Octuplet mom: Can you justify that level of anger in public?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster here. I do "have wealth" and I am not sending her a cent. That would be enabling her behavior. I give money to people and causes that interest me and for whom I feel compassion. Some whackjob who decides to have 14 kids with no job and no way to care for them is not on that list. She doesn't even take care of the ones she had before; the state pays for a nanny because of the autistic kid according to People Magazine. I feel sorry for the kids for having such a trainwreck of a mother, but I am not going to enable her.

Usually people like you don't donate very much anyhow. I'm curious, what charities do you donate to?

None of your business. Who I do choose to donate to is up to me. It's my money after all. I reject the ridiculous notion started in this thread that somehow I have an obligation to give to Octomom. That same sentiment is why we have run-away jury verdicts in this country. That big corporation can afford to pay so let's give those people suing them some money even though that company did nothing wrong. The company can afford it.

If I wanted to subsidize 14 kids, I would have had another 12 of my own. And, yes, I could afford to.

When you get cancer and realize your insurance is lousy and doesn't cover everything, you better not rely on anyone or any state assistance then. When you get old and can't work and realize that you're getting major illnesses, you better not get Medicare then. That time may not be far away.

Corp. do not pay out or settle if it means it will tarnish their name. They pay out for those cases for which it is more costly to take to court than to settle but not if it means their reputation is at stake. In these cases, they will fight and they can afford to because they often have the finest legal teams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. Wow. Wow. With the mean-spiritness on this board, it makes me want to move to Europe permanently to be around more compassionate people.

Good luck with that.

Do you have some information about the pitfalls of living in Europe that you'd like to share with us rather than throwing out one-liners? Have you lived in Europe before? Which country and what city? Please do tell.

People in Switzerland enjoy a higher standard of living than U.S. citizens and people are happier there. And yes, people are nicer there.

I just heard on CNN that the police all over this country are worried about a summer of rage due to the recession. Perhaps that other poster was right - people's lack of compassion can be attributed to the recession. NObody is responsible for the recession than this country and the bankers that make up some of the people living here.

Europe is great if you are white.

Now we've totally gotten off the topic, but seriously, what happens in Europe if you're not white?

I am not the one who said Europe was great if you were white, but I tend to agree.

I lived in the UK with my Asian husband, and let me tell you, there was no loosing him in a crowd. People would stare at us, and make comments all the time. When we were in Germany, it was worse. To add to it, there was another couple, who had a white wife, and an Asian husband, and our tour guide would totally get us confused. I doubt she confused who was married to whom because we were all American.

Oh, then there was the time when I was young and single, in Germany alone, and I was approached by some neo-Nazis on a train. I was completely uninterested in everything they had to say, and grabbed my stuff and changed cars.

Honestly though, I have spent time in Germany, Austria, England, and Ireland, and I don't find people to be any nicer there than here.

Germany has a growing nazi movement as I heard too. But as for the UK being white, not true from my experience. It has a huge Indian, Pakistani population. In fact, indian food is the rage in the UK as a result of a huge Indian population.

There are other countries besides Germany and UK in Europe. Spain is very diverse for example.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster here. I do "have wealth" and I am not sending her a cent. That would be enabling her behavior. I give money to people and causes that interest me and for whom I feel compassion. Some whackjob who decides to have 14 kids with no job and no way to care for them is not on that list. She doesn't even take care of the ones she had before; the state pays for a nanny because of the autistic kid according to People Magazine. I feel sorry for the kids for having such a trainwreck of a mother, but I am not going to enable her.

Usually people like you don't donate very much anyhow. I'm curious, what charities do you donate to?

Not the poster you quote but I am wondering what you mean by your "people like you" statement? You mean, the kind of person who actually advocates a level of personal responsibility? Giving money to this woman would be like giving an alcoholic whiskey. Do you think she would even spend it on the kids? The most charitable thing that could be done for this woman is for the state to intervene and terminate her parental rights until she receives the psychiatric help she clearly needs. This is a woman who somehow manages to spend money on manicures, expensive make-up, multiple IVFs and, I believe, plastic surgery, but cannot support her brood. Why would anyone donate to her and and reward her poor decisions?

