Has anyone here successfully terminated spousal support?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like it would be worth it for you to spend a few hundred dollars on a consultation with a family lawyer in California to evaluate whether you have a case to terminate early (assuming you can get proof of her cohabitation). Also, the lawyer can tell you what the court would accept as proof and how much you would likely have to spend to obtain it. Finally, the lawyer can give you an objective opinion as to whether your settlement for ten years of alimony was a "bad deal." He/she can tell you what the law is in California and what a judge would likely have given her (i.e., would she have been entitled to lifetime support and so you settling for 10 years was really in your best interest?). I don't know the law in California and maybe your lawyer was bad or maybe he/she got you the best deal possible in light of the circumstances. I do realize that paying her this money has got to be awful each month and I do feel for you. But it sounds like it would be money well spent to talk to an attorney who can advise you as to whether you have a case to move forward and what it would cost.

Thanks. I am thinking of approaching it from another angle. I've been reading that I may have grounds based on decreased need on her part. Rather than approaching the cohabitation at all.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Hmmm. Wondering if she helped put you through grad school? Something doesn't seem right about this.

She would have reaped the benefits of that during the marriage and via equity in the house. She didn't deserve 10 years alimony. Not OP, by the way.

Maybe OP just had a really shitty lawyer.

OP here. You can say that again. It's hard to see when you're in the thick of it.

I was the PP who said you maybe had a shitty lawyer. I'm a lawyer myself who actually doesn't practice family law but got an A+ (my only one!) at Harvard Law in that subject. I have also been in a bad marriage. I totally understand. You just do the best you can at the time. Can't blame yourself and bitterness helps no one

Thanks! I don't feel bitter anymore. Mostly just want it over with. Part of me still can't understand. I am genuinely a good person and always tried to do the right thing. When I married her she was a single mother on welfare. Her child's father was in prison and never contributed a dime to the care of his child.
I gave them both a good stable life. In return I got a miserable, lazy woman that was physically and emotionally abusive to me. She was a very unhappy woman and we were very unhappy together. I really don't understand how she feels like she's owed anything. That will always boggle my mind.

Because you left her. Doesn't matter how miserable you both were, you ended the marriage. She will always view herself as the victim because that's the lense she looks through. She's a woman scorned.

Op here. That's probably exactly what she'd say. I can't wrap my head around that logic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:O.P. - on the one hand, we have the legal system. And, on the other hand, we have the often unfair, and painful, realities of unraveling a marriage. I'm posting here, not as a long-time (but now former) divorce lawyer but, rather as a divorcée. Sure, I know what the law says. And, I've also seen the ugly machinations of "the system." Ultimately, many of my own decisions were based on a cost-benefit analysis. Did I want us both impoverished from paying the lawyers to fight a war of attrition? Or, did I prefer to hold my nose as we signed-off on a deal which left us both a little "unhappy." Life isn't fair, and the divorce process is just one more element of unfairness. One upside for you is that you won't have a lifetime connection based on children.

OP here. Thanks! Given your experience would you say this to be true, or untrue:
I was given advice to personally (sans Lawyer) file for a modification to support based on a change of circumstance (hers).
I was told that she would basically be forced to prove she still required support and wasn't co-habitating.

The way my situation played out, the judge looked only at my apparent "need" for DXH to follow through on what was in our divorce agreement, not his ability to pay what had been decided. He was supposed to carry the children on his health insurance. I paid for COBRA coverage because he failed to keep up his responsibilities. Man, I had my ass handed to me in Court. He lied, with zero documentation to back up his lies, and got away with it. So, even as he slinks lower and lower, I am reluctant to take it to court based on this experience.

It's easy enough to file for a modification without a lawyer. But, if DXW is filing taxes on her own and not legally married, prepare yourself for disappointment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:O.P. - on the one hand, we have the legal system. And, on the other hand, we have the often unfair, and painful, realities of unraveling a marriage. I'm posting here, not as a long-time (but now former) divorce lawyer but, rather as a divorcée. Sure, I know what the law says. And, I've also seen the ugly machinations of "the system." Ultimately, many of my own decisions were based on a cost-benefit analysis. Did I want us both impoverished from paying the lawyers to fight a war of attrition? Or, did I prefer to hold my nose as we signed-off on a deal which left us both a little "unhappy." Life isn't fair, and the divorce process is just one more element of unfairness. One upside for you is that you won't have a lifetime connection based on children.

