4 people dead after gunman opens fire on military recruitment office in TN

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So this is domestic terrorism but Charleston was not???
Wow!

Domestic? No. Terrorism by a Muslim foreigner against our US military, just as ISIS asked for? Yes.

He is an American citizen with no known ties to ISIS.

Who's father is on the terror watch list. Who was not born here. Who shot up a military facility, just like ISIS suggested.

Sorry for the disappointing outcome. Perhaps you should work as hard to ban Muslim symbols here as you do American?

His father was removed from the watch list and made a special police officer. I've never tried to ban any symbol. What Muslim symbol do you think should be banned?

None. Just like I think the hoopla about the Confederate flag is just that - hoopla.

So what you are saying is that this guy, who kept a blog that referred to a hypothetical test that would 'separate the inhabitants of Paradise from the inhabitants of Hellfire.' and also stated "We ask Allah ... to give us a complete understanding of the message of Islam, and the strength the [sic]live by this knowledge, and to know what role we need to play to establish Islam in the world," was simply a rogue nutter with no religious motive? He blogged this on Monday: "life is short and bitter" and Muslims should not miss an opportunity to "submit to Allah,"

Despite the fact that he chose a military recruiting facility to open fire upon?

This dude doesn't have to be formally linked to a terror group, nor did Roof have to be formally linked to the KKK, to call this what it is.

As for his father? The average Muslim here is not 'at one time investigated for terror ties'.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So this is domestic terrorism but Charleston was not???
Wow!

Domestic? No. Terrorism by a Muslim foreigner against our US military, just as ISIS asked for? Yes.

He is an American citizen with no known ties to ISIS.

Who's father is on the terror watch list. Who was not born here. Who shot up a military facility, just like ISIS suggested.

Sorry for the disappointing outcome. Perhaps you should work as hard to ban Muslim symbols here as you do American?

His father was removed from the watch list and made a special police officer. I've never tried to ban any symbol. What Muslim symbol do you think should be banned?

None. Just like I think the hoopla about the Confederate flag is just that - hoopla.

So what you are saying is that this guy, who kept a blog that referred to a hypothetical test that would 'separate the inhabitants of Paradise from the inhabitants of Hellfire.' and also stated "We ask Allah ... to give us a complete understanding of the message of Islam, and the strength the [sic]live by this knowledge, and to know what role we need to play to establish Islam in the world," was simply a rogue nutter with no religious motive? He blogged this on Monday: "life is short and bitter" and Muslims should not miss an opportunity to "submit to Allah,"

Despite the fact that he chose a military recruiting facility to open fire upon?

This dude doesn't have to be formally linked to a terror group, nor did Roof have to be formally linked to the KKK, to call this what it is.

As for his father? The average Muslim here is not 'at one time investigated for terror ties'.

I am absolutely not saying there was no religious motive. I'm saying that no ties to ISIS or any other terror group have been established. At this point we simply don't know his motive. Someone just posted a list of attacks on the military within the US. I notice that if the attacks were committed by a Muslim, they are considered terrorism (maybe not in that list, but generally) whereas in the cases of non-Muslims attackers the mental state of the perpetrator is blamed. Muslims apparently don't suffer from mental illness, but are simply terrorists. In the case of Dylann Roof, the judge went so far as to plead for sympathy for his family who the judge considered victims. In this case, you are ready to convict the perpetrator's father on the basis of an investigation that cleared him. But, of course there is no double standard.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So this is domestic terrorism but Charleston was not???
Wow!

Domestic? No. Terrorism by a Muslim foreigner against our US military, just as ISIS asked for? Yes.

He is an American citizen with no known ties to ISIS.

Who's father is on the terror watch list. Who was not born here. Who shot up a military facility, just like ISIS suggested.

Sorry for the disappointing outcome. Perhaps you should work as hard to ban Muslim symbols here as you do American?

His father was removed from the watch list and made a special police officer. I've never tried to ban any symbol. What Muslim symbol do you think should be banned?

None. Just like I think the hoopla about the Confederate flag is just that - hoopla.

So what you are saying is that this guy, who kept a blog that referred to a hypothetical test that would 'separate the inhabitants of Paradise from the inhabitants of Hellfire.' and also stated "We ask Allah ... to give us a complete understanding of the message of Islam, and the strength the [sic]live by this knowledge, and to know what role we need to play to establish Islam in the world," was simply a rogue nutter with no religious motive? He blogged this on Monday: "life is short and bitter" and Muslims should not miss an opportunity to "submit to Allah,"

Despite the fact that he chose a military recruiting facility to open fire upon?

