Regretting taking the mommy track

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

OP you were in biglaw expecting to stay as partner/counsel or senior attorney, what was your DH doing during that time? Was he also in biglaw and now has left to go be in some kind of investment realm? It sounds like you expected that he'd stay and make partner -- is that true?

You do realize that partnership isn't in anyone's hands -- not even the best associates out there. In the matter of a few months -- firms can go from saying "you're the best we're definitely making you partner this yr" to "sorry - you're not THAT good, it ain't happening and you can leave." These decisions are all about the finances of the firm, the ebb and flow of work etc. But to be on the "receiving" end of that decision can be horrific for some. I know I for one went into a -- I don't want to be a lawyer, I don't want to work hard ever again bc it never pays off for me -- funk. Now granted I didn't have a family to support so I had the luxury of that pity party, but it's been 18+ months for me and I'm just now starting to re-engage with my career a little bit -- and even now I know I have a long way to go get back to my old self that wants to commit and work hard and try to move up. Any chance your DH is in some kind of funk like that where he's feeling like his professional life is a waste?

I tried to explain that to OP upthread. She isn't getting how capricious the legal industry is and how many "great" attorneys find themselves by the wayside even after giving 150 percent to their firms. It's brutal.

I think the bigger issue is that OP thinks she could have done it better than her DH and resents him for it. That was the fatal flaw in her choice to ramp down. Deciding to mommy track yourself was a personal choice and one OP doesn't own. Instead she blames her DH for either failing to be the success she could have been if she didn't sacrifice her career for the family or blames DH for not doing enough at home to effectively co-parent as a married dual working couple (although in biglaw, OP could have afforded to outsource enough, including white house nannies on sick days to avoid the latter gripe).

Nonetheless, this won't end well. It is almost a cautionary tale.

OP here. As I said, I fully appreciate this. DH and I both worked at top firms and I saw many people come and go over 8 years, and so did he. I was in NY and DC firms for 8 years. Not clueless about the legal industry. Also, I said that I "regret" taking the mommy track. Was my choice, and now I think it was a bad one, so I regret it. Yes, what I was saying is that I think I could have done it better and I wish I had stuck to it because I think I am less flaky. But now, it would be hard to get back in. It has been a while, and we no longer live in the same city so old connections are not as useful. Thus the regret. You seem to be recapping what I said, but just adding in a bizarre know-it-all tone and a lot of drama.

[Anonymous]

He did well in school because he is a professional student. My cousin was married to one who now has two Ph.D.'s. She was the breadwinner and he could never stick to a job, always going back to school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OP you were in biglaw expecting to stay as partner/counsel or senior attorney, what was your DH doing during that time? Was he also in biglaw and now has left to go be in some kind of investment realm? It sounds like you expected that he'd stay and make partner -- is that true?

You do realize that partnership isn't in anyone's hands -- not even the best associates out there. In the matter of a few months -- firms can go from saying "you're the best we're definitely making you partner this yr" to "sorry - you're not THAT good, it ain't happening and you can leave." These decisions are all about the finances of the firm, the ebb and flow of work etc. But to be on the "receiving" end of that decision can be horrific for some. I know I for one went into a -- I don't want to be a lawyer, I don't want to work hard ever again bc it never pays off for me -- funk. Now granted I didn't have a family to support so I had the luxury of that pity party, but it's been 18+ months for me and I'm just now starting to re-engage with my career a little bit -- and even now I know I have a long way to go get back to my old self that wants to commit and work hard and try to move up. Any chance your DH is in some kind of funk like that where he's feeling like his professional life is a waste?

I tried to explain that to OP upthread. She isn't getting how capricious the legal industry is and how many "great" attorneys find themselves by the wayside even after giving 150 percent to their firms. It's brutal.

I think the bigger issue is that OP thinks she could have done it better than her DH and resents him for it. That was the fatal flaw in her choice to ramp down. Deciding to mommy track yourself was a personal choice and one OP doesn't own. Instead she blames her DH for either failing to be the success she could have been if she didn't sacrifice her career for the family or blames DH for not doing enough at home to effectively co-parent as a married dual working couple (although in biglaw, OP could have afforded to outsource enough, including white house nannies on sick days to avoid the latter gripe).

Nonetheless, this won't end well. It is almost a cautionary tale.

