Octuplet mom: Can you justify that level of anger in public?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Okay, I'm going to play devil's advocate here...

Should we then take the numerous kids that single moms today are having away from them and place them in adoptive homes too?

This octuplet mom has the support at least of her parents and a home to live in. She has an education but is not able to use it because she's caring for the kids now. Single moms with numerous kids in DC rarely have that kind of support or that kind of an education.

There was a family on TV with a couple who had 18 kids (they are religious and do not believe in birth control). Nobody is taking their children away. I doubt highly the father is able to support his kids, send his kids to college on just his income alone. Impossible. I'm sure they are receiving some degree of support. Why haven't we taken their children away?

Why are people looking to rip this mom of her parental rights and instead have helped other families with 8, 14, 18 kids? Is it really just because people are angry at the poor economic times and are looking to bash anyone who appears to be sucking off the system? If so, this is also hypocritical. What about every single person in the unemployment line. I'd like to know how far they got in their education? Do they have a PhD in chemical engineering and are still collecting unemployment insurance? Doubtful. More likely they scarcely have a degree and that is why they're in the unemployment insurance line...yes, sucking off the system too just like the octuplet mom. Had they completed their education, maybe majored in something that is in demand such as IT or medicine or engineering, nursing, or physical therapy they would not need to suck off the system. So how can they say their situation is vastly different from octuplet mom? I would rather my tax dollars go to supporting babies than grown adults who made bad decisions in not completing their education or majoring in areas not in demand by the market.

My grandmother had 12 children. My grandfather died when the kids were teenagers. But the vast majority of them still got a college education. Several got MBA's and PhD's also. She did this with community support. Some of these children, my uncles, are now community leaders and leaders in their occupation. They now donate to charities themselves and support veterans associations, march of dimes, cancer associations, etc...They are productive and giving adults. But the children were not split up from their mother. Instead, the community kept them together but simply provided help.

So before you think to terminate parental rights (done in the most heinous of circumstances such as a drug addict parent, exteme neglect) or talk about splitting the family up, look inyour ownhouse and ask if you have ever received any help from the system or if there are people in your back yard whose families should also be split up.

Honestly, you are misinformed. The family you referenced with 18 children is in fact self-supporting. Furthermore, whether or not a parent can afford to send a child/children to college doesn't play into the equation -- no one is calling for families to be split up because the parents can't come up with college tuition. Octuplet mom's parents are in foreclosure. They can't support her financially and aren't even behind her emotionally.

Why is it so hard to understand that people are pissed off because she had 8 at once when she couldn't even afford the six she already had? The delivery fee itself was more money than the average derelict mother in DC could ever dream of getting over the course of her lifetime. And at least her kids, being born one at a time, have a shot at being neurologically normal.

Why are people so eager to explore the reasons for the backlash against octuplet mom? It's really not that complicated.

[Anonymous]

I think the Dr. who implanted 8 embryos should help pay for the octuplets' care. Or Octomom can give them to Angelina and Brad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The difference with the Octomom situation is that she put the health of 8 tiny babies in serious jeopardy by doing what she did.

THe alternative would have been to:
1) Destroy the embryo's but due to her belief that embryos are life, she did not want to do that.
2) Implant only 2 at a time - she did not want to freeze the embryo's because the thawing out process destroys many embryo's

Would it have been better to have those embroyo's destroyed or frozen and run the risk of having them not survive the thawing out process?

Yes, she put them in jeopardy but so does the 38-40 year old mom who chooses to have a child with her increased liklihood of genetic disorders and chromosomal abnormalities, so does the mother who already has one special needs child such as with autism but chooses to have more children, so does any mother who has a direct relative with a disease or disorder severe enough to require state aid such as autism, but still opts to have children, so does the adult who regularly lives off of hamburgers and french fries and then gets sick with cancer or diabetes without decent medical insurance.

CNN just reported last night that the babies are actually healthy btw. You can't say until the children are about 2 whether they have serious neurological disorders. They may have issues, but maybe none severe enough that would make the child a dependent of the state.

First, yes, it would have been better if she had donated the embryos or given them to science so that they could help someone else.

Second, 1, if not more, of her kids ALREADY HAS AUTISM (another one of them definitely has some other kind of disorder that qualifies her for state aid). Your defense about not having more kids once people have one with autism definitely falls apart here.

I agree with those who say these babies should be adopted out to mentally stable people who can afford to love and take care of babies the way they deserve. This situation is very different than inner-city single moms or families with 10+ kids.

[Anonymous]

I think none of this is anyone's business. If this woman wants to have 4, 8 or 20 kids, mind your own business. If you want to contribute some money to help her out, great. If not, don't. I highly doubt anyone on this dicussion board is the perfect parent, or has perfect mental health--most of what I'm reading here sounds incredibly judgmental, superior and lacks compassion. How about backing off, and not casting the first stone?