OP here. Thanks! Given your experience would you say this to be true, or untrue:
I was given advice to personally (sans Lawyer) file for a modification to support based on a change of circumstance (hers).
I was told that she would basically be forced to prove she still required support and wasn't co-habitating.

The way my situation played out, the judge looked only at my apparent "need" for DXH to follow through on what was in our divorce agreement, not his ability to pay what had been decided. He was supposed to carry the children on his health insurance. I paid for COBRA coverage because he failed to keep up his responsibilities. Man, I had my ass handed to me in Court. He lied, with zero documentation to back up his lies, and got away with it. So, even as he slinks lower and lower, I am reluctant to take it to court based on this experience.

It's easy enough to file for a modification without a lawyer. But, if DXW is filing taxes on her own and not legally married, prepare yourself for disappointment.

OP here. Thanks. Yes in speaking with others it has become obvious that the person that is willing to be the bigger asshole usually "wins" in the court proceedings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:O.P. - on the one hand, we have the legal system. And, on the other hand, we have the often unfair, and painful, realities of unraveling a marriage. I'm posting here, not as a long-time (but now former) divorce lawyer but, rather as a divorcée. Sure, I know what the law says. And, I've also seen the ugly machinations of "the system." Ultimately, many of my own decisions were based on a cost-benefit analysis. Did I want us both impoverished from paying the lawyers to fight a war of attrition? Or, did I prefer to hold my nose as we signed-off on a deal which left us both a little "unhappy." Life isn't fair, and the divorce process is just one more element of unfairness. One upside for you is that you won't have a lifetime connection based on children.

OP here. Thanks! Given your experience would you say this to be true, or untrue:
I was given advice to personally (sans Lawyer) file for a modification to support based on a change of circumstance (hers).
I was told that she would basically be forced to prove she still required support and wasn't co-habitating.

The way my situation played out, the judge looked only at my apparent "need" for DXH to follow through on what was in our divorce agreement, not his ability to pay what had been decided. He was supposed to carry the children on his health insurance. I paid for COBRA coverage because he failed to keep up his responsibilities. Man, I had my ass handed to me in Court. He lied, with zero documentation to back up his lies, and got away with it. So, even as he slinks lower and lower, I am reluctant to take it to court based on this experience.

It's easy enough to file for a modification without a lawyer. But, if DXW is filing taxes on her own and not legally married, prepare yourself for disappointment.

OP here. Thanks. Yes in speaking with others it has become obvious that the person that is willing to be the bigger asshole usually "wins" in the court proceedings.

This is very very very very true. We have been through some unique experiences in court and basically the other people lied and were the biggest a-holes and we were not willing to go to their level and obviously lost.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hmmm. Wondering if she helped put you through grad school? Something doesn't seem right about this.

She would have reaped the benefits of that during the marriage and via equity in the house. She didn't deserve 10 years alimony. Not OP, by the way.

Maybe OP just had a really shitty lawyer.

OP here. You can say that again. It's hard to see when you're in the thick of it.

I was the PP who said you maybe had a shitty lawyer. I'm a lawyer myself who actually doesn't practice family law but got an A+ (my only one!) at Harvard Law in that subject. I have also been in a bad marriage. I totally understand. You just do the best you can at the time. Can't blame yourself and bitterness helps no one

Thanks! I don't feel bitter anymore. Mostly just want it over with. Part of me still can't understand. I am genuinely a good person and always tried to do the right thing. When I married her she was a single mother on welfare. Her child's father was in prison and never contributed a dime to the care of his child.
I gave them both a good stable life. In return I got a miserable, lazy woman that was physically and emotionally abusive to me. She was a very unhappy woman and we were very unhappy together. I really don't understand how she feels like she's owed anything. That will always boggle my mind.

Because you left her. Doesn't matter how miserable you both were, you ended the marriage. She will always view herself as the victim because that's the lense she looks through. She's a woman scorned.

Op here. That's probably exactly what she'd say. I can't wrap my head around that logic.

