Bar Mitzvah for 10K?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you don't raise your child Jewish b/c of a bar mitzvah? Ridiculous. Have a small luncheon of something simple at the temple afterward - a nice oneg.

More accurately, PP is not raising their child Jewish because of the bar mitzvah PARTY. Which is not actually a religious requirement.

I'm the original Pp who said this is why I'm not raising my children jewish--it was in response to the person who said you couldn't possibly throw a decent party for under 10k. It's that snooty attitude that I'm trying to stay away from. Not that all Jews act or talk like that, but the whole ridiculious bar mitzvah/bat mitzvah scene is absolutely about being showy and ostentatious. Sure you could have a low key affair with just cake and no DJ party after the service, but at what social cost to your child who is invited to these fancy shin digs and can't live up to the others or reciprocate?

My family were poor immigrants in the 70s and tried to join a synagogue and were turned away because they could not afford it. Our family is not the only ones who had experienced this, we have heard similar stories, so forgive me if it leaves a bad taste in my mouth towards this religion (and most religions, actually). I know now they have "scholarships" for families who can't afford them, but why all the money anyway? Why is belonging to a synagogue about fees/money and tickets?

I am Catholic, but my DH is Jewish. We have often discussed how ridiculous it is to have what is essentially a wedding-like reception for a 13-year old. In my religion, when a child makes his or her First Communion or gets confirmed (rites of passage that are just as significant in our religion as a Bar/Bat Mitzvah is in the Jewish faith), it is usually followed by a simple lunch at the parents' house with a sheet cake, balloons, streamers, kids playing in the backyard, and simple gifts. I don't see why anything beyond this is necessary, and my Jewish husband agrees, but perhaps someone can educate me. Why not just have someething simple like this OP? As long it is fun for your child, who cares what anyone else thinks!

I am pretty tired of Catholics comparing first communion and confirmation to a Bar/Bat Mitvah. They are not even close to the same thing. A Bar/Bat Mitzvah is a ceremony that usually is for one child only (very occasionally is it done in groups) and involves years of schooling and Hebrew language lessons. The child has to lead 30-60 minute long service that includes reading from both the Torah and Bible in Hebrew and giving a written speech about the event. First communion and confirmation is done in groups and the kids don't lead the service.

In addition, in many communities, Catholic families spend an extreme amount of money dressing their little girl like a bride for her first communion. What's that all about?

You seem to be a self-proclaimed expert on Catholicism, but let me correct you on one thing. First Communion and Confirmation also take years of study. In fact, you must take classes for two full years to become confirmed. I know that the Bar/Bat Mitzvah is very significant, but you did not have to diminish the importance of the Catholic rites of passage or all of the work that the kids must do to participate in them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you don't raise your child Jewish b/c of a bar mitzvah? Ridiculous. Have a small luncheon of something simple at the temple afterward - a nice oneg.

More accurately, PP is not raising their child Jewish because of the bar mitzvah PARTY. Which is not actually a religious requirement.

I'm the original Pp who said this is why I'm not raising my children jewish--it was in response to the person who said you couldn't possibly throw a decent party for under 10k. It's that snooty attitude that I'm trying to stay away from. Not that all Jews act or talk like that, but the whole ridiculious bar mitzvah/bat mitzvah scene is absolutely about being showy and ostentatious. Sure you could have a low key affair with just cake and no DJ party after the service, but at what social cost to your child who is invited to these fancy shin digs and can't live up to the others or reciprocate?

My family were poor immigrants in the 70s and tried to join a synagogue and were turned away because they could not afford it. Our family is not the only ones who had experienced this, we have heard similar stories, so forgive me if it leaves a bad taste in my mouth towards this religion (and most religions, actually). I know now they have "scholarships" for families who can't afford them, but why all the money anyway? Why is belonging to a synagogue about fees/money and tickets?

I am Catholic, but my DH is Jewish. We have often discussed how ridiculous it is to have what is essentially a wedding-like reception for a 13-year old. In my religion, when a child makes his or her First Communion or gets confirmed (rites of passage that are just as significant in our religion as a Bar/Bat Mitzvah is in the Jewish faith), it is usually followed by a simple lunch at the parents' house with a sheet cake, balloons, streamers, kids playing in the backyard, and simple gifts. I don't see why anything beyond this is necessary, and my Jewish husband agrees, but perhaps someone can educate me. Why not just have someething simple like this OP? As long it is fun for your child, who cares what anyone else thinks!