Allowing her babies to receive help through donations is not enabling her behavior. It's recognizing that she may have some psychological issues but being able to separate our emotional reaction to her from her babies' needs. If a drug addict mom has a drug baby, do we not allocate state assistance to help her drug baby? Of course we do. Will that mean that it now enables the drug mom to keep doing drugs? And what do you suggest is a better alternative - don't feed the babies and let them die, all 8 of them? If that is what you are proposing, then you are not just cold hearted, you are barely human.

So 'people like you' is a reference to all those people who are so holier than thou and so full of hate and intolerance and compassion that they don't want any needy person to get any money or assistance. Just wait until you are 86 and not able to work and in need of Medicare because you thought it was a great idea to get a 2 year college degree in fashion merchandising and was never able to save up enough money to support yourself in old age. At that time, I wonder if you'd want someone telling you "Hey, buck up lady, where's your sense of personal responsibility? Why didn't you save up enough money to care for yourself? "

Nadya clearly has some psyc issues. None, however, that warrant terminating her parental rights. Before you go throwing around phrases like that, think. Terminating parental rights is a legal term. There is a wealth of case law and codified state law to define what it involves and who it can be used for. I am amused when people throw this term around as if they understand what it really means. Terminating parental rights is often reserved for extreme neglect or abuse such as with drug addicts, extreme physical abuse, complete neglect. The kind of neglect that woudl give rise to terminating parental rights might be a parent who does not change a diaper for days and therefore a child develops an infection, an extremely malnourished child, a child whose fever turns into seizures because the parent never took the child to a doctor or gave the child any meds.

People who have a giving heart don't hold a qualifications list over the head of someone in need. Whether they be a drug addict or a mom with psyc issues who has 14 kids with invitro, they are seen by giving people as people who may have issues but are still in need of help. They deserve a right to be fed, to be clothed, to receive psychiatric treatment, to have their babies be cared for.

People who don't get psych treatment sometimes do crazy things. People with severe psych issues who can't afford treatment and don't get state assistance can go on to murder, rape, assault, commit arson, and commit worse crimes if their problems are left untreated. Nadya had issues, clearly, and I think the result of her getting invitro is because she never got treatment for her issues. So the solution is to get her psych help, not to wish her to die and for her children to be motherless.

PP, I didn't get a degree in fashion merchandising. I got a four-year degree, earned a lot of money, bought a house and actually waited to have children until I could afford them.

I agree with you that the Mom needs help but that doesn't mean the kids should remain in her care until she gets straightened out. Apparently, at least one other person agrees with me on this.

http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/02/70871/index.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster here. I do "have wealth" and I am not sending her a cent. That would be enabling her behavior. I give money to people and causes that interest me and for whom I feel compassion. Some whackjob who decides to have 14 kids with no job and no way to care for them is not on that list. She doesn't even take care of the ones she had before; the state pays for a nanny because of the autistic kid according to People Magazine. I feel sorry for the kids for having such a trainwreck of a mother, but I am not going to enable her.

Usually people like you don't donate very much anyhow. I'm curious, what charities do you donate to?

None of your business. Who I do choose to donate to is up to me. It's my money after all. I reject the ridiculous notion started in this thread that somehow I have an obligation to give to Octomom. That same sentiment is why we have run-away jury verdicts in this country. That big corporation can afford to pay so let's give those people suing them some money even though that company did nothing wrong. The company can afford it.

If I wanted to subsidize 14 kids, I would have had another 12 of my own. And, yes, I could afford to.

When you get cancer and realize your insurance is lousy and doesn't cover everything, you better not rely on anyone or any state assistance then. When you get old and can't work and realize that you're getting major illnesses, you better not get Medicare then. That time may not be far away.

