4 people dead after gunman opens fire on military recruitment office in TN

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Scum of the earth. So glad he is dead. Hope they find and arrest any others who conspired with him.
I fear there will be more attacks like this one.
I hope our military conducts air strikes out the wazoo as an answer to this terrorist act.

A very similar attack recently took place in Dallas. However, the attacker was an American (and he had an armored vehicle). Did you immediately propose air strikes against the Dallas suburb in which he lived? Do you base all of your reactions on names or do you normally try to be a bit more thoughtful than that?

The guy's dad was on the Fed's radar for terrorism connections.

Nothing to see here

[Anonymous]

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And please don't act like there's no religious significance at all attached to growing a beard. For some there is and some there isn't. Throwing it out there as a likely sign of religiosity is not an unfair observation. It is seen as a sign of piety and about five seconds in Google will show all sorts of religious discussion on the subject.

My dad was Muslim, and used to have a big beard like that growing up. He didn't have it for religious reasons at all - he just liked having a big beard. Plus, it was the 1970's.

Then one day he shaved it off and it wasn't because his religiosity changed.

I think you're more ignorant than you care to admit. Sometimes a beard is just a beard. Sometimes even Muslims have beards that have nothing to do with their Muslim-ness.

To be fair to the poster who mentioned his beard, she clearly didn't mean the beard to be conclusive evidence. Certainly, if he didn't have a beard, some -- probably me among the first -- would have suggested it was a sign that he wasn't religious (at least not religious as it is practiced by Islamic extremists). We simply don't know either way at this point whether Islam played a role. In the absence of knowledge, we are seeking clues about the cause and motivation of the attack.

Thank you! Was just throwing that out there as an indication. Not sure that warrants being equated with a mass murderer.

I disagree with Jeff and think you're full of crap, PP, "I'd say the style of beard he is sporting in his mugshot and other photos is an indication he is probably practicing and religious, regardless of the DUI..."

You thought out the words that you were going to say and typed them. His style of beard is indicative of nothing including his religiosity. In his graduation picture he's clean shaven. The Fort Hood shooter, a Muslim was clean shaven. Wade Michael Page, a white supremacist was bearded at the time of his shooting.

I literally said it's an indication. I did not say all bearded men are Islamic terrorists, beards are the primary or only sign of religious fundamentalism or anything else. Because nuance is obviously lost on you and because you probably just aren't familiar with the religious significance some ascribe to beards, I will give you some background sources:

http://islamqa.info/en/1189

http://www.inter-islam.org/Actions/sotb.html

http://www.justaskislam.com/190/shaving-the-beard-is-it-permissible/

http://www.themodernreligion.com/misc/hh/trimming-beard.html

It is ironic that you are focusing on his beard to prove that he is a "fundamentalist" and citing islamic Q&As about the importance of the beard. I wonder what those same sources would say about drinking, and what that would be an "indication" of

I was not trying to "prove" anything. I merely stated it was an indication. I'm sure those websites would condemn drinking. So what? Maybe he was a cafeteria Muslim, maybe he slipped up and "sinned"... who knows? This probably all adds up to, like Jeff said, a complicated person as people tend to be.

[Anonymous]

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And please don't act like there's no religious significance at all attached to growing a beard. For some there is and some there isn't. Throwing it out there as a likely sign of religiosity is not an unfair observation. It is seen as a sign of piety and about five seconds in Google will show all sorts of religious discussion on the subject.

My dad was Muslim, and used to have a big beard like that growing up. He didn't have it for religious reasons at all - he just liked having a big beard. Plus, it was the 1970's.

Then one day he shaved it off and it wasn't because his religiosity changed.

I think you're more ignorant than you care to admit. Sometimes a beard is just a beard. Sometimes even Muslims have beards that have nothing to do with their Muslim-ness.

