Any updates re the Hoggle children?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please explain what evidence there is that she killed them? I can' think of a few other scenarios. Why assume the worst? What **actual** evidence is there?

Correction to the other post.

She was ordered to never be alone with the children. Her father let he be alone with them. He should be charged.

She killed them each in a separate events hours apart and dumped them in dumpsters. Their bodies will essentially never be found in the dump. She admitted the murder to a coworker but can’t be proved.

She’s intelligent. If she is competent to stand trial she will be found guilty. If she continues to pretend to be incompetent to stand trial she will remain in a mental facility.

She will remain in a mental facility.

Supposedly he dropped her and the kids off with her mother that afternoon before he went to work.

No. Wrong.

I saw him state that in an interview.

And most likely her mother felt bad for her and let her be with the kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please explain what evidence there is that she killed them? I can' think of a few other scenarios. Why assume the worst? What **actual** evidence is there?

Correction to the other post.

She was ordered to never be alone with the children. Her father let he be alone with them. He should be charged.

She killed them each in a separate events hours apart and dumped them in dumpsters. Their bodies will essentially never be found in the dump. She admitted the murder to a coworker but can’t be proved.

She’s intelligent. If she is competent to stand trial she will be found guilty. If she continues to pretend to be incompetent to stand trial she will remain in a mental facility.

She will remain in a mental facility.

Supposedly he dropped her and the kids off with her mother that afternoon before he went to work.

No. Wrong.

I saw him state that in an interview.

PP, what makes you think he's lying. And pretty sure even if he did leave her alone that's not illegal. If she was perceived as a danger to herself or others, she would have been placed on a psych hold not allowed some loose-goosey "care plan" right?

He’s lying.

She was under court order supervision by her family. The h had to work and the father watched her during the day. He is a loon and left her alone with the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please explain what evidence there is that she killed them? I can' think of a few other scenarios. Why assume the worst? What **actual** evidence is there?

Correction to the other post.

She was ordered to never be alone with the children. Her father let he be alone with them. He should be charged.

She killed them each in a separate events hours apart and dumped them in dumpsters. Their bodies will essentially never be found in the dump. She admitted the murder to a coworker but can’t be proved.

She’s intelligent. If she is competent to stand trial she will be found guilty. If she continues to pretend to be incompetent to stand trial she will remain in a mental facility.

She will remain in a mental facility.

Supposedly he dropped her and the kids off with her mother that afternoon before he went to work.

No. Wrong.

I saw him state that in an interview.

And most likely her mother felt bad for her and let her be with the kids

The mother was not involved, it was the father.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please explain what evidence there is that she killed them? I can' think of a few other scenarios. Why assume the worst? What **actual** evidence is there?

Correction to the other post.

She was ordered to never be alone with the children. Her father let he be alone with them. He should be charged.

She killed them each in a separate events hours apart and dumped them in dumpsters. Their bodies will essentially never be found in the dump. She admitted the murder to a coworker but can’t be proved.

She’s intelligent. If she is competent to stand trial she will be found guilty. If she continues to pretend to be incompetent to stand trial she will remain in a mental facility.

She will remain in a mental facility.

Supposedly he dropped her and the kids off with her mother that afternoon before he went to work.

No. Wrong.

I saw him state that in an interview.

PP, what makes you think he's lying. And pretty sure even if he did leave her alone that's not illegal. If she was perceived as a danger to herself or others, she would have been placed on a psych hold not allowed some loose-goosey "care plan" right?

He’s lying.

She was under court order supervision by her family. The h had to work and the father watched her during the day. He is a loon and left her alone with the kids.

Catherine's father left her alone?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please explain what evidence there is that she killed them? I can' think of a few other scenarios. Why assume the worst? What **actual** evidence is there?

Correction to the other post.

She was ordered to never be alone with the children. Her father let he be alone with them. He should be charged.

She killed them each in a separate events hours apart and dumped them in dumpsters. Their bodies will essentially never be found in the dump. She admitted the murder to a coworker but can’t be proved.

She’s intelligent. If she is competent to stand trial she will be found guilty. If she continues to pretend to be incompetent to stand trial she will remain in a mental facility.

She will remain in a mental facility.

Supposedly he dropped her and the kids off with her mother that afternoon before he went to work.

No. Wrong.

I saw him state that in an interview.

PP, what makes you think he's lying. And pretty sure even if he did leave her alone that's not illegal. If she was perceived as a danger to herself or others, she would have been placed on a psych hold not allowed some loose-goosey "care plan" right?

He’s lying.

She was under court order supervision by her family. The h had to work and the father watched her during the day. He is a loon and left her alone with the kids.

Catherine's father left her alone?

Yes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please explain what evidence there is that she killed them? I can' think of a few other scenarios. Why assume the worst? What **actual** evidence is there?

Correction to the other post.

She was ordered to never be alone with the children. Her father let he be alone with them. He should be charged.

She killed them each in a separate events hours apart and dumped them in dumpsters. Their bodies will essentially never be found in the dump. She admitted the murder to a coworker but can’t be proved.