Corp. do not pay out or settle if it means it will tarnish their name. They pay out for those cases for which it is more costly to take to court than to settle but not if it means their reputation is at stake. In these cases, they will fight and they can afford to because they often have the finest legal teams.

Gimme a break, PP. This woman willingly put herself in the situation she is in. No, she didn't get ill and she isn't elderly. She PAID multiple times to undergo IVF to have more children she was unable to support.

[Anonymous]

What about the fact that the Octomom tricked the father into giving her sperm? She told him that she had cervical cancer, and she needed his sperm, pronto. She had all these embryos frozen since the first treatment too, so I think she wanted them all implanted at once, because she wanted to be the freak show she is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
PP, I didn't get a degree in fashion merchandising. I got a four-year degree, earned a lot of money, bought a house and actually waited to have children until I could afford them.

I agree with you that the Mom needs help but that doesn't mean the kids should remain in her care until she gets straightened out. Apparently, at least one other person agrees with me on this.

http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/02/70871/index.html

Poster, check this out - a word from Nadya Suleman's father regarding Dr. Carole Lieberman http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1497601/radio_psychiatrist_files_complaint.html?singlepage=true

Dr. Carole Lieberman has called Nadya's 8 children a "litter." She said humans don't have 8 children, dogs do. So how much credibility does a doctor have who calls newborn human babies a term used only for dogs? This woman is depraved and a sicko herself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, I didn't get a degree in fashion merchandising. I got a four-year degree, earned a lot of money, bought a house and actually waited to have children until I could afford them.

I agree with you that the Mom needs help but that doesn't mean the kids should remain in her care until she gets straightened out. Apparently, at least one other person agrees with me on this.

Yes, and I suppose the majority of fashion merchandising majors will remain independently wealthy to not ever need Medicare or any state assistance when they are elderly?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What about the fact that the Octomom tricked the father into giving her sperm? She told him that she had cervical cancer, and she needed his sperm, pronto. She had all these embryos frozen since the first treatment too, so I think she wanted them all implanted at once, because she wanted to be the freak show she is.

IF this was credible it would have been all over CNN and Fox and the Assoc Press would have reported it. Likely it was reported on that other highly reputable source that the previous poster quoted from - ET.

Can there be any greater idiot who believes he must give up his sperm, pronto, because a friend has cervical cancer? I doubt it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster here. I do "have wealth" and I am not sending her a cent. That would be enabling her behavior. I give money to people and causes that interest me and for whom I feel compassion. Some whackjob who decides to have 14 kids with no job and no way to care for them is not on that list. She doesn't even take care of the ones she had before; the state pays for a nanny because of the autistic kid according to People Magazine. I feel sorry for the kids for having such a trainwreck of a mother, but I am not going to enable her.

Usually people like you don't donate very much anyhow. I'm curious, what charities do you donate to?

None of your business. Who I do choose to donate to is up to me. It's my money after all. I reject the ridiculous notion started in this thread that somehow I have an obligation to give to Octomom. That same sentiment is why we have run-away jury verdicts in this country. That big corporation can afford to pay so let's give those people suing them some money even though that company did nothing wrong. The company can afford it.

If I wanted to subsidize 14 kids, I would have had another 12 of my own. And, yes, I could afford to.

When you get cancer and realize your insurance is lousy and doesn't cover everything, you better not rely on anyone or any state assistance then. When you get old and can't work and realize that you're getting major illnesses, you better not get Medicare then. That time may not be far away.

Corp. do not pay out or settle if it means it will tarnish their name. They pay out for those cases for which it is more costly to take to court than to settle but not if it means their reputation is at stake. In these cases, they will fight and they can afford to because they often have the finest legal teams.

Gimme a break, PP. This woman willingly put herself in the situation she is in. No, she didn't get ill and she isn't elderly. She PAID multiple times to undergo IVF to have more children she was unable to support.