To be fair to the poster who mentioned his beard, she clearly didn't mean the beard to be conclusive evidence. Certainly, if he didn't have a beard, some -- probably me among the first -- would have suggested it was a sign that he wasn't religious (at least not religious as it is practiced by Islamic extremists). We simply don't know either way at this point whether Islam played a role. In the absence of knowledge, we are seeking clues about the cause and motivation of the attack.

Thank you! Was just throwing that out there as an indication. Not sure that warrants being equated with a mass murderer.

I disagree with Jeff and think you're full of crap, PP, "I'd say the style of beard he is sporting in his mugshot and other photos is an indication he is probably practicing and religious, regardless of the DUI..."

You thought out the words that you were going to say and typed them. His style of beard is indicative of nothing including his religiosity. In his graduation picture he's clean shaven. The Fort Hood shooter, a Muslim was clean shaven. Wade Michael Page, a white supremacist was bearded at the time of his shooting.

I literally said it's an indication. I did not say all bearded men are Islamic terrorists, beards are the primary or only sign of religious fundamentalism or anything else. Because nuance is obviously lost on you and because you probably just aren't familiar with the religious significance some ascribe to beards, I will give you some background sources:

http://islamqa.info/en/1189

http://www.inter-islam.org/Actions/sotb.html

http://www.justaskislam.com/190/shaving-the-beard-is-it-permissible/

http://www.themodernreligion.com/misc/hh/trimming-beard.html

It is ironic that you are focusing on his beard to prove that he is a "fundamentalist" and citing islamic Q&As about the importance of the beard. I wonder what those same sources would say about drinking, and what that would be an "indication" of

Not that PP. I find it ironic that you're focusing on his DUI or beard as indicative of his status as a good Muslim instead of his killing 4 people and injuring 3 others. That makes him a poor Muslim, IMO.

[Anonymous]

And I was primariy trying to explain the potential religious meaning behind a beard that PPs seem to think does not exist.

[Muslima]

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And please don't act like there's no religious significance at all attached to growing a beard. For some there is and some there isn't. Throwing it out there as a likely sign of religiosity is not an unfair observation. It is seen as a sign of piety and about five seconds in Google will show all sorts of religious discussion on the subject.

My dad was Muslim, and used to have a big beard like that growing up. He didn't have it for religious reasons at all - he just liked having a big beard. Plus, it was the 1970's.

Then one day he shaved it off and it wasn't because his religiosity changed.

I think you're more ignorant than you care to admit. Sometimes a beard is just a beard. Sometimes even Muslims have beards that have nothing to do with their Muslim-ness.

To be fair to the poster who mentioned his beard, she clearly didn't mean the beard to be conclusive evidence. Certainly, if he didn't have a beard, some -- probably me among the first -- would have suggested it was a sign that he wasn't religious (at least not religious as it is practiced by Islamic extremists). We simply don't know either way at this point whether Islam played a role. In the absence of knowledge, we are seeking clues about the cause and motivation of the attack.

Thank you! Was just throwing that out there as an indication. Not sure that warrants being equated with a mass murderer.

I disagree with Jeff and think you're full of crap, PP, "I'd say the style of beard he is sporting in his mugshot and other photos is an indication he is probably practicing and religious, regardless of the DUI..."

You thought out the words that you were going to say and typed them. His style of beard is indicative of nothing including his religiosity. In his graduation picture he's clean shaven. The Fort Hood shooter, a Muslim was clean shaven. Wade Michael Page, a white supremacist was bearded at the time of his shooting.

I literally said it's an indication. I did not say all bearded men are Islamic terrorists, beards are the primary or only sign of religious fundamentalism or anything else. Because nuance is obviously lost on you and because you probably just aren't familiar with the religious significance some ascribe to beards, I will give you some background sources:

http://islamqa.info/en/1189

http://www.inter-islam.org/Actions/sotb.html

http://www.justaskislam.com/190/shaving-the-beard-is-it-permissible/

http://www.themodernreligion.com/misc/hh/trimming-beard.html

It is ironic that you are focusing on his beard to prove that he is a "fundamentalist" and citing islamic Q&As about the importance of the beard. I wonder what those same sources would say about drinking, and what that would be an "indication" of

Not that PP. I find it ironic that you're focusing on his DUI or beard as indicative of his status as a good Muslim instead of his killing 4 people and injuring 3 others. That makes him a poor Muslim, IMO.

