Are charters keeping you in DC - or are they holding back your neighborhood DCPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vote here!

Definitely the latter camp here. We go to a WOTP DCPS but live in ward 1. I'm pretty sure if all the high SES kids went to our IB school, we'd have a great walkable option.

The irony that you make this about charters, when you go to another school OOB.

Maybe say, get rid of the OOB lottery. Why should you get to go to a WOTP school when you don't live there?

+1. What a great example of hypocresy.

OP here and I agree we are hypocritices. But that still doesn't preclue us from wishing we could go to our neighborhood school, so let me clarify that I think both the OOB process and charters are harming some neighborhood schools that could really stand on their own if motivated/connected/afraid-of-poors families had no choice but to attend them.

So...very...confused. You CAN go to your neighborhood school. You simply choose not to. Because you have the means (time, money, familial support) to schlep your kid to WOTP schools. People with means will always have a choice; to move, to pay for private schools, etc. The people without means do not have choices.

And what would you have happen to the people who live in areas where the schools are not good?

+1. Geez OP. If you want to go tour neighborhood school, go to it. How do you think parents changed their neighborhood schools so they became more desirable? Parents banded together and went in. If you get enough of a group that are sick of commuting and willing to do the hard work, you can do it. That's how Deal, Brent, Maury, etc., turned.

[Anonymous]

I don't want a charter/DCPS war. But I think it's hard to dispute that DC's very high family-age real estate demand means that people are moving in to many neighborhoods regardless of schools in Wards 1, 4, and 5 and elsewhere as well.

If those areas did not have accessible charter schools, the demographics of neighborhood schools would likely already have changed enough to make gentrifiers (not pejorative) comfortable in those schools, and would continue to change up the grades as these families engage with DCPS grade by grade and school by school.

Judge the benefits and downsides of a situation without a "charter safety valve" in a hot real estate market for yourself, but I think it is an accurate indicator of what would have happened but for charter availability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If there were no charters and no OOB then our neighborhood school would without any doubt be excellent.

It's currently a good school with a great principal, but results suffer in the testing grades because of high poverty and the problems associated with it. If all the high(er) SES families in the neighborhood (really the majority now) sent their kids there the school would be more diverse, there would be more involved parents and everyone would benefit.

There's this fallacy here on DCUM that a charter somehow is hugely superior to DCPS, when in many cases the notable differences (aside from some specialist focus) is the higher SES of the students. Our local DCPS schools (Langley and Seaton) don't differ significantly in terms of teaching staff, extra curriculars, resources or buildings from any of the HRCS I toured.

At the middle school level, the charters are indeed better. Much better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't want a charter/DCPS war. But I think it's hard to dispute that DC's very high family-age real estate demand means that people are moving in to many neighborhoods regardless of schools in Wards 1, 4, and 5 and elsewhere as well.

If those areas did not have accessible charter schools, the demographics of neighborhood schools would likely already have changed enough to make gentrifiers (not pejorative) comfortable in those schools, and would continue to change up the grades as these families engage with DCPS grade by grade and school by school.

Judge the benefits and downsides of a situation without a "charter safety valve" in a hot real estate market for yourself, but I think it is an accurate indicator of what would have happened but for charter availability.

Your logic is faulty. Yes, high SES are moving into areas with sub-optimal schools. But you're ignoring that one of the reasons that people can and do make that choice is because of school choice (OOB and charter). You can't just assume away that little fact and then conclude that all of those gentrifiers would make a school better. But would they even be there? For me, the answer would be "no".

I'm a perfect example of why your logic doesn't work. I have lived EOTP for a very long time. Then I had a kid. Then my house began to feel very small and we knew we'd eventually have to upsize. When I had a kid about ready to enter PK3 we got very, very lucky and ended up at a HRCS mere blocks from our house. So we bought a new, larger house in the same neighborhood. But because spouse and I both make very good money we had choices. To be blunt, our budget for a new house was @$2 million. We didn't want to spend that much, but that was the budget if we needed to spend it in order to get quality schools. All of JKLM was well within reach (although it sure doesn't buy as much house as it does in Ward 6). If we had not gotten lucky in the lottery we would have purchased IB for JKLM (VA and MD are not in my DNA). Call me a bitch if you want, but I have the means to live where I desire and neither liberal guilt nor any other factor would prevent me from providing what I think is best for my kid. I love my neighborhood. And I think that having high SES people in my neighborhood keeps housing prices up and attracts others, some of which are in fact willing to give the IB school a shot. And that's great. But don't confuse an apparent tipping point in one small area with the reality across DC. If

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vote here!

Definitely the latter camp here. We go to a WOTP DCPS but live in ward 1. I'm pretty sure if all the high SES kids went to our IB school, we'd have a great walkable option.

The irony that you make this about charters, when you go to another school OOB.

Maybe say, get rid of the OOB lottery. Why should you get to go to a WOTP school when you don't live there?

+1. What a great example of hypocresy.

OP here and I agree we are hypocritices. But that still doesn't preclue us from wishing we could go to our neighborhood school, so let me clarify that I think both the OOB process and charters are harming some neighborhood schools that could really stand on their own if motivated/connected/afraid-of-poors families had no choice but to attend them.

So...very...confused. You CAN go to your neighborhood school. You simply choose not to. Because you have the means (time, money, familial support) to schlep your kid to WOTP schools. People with means will always have a choice; to move, to pay for private schools, etc. The people without means do not have choices.

And what would you have happen to the people who live in areas where the schools are not good?

+1. Geez OP. If you want to go tour neighborhood school, go to it. How do you think parents changed their neighborhood schools so they became more desirable? Parents banded together and went in. If you get enough of a group that are sick of commuting and willing to do the hard work, you can do it. That's how Deal, Brent, Maury, etc., turned.