She’s intelligent. If she is competent to stand trial she will be found guilty. If she continues to pretend to be incompetent to stand trial she will remain in a mental facility.

She will remain in a mental facility.

Supposedly he dropped her and the kids off with her mother that afternoon before he went to work.

No. Wrong.

I saw him state that in an interview.

PP, what makes you think he's lying. And pretty sure even if he did leave her alone that's not illegal. If she was perceived as a danger to herself or others, she would have been placed on a psych hold not allowed some loose-goosey "care plan" right?

He’s lying.

She was under court order supervision by her family. The h had to work and the father watched her during the day. He is a loon and left her alone with the kids.

Catherine's father left her alone?

The story's a little convoluted but sounds like the family did the best they could in a horrible situation. Catherine and the kids often stayed at her mother's house while the husband Troy worked. The mother wasn't home that day but Catherine's father (the ex) had agreed to come over to stay with them. Catherine said she was going to get pizza and Jacob wanted to go. They left, she came back without Jacob claiming he was at a sleepover with a friend. Everyone went to bed. The next morning the father left early, Catherine disappeared with the daughter, and the husband then realized the three were missing. More details here:

https://www.cnhinews.com/news/article_8abe57a6-69aa-11e4-9e0c-2bc85ebd6450.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please explain what evidence there is that she killed them? I can' think of a few other scenarios. Why assume the worst? What **actual** evidence is there?

Correction to the other post.

She was ordered to never be alone with the children. Her father let he be alone with them. He should be charged.

She killed them each in a separate events hours apart and dumped them in dumpsters. Their bodies will essentially never be found in the dump. She admitted the murder to a coworker but can’t be proved.

She’s intelligent. If she is competent to stand trial she will be found guilty. If she continues to pretend to be incompetent to stand trial she will remain in a mental facility.

She will remain in a mental facility.

Supposedly he dropped her and the kids off with her mother that afternoon before he went to work.

No. Wrong.

I saw him state that in an interview.

PP, what makes you think he's lying. And pretty sure even if he did leave her alone that's not illegal. If she was perceived as a danger to herself or others, she would have been placed on a psych hold not allowed some loose-goosey "care plan" right?

He’s lying.

She was under court order supervision by her family. The h had to work and the father watched her during the day. He is a loon and left her alone with the kids.

Catherine's father left her alone?

The story's a little convoluted but sounds like the family did the best they could in a horrible situation. Catherine and the kids often stayed at her mother's house while the husband Troy worked. The mother wasn't home that day but Catherine's father (the ex) had agreed to come over to stay with them. Catherine said she was going to get pizza and Jacob wanted to go. They left, she came back without Jacob claiming he was at a sleepover with a friend. Everyone went to bed. The next morning the father left early, Catherine disappeared with the daughter, and the husband then realized the three were missing. More details here:

https://www.cnhinews.com/news/article_8abe57a6-69aa-11e4-9e0c-2bc85ebd6450.html

Catherine’s father let her take the son alone. She killed him and dumped his body.

[Anonymous]

It's similar to the Andrea Yates situation. Family members just could not believe that she would hurt her kids, they left her alone, and she killed them.

It is easy to blame the family, but, unless you are in this situation I would hesitate to judge how they manage everything. It is extremely difficult.

I guess she will be in a mental hospital forever on the taxpayer's dime. I wonder if she is a danger to other adults. Why not just move her to prison?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please explain what evidence there is that she killed them? I can' think of a few other scenarios. Why assume the worst? What **actual** evidence is there?

Correction to the other post.

She was ordered to never be alone with the children. Her father let he be alone with them. He should be charged.

She killed them each in a separate events hours apart and dumped them in dumpsters. Their bodies will essentially never be found in the dump. She admitted the murder to a coworker but can’t be proved.

She’s intelligent. If she is competent to stand trial she will be found guilty. If she continues to pretend to be incompetent to stand trial she will remain in a mental facility.

She will remain in a mental facility.

Supposedly he dropped her and the kids off with her mother that afternoon before he went to work.

No. Wrong.

I saw him state that in an interview.

PP, what makes you think he's lying. And pretty sure even if he did leave her alone that's not illegal. If she was perceived as a danger to herself or others, she would have been placed on a psych hold not allowed some loose-goosey "care plan" right?

He’s lying.

She was under court order supervision by her family. The h had to work and the father watched her during the day. He is a loon and left her alone with the kids.

Catherine's father left her alone?

The story's a little convoluted but sounds like the family did the best they could in a horrible situation. Catherine and the kids often stayed at her mother's house while the husband Troy worked. The mother wasn't home that day but Catherine's father (the ex) had agreed to come over to stay with them. Catherine said she was going to get pizza and Jacob wanted to go. They left, she came back without Jacob claiming he was at a sleepover with a friend. Everyone went to bed. The next morning the father left early, Catherine disappeared with the daughter, and the husband then realized the three were missing. More details here:

https://www.cnhinews.com/news/article_8abe57a6-69aa-11e4-9e0c-2bc85ebd6450.html

Catherine’s father let her take the son alone. She killed him and dumped his body.