I wrote that and I completely agree with you. But I have several aquaintices that behave that way about their exes. It's a terrible way to live imo.

[Anonymous]

Piecing together the story a little, it seems your ex has never supported herself. She went right to welfare with a child at a very young age (possibly right from her parents support as she had no education), then to you in marriage, then to you after marriage by way of alimony, and now is cohabiting with another man who is most likely contributing to her support or at least increasing her lifestyle by splitting rent, furnishings etc.
This is the only lifestyle she knows.
Can I ask how much she is getting monthly from you? Or what percent of your take home?

[Anonymous]

I am routing for you OP - hope you find a way. Keep us posted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Piecing together the story a little, it seems your ex has never supported herself. She went right to welfare with a child at a very young age (possibly right from her parents support as she had no education), then to you in marriage, then to you after marriage by way of alimony, and now is cohabiting with another man who is most likely contributing to her support or at least increasing her lifestyle by splitting rent, furnishings etc.
This is the only lifestyle she knows.
Can I ask how much she is getting monthly from you? Or what percent of your take home?

Yes, that's it exactly. She's receiving between 15-20% of my income. I make salary + commission so it varies.
She did manage to do as I suggested during our marriage, and internally apply for a different full-time position at the school she works for. It's a publicly funded school so her income is public knowledge. She went from making around $8000 per year to now making $48000 total pay with benefits. So she had the ability all along. Not that 48k is any shining star.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am routing for you OP - hope you find a way. Keep us posted.

Thanks! I'm going to go over my divorce settlement and run some numbers.

[Anonymous]

I work as a paralegal for a family law firm.

It's not worth it- you will be paying out the wazoo, particularly since this is out of state. You will almost certainly rack up more costs fighting this is court than it will take to fulfill your remaining few years.

Seriously- I think you're being petty. Accept that this is what you have to do to get out of the marriage, and move on with your life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I work as a paralegal for a family law firm.

It's not worth it- you will be paying out the wazoo, particularly since this is out of state. You will almost certainly rack up more costs fighting this is court than it will take to fulfill your remaining few years.

Seriously- I think you're being petty. Accept that this is what you have to do to get out of the marriage, and move on with your life.

Ok! Thanks for your perspective.

[Anonymous]

Oh OP, until you said you were in Cali, I was sure you were my husband and this were a few years back. Same situation, I mean, almost exact same details. Husband married a woman years back, impressed with her ability to start a home cleaning business with no high school or other education so speak of, she swindles him, they marry, she quits her lucrative business, stops chasing her exes for support and lets him support hers and then their kids. Miserable lazy woman, works at the pharmacy now counting pills for $8 an hour and just moved in with an ex-con. Yay!

But my husband paid for years, and she never spent a dime on their kids, hoarded all that money. But I digress.

You can go for a change in circumstances, however, there are a few other things you haven't considered. The "change" may also include your support of new wife and child, as well as old wife having a job. Agree with PP who said spousal support is supposed to be for a period of time, but not for the length of the marriage -what the eff. Way to make a woman have zero desire to work again. I have a friend who was married in Cali for 20 years, and they gave him 10 of spousal support. There was a half/life thing on the marriage to support equation, so that's another issue you might be able to figure out.

All the lawyers are going to maim me, but why not file on your own? It can't get worse, it could only get better, so why not go it alone and see what you come up with? Let her hire a lawyer and spend some money being a professional golddigger.

And for what it's worth, I tell the hubs all the time, I cannot believe he got married again (to me.) Bitch almost ruined him for good. Damn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I work as a paralegal for a family law firm.

It's not worth it- you will be paying out the wazoo, particularly since this is out of state. You will almost certainly rack up more costs fighting this is court than it will take to fulfill your remaining few years.

Seriously- I think you're being petty. Accept that this is what you have to do to get out of the marriage, and move on with your life.

If I was OP, this would negate any advice you provided.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work as a paralegal for a family law firm.

It's not worth it- you will be paying out the wazoo, particularly since this is out of state. You will almost certainly rack up more costs fighting this is court than it will take to fulfill your remaining few years.

Seriously- I think you're being petty. Accept that this is what you have to do to get out of the marriage, and move on with your life.

If I was OP, this would negate any advice you provided.

+1