Are charters keeping you in DC - or are they holding back your neighborhood DCPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:11:47 is completely naive. Look at the appreciation in Ward 3 as opposed to the rest of the city and tell me that charter schools haven't made a difference. We would have left for MD or VA if we had to stay in Ward 6 middle and high schools. Now that we are happily in a charter, you can enjoy your Ward 3 IB schools like Wilson in peace.

The "all together now, everyone jump!" thing can work in elementary, but not that many high ses families are willing to sacrifice their child's chances of getting into a good college (and succeeding there) once you get to middle and high school.

your naïve if you reduce this entire argument to real estate values. that has to be the most tired persistent argument on this entire board.

The changing demographics of the city outside of Ward 3 are also an indicator, if you don't like using real estate values as a measure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We're only in PreK3 right now, and I would absolutely pick our DCPS (West) if only they had Spanish. That is literally the only reason we are at our charter instead. Long term, I really think that DCPS schools are going to get better, and maybe that is a direct function of charter competition.

Spanish immersion? Or Spanish classes / exposure?

Our daycare was immersion, and the charter is half day Spanish, half day English. Honestly, if West even had Spanish classes or as an aftercare thing, I would probably switch over in a second. I just don't want my kid to lose this while he's still so little, since we aren't native speakers and Spanish was a happy accident in the first place.

Our kid is at West, and they do have Spanish classes as one of the rotating extras. There's a full time Spanish teacher. We're not dead set on immersion, but the one class is not really enough to satisfy us. We might be able to piggyback on the new aftercare stuff going on to add Spanish club or aftercare. That and music would be awesome. Even if you don't end up switching over, it'd be great if you mentioned it to the principal or PTA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We're only in PreK3 right now, and I would absolutely pick our DCPS (West) if only they had Spanish. That is literally the only reason we are at our charter instead. Long term, I really think that DCPS schools are going to get better, and maybe that is a direct function of charter competition.

Spanish immersion? Or Spanish classes / exposure?

Our daycare was immersion, and the charter is half day Spanish, half day English. Honestly, if West even had Spanish classes or as an aftercare thing, I would probably switch over in a second. I just don't want my kid to lose this while he's still so little, since we aren't native speakers and Spanish was a happy accident in the first place.

Commitment to continuing language instruction (or Montessori) is definitely one of the benefits of a robust charter sector, particularly in DC. But for every one of you who would be willing to send a child to West but for this other priority you have, there are half a dozen people who will refer to their IB school (that they have usually never even set foot inside) as "not an option for us" without explaining what that means to them. That's the frustration that many are speaking to.

Longterm, I do think that the existence of charters will contribute to overall improvement in public schools in DC. Not because DCPS will step up its game because a charter comes to town, but because even DCPS can see that things like immersion, experiential learning, etc. are important to this cohort of parents in DC, along with test scores. Also, there will not be enough charter seats for everybody, but people will list some DCPS schools "as safeties" and then will not get in anywhere else. Obviously, some people will always move, but enrollment is up something like 10% from 4 years ago. Not all those people are going to move.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:11:47 is completely naive. Look at the appreciation in Ward 3 as opposed to the rest of the city and tell me that charter schools haven't made a difference. We would have left for MD or VA if we had to stay in Ward 6 middle and high schools. Now that we are happily in a charter, you can enjoy your Ward 3 IB schools like Wilson in peace.

The "all together now, everyone jump!" thing can work in elementary, but not that many high ses families are willing to sacrifice their child's chances of getting into a good college (and succeeding there) once you get to middle and high school.

your naïve if you reduce this entire argument to real estate values. that has to be the most tired persistent argument on this entire board.

The changing demographics of the city outside of Ward 3 are also an indicator, if you don't like using real estate values as a measure.

demographics not changing as rapidly for single families as they are for other groups. more young professionals have settled in DC but the school population impact has a long way to go. Whatever demographic changes you imply, DC is still just under 50% black and 10% Hispanic and both groups are represented disproportionately high to the overall public school population (67% & 17%). 3/4 of DC public school students qualify for free and reduced lunch.

I raise this as emphatically neutral and non-judgmental as possible -- a lot of posters here need to get out of their bubbles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:11:47 is completely naive. Look at the appreciation in Ward 3 as opposed to the rest of the city and tell me that charter schools haven't made a difference. We would have left for MD or VA if we had to stay in Ward 6 middle and high schools. Now that we are happily in a charter, you can enjoy your Ward 3 IB schools like Wilson in peace.

The "all together now, everyone jump!" thing can work in elementary, but not that many high ses families are willing to sacrifice their child's chances of getting into a good college (and succeeding there) once you get to middle and high school.

your naïve if you reduce this entire argument to real estate values. that has to be the most tired persistent argument on this entire board.