OP here. As I said, I fully appreciate this. DH and I both worked at top firms and I saw many people come and go over 8 years, and so did he. I was in NY and DC firms for 8 years. Not clueless about the legal industry. Also, I said that I "regret" taking the mommy track. Was my choice, and now I think it was a bad one, so I regret it. Yes, what I was saying is that I think I could have done it better and I wish I had stuck to it because I think I am less flaky. But now, it would be hard to get back in. It has been a while, and we no longer live in the same city so old connections are not as useful. Thus the regret. You seem to be recapping what I said, but just adding in a bizarre know-it-all tone and a lot of drama.

+1
I have no advice, but I love you, OP-- you sound smart, direct, and focused. You'll figure it out. Don't listen to the know-it-all judgey types on here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sigh. I am going to give it to you straight even though you should know better. The legal industry is a mess and people are either getting laid off or finding their careers completely stagnant. Knowing this, with a two attorney household, you should expect that your husband's ability to be a super duper earner is shaky at best.

And don't pretend your earning ability is rock solid either. Your decision to mommy track yourself wasn't a but for event. You were just as unlikely to make partner or be a big shot as he was.

But that's neither here nor there. What the problem is -- you have an expectation that because you mommy tracked yourself and sacrificed your "Greatness," your DH better be a crazy success. That's not only unreasonable, it's stupid because of the reasons I put above. The legal industry is a mess and making big bucks without connections (and I mean hella connections) is a game of lotto.

I am going to guess you have spent years fuming about your wasted potential. And I am going to guess that you are incredibly resentful of your DH because if you weren't running everything at home, you would have been that success story he isn't.

You need to take responsibility of your own future. You need to let go of the resentment and really be a partner.

Your DH also needs to get his head out of his ass. He's probably depressed because he's not the success he was expected to be. He's probably under an incredible amount of pressure and that is a big reason men disengage. No one wants to feel like a loser. They don't want to face the reality so they pull away. And we make it easy for them by pushing them right out the door (you already have a foot out, OP. Honey, take a breath and check yourself before jumping into single parenting land).

Therapy, OP. For yourself first to deal with resentment. And for your DH separately to deal with his failure to be the success he probably desperately wants to be. And together to see if you two can reconnect and let go of what things "should be" and build on what things are.

Ditto. This is really great advice. I know it's hard to hear OP, but please take this advice to heart. FWiW- I'm a DW and a lawyer. PP is dead on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow, that got rude and unhelpful quickly. Thanks to the early responders. Complicated issue and like I said, I am not at the point of seriously considering divorce. But, the cycle of "this is the one, now we can just be stable" and then six months later, DH changing his mind, cannot be ignored at this point. I am having trouble mustering the strength to support him through more transitions. I really would be unable to quantify the hours spent discussing and coaching him through these, often to the detriment of my own work, which, for better or worse, is the most stable thing we have. Obviously I realize I can't just jump back into biglaw and make partner tomorrow; I believe I have described this as a risk several times and discussed potentially switching roles where I am now to make a bit more money. I also don't resent him for taking away my chance at "greatness"; I just wish I had stayed in a higher paying job. I would be happy to be a "senior attorney" or whatever it is when you kind of stay at the law firm forever as a senior associate at this point. I don't need to live in a mansion or drive a fancy car; I just would like some stability and not to worry about money a lot of the time. There just seems to be a lot of unnecessary stress in our lives, and I am lamenting my lack of foresight and considering how I might minimize the stress through my own actions going forward. Therapy doesn't really solve financial problems, although I agree it's always helpful to talk things out. Also, I am not sure therapy can erase resentment when you have to continue to live with someone who is not pulling their weight by anyone's standards. I'm not sure how calling me an asshole for dealing with what I suspect is a pretty common problem really helps.

I'm the DW PP. One more thing to add- you show how clueless you are with your dream of being "um that senior attormey or whatever it is when you kind of stay at a law firm forever as a senior associate." Do you have any idea how a Firm operates? Have you paid attention to the legal market for the past 5 or so years? Those jobs simply don't exist and your lack of understanding solidifies my suspicion that you really wouldn't have made it at a Firm anyway. I know this is harsh, but get a grip with reality, then get yourself into some counseling, and stop with the coulda, woulda, shoulda.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, that got rude and unhelpful quickly. Thanks to the early responders. Complicated issue and like I said, I am not at the point of seriously considering divorce. But, the cycle of "this is the one, now we can just be stable" and then six months later, DH changing his mind, cannot be ignored at this point. I am having trouble mustering the strength to support him through more transitions. I really would be unable to quantify the hours spent discussing and coaching him through these, often to the detriment of my own work, which, for better or worse, is the most stable thing we have. Obviously I realize I can't just jump back into biglaw and make partner tomorrow; I believe I have described this as a risk several times and discussed potentially switching roles where I am now to make a bit more money. I also don't resent him for taking away my chance at "greatness"; I just wish I had stayed in a higher paying job. I would be happy to be a "senior attorney" or whatever it is when you kind of stay at the law firm forever as a senior associate at this point. I don't need to live in a mansion or drive a fancy car; I just would like some stability and not to worry about money a lot of the time. There just seems to be a lot of unnecessary stress in our lives, and I am lamenting my lack of foresight and considering how I might minimize the stress through my own actions going forward. Therapy doesn't really solve financial problems, although I agree it's always helpful to talk things out. Also, I am not sure therapy can erase resentment when you have to continue to live with someone who is not pulling their weight by anyone's standards. I'm not sure how calling me an asshole for dealing with what I suspect is a pretty common problem really helps.