Our society feels sorry for those who are elderly and unable to work and dont' have adequate health insurance..so we provide Medicare. We provide food stamps and other assistance to families who have parents out of work and unable to feed themselves. Why don't we make an argument that these families just should have gotten a better education when they were younger? Perhaps then they wouldn't be out of work, then wouldn't need state assistance. Our society feels sorry for the drug baby who is born whose mother can scarcely take care of her and who oftentimes doesn't even care for her. So we provide support for that baby, despite what her mother has done. We don't ask why they didn't do better in life, we just help them financially and expect them to eventually get out of state dependence. We need to do the same for Nadya Suleman's children. Nobody needs to give Nadya Nordstrom spending money or money for manicures. But her kids do deserve food, clothing, shelter, and medical care. Absolutely. I am very very proud that we live in a country that does try to care for it's poor and needy and ill. There are still many who our system does not help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What about the fact that the Octomom tricked the father into giving her sperm? She told him that she had cervical cancer, and she needed his sperm, pronto. She had all these embryos frozen since the first treatment too, so I think she wanted them all implanted at once, because she wanted to be the freak show she is.

IF this was credible it would have been all over CNN and Fox and the Assoc Press would have reported it. Likely it was reported on that other highly reputable source that the previous poster quoted from - ET.

Can there be any greater idiot who believes he must give up his sperm, pronto, because a friend has cervical cancer? I doubt it.

Good Morning America ran the story.

[Anonymous]

I hope that social services will keep a close eye on her children. I think that because this is such a high profile case they probably will. I personally can't imagine being able to feed 8 newborns, let alone care for the rest of the kids. The best outcome would be that she gets enough volunteers and help to care for her family, as well as getting some therapy herself. But I doubt it's going to turn out that way. What a crazy situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster here. I do "have wealth" and I am not sending her a cent. That would be enabling her behavior. I give money to people and causes that interest me and for whom I feel compassion. Some whackjob who decides to have 14 kids with no job and no way to care for them is not on that list. She doesn't even take care of the ones she had before; the state pays for a nanny because of the autistic kid according to People Magazine. I feel sorry for the kids for having such a trainwreck of a mother, but I am not going to enable her.

Usually people like you don't donate very much anyhow. I'm curious, what charities do you donate to?

Not the poster you quote but I am wondering what you mean by your "people like you" statement? You mean, the kind of person who actually advocates a level of personal responsibility? Giving money to this woman would be like giving an alcoholic whiskey. Do you think she would even spend it on the kids? The most charitable thing that could be done for this woman is for the state to intervene and terminate her parental rights until she receives the psychiatric help she clearly needs. This is a woman who somehow manages to spend money on manicures, expensive make-up, multiple IVFs and, I believe, plastic surgery, but cannot support her brood. Why would anyone donate to her and and reward her poor decisions?

Allowing her babies to receive help through donations is not enabling her behavior. It's recognizing that she may have some psychological issues but being able to separate our emotional reaction to her from her babies' needs. If a drug addict mom has a drug baby, do we not allocate state assistance to help her drug baby? Of course we do. Will that mean that it now enables the drug mom to keep doing drugs? And what do you suggest is a better alternative - don't feed the babies and let them die, all 8 of them? If that is what you are proposing, then you are not just cold hearted, you are barely human.

So 'people like you' is a reference to all those people who are so holier than thou and so full of hate and intolerance and compassion that they don't want any needy person to get any money or assistance. Just wait until you are 86 and not able to work and in need of Medicare because you thought it was a great idea to get a 2 year college degree in fashion merchandising and was never able to save up enough money to support yourself in old age. At that time, I wonder if you'd want someone telling you "Hey, buck up lady, where's your sense of personal responsibility? Why didn't you save up enough money to care for yourself? "

Nadya clearly has some psyc issues. None, however, that warrant terminating her parental rights. Before you go throwing around phrases like that, think. Terminating parental rights is a legal term. There is a wealth of case law and codified state law to define what it involves and who it can be used for. I am amused when people throw this term around as if they understand what it really means. Terminating parental rights is often reserved for extreme neglect or abuse such as with drug addicts, extreme physical abuse, complete neglect. The kind of neglect that woudl give rise to terminating parental rights might be a parent who does not change a diaper for days and therefore a child develops an infection, an extremely malnourished child, a child whose fever turns into seizures because the parent never took the child to a doctor or gave the child any meds.

