Video shows moments before North Miami Police shot unarmed man

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What the hell. Of course he should be fired, if not charged criminally. He's not a "good" cop if he can't remain calm, even in a non-urgent situation. Maybe once some cops get disciplined for this shit, they will start to take it seriously. As it is they can shoot at will and get zero consequences. This is like an unbelievable horror show that keeps happening over and over again.

+1

[Anonymous]

The problem with treating police brutality against communities of color as a "bad apple" problem is that it ignores how often entire groups of cops have been found to be sending each other racist emails or texts.

Here's just one example: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/30/us/san-francisco-police-orders-officers-to-complete-anti-harassment-class.html

But the city’s public defender and experts on criminal justice said the texts appeared to reveal a deep culture of bias in the 2,000-member force that contradicts the city’s image of tolerance and liberalism.

“These texts evidence a deep culture of racial hatred and animus against blacks, Latinos, gays and even South Asians,” Jeff Adachi, the public defender, said in an interview. “It can no longer be said to be an isolated problem.”

A number of police departments, including those in Miami and Los Angeles, have had problems with racist messages sent by their officers. Experts in criminal justice have debated how to address bias, both conscious and unconscious.

The text messages released Friday use crude and strongly disparaging language against blacks and other minorities and were discovered as part of an investigation into a rape charge against one of the officers.

They come a year after a scandal involving 14 officers who also exchanged racist messages. An attempt to fire some of the 14 was rejected by a Superior Court judge, who said the statute of limitation had expired. Most of those officers remain on the force. Of the three officers whose messages were released Friday, one has retired and two have resigned.

Law enforcement has a race problem. We can no longer ignore it, and something needs to give.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What the hell. Of course he should be fired, if not charged criminally. He's not a "good" cop if he can't remain calm, even in a non-urgent situation. Maybe once some cops get disciplined for this shit, they will start to take it seriously. As it is they can shoot at will and get zero consequences. This is like an unbelievable horror show that keeps happening over and over again.

OP here. I was trying to be balanced and give the cop in this case the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps I should rephrase that it is possible that he is a good person otherwise, or have good attributes, but if it was found that he took unjust actions in this case, he should be punished.

I'm just trying to counter the notion that there is a huge amount of racist, bad cops among the ranks. If that's the case, we (PoC) are all screwed. Instead, I think there are some specific strategies that could be implemented to decrease the likelihood of police brutality/unfair treatment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For every egregious police act, can we also post every single good police act that occurred at that very same moment in time across our fifty states? Just for proportionality? I'm guessing if this is criminal--it's on video, will be investigated, and justice will be done. Will all the good police who were doing good work at the same time get commendations? Doubtful.

But police are supposed to do good things and act appropriately. It shouldn't be newsworthy.

+1 . I've never seen such a profession where people constantly feel the need to preface apologies for costly and lousy behavior with ' there are good cops out there' , 'not at all cops are bad' and blah blah . Fucking disgusting

Well, let's see. As a teacher, I can fully sympathize. We don't need medals in our field (sometimes body armor -but that's a different story), but I would like the attacks from the public to stop.

the problem? We've lost our need to "police" ourselves - no self-responsibility - and expect public servants to step in. But when a public servant makes a mistake, it's a Salem Witch Hunt. When Johnny comes to us hungry and dirty and we can't get him to read at grade level, it's our fault.

Police see repeat offenders and deal with dangerous situations on a daily basis. MOST of them want to help society, as do teachers. But if you're assigned a beat that's not exactly Mayberry, that beat will harden you and shape your views - sometimes in dangerous ways.

So yes, the public wants accountability, but it goes both ways. Let's say school is trying hard to get a 9th grader to jump to three reading levels and gives her a special class for support, a reading specialist, and extra time spent with teachers at lunch and after school. great, right? But when she goes home, there's no food on the table and she faces abuse each night. We can call CPS and involve the school psychologist, but we CANNOT undo the damage done at home. She cannot learn when she's emotionally and physically at risk.