I am pretty tired of Catholics comparing first communion and confirmation to a Bar/Bat Mitvah. They are not even close to the same thing. A Bar/Bat Mitzvah is a ceremony that usually is for one child only (very occasionally is it done in groups) and involves years of schooling and Hebrew language lessons. The child has to lead 30-60 minute long service that includes reading from both the Torah and Bible in Hebrew and giving a written speech about the event. First communion and confirmation is done in groups and the kids don't lead the service.

In addition, in many communities, Catholic families spend an extreme amount of money dressing their little girl like a bride for her first communion. What's that all about?

You seem to be a self-proclaimed expert on Catholicism, but let me correct you on one thing. First Communion and Confirmation also take years of study. In fact, you must take classes for two full years to become confirmed. I know that the Bar/Bat Mitzvah is very significant, but you did not have to diminish the importance of the Catholic rites of passage or all of the work that the kids must do to participate in them. [/quote]

Well said. To the PP who is tired of Catholics comparing ... to me you represent what is wrong with religion. Why must you take such a competitive view of things? Religion is not a competition and if you see it that way (which you obviously do by your comment) you have my pity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you don't raise your child Jewish b/c of a bar mitzvah? Ridiculous. Have a small luncheon of something simple at the temple afterward - a nice oneg.

More accurately, PP is not raising their child Jewish because of the bar mitzvah PARTY. Which is not actually a religious requirement.

I'm the original Pp who said this is why I'm not raising my children jewish--it was in response to the person who said you couldn't possibly throw a decent party for under 10k. It's that snooty attitude that I'm trying to stay away from. Not that all Jews act or talk like that, but the whole ridiculious bar mitzvah/bat mitzvah scene is absolutely about being showy and ostentatious. Sure you could have a low key affair with just cake and no DJ party after the service, but at what social cost to your child who is invited to these fancy shin digs and can't live up to the others or reciprocate?

My family were poor immigrants in the 70s and tried to join a synagogue and were turned away because they could not afford it. Our family is not the only ones who had experienced this, we have heard similar stories, so forgive me if it leaves a bad taste in my mouth towards this religion (and most religions, actually). I know now they have "scholarships" for families who can't afford them, but why all the money anyway? Why is belonging to a synagogue about fees/money and tickets?

I am Catholic, but my DH is Jewish. We have often discussed how ridiculous it is to have what is essentially a wedding-like reception for a 13-year old. In my religion, when a child makes his or her First Communion or gets confirmed (rites of passage that are just as significant in our religion as a Bar/Bat Mitzvah is in the Jewish faith), it is usually followed by a simple lunch at the parents' house with a sheet cake, balloons, streamers, kids playing in the backyard, and simple gifts. I don't see why anything beyond this is necessary, and my Jewish husband agrees, but perhaps someone can educate me. Why not just have someething simple like this OP? As long it is fun for your child, who cares what anyone else thinks!

I am pretty tired of Catholics comparing first communion and confirmation to a Bar/Bat Mitvah. They are not even close to the same thing. A Bar/Bat Mitzvah is a ceremony that usually is for one child only (very occasionally is it done in groups) and involves years of schooling and Hebrew language lessons. The child has to lead 30-60 minute long service that includes reading from both the Torah and Bible in Hebrew and giving a written speech about the event. First communion and confirmation is done in groups and the kids don't lead the service.

In addition, in many communities, Catholic families spend an extreme amount of money dressing their little girl like a bride for her first communion. What's that all about?

Oh yeah, the couple hundred dollars at most spent on First Communion attire are comparable to the tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars spent on Bar Mitzvahs. Also, the white dress and veil are part of the tradition, so please do not be disrespectful by saying that the parents are dressing the girls up "like a bride."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel the same way as the pp. I would love to be part of the community, but being shaken down for dues, tuition, and then having to humiliate my kids by throwing a shabby bar mitzvah. No thanks. I think American Jews need to rethink their approach to all this.

Agreed.
These extravagant parties are ridiculous in their opulence and make a mockery of the religious aspect of a Bar/Bat Mitzvah.

I am in my late 30s and have never been to an extravagant bar mitzvah. All have been very low key. Can you please post what shut you belong to where people feel they need to throw extravagant parties?