This dude doesn't have to be formally linked to a terror group, nor did Roof have to be formally linked to the KKK, to call this what it is.

As for his father? The average Muslim here is not 'at one time investigated for terror ties'.

I am absolutely not saying there was no religious motive. I'm saying that no ties to ISIS or any other terror group have been established. At this point we simply don't know his motive. Someone just posted a list of attacks on the military within the US. I notice that if the attacks were committed by a Muslim, they are considered terrorism (maybe not in that list, but generally) whereas in the cases of non-Muslims attackers the mental state of the perpetrator is blamed. Muslims apparently don't suffer from mental illness, but are simply terrorists. In the case of Dylann Roof, the judge went so far as to plead for sympathy for his family who the judge considered victims. In this case, you are ready to convict the perpetrator's father on the basis of an investigation that cleared him. But, of course there is no double standard.

The father is simply additional information. Were Muslim groups not calling for attacks on the military, I might be willing to engage your point. However, that's not the case.

I don't need an 'official' telling me why this man did what he did - especially since the top official, Obama, already whitewashed it, just like he did with Hasan at Ft. Hood.

[Anonymous]

I just love the cookie cutter conclusions people come to about perpetrators based on their profiles...

Muslim and/or Arab = terrorist
Latino = gang member
Black = street thug

If the description of the suspect fits any of the above with regard to race or religion then the corresponding conclusion about their motivation is an indisputable fact that cannot be argued. The only instances in which it is okay to withhold judgement about someone and wait until all the facts come out is when they are . . .

You know what I'm going to say right?
Lol - yeah. Crazy isn't it? And amusingly enough that's usually the conclusion people come to with regard to those perpetrators, "Oh he was just crazy."
Thank goodness folks didn't buy into that bullshit with James Holmes.

I'm done - y'all can get back to arguing about beards.

[Anonymous]

Jeff,

Are you Muslim? You seem to be defending it pretty hard. This guy killed innocent people for no reason, in the name of Islam, and you want to say its not the fault of Islamic teachings. That's a stretch.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:Jeff,

Are you Muslim? You seem to be defending it pretty hard. This guy killed innocent people for no reason, in the name of Islam, and you want to say its not the fault of Islamic teachings. That's a stretch.

I support the rights of people of color and I'm not a person of color. I support the rights of gay people and I'm not gay. I support equal rights for women and I am not a woman. I support helping the poor and I am not poor. So, why would you ask about my religion?

What evidence do you have that this guy killed in the name of Islam? You seem to be well ahead of the investigators.

[Anonymous]

So you are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just love the cookie cutter conclusions people come to about perpetrators based on their profiles...

Muslim and/or Arab = terrorist
Latino = gang member
Black = street thug

If the description of the suspect fits any of the above with regard to race or religion then the corresponding conclusion about their motivation is an indisputable fact that cannot be argued. The only instances in which it is okay to withhold judgement about someone and wait until all the facts come out is when they are . . .

You know what I'm going to say right?
Lol - yeah. Crazy isn't it? And amusingly enough that's usually the conclusion people come to with regard to those perpetrators, "Oh he was just crazy."
Thank goodness folks didn't buy into that bullshit with James Holmes.

I'm done - y'all can get back to arguing about beards.

You forgot White = Mental Illness

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just love the cookie cutter conclusions people come to about perpetrators based on their profiles...

Muslim and/or Arab = terrorist
Latino = gang member
Black = street thug

If the description of the suspect fits any of the above with regard to race or religion then the corresponding conclusion about their motivation is an indisputable fact that cannot be argued. The only instances in which it is okay to withhold judgement about someone and wait until all the facts come out is when they are . . .

You know what I'm going to say right?
Lol - yeah. Crazy isn't it? And amusingly enough that's usually the conclusion people come to with regard to those perpetrators, "Oh he was just crazy."
Thank goodness folks didn't buy into that bullshit with James Holmes.

I'm done - y'all can get back to arguing about beards.

You forgot White = Mental Illness

You guessed it!
That's the conclusion people come to with regard to those perpetrators.

[Anonymous]

From what the guy wrote on his blog, he was unhappy and wanted to end his life and move on to Paradise. In his blog he sounded like a true believe. The only sure way to go to paradise, and skip over the trial of the grave, is to be killed in Jihad, which is what he probably thought he was doing.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jeff,

Are you Muslim? You seem to be defending it pretty hard. This guy killed innocent people for no reason, in the name of Islam, and you want to say its not the fault of Islamic teachings. That's a stretch.