I'm the DW PP. One more thing to add- you show how clueless you are with your dream of being "um that senior attormey or whatever it is when you kind of stay at a law firm forever as a senior associate." Do you have any idea how a Firm operates? Have you paid attention to the legal market for the past 5 or so years? Those jobs simply don't exist and your lack of understanding solidifies my suspicion that you really wouldn't have made it at a Firm anyway. I know this is harsh, but get a grip with reality, then get yourself into some counseling, and stop with the coulda, woulda, shoulda.

Yes, as I have said repeatedly, I was a very highly respected associate at 2 top-tier law firms in the top 2 legal markets in the country and understand very well who succeeds there and who fails. Had I stayed, based on years of plum assignments, bonuses, and great reviews, I think I would have made counsel or, in the alternative, senior attorney.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OP you were in biglaw expecting to stay as partner/counsel or senior attorney, what was your DH doing during that time? Was he also in biglaw and now has left to go be in some kind of investment realm? It sounds like you expected that he'd stay and make partner -- is that true?

You do realize that partnership isn't in anyone's hands -- not even the best associates out there. In the matter of a few months -- firms can go from saying "you're the best we're definitely making you partner this yr" to "sorry - you're not THAT good, it ain't happening and you can leave." These decisions are all about the finances of the firm, the ebb and flow of work etc. But to be on the "receiving" end of that decision can be horrific for some. I know I for one went into a -- I don't want to be a lawyer, I don't want to work hard ever again bc it never pays off for me -- funk. Now granted I didn't have a family to support so I had the luxury of that pity party, but it's been 18+ months for me and I'm just now starting to re-engage with my career a little bit -- and even now I know I have a long way to go get back to my old self that wants to commit and work hard and try to move up. Any chance your DH is in some kind of funk like that where he's feeling like his professional life is a waste?

I tried to explain that to OP upthread. She isn't getting how capricious the legal industry is and how many "great" attorneys find themselves by the wayside even after giving 150 percent to their firms. It's brutal.

I think the bigger issue is that OP thinks she could have done it better than her DH and resents him for it. That was the fatal flaw in her choice to ramp down. Deciding to mommy track yourself was a personal choice and one OP doesn't own. Instead she blames her DH for either failing to be the success she could have been if she didn't sacrifice her career for the family or blames DH for not doing enough at home to effectively co-parent as a married dual working couple (although in biglaw, OP could have afforded to outsource enough, including white house nannies on sick days to avoid the latter gripe).

Nonetheless, this won't end well. It is almost a cautionary tale.

OP here. As I said, I fully appreciate this. DH and I both worked at top firms and I saw many people come and go over 8 years, and so did he. I was in NY and DC firms for 8 years. Not clueless about the legal industry. Also, I said that I "regret" taking the mommy track. Was my choice, and now I think it was a bad one, so I regret it. Yes, what I was saying is that I think I could have done it better and I wish I had stuck to it because I think I am less flaky. But now, it would be hard to get back in. It has been a while, and we no longer live in the same city so old connections are not as useful. Thus the regret. You seem to be recapping what I said, but just adding in a bizarre know-it-all tone and a lot of drama.

+1
I have no advice, but I love you, OP-- you sound smart, direct, and focused. You'll figure it out. Don't listen to the know-it-all judgey types on here.

Aw, thanks, PP. I think the PPs are lawyers, but maybe have not worked in the same positions as DH and I have, but somehow think they are experts on BigLaw. Typical DCUM.