[Anonymous]

I think a lot of the anger and outrage stems from the fact that this woman not only has 14 children and no means to support them but that she appears to be seeking financial support from the public and at least some of the media attention directed her way. I agree that she's by no means the only person out there who's had far more children than she can support, but I think it's the idea that she had so many in such a short time coupled with things like the website seeking donations that really outrages people. I also agree that a lot of the anger ought to be directed at the doctor(s) who facilitated this - they put not only her health but the health of her children at risk by allowing this to happen.

[Anonymous]

I think the issue is "whose business is it?" If everyone says it's "our" business because our tax dollars help support her kids, then by that argument we should have a say in what ALL women do who receive assistance.

Personally? It's none of my business what she does. She may be crazy, but she seems to care about her children.

[Anonymous]

The dr implanted 6 not 8 emryo's and 2 split which made it 8 which is really unbelievable that not only did the 6 stick and implant, but that on top of that 2 split. Apparently she implanted 6 embryo's with ALL her pregnancies and only 1 stuck with all except for the one set of twins, so why should she have believed that this time 6 would stick then split, it is almost like it was her destiny to have this many. Although the story is crazy - she really could not have guaranteed to be pregnant with 8. She clearly said that she had hoped for 1, maybe 2 out of the embryo's implanted and what is done is done - 1/2 of the work is done by the dr and the other half is chance - so I really pray that they all remain healthy and cared for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think none of this is anyone's business. If this woman wants to have 4, 8 or 20 kids, mind your own business. If you want to contribute some money to help her out, great. If not, don't. I highly doubt anyone on this dicussion board is the perfect parent, or has perfect mental health--most of what I'm reading here sounds incredibly judgmental, superior and lacks compassion. How about backing off, and not casting the first stone?

I think it is everyone's business when most likely it is the taxpayer that is going to have to contribute to raising these kids. I highly doubt that this woman will raise enough money in donations to cover the cost of raising 14 kids for the next 18 yrs. So number 1, it is OUR business. Second of all, we are allowed to make judgements on people who do things that are not okay (ie bringing 14 kids into the world under age 8 as a single parent, with no money, no job, because YOU have an affinity for parenting and hated that you were an only child). This is so not fair to the kids I can't even believe it. Even Nadya's own kids weren't looking forward to these babies coming. And with due reason. They're even smarter than their own mother- they know she can't take care of all these children. It's simply not fair to her kids. And that is why people make judgements. Because if we all just sit back and say "well, whatever people want to do, they can do," the world would fall to shit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think none of this is anyone's business. If this woman wants to have 4, 8 or 20 kids, mind your own business. If you want to contribute some money to help her out, great. If not, don't. I highly doubt anyone on this dicussion board is the perfect parent, or has perfect mental health--most of what I'm reading here sounds incredibly judgmental, superior and lacks compassion. How about backing off, and not casting the first stone?

I think it is everyone's business when most likely it is the taxpayer that is going to have to contribute to raising these kids. I highly doubt that this woman will raise enough money in donations to cover the cost of raising 14 kids for the next 18 yrs. So number 1, it is OUR business. Second of all, we are allowed to make judgements on people who do things that are not okay (ie bringing 14 kids into the world under age 8 as a single parent, with no money, no job, because YOU have an affinity for parenting and hated that you were an only child). This is so not fair to the kids I can't even believe it. Even Nadya's own kids weren't looking forward to these babies coming. And with due reason. They're even smarter than their own mother- they know she can't take care of all these children. It's simply not fair to her kids. And that is why people make judgements. Because if we all just sit back and say "well, whatever people want to do, they can do," the world would fall to shit.

Again, if it's our business because our taxes will likely pay for her children, then shouldn't we have a say in what all women do who receive public assistance?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think none of this is anyone's business. If this woman wants to have 4, 8 or 20 kids, mind your own business. If you want to contribute some money to help her out, great. If not, don't. I highly doubt anyone on this dicussion board is the perfect parent, or has perfect mental health--most of what I'm reading here sounds incredibly judgmental, superior and lacks compassion. How about backing off, and not casting the first stone?

I think it is everyone's business when most likely it is the taxpayer that is going to have to contribute to raising these kids. I highly doubt that this woman will raise enough money in donations to cover the cost of raising 14 kids for the next 18 yrs. So number 1, it is OUR business. Second of all, we are allowed to make judgements on people who do things that are not okay (ie bringing 14 kids into the world under age 8 as a single parent, with no money, no job, because YOU have an affinity for parenting and hated that you were an only child). This is so not fair to the kids I can't even believe it. Even Nadya's own kids weren't looking forward to these babies coming. And with due reason. They're even smarter than their own mother- they know she can't take care of all these children. It's simply not fair to her kids. And that is why people make judgements. Because if we all just sit back and say "well, whatever people want to do, they can do," the world would fall to shit.