People who have a giving heart don't hold a qualifications list over the head of someone in need. Whether they be a drug addict or a mom with psyc issues who has 14 kids with invitro, they are seen by giving people as people who may have issues but are still in need of help. They deserve a right to be fed, to be clothed, to receive psychiatric treatment, to have their babies be cared for.

People who don't get psych treatment sometimes do crazy things. People with severe psych issues who can't afford treatment and don't get state assistance can go on to murder, rape, assault, commit arson, and commit worse crimes if their problems are left untreated. Nadya had issues, clearly, and I think the result of her getting invitro is because she never got treatment for her issues. So the solution is to get her psych help, not to wish her to die and for her children to be motherless.

I think you are overreacting. No one on this board has suggested that they wish Nadya dead. And , in fact, many people have posted that they wish the babies could have parents who are responsible, loving and mature--ie--adoptive parents. Those babies are darling and they each deserve a chance at a wonderful life. Many doubt that Nadya has the emotional maturity to provide this.And , I believe, time will show this to be true.(As has already been shown to be true with her previous 6)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. Wow. Wow. With the mean-spiritness on this board, it makes me want to move to Europe permanently to be around more compassionate people.

Good luck with that.

Do you have some information about the pitfalls of living in Europe that you'd like to share with us rather than throwing out one-liners? Have you lived in Europe before? Which country and what city? Please do tell.

People in Switzerland enjoy a higher standard of living than U.S. citizens and people are happier there. And yes, people are nicer there.

I just heard on CNN that the police all over this country are worried about a summer of rage due to the recession. Perhaps that other poster was right - people's lack of compassion can be attributed to the recession. NObody is responsible for the recession than this country and the bankers that make up some of the people living here.

Have you already forgotten about the race riots in London last summer?!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Nadya clearly has some psyc issues. None, however, that warrant terminating her parental rights. Before you go throwing around phrases like that, think. Terminating parental rights is a legal term. There is a wealth of case law and codified state law to define what it involves and who it can be used for. I am amused when people throw this term around as if they understand what it really means. Terminating parental rights is often reserved for extreme neglect or abuse such as with drug addicts, extreme physical abuse, complete neglect. The kind of neglect that woudl give rise to terminating parental rights might be a parent who does not change a diaper for days and therefore a child develops an infection, an extremely malnourished child, a child whose fever turns into seizures because the parent never took the child to a doctor or gave the child any meds.

New poster. I don't disagree with the PP that there is a legal definition for terminating parental rights. Personally, I think we should raise the bar on parenting and make it easier for the state to intervene. I'm not a perfect parent, but we will never break the cycle of poverty, bad parenting, and lack of progress if the only people we think are "bad" parents are drug addicts, physical abusers, and those who completely neglect (whatever that means) their kids. Yes, I think the state should step in and find a way to give these kids a chance with people who can do more than "hold them and give them a lot of love," which is what NS says she plans to do. That's just not enough and it is unfair that these kids will suffer from her selfish stupidity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. Wow. Wow. With the mean-spiritness on this board, it makes me want to move to Europe permanently to be around more compassionate people.

Good luck with that.

Do you have some information about the pitfalls of living in Europe that you'd like to share with us rather than throwing out one-liners? Have you lived in Europe before? Which country and what city? Please do tell.

People in Switzerland enjoy a higher standard of living than U.S. citizens and people are happier there. And yes, people are nicer there.

I just heard on CNN that the police all over this country are worried about a summer of rage due to the recession. Perhaps that other poster was right - people's lack of compassion can be attributed to the recession. NObody is responsible for the recession than this country and the bankers that make up some of the people living here.

Have you already forgotten about the race riots in London last summer?!!!!

Or in Paris 2 years ago?