And you don't have to wait until your child is school age to start helping your IB. There are several families with infants and toddlers helping our PTA because they want to make it a strong school when their children enroll. This is really great. I'm glad that people are seriously considering their IB schools.

[Anonymous]

We're at a charter (1st grade) but would have no problem sending my kid to the IB elementary school so charters didn't necessarily keep me in the District. Where it personally gets tricky (or would get tricky) is middle school.

[Anonymous]

I will agree with the poster above - part of the hot housing market is due to the school choice. We bought on Capitol Hill at a time when it was still possible to lottery into Brent OOB; unfortunately that ship had sailed by the time our child was old enough for the lottery. There are many, many families like ours who (perhaps naively) bought the homes we wanted and crossed our fingers that we would have lottery luck. For us it worked out, although there are many families in our area of the Hill who eventually left for more stable schools.

[Anonymous]

We're only in PreK3 right now, and I would absolutely pick our DCPS (West) if only they had Spanish. That is literally the only reason we are at our charter instead. Long term, I really think that DCPS schools are going to get better, and maybe that is a direct function of charter competition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We're only in PreK3 right now, and I would absolutely pick our DCPS (West) if only they had Spanish. That is literally the only reason we are at our charter instead. Long term, I really think that DCPS schools are going to get better, and maybe that is a direct function of charter competition.

Spanish immersion? Or Spanish classes / exposure?

[Anonymous]

11:47 is completely naive. Look at the appreciation in Ward 3 as opposed to the rest of the city and tell me that charter schools haven't made a difference. We would have left for MD or VA if we had to stay in Ward 6 middle and high schools. Now that we are happily in a charter, you can enjoy your Ward 3 IB schools like Wilson in peace.

The "all together now, everyone jump!" thing can work in elementary, but not that many high ses families are willing to sacrifice their child's chances of getting into a good college (and succeeding there) once you get to middle and high school.

[Anonymous]

We moved to Petworth when our oldest was 2 and are pleased with the quality of the nearby DCPS school (it was not our IB but was closer than our IB because of the boundaries.) Many couples we knew in our Adams Morgan days have moved to Arlington or Mo Co but most of them also had family or worked in those areas. Many other friends have stayed and we are among those who aren't at a charter (Inspired Teaching, Munde Verde etc.)
I don't feel that that charters and OOB is holding back our two local neighborhood schools. They both have long waitlists! If anything, more and more middle class professionals are doing the lottery, doing preschool here, visiting an array of DCPS schools and charters and realizing the potential that exists here in the city. Instead of dismissing the local schools out of hand and moving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:11:47 is completely naive. Look at the appreciation in Ward 3 as opposed to the rest of the city and tell me that charter schools haven't made a difference. We would have left for MD or VA if we had to stay in Ward 6 middle and high schools. Now that we are happily in a charter, you can enjoy your Ward 3 IB schools like Wilson in peace.

The "all together now, everyone jump!" thing can work in elementary, but not that many high ses families are willing to sacrifice their child's chances of getting into a good college (and succeeding there) once you get to middle and high school.

your naïve if you reduce this entire argument to real estate values. that has to be the most tired persistent argument on this entire board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We moved to Petworth when our oldest was 2 and are pleased with the quality of the nearby DCPS school (it was not our IB but was closer than our IB because of the boundaries.) Many couples we knew in our Adams Morgan days have moved to Arlington or Mo Co but most of them also had family or worked in those areas. Many other friends have stayed and we are among those who aren't at a charter (Inspired Teaching, Munde Verde etc.)
I don't feel that that charters and OOB is holding back our two local neighborhood schools. They both have long waitlists! If anything, more and more middle class professionals are doing the lottery, doing preschool here, visiting an array of DCPS schools and charters and realizing the potential that exists here in the city. Instead of dismissing the local schools out of hand and moving.

Do you intend to stay at your IB through 5th grade? McFarland for middle? (I don't have a lot of hope for that school for at least 15 more years). A lot of folks (not you PP) are very judgy about how they "commit" to their IB. I would like for them to report back by 2nd grade.. Every single high SES family I know EotP (i live in petworth too) bailed on their IB by 1st grade for a charter, private or moved. Everyone had the same "lets commit to our IB!!" mentalality and thats awesome but by 2nd grade they just can't ignore growing behaviroal issues that are based in systemic poverty of a lot of the students and the every growing achievement gap. We all mean well but at the end of the day you gotta do whats best for YOUR kid if you are able.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We're only in PreK3 right now, and I would absolutely pick our DCPS (West) if only they had Spanish. That is literally the only reason we are at our charter instead. Long term, I really think that DCPS schools are going to get better, and maybe that is a direct function of charter competition.

Spanish immersion? Or Spanish classes / exposure?

Our daycare was immersion, and the charter is half day Spanish, half day English. Honestly, if West even had Spanish classes or as an aftercare thing, I would probably switch over in a second. I just don't want my kid to lose this while he's still so little, since we aren't native speakers and Spanish was a happy accident in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We're only in PreK3 right now, and I would absolutely pick our DCPS (West) if only they had Spanish. That is literally the only reason we are at our charter instead. Long term, I really think that DCPS schools are going to get better, and maybe that is a direct function of charter competition.

I think this sort of preference was the basic idea behind the school cluster proposal in the boundary brouhaha last year (that you could pick among three nearby ES, with one of those schools having a special focus like language or montessori). The problem is that what people want can't be in every neighborhood.

I certainly think the charters pushed the tipping point that has more and more families considering their neighborhood DCPS. Real estate around West doesn't seem to be cooling off and not everyone can get into a charter.