The changing demographics of the city outside of Ward 3 are also an indicator, if you don't like using real estate values as a measure.

demographics not changing as rapidly for single families as they are for other groups. more young professionals have settled in DC but the school population impact has a long way to go. Whatever demographic changes you imply, DC is still just under 50% black and 10% Hispanic and both groups are represented disproportionately high to the overall public school population (67% & 17%). 3/4 of DC public school students qualify for free and reduced lunch.

I raise this as emphatically neutral and non-judgmental as possible -- a lot of posters here need to get out of their bubbles.

Who needs to get out of their bubbles? What bubbles?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If there were no charters, I think we would have a majority middle/high SES elementary school (Watkins). The demographics exist in the neighborhood but so many of the kids end up somewhere else starting in pk3, pk4 and K. I don't think the neighborhood would have gentrified to this extent without charters, but I would love to see them abolished tomorrow and see how things shake out. Sadly that ship has sailed.

There would be even less children on the Hill over 3rd grade if the charters hadn't happened. 15 years ago, everyone split for private, parochial and many moved to other parts of the city. Since E-H and Eastern still aren't viable for most middle/high SES families, you've only got one too small middle school in SH. Thank goodness for Latin and BASIS.

We detrimentally relied on BASIS, decided not to move to Pyle Whitman the year before it opened (had found a great affordable house), and went, but they pushed our SN kids out. Moving out of the city most likely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:11:47 is completely naive. Look at the appreciation in Ward 3 as opposed to the rest of the city and tell me that charter schools haven't made a difference. We would have left for MD or VA if we had to stay in Ward 6 middle and high schools. Now that we are happily in a charter, you can enjoy your Ward 3 IB schools like Wilson in peace.

The "all together now, everyone jump!" thing can work in elementary, but not that many high ses families are willing to sacrifice their child's chances of getting into a good college (and succeeding there) once you get to middle and high school.

your naïve if you reduce this entire argument to real estate values. that has to be the most tired persistent argument on this entire board.

The changing demographics of the city outside of Ward 3 are also an indicator, if you don't like using real estate values as a measure.

demographics not changing as rapidly for single families as they are for other groups. more young professionals have settled in DC but the school population impact has a long way to go. Whatever demographic changes you imply, DC is still just under 50% black and 10% Hispanic and both groups are represented disproportionately high to the overall public school population (67% & 17%). 3/4 of DC public school students qualify for free and reduced lunch.

I raise this as emphatically neutral and non-judgmental as possible -- a lot of posters here need to get out of their bubbles.

A long way to go toward what? And what's a single family?

I'm not sure what measurement you're using, but the demographic shift toward families with educated parents is happening very rapidly.

http://apps.urban.org/features/ourchangingcity/schools/index.html#index

I dug up this old report from Urban Institute (I think it's from 2014) and it credits universal pre-kindergarten as the factor that's keeping families in the district, and I think that's probably about right. As much as people look down their noses at those who want "free daycare," it's pretty much what gets new parents into the schools in the first place.

[Anonymous]

This is not an "either or" question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:11:47 is completely naive. Look at the appreciation in Ward 3 as opposed to the rest of the city and tell me that charter schools haven't made a difference. We would have left for MD or VA if we had to stay in Ward 6 middle and high schools. Now that we are happily in a charter, you can enjoy your Ward 3 IB schools like Wilson in peace.

The "all together now, everyone jump!" thing can work in elementary, but not that many high ses families are willing to sacrifice their child's chances of getting into a good college (and succeeding there) once you get to middle and high school.

your naïve if you reduce this entire argument to real estate values. that has to be the most tired persistent argument on this entire board.

The changing demographics of the city outside of Ward 3 are also an indicator, if you don't like using real estate values as a measure.

demographics not changing as rapidly for single families as they are for other groups. more young professionals have settled in DC but the school population impact has a long way to go. Whatever demographic changes you imply, DC is still just under 50% black and 10% Hispanic and both groups are represented disproportionately high to the overall public school population (67% & 17%). 3/4 of DC public school students qualify for free and reduced lunch.

I raise this as emphatically neutral and non-judgmental as possible -- a lot of posters here need to get out of their bubbles.

A long way to go toward what? And what's a single family?

I'm not sure what measurement you're using, but the demographic shift toward families with educated parents is happening very rapidly.

http://apps.urban.org/features/ourchangingcity/schools/index.html#index

I dug up this old report from Urban Institute (I think it's from 2014) and it credits universal pre-kindergarten as the factor that's keeping families in the district, and I think that's probably about right. As much as people look down their noses at those who want "free daycare," it's pretty much what gets new parents into the schools in the first place.

no -- the evidence points largely to unmarried younger professionals.

http://districtmeasured.com/2015/02/18/who-lives-where-in-the-district/

There's no large influx of young families, only families formed from this demographic. I agree that more families are staying and giving DC a shot
but the evidence doesn't support a large growth of families in DC

[Anonymous]

Our charters, Yu Ying and now DCI are the ONLY reasons we felt able to stay in DC to raise our kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:11:47 is completely naive. Look at the appreciation in Ward 3 as opposed to the rest of the city and tell me that charter schools haven't made a difference. We would have left for MD or VA if we had to stay in Ward 6 middle and high schools. Now that we are happily in a charter, you can enjoy your Ward 3 IB schools like Wilson in peace.