I still have not commented on his muslim-ness, didn't know the guy, can't judge his level of faith/practice. I pointed out the irony in trying to prove that he was a fundamentalist because he had a beard while he was busted for a DUI a few months ago and I pointed out that if you love a religion so much that you are supposedly killing in its name, you just might want to follow some of its basic principles, but hey no big deal....

[Anonymous]

Members of the military should be allowed to carry concealed personal weapons if they have a valid gun license, including in DC - period. They should be allowed to do this to protect themselves and their families from ongoing, stated threats by Isis.

[Anonymous]

How could he buy guns? That is the only pertinent question.

[Anonymous]

So this is domestic terrorism but Charleston was not???
Wow!

[Anonymous]

Also check out his senior quote.

To me, that quote just states the obvious -- as a person with a muslim name, it is difficult to assimilate in the US, and that one is always seen as a potential terrorist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Members of the military should be allowed to carry concealed personal weapons if they have a valid gun license, including in DC - period. They should be allowed to do this to protect themselves and their families from ongoing, stated threats by Isis.

There was a no guns sign on the recruitment window no less. That'll deter em

You are 100% correct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So this is domestic terrorism but Charleston was not???
Wow!

Domestic? No. Terrorism by a Muslim foreigner against our US military, just as ISIS asked for? Yes.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So this is domestic terrorism but Charleston was not???
Wow!

Domestic? No. Terrorism by a Muslim foreigner against our US military, just as ISIS asked for? Yes.

He is an American citizen with no known ties to ISIS.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So this is domestic terrorism but Charleston was not???
Wow!

Domestic? No. Terrorism by a Muslim foreigner against our US military, just as ISIS asked for? Yes.

He is an American citizen with no known ties to ISIS.

Who's father is on the terror watch list. Who was not born here. Who shot up a military facility, just like ISIS suggested.

Sorry for the disappointing outcome. Perhaps you should work as hard to ban Muslim symbols here as you do American?

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So this is domestic terrorism but Charleston was not???
Wow!

Domestic? No. Terrorism by a Muslim foreigner against our US military, just as ISIS asked for? Yes.

He is an American citizen with no known ties to ISIS.

Who's father is on the terror watch list. Who was not born here. Who shot up a military facility, just like ISIS suggested.

Sorry for the disappointing outcome. Perhaps you should work as hard to ban Muslim symbols here as you do American?

His father was removed from the watch list and made a special police officer. I've never tried to ban any symbol. What Muslim symbol do you think should be banned?

[Anonymous]

• On June 1, 2009: two soldiers were shot in Little Rock Arkansas by a self proclaimed Jihadist.
• Nov. 5, 2009: Fort Hood Army Base, Texas: Army Maj. Nidal Malik Nadal Hasan, 39, was convicted in August 2013 for killing 13 people and wounding more than 30.
• Sept. 16, 2013: Aaron Alexis, a mentally disturbed civilian contractor, shot 12 people to death at the Washington Navy Yard before he was killed in a police shootout.
• April 2, 2014: At Fort Hood, Texas, three soldiers died and 16 others were wounded in a shooting rampage by another soldier, Army Spc. Ivan A. Lopez, who then killed himself.
• Nov. 13, 2014: Two Navy civilian police officers were wounded while confronting a knife-wielding man at the submarine base in Groton, Connecticut. The suspect was taken into custody.
• June 17, 2015: Guards shot and killed an armed man after he crashed his SUV and emerged holding a rifle while apparently trying to break into the Little Rock Air Force Base in Arkansas.
• July 16, 2015: Four U.S. Marines were killed and three other Americans injured in Chattanooga TN by Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez.