mistake. Law degrees are not worth what they used to be 30 years or so ago. My husband and I are both attorney's, one private practice and one federal government, and we are not encouraging our three teen-aged children to follow in our footsteps.

+1 I have an friend who is unemployed and has a law degree. The 90's are over. Law degrees have lost their value.