The "all together now, everyone jump!" thing can work in elementary, but not that many high ses families are willing to sacrifice their child's chances of getting into a good college (and succeeding there) once you get to middle and high school.

your naïve if you reduce this entire argument to real estate values. that has to be the most tired persistent argument on this entire board.

The changing demographics of the city outside of Ward 3 are also an indicator, if you don't like using real estate values as a measure.

demographics not changing as rapidly for single families as they are for other groups. more young professionals have settled in DC but the school population impact has a long way to go. Whatever demographic changes you imply, DC is still just under 50% black and 10% Hispanic and both groups are represented disproportionately high to the overall public school population (67% & 17%). 3/4 of DC public school students qualify for free and reduced lunch.

I raise this as emphatically neutral and non-judgmental as possible -- a lot of posters here need to get out of their bubbles.

To this data, I'd add the fact that the plurality of school-aged student (i.e., more than 50%) live in to wards: 7 & 8. Give that a thought.

[Anonymous]

The 2010 census had 30K out of 74K school-aged kids in wards 7 and 8. So, disproportionate, but not a majority.

Also, those kids now disproportionately choose to attend charters and so are underrepresented in DCPS which, for kindergarten, is now nearly 20% white and under 60% AA. (Compared to 6%/80% ten years ago.) So, demographic change in DCPS is slower than the city overall, but still pretty dramatic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We moved to Petworth when our oldest was 2 and are pleased with the quality of the nearby DCPS school (it was not our IB but was closer than our IB because of the boundaries.) Many couples we knew in our Adams Morgan days have moved to Arlington or Mo Co but most of them also had family or worked in those areas. Many other friends have stayed and we are among those who aren't at a charter (Inspired Teaching, Munde Verde etc.)
I don't feel that that charters and OOB is holding back our two local neighborhood schools. They both have long waitlists! If anything, more and more middle class professionals are doing the lottery, doing preschool here, visiting an array of DCPS schools and charters and realizing the potential that exists here in the city. Instead of dismissing the local schools out of hand and moving.

Any post like this and the OPs is discredited. The OOB lottery is the same in this argument as a charter. You are not attending your IB school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We moved to Petworth when our oldest was 2 and are pleased with the quality of the nearby DCPS school (it was not our IB but was closer than our IB because of the boundaries.) Many couples we knew in our Adams Morgan days have moved to Arlington or Mo Co but most of them also had family or worked in those areas. Many other friends have stayed and we are among those who aren't at a charter (Inspired Teaching, Munde Verde etc.)
I don't feel that that charters and OOB is holding back our two local neighborhood schools. They both have long waitlists! If anything, more and more middle class professionals are doing the lottery, doing preschool here, visiting an array of DCPS schools and charters and realizing the potential that exists here in the city. Instead of dismissing the local schools out of hand and moving.

Any post like this and the OPs is discredited. The OOB lottery is the same in this argument as a charter. You are not attending your IB school.

How so? OP said the school her child attends is CLOSER than her IB school. A true definition of neighborhood school if you ask me, as it literally resides in her neighborhood. And you are faulting her because of a mere technically that her child school lies outside of the boundary? Grow up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We moved to Petworth when our oldest was 2 and are pleased with the quality of the nearby DCPS school (it was not our IB but was closer than our IB because of the boundaries.) Many couples we knew in our Adams Morgan days have moved to Arlington or Mo Co but most of them also had family or worked in those areas. Many other friends have stayed and we are among those who aren't at a charter (Inspired Teaching, Munde Verde etc.)
I don't feel that that charters and OOB is holding back our two local neighborhood schools. They both have long waitlists! If anything, more and more middle class professionals are doing the lottery, doing preschool here, visiting an array of DCPS schools and charters and realizing the potential that exists here in the city. Instead of dismissing the local schools out of hand and moving.

Any post like this and the OPs is discredited. The OOB lottery is the same in this argument as a charter. You are not attending your IB school.

How so? OP said the school her child attends is CLOSER than her IB school. A true definition of neighborhood school if you ask me, as it literally resides in her neighborhood. And you are faulting her because of a mere technically that her child school lies outside of the boundary? Grow up.

No, your neighborhood school is assigned to you. Boundaries are drawn, I don't get to make them up. If I want to be in a different Ward 2 vs 6 (oh god, please), or even Virginia - I don't get to "decide".

She does not go to her IB. She is OOB. Example, if the OOB school she attends has a different feeder pattern than her IB neighbor school - she doesn't necessarily get to pull the "grow up" card to go to the middle school.

This is what happens when you think short term at the ECE level.