Imagine how that affects the teachers emotionally and mentally. And then, multiply that 1 by 50 - b/c in schools where most kids live in poverty, MOST will be reading below grade level.

Yes, we are in it to help, but when societal ills are crammed down our throats, we are helpless. So we either burn out and leave (Look at the attrition rate of new teachers.) or look for "greener pastures."

Put a cop in a beat where all s/he sees are the worst case scenarios day after day, and what do you expect?

So you are ok with what happened in this video? Keep being ok with it because all that dies it put innocent cops in danger of vigilantes. There is no win for anyone when people defend and excuse actions like this. Even the most jaded cop should be able to get this situation right.

If you're going to respond, then back up your claims.

First of all, I said NOTHING about supporting this man's behavior. It's tragic. I've worked in schools with school community-based programs. So I know how sad and difficult it is to work with children who can barely speak or walk. WHERE did I say that I supported what occurred?

I did, however, chime in about root causes. But apparently, you're not sharp enough to understand that certain careers are highly stressful and that SITUATIONS shape us.

A JADED cop will not always make the right decisions. That's my point. You're so free to share your feelings, aren't you? Well then, please tell me you're a public employee - a social worker or a psychologist working for a health center or a pupil personnel worker.

But unless you're in a burnout field, I think this conversation needs to end. You just don't get it, and you won't EVER get it either.

Many of the officers implicated in unjustified shootings were relatively new to the job, not jaded after many years of nightly shoot-outs or whatever you are imagining. I am a np and do work in a "burn-out field."

+1000
NOT ONLY THAT BUT MOST OF THE PEOPLE DECRYING POLICE BRUTALITY ARE CALLING FOR BETTER TRAINING AND SUPPORT FOR POLICE
DUHHHHHHH

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the black man is laying on the ground with his arms clearly in the air with nothing in them, the white guy has something in his hands, and the police shoot the black man. SMH.

+1 That's exactly what I just said to my DH! This is why people are pissed. I have cops in my family. I know they put their lives on the line. But stupid, racist cops like this pisses me off, and gives all cops a bad name.

+2 What I can't understand is why police officers and their leadership don't drum guys like this out of the force. If you were in a profession that you thought was misunderstood, wouldn't you want the bad apples out?

+3 And folks still want to debate with BLM folks that all lives matter. Disgusting!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a teacher too. It doesn't give me some high ground on how to discuss. I understand and applaud your outrage over each incident. No police abuse is acceptable. However, i think that the nonstop posting of police violations has made the rate seem far more than it actually is. It is not bad to occasionally put these incidents in perspective as they relate to non incidents in a country as vast as ours. There are bad apple surgeons, bad apple judges, ba apple politicians, bad apple soldiers, and yes bad apple teachers. But working with teachers - you would be indignant if all teachers were painted with the brush of the few awful ones, and i think in this past year our society has come close to accepting treating police as a whole as an abusive class. Which is not supported by the fact of all the good policing that happens every day. When you talk about institutional problems I am listening to your ideas for solutions. Some of your proposals sound like they will help law enforcement be better at reaching its goal -to protect us and civil society.

We are not treating the police as a whole as an abusive class. If you would apply your same logic you would realize that there are only a few bad apples doing that as well. But in your double standard, the public servants who carry guns and have a duty to protect the public receive more deference than an internet poster exercising their first amendment rights.

The fact is that last year 38 unarmed black people were shot and killed by police. That's a lot, certainly enough to describe as a big problem. If you feel that the problem has been overemphasized, maybe it's because you don't think something should be done to prevent this. Maybe you think you have to break a few eggs and in this case the number is 38.

But to me the level of attention should be whatever is necessary until the police demonstrate substantial effort to fix the problem.

+1. OP here weighing in. I don't think the strategy of trying to out-root so-called "bad cops" will work, since they the officers implicated may not be all bad cops. The notion of good cops and bad cops is overly simplistic, IMO, and makes the problem sound more black-or-white than it really is. Also, this call for firing "racist cops" puts many on the defensive who see this as a witch hunt.