Synagogues in Rockville, Chevy Chase, Bethesda, Potomac, DC, N. NJ, Long Island, NY, Philadelphia (Chestnut Hill) and Main Line ...
I am in my late 40s and I have only been to extravagant parties for bar and bat mitzvahs. The services are usually lovely full of tradition and spirituality. But the parties that follow are embarrassing in their extravagance and focus on spending.

Mid 40's here, and me too but in south FL. The level of decor, food, clothing (the last one the girl was sporting a Chanel dress and her first pair of CL heels - jewel-encrusted, naturally), entertainment, swag, etc. is really pretty unbelievable. I think they found no irony in her speech when she talked about being so proud of raising a few hundred dollars for the chosen cause for her mitzvah project.

[Anonymous]

I have been to some ridiculous sweet 16s this has nothing to do with Jews. New money likes to flaunt it. That's what it is about. And if they can afford it more power to them. Some of you are beginning to sound like you are jealous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have been to some ridiculous sweet 16s this has nothing to do with Jews. New money likes to flaunt it. That's what it is about. And if they can afford it more power to them. Some of you are beginning to sound like you are jealous.

Believe me, not jealous. I admit I am judging but then there is a lot to judge. I am embarrassed for these Bar and Bat Mitzvah events and the misguided direction the children's special milestones often take.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Oh yeah, the couple hundred dollars at most spent on First Communion attire are comparable to the tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars spent on Bar Mitzvahs. Also, the white dress and veil are part of the tradition, so please do not be disrespectful by saying that the parents are dressing the girls up "like a bride."

I don't understand why it's disrespectful? Yes, the white dress and veil are part of the tradition, and yes, it's bride clothes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Bar Mitzvah simply means when a boy is 13 years old and reads from the Torah the first time before the assembled congregation--he joins the Jewish community. That's it. No parties, no celebrations, no nothing. All the rest of it is bullshit that has been tacked on for social/cultural reasons which at this point only an insane person wouldn't recognize are completely antithetical to any notion of spirituality or meaning.

The only reason there is "years of schooling" is because the typical American Jew is "illiterate" in the Hebrew language and culture and has to be educated to a certain minimal level before going through this now-ostentatiously ridiculous ceremonial process.

Nevertheless the years of training is not actually a requirement. All that is required is turning age 13 and reading from the Torah before the congregation.

But you can't read from the Torah before the congregation without years of training. That's true for every Jew everywhere, not just American Jews. You can't just go up there and start reading, no matter how fluent you are at reading Hebrew and how much you know about Jewish culture(s).

[Anonymous]

Every year Christians go crazy buying crap for Christmas, at that time of year Hanukkah is not a major holiday. So comparing a Christian first communion to a bar mitzvah simply can't be done. Totally different significance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Every year Christians go crazy buying crap for Christmas, at that time of year Hanukkah is not a major holiday. So comparing a Christian first communion to a bar mitzvah simply can't be done. Totally different significance.

Not sure where you live but where I do the Jewish kids get a ton of crap for Hanukkah as well. Don't kid yourself.

[Anonymous]

Why aren't the rabbis speaking out against this materialistic extravagance? Are they too cowed by the parents and don't want to offend potential donors to the temple? These bar/bat mitzvahs might as well have golden calves as centerpieces.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:10k is nothing. I pay over 5k a year for our family to be members and kids to attend religious school. It's 5k per year from k-7th grade and then the last year an additional 10k-75k for the party.

Well good for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nope. Sorry. A shitty, cheap one for 10k is doable. But not a good, fun one. I'm sorry.

Ugh. This is exactly why I'm not raising my Jewish children in a synagogue. This "necessary party" for a right of passage is such a show off for the parents. Makes me sick.

You do know that plenty of us don't do this and belong to a synagogues? You are judgmental.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At our synagogue anything goes. You don't need to do a fancy party.

But will the parents be rude about you behind your back? That is the question.

Not at mine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here- not trying to impress our friends- in our synagogue, you invite the entire 8th grade class which is 75 kids, plus DS's friends, plus our few close family friends comes out to 150 people. I didn't say it needed to be fancy, I said fun.

The whole class of 75 eighth graders? They can't all want to come.

Our party was very, very fun. Kiddish standard kosher meal for 80, evening house party not kosher. Perhaps 25 kids, some family, and our close friends. Maybe 70. I had servers I the house and food from a local restaurant. Rented some tables etc. came in at maybe $5k.