I support the rights of people of color and I'm not a person of color. I support the rights of gay people and I'm not gay. I support equal rights for women and I am not a woman. I support helping the poor and I am not poor. So, why would you ask about my religion?

What evidence do you have that this guy killed in the name of Islam? You seem to be well ahead of the investigators.

Iirc, Jeff went from being a Reagan supports in the 80s as a teen, to seeing the Palestinian Intifada unfold on TV, to working with groups supporting Palestinian causes; I assume his work led to him visiting the region many times and he might even speak Arabic (not all Arabs are Muslim, remember). You really cannot doubt his experience and his knowledge of the facts as far as the recent history of that part of the world.

also, I do not view him as "defending Islam" as much as trying to counter others false assumptions about it; that's the difference. He does not seem to approach the issue from a religious standpoint (he's different in that regard from, say Muslima- who is clearly a devout Muslim person).

I'm in favor of awaiting the results of the investigation - is that so radical?

Also, please consider the Boston investigation: it was not immediately apparent what the motives were; the perpetrators did not fit people's assumptions; it actually took investigators quite some time to figure it all out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From what the guy wrote on his blog, he was unhappy and wanted to end his life and move on to Paradise. In his blog he sounded like a true believe. The only sure way to go to paradise, and skip over the trial of the grave, is to be killed in Jihad, which is what he probably thought he was doing.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/16/chattanooga-shooter-gave-a-chilling-warning-of-jihad.html

His blog:

https://myabdulazeez.wordpress.com/

??? ???? ?????? ??????

In the Name of Allah (SWT), the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful

Understanding Islam: The Story of the Three Blind Men

There were three blind men that wanted to know what an elephant looks like. Somebody took them to the zoo and directed them to the elephant cage. Since they cannot see, they used their sense of touch to get a description of the appearance of the elephant.

They went around the elephant touching it from different parts. One of the blind men grabbed the ear of the elephant, the second one grabbed the foot, and the third one grabbed the tail of the elephant.

When they went back people were asking them, “what do you know about the elephant?” The one who grabbed the ear said, “Well the elephant is very wide and flat”. The other two became upset and said, “No, that is not correct”. The one who grabbed the foot said, “He’s wrong. It’s just like the trunk of a tree”. The third one said “Both of you don’t know what you are talking about, the elephant is like a long rope”. They continued arguing and could not come to an agreement on the appearance of the elephant.

Why did they get this different understanding of what an elephant is? It was because of their physical impairment and being limited to their sense of touch. They were all telling the truth and described to the best of their knowledge. But they were accusing the others of lying. Why? Because they don’t know where the others are coming from.

As Muslims, we often do this. We have a certain understanding of Islam and keep a tunnel vision of what we think Islam is. What we know is Islam and everything else is not. And we don’t have appreciation for other points of view and accept the fact that we may be missing some important parts of the religion.

Because Islam is a comprehensive religion we need to know everything from its message. The more comprehensive our knowledge of it is, the better our understanding of it will be and of what goes on around us.

We often talk about the Sahaba (RA) and their Ibada. We talk about their worshiping at night, making thikr, reading quran, fasting, sala. But did you ever notice that in one certain period towards the end of the lives of the Sahaba (RA), almost every one of the Sahaba (RA) was a political leader or an army general? Every one of them fought Jihad for the sake of Allah. Every one of them had to make sacrifices in their lives and some even left all their wealth to make hijrah to Medina.

So this picture that you have in your mind that the Sahaba (RA) were people being like priests living in monasteries is not true. All of them towards the end of the lives were either a mayor of a town, governor of a state, or leader of an army at the frontlines. The Sahaba (RA) were very involved in establishing Islam in the world. Their mission was to establish Islam and live it.

Abdullah Ibn Masood (RA) said “The companions of the Prophet (SAW) were the least superficial of the people”. They were very simple in the lives that they led and they were comprehensive in their understanding of Islam and applied what they knew. And that’s why they are considered to be the best generation that ever lived. After the prophets, they were the best human beings that ever lived.

We ask Allah to make us follow their path. To give us a complete understanding of the message of Islam, and the strength the live by this knowledge, and to know what role we need to play to establish Islam in the world.