Sure, there are a few outright bigots within the ranks, who should be out-rooted. However, I think this is a bigger problem of people acting on their implicit biases when dealing with AAs, particularly low-SES black men. And I'm not just talking about the shootings that have been in the news recently--I'm talking about the more common, harder to measure, everyday indignities that AAs deal with--being more likely to get pulled over, more likely to be treated suspiciously, roughly, or aggressively during stops, etc.

The phrase "we're all a little bit racist," while tongue in cheek, has some truth. Anyone remember the social science research presented during Brown vs. Board that showed that young black children had a preference for white dolls over black dolls? Race-based stereotyping, biases, etc. are something *none* of us--black, white or other--are immune to. Now, when some of us actually have guns, it seems reasonable to think that acting on these implicit biases could lead to unfair--or even lethal--treatment.

It sounds like in this case, if the behavior therapist's account is accurate, the officer knew he made a mistake, as he responded "I don't know" when asked why he shot this guy. I'm not a legal expert, but I don't think this officer should necessarily be fired, if an investigation reveals that he is otherwise a good cop who perhaps made a mistake in the moment in this case.

My wish list for LEOs:
-better pay and higher standards (to encourage a higher yield of solid, high-quality LEO applicants),
-better access to quality, evidence-based mental health care for officers.
-better training on awareness & management of implicit biases
-more funding for and emphasis on community policing

Everything you said + THAT COP SHOULD BE FIRED...

[Anonymous]

I am not saying what the officer in this case did is right (though give him a hearing) but I do give police in general support. They are public servants, but the job they do merits support and respect. We will continue to see individual acts forever. Its not the goal, its reality. The only change will be institutional and that is not up to individual police to implement systemic changes so put the pressure on politicians and give the police support for the difficult, brave job most do every day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am not saying what the officer in this case did is right (though give him a hearing) but I do give police in general support. They are public servants, but the job they do merits support and respect. We will continue to see individual acts forever. Its not the goal, its reality. The only change will be institutional and that is not up to individual police to implement systemic changes so put the pressure on politicians and give the police support for the difficult, brave job most do every day.

These "individual acts" point to a systemic problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am not saying what the officer in this case did is right (though give him a hearing) but I do give police in general support. They are public servants, but the job they do merits support and respect. We will continue to see individual acts forever. Its not the goal, its reality. The only change will be institutional and that is not up to individual police to implement systemic changes so put the pressure on politicians and give the police support for the difficult, brave job most do every day.

Just stop. You are papering over this awful, systemic pattern of police brutality and abuse with platitudes about how most cops are not culpable. It is up to every cop, police organization, union, politician and citizen to root this problem out, hold individual officers responsible AND address the culture that allows this to continue.

Imagine if a plane full of passengers crashed every day due to crappy air traffic controllers and I came on here spouting nonsense about supporting the air traffic controllers in their difficult work because most of them do a great job under stressful conditions. That is no comfort or help to the families whose loved ones are in smithereens or to those people who need to get on a plane tomorrow and have no confidence in the air traffic control industry.

It needs to STOP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am not saying what the officer in this case did is right (though give him a hearing) but I do give police in general support. They are public servants, but the job they do merits support and respect. We will continue to see individual acts forever. Its not the goal, its reality. The only change will be institutional and that is not up to individual police to implement systemic changes so put the pressure on politicians and give the police support for the difficult, brave job most do every day.

If police officers were EVER held liable for their actions, these "individual acts" would dry up in a hot second. The individual acts are just symptoms of a system that values Black lives so low, that we don't hold police officers accountable for snuffing them out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not saying what the officer in this case did is right (though give him a hearing) but I do give police in general support. They are public servants, but the job they do merits support and respect. We will continue to see individual acts forever. Its not the goal, its reality. The only change will be institutional and that is not up to individual police to implement systemic changes so put the pressure on politicians and give the police support for the difficult, brave job most do every day.

If police officers were EVER held liable for their actions, these "individual acts" would dry up in a hot second. The individual acts are just symptoms of a system that values Black lives so low, that we don't hold police officers accountable for snuffing them out.