Again, if it's our business because our taxes will likely pay for her children, then shouldn't we have a say in what all women do who receive public assistance?

I never said I had a say in Nadya's life (I can't go in there and take her kids away) or the life of any other mother on welfare but I am allowed to have it be my business enough that I can make a judgement, particularly if I am helping to pay for it. If there is a single mother who recently lost her husband, lost her job, lost her house, etc and needs public assistance for a time until she can get her feet back on the ground, then by all means, I'm for it. If on the other hand, you have a ridiculously irresponsible situation like Nadya's where you purposely bring 14 kids into the world as a single parent that you can't support, than damn right I'm going to have an opinion! As someone who contributes to these kids upbringing, I think I'm entitled to that. You have to agree that Nadya's situation is far different than the vast majority of women on welfare. That's why people are outraged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think none of this is anyone's business. If this woman wants to have 4, 8 or 20 kids, mind your own business. If you want to contribute some money to help her out, great. If not, don't. I highly doubt anyone on this dicussion board is the perfect parent, or has perfect mental health--most of what I'm reading here sounds incredibly judgmental, superior and lacks compassion. How about backing off, and not casting the first stone?

I think it is everyone's business when most likely it is the taxpayer that is going to have to contribute to raising these kids. I highly doubt that this woman will raise enough money in donations to cover the cost of raising 14 kids for the next 18 yrs. So number 1, it is OUR business. Second of all, we are allowed to make judgements on people who do things that are not okay (ie bringing 14 kids into the world under age 8 as a single parent, with no money, no job, because YOU have an affinity for parenting and hated that you were an only child). This is so not fair to the kids I can't even believe it. Even Nadya's own kids weren't looking forward to these babies coming. And with due reason. They're even smarter than their own mother- they know she can't take care of all these children. It's simply not fair to her kids. And that is why people make judgements. Because if we all just sit back and say "well, whatever people want to do, they can do," the world would fall to shit.

Again, if it's our business because our taxes will likely pay for her children, then shouldn't we have a say in what all women do who receive public assistance?

I never said I had a say in Nadya's life (I can't go in there and take her kids away) or the life of any other mother on welfare but I am allowed to have it be my business enough that I can make a judgement, particularly if I am helping to pay for it. If there is a single mother who recently lost her husband, lost her job, lost her house, etc and needs public assistance for a time until she can get her feet back on the ground, then by all means, I'm for it. If on the other hand, you have a ridiculously irresponsible situation like Nadya's where you purposely bring 14 kids into the world as a single parent that you can't support, than damn right I'm going to have an opinion! As someone who contributes to these kids upbringing, I think I'm entitled to that. You have to agree that Nadya's situation is far different than the vast majority of women on welfare. That's why people are outraged.

I can understand why people are outraged - and I think people should have an opinion - but to the point where she receives death threats? It's a little ridiculous, IMO. Regardless, I see a trend of people getting so involved in what others are doing - especially when it comes to parenting - that I wonder what they are doing with their own families.

[Anonymous]

It's a distraction from the sinking economy.

[Anonymous]

"I highly doubt that this woman will raise enough money in donations to cover the cost of raising 14 kids for the next 18 yrs"

She will, because has a global audience to rake in the dough. Does that piss you off!

[Anonymous]

"Again, if it's our business because our taxes will likely pay for her children, then shouldn't we have a say in what all women do who receive public assistance? "

Bingo! How did you spend your stimulus check? Or any other hand out exemptions, rebates, and tax credits you got from the government? I contributed to all of this stuff! I want a complete accounting so that I can judge you find if you meet my standards. Can you say hypocrite? Tax cheats that don't pay their employees on the books. Hello! This forum is over the moon.

[Anonymous]

There was an article in the LA times that this doctor implanted 7 embryos from a 20 year old donor in a 40 year old woman who is now pregant with quadruplets after the octomom. While implanting more than 2-3 with 40 year old eggs is considered by REs, implanting 7 from a 20 year old eggs is out of the question.

There was another artcile somewhere that this doctor has an incredible low success rate compared to other labs and doesn't invest the equipment to do it right. It certainly seems as if he is simply implanting a large number of embryos to overcome either his incompetence or worse increase profits at the expense of his patients.

The octomom is odd no doubt but it sounds as if she was also preyed upon by an unscrupulous doctor trying to make a buck.