[Anonymous]

His other blog post:

A Prison Called Dunya

Imagine that you are taken by force and placed in a prison. Once in the prison you realize that the living arrangements in this prison really aren’t that bad. There is a sun room, a TV to watch, computer to use, phone, different kinds of food, and even a section for exercise. After spending a couple weeks in the prison you get used to it and develop a routine. You still aren’t sure why you are in prison, or how long you will be there, but you are comfortable in your life. At this time one of the guards enters with a large folder that he hands you. You open the folder and read its instructions, stating that you will be spending the next couple years in this prison, and at the end of this term you will be given a test at a random time. It could be in 2 years or it could be in 4. The instructions state that passing this exam will result in you being released to the city of your choice and your living expenses will be paid as well as an allowance. Failing will lead to your transfer to another prison cell, one that has no windows or accessories except a hole in the ground for you to relieve yourself, and your meals will be the same oats and water day after day until you die.

A study guide for the test is included in the folder, and you are left alone. Put yourself in this position. What would you do?

I would imagine that any sane person would devote their time to mastering the information on the study guide and stay patient with their studies, only giving time for the other things around to keep themselves focused on passing the exam. They would do this because they know and have been told that they will be rewarded with pleasures that they have never seen.

Anyone who chooses to indulge in the activities around them and spend part or none of their time studying would surely live the rest of their life in remorse.

Allah (SWT) says in the quran (Surat Al-Hadid Verse 20):

????????? ???????? ?????????? ?????????? ?????? ???????? ????????? ??????????? ?????????? ??????????? ??? ???????????? ?????????????? ? ???????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? ????????? ????? ??????? ????????? ?????????? ????? ??????? ???????? ? ????? ?????????? ??????? ??????? ???????????? ????? ??????? ??????????? ? ????? ?????????? ?????????? ?????? ??????? ??????????

Know that the life of this world is but amusement and diversion and adornment and boasting to one another and competition in increase of wealth and children – like the example of a rain whose [resulting] plant growth pleases the tillers; then it dries and you see it turned yellow; then it becomes [scattered] debris. And in the Hereafter is severe punishment and forgiveness from Allah and approval. And what is the worldly life except the enjoyment of delusion.

Rasulullah (SAW) says in the following Sahih (Authentic) hadith:

???? ????? ?????????? ????? ????? ??????? ??????? ??? ???? ???? ????? ?????????? ?????? ??????????? ????????? ??????????

2956 ???? ???? ?????? ????????? ??????????????

Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “The world is a prison for the believer and a paradise for the unbeliever.”

Source: Sahih Muslim 2956

Subhnallah, this life we are living is nothing more than a test of our faith and patience. It was designed to separate the inhabitants of Paradise from the inhabitants of Hellfire, and to rank amongst them the best of the best and worst of the worst. Don’t let the society we live in deviate you from the task at hand. Take your study guide, the Quran and Sunnah, with strength and faith, and be firm as you live your short life in this prison called Dunya. Allah (SWT) says live for this life and the hereafter according to their length. Rasulullah says the life on this world compared to the hereafter is like a drop compared to an ocean.

Brothers and sisters don’t be fooled by your desires, this life is short and bitter and the opportunity to submit to allah may pass you by. Take his word as your light and code and do not let other prisoners, whether they are so called “Scholars” or even your family members, divert you from the truth. If you make the intention to follow allahs way 100 % and put your desires to the side, allah will guide you to what is right.

?????? ?? ??? ??? ???? ??? ?? ????? ??? ???? ???? ???? ???? ????? ?? ??? ?? ??? ????

? “? ??? ???? ????? ??? ????? ????? ???? ??????? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ????? ??????”? ?(??(????? ????????)??)??.?

Anas (May Allah be pleased with him) reported:

The Prophet (?) said, “Allah says: ‘ When a slave of Mine draws near to Me a span, I draw near to him a cubit; and if he draws near to Me a cubit, I draw near to him a fathom. And if he comes to Me walking, I go to him running.”‘.

[Al-Bukhari].

We ask Allah to be pleased with us, reward us with Janna, and we seek refuge from his anger and the punishment of the Fire.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From what the guy wrote on his blog, he was unhappy and wanted to end his life and move on to Paradise. In his blog he sounded like a true believe. The only sure way to go to paradise, and skip over the trial of the grave, is to be killed in Jihad, which is what he probably thought he was doing.

I do not disagree - but he only made 2 blog posts, correct? There seems to be a lot more work needed on this investigation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From what the guy wrote on his blog, he was unhappy and wanted to end his life and move on to Paradise. In his blog he sounded like a true believe. The only sure way to go to paradise, and skip over the trial of the grave, is to be killed in Jihad, which is what he probably thought he was doing.

I don't know that much about Islam, and your statement is probably oversimplifying. But your statement makes him sound like an entitled guy who wants to go to the head of the line without putting in his dues -- suicide by jihad instead of living a good life.