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ahhhh you people are so frustrating. A therapist was trying to help an autistic adult and was shot! Why do we need to bring up the "there are good cops" argument? I know there are good cops, I am friends with one of them. But this THERAPIST was trying to help a man who ran away, but because he was black he was shot. The cop straight up told him he didn't know why he shot him. They then proceeded to put BOTH of them in handcuffs!! This is not ok folks!! I imagine the autistic man will have a hard time not freaking out around cops now. Fantastic.

Then think critically, too. This was another tragic incident. But unless you get to the ROOT of the problem, police brutality will not float off. If a child is raped repeatedly at night, don't you think that cycle will continue somehow - either ending in self-destruction or in harming others.

When a cop gets to that level, it's b/c s/he has seen too much. Psychological supports should be ongoing for people in high-stress occupations. If this cop dealt mainly with AA males who were dangerous, for example, that's what will shape his brain. not saying it's right - just saying, folks - Get to to the root.

And you would agree that the same should be said for AA who deal on a daily basis with cops who harass them even when they haven't done anything - that shapes their brains as well, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ahhhh you people are so frustrating. A therapist was trying to help an autistic adult and was shot! Why do we need to bring up the "there are good cops" argument? I know there are good cops, I am friends with one of them. But this THERAPIST was trying to help a man who ran away, but because he was black he was shot. The cop straight up told him he didn't know why he shot him. They then proceeded to put BOTH of them in handcuffs!! This is not ok folks!! I imagine the autistic man will have a hard time not freaking out around cops now. Fantastic.

Then think critically, too. This was another tragic incident. But unless you get to the ROOT of the problem, police brutality will not float off. If a child is raped repeatedly at night, don't you think that cycle will continue somehow - either ending in self-destruction or in harming others.

When a cop gets to that level, it's b/c s/he has seen too much. Psychological supports should be ongoing for people in high-stress occupations. If this cop dealt mainly with AA males who were dangerous, for example, that's what will shape his brain. not saying it's right - just saying, folks - Get to to the root.

And you would agree that the same should be said for AA who deal on a daily basis with cops who harass them even when they haven't done anything - that shapes their brains as well, right?

certainly

It's a vicious cycle.

Sadly, police ride-alongs are no longer the norm. But if any of you stayed with a cop for a few hours one night in the city you wouldn't be posting here. 

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ahhhh you people are so frustrating. A therapist was trying to help an autistic adult and was shot! Why do we need to bring up the "there are good cops" argument? I know there are good cops, I am friends with one of them. But this THERAPIST was trying to help a man who ran away, but because he was black he was shot. The cop straight up told him he didn't know why he shot him. They then proceeded to put BOTH of them in handcuffs!! This is not ok folks!! I imagine the autistic man will have a hard time not freaking out around cops now. Fantastic.

Then think critically, too. This was another tragic incident. But unless you get to the ROOT of the problem, police brutality will not float off. If a child is raped repeatedly at night, don't you think that cycle will continue somehow - either ending in self-destruction or in harming others.

When a cop gets to that level, it's b/c s/he has seen too much. Psychological supports should be ongoing for people in high-stress occupations. If this cop dealt mainly with AA males who were dangerous, for example, that's what will shape his brain. not saying it's right - just saying, folks - Get to to the root.

Oh OK, I get it, you think that cop shot him because he wasn't hugged enough?

Lady, get real. Stop with the raped children and hungry children comparison. Kids don't have a choice of households and there's no option not to eat. Cops are adults. No one HAS to be a cop. You feel burnt out? Find another job, no one handcuffed you to the uniform. They volunteered for the job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For every egregious police act, can we also post every single good police act that occurred at that very same moment in time across our fifty states? Just for proportionality? I'm guessing if this is criminal--it's on video, will be investigated, and justice will be done. Will all the good police who were doing good work at the same time get commendations? Doubtful.

But police are supposed to do good things and act appropriately. It shouldn't be newsworthy.

Plus 1 million!!!