[Anonymous]

I actually was in biglaw for 8 yrs but didn't make partner so I get where you're coming from OP and won't lecture. But I will say if you're in NYC now but your contacts are in DC or vice versa, don't hesitate to 1-2 people you were close with back then; the two legal markets are closely tied and you never know if your contacts can make intros in the other market.

[Anonymous]

I'm a pp whose DH made it and is very successful. I still regret taking the mommy track and eventually becoming a SAHM. I find that I tend to take out my frustrations out on DH and blame him for my regrets. We made those choices together. If he had been less successful and did not work such long hours, I think I could have accomplished more professionally. I am ivy league educated and used to outearn my DH before we had kids.

I don't think it is too late for you, OP. You sound smart. Many women and men switch to in-house counsel. Could you ramp up and get one of those positions? It may be difficult for you to go back to biglaw but not too late to still have a successful and lucrative career.

Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I actually was in biglaw for 8 yrs but didn't make partner so I get where you're coming from OP and won't lecture. But I will say if you're in NYC now but your contacts are in DC or vice versa, don't hesitate to 1-2 people you were close with back then; the two legal markets are closely tied and you never know if your contacts can make intros in the other market.

Thanks. I'm no longer in either DC or NY. I have thought it through and I think my best bet is to try to keep getting raises/promotions where I am now (academia). I think going back to a big firm is likely unrealistic given how long it's been. I just wonder what things would have been like had I stayed. Still, I am eternally grateful for all the time I have spent with my children over the past several years. DH and I have discussed it and he seems to get where I am coming from and what he could do to make life a little more stable and consistent. Hopefully we are on the road to recovery

[Anonymous]

First, you need to absolve your husband of guilt and blame. His "mistakes" were done with your permission (loss of assets), and its absolutely inappropriate and unfair to assume his personal career values and aspirations should match yours. So right now, focus on you, your aspirations, and what you plan (with your husband) to do about them. The road might be harder to get back on the on- ramp to big law, but it can be done. So hop to it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First, you need to absolve your husband of guilt and blame. His "mistakes" were done with your permission (loss of assets), and its absolutely inappropriate and unfair to assume his personal career values and aspirations should match yours. So right now, focus on you, your aspirations, and what you plan (with your husband) to do about them. The road might be harder to get back on the on- ramp to big law, but it can be done. So hop to it.

Oops, just read yr prior post. Sounds great! Good luck op. Just remember, if big law is what you want, focus and strive for it. Don't regret waiting even longer... If you don't, remember that was your choice.

[Anonymous]

Nice, happy ending, op! I'll say that big law and parenting young kids is a shitty combination. There's little allowance for family needs and caretaking. I know my parents took a slower route in their professional lives when we kids were growing up. Turns out my mom had the more ambitious career drive in her 50s and 60s, so when we were grown up, she went into full throttle and loved it. It was the right time for her--kids grown up, no grandkids, a lot of experience and wisdom to do it well. The lifetime of networking didn't hurt, either.

She partnered with another woman of similar circumstances and kicked some serious pre- retirement ass for two decades before slowing down again. Mentored other rising professional women, too--sensitive to their competing family obligations and desires.

Consider the long term vision. This could be you, too? You might have it in you.

[Anonymous]

OP, don't be so sure that you made the wrong choice. I'll bet when you are older, you will be glad you had more time with your kids even though there was some financial sacrifice as your husband ended up be a dud (and who I would resent too). But my only caution is beware that you may not be as motivated in 5 years as you were when you were 27. And then the change to big law could be really hard. I never mommy tracked and make way too much money compared to the hardworking more motivated younger staff. Raising kids takes it out of you---in a great way. But do not be surprised if it is a little harder---even though it is clear you are very bright. I am 50 and pretty tired every day at work. Great work and people but much harder to get motivated. I mean this advice to be helpful. Good Luck OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, don't be so sure that you made the wrong choice. I'll bet when you are older, you will be glad you had more time with your kids even though there was some financial sacrifice as your husband ended up be a dud (and who I would resent too). But my only caution is beware that you may not be as motivated in 5 years as you were when you were 27. And then the change to big law could be really hard. I never mommy tracked and make way too much money compared to the hardworking more motivated younger staff. Raising kids takes it out of you---in a great way. But do not be surprised if it is a little harder---even though it is clear you are very bright. I am 50 and pretty tired every day at work. Great work and people but much harder to get motivated. I mean this advice to be helpful. Good Luck OP.

Thanks. I realize that and I am going to focus on succeeding where I am, which will allow me to continue to be with my kids a lot. I am hopeful that DH can buckle down (after thoroughly discussing it with him). We will see