They thought she was doing better. It's very sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please explain what evidence there is that she killed them? I can' think of a few other scenarios. Why assume the worst? What **actual** evidence is there?

Correction to the other post.

She was ordered to never be alone with the children. Her father let he be alone with them. He should be charged.

She killed them each in a separate events hours apart and dumped them in dumpsters. Their bodies will essentially never be found in the dump. She admitted the murder to a coworker but can’t be proved.

She’s intelligent. If she is competent to stand trial she will be found guilty. If she continues to pretend to be incompetent to stand trial she will remain in a mental facility.

She will remain in a mental facility.

Supposedly he dropped her and the kids off with her mother that afternoon before he went to work.

No. Wrong.

I saw him state that in an interview.

PP, what makes you think he's lying. And pretty sure even if he did leave her alone that's not illegal. If she was perceived as a danger to herself or others, she would have been placed on a psych hold not allowed some loose-goosey "care plan" right?

He’s lying.

She was under court order supervision by her family. The h had to work and the father watched her during the day. He is a loon and left her alone with the kids.

Catherine's father left her alone?

The story's a little convoluted but sounds like the family did the best they could in a horrible situation. Catherine and the kids often stayed at her mother's house while the husband Troy worked. The mother wasn't home that day but Catherine's father (the ex) had agreed to come over to stay with them. Catherine said she was going to get pizza and Jacob wanted to go. They left, she came back without Jacob claiming he was at a sleepover with a friend. Everyone went to bed. The next morning the father left early, Catherine disappeared with the daughter, and the husband then realized the three were missing. More details here:

https://www.cnhinews.com/news/article_8abe57a6-69aa-11e4-9e0c-2bc85ebd6450.html

Catherine’s father let her take the son alone. She killed him and dumped his body.

They thought she was doing better. It's very sad.

No they didn’t. The father broke the law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's similar to the Andrea Yates situation. Family members just could not believe that she would hurt her kids, they left her alone, and she killed them.

It is easy to blame the family, but, unless you are in this situation I would hesitate to judge how they manage everything. It is extremely difficult.

I guess she will be in a mental hospital forever on the taxpayer's dime. I wonder if she is a danger to other adults. Why not just move her to prison?

Agreed I just read the article posted a couple posts up thread and it sounds like the entire family was working incredibly hard together to do their best in a VEDY difficult situations. Even if the father hadn’t given in to her taking the son for pizza, she left in the middle of the night with the daughter. There is so so little support for families when a family member struggles with persistent mental illness. Almost nil. It is impossible at times, I can’t even describe how hard it has been on my aunt/uncle who have a son who struggles - trying to decide the boundaries is so so hard (and most of the time folks suffering are NOT violent). This poor family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please explain what evidence there is that she killed them? I can' think of a few other scenarios. Why assume the worst? What **actual** evidence is there?

Correction to the other post.

She was ordered to never be alone with the children. Her father let he be alone with them. He should be charged.

She killed them each in a separate events hours apart and dumped them in dumpsters. Their bodies will essentially never be found in the dump. She admitted the murder to a coworker but can’t be proved.

She’s intelligent. If she is competent to stand trial she will be found guilty. If she continues to pretend to be incompetent to stand trial she will remain in a mental facility.

She will remain in a mental facility.

Supposedly he dropped her and the kids off with her mother that afternoon before he went to work.

No. Wrong.

I saw him state that in an interview.

PP, what makes you think he's lying. And pretty sure even if he did leave her alone that's not illegal. If she was perceived as a danger to herself or others, she would have been placed on a psych hold not allowed some loose-goosey "care plan" right?

He’s lying.

She was under court order supervision by her family. The h had to work and the father watched her during the day. He is a loon and left her alone with the kids.

Catherine's father left her alone?

The story's a little convoluted but sounds like the family did the best they could in a horrible situation. Catherine and the kids often stayed at her mother's house while the husband Troy worked. The mother wasn't home that day but Catherine's father (the ex) had agreed to come over to stay with them. Catherine said she was going to get pizza and Jacob wanted to go. They left, she came back without Jacob claiming he was at a sleepover with a friend. Everyone went to bed. The next morning the father left early, Catherine disappeared with the daughter, and the husband then realized the three were missing. More details here:

https://www.cnhinews.com/news/article_8abe57a6-69aa-11e4-9e0c-2bc85ebd6450.html

Catherine’s father let her take the son alone. She killed him and dumped his body.

They thought she was doing better. It's very sad.

No they didn’t. The father broke the law.

There is absolutely no mention of any custody agreement - there is nothing legal about it. She was married to her husband and they were all taking care of the kids. She was receiving treatment in an outpatient program. The family had gotten her a psychiatric eval and inpatient treatment but she was discharged quickly. This is how it works. There is little you can do. So they developed a plan as a family even though she was doing better, to try to provide as much supervision as possible and have another adult there. This is complex and it isn’t on the father. Don’t be cruel. Have you had a family member with severe and persistent mental illness? It’s truly one of the worst uphill battles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please explain what evidence there is that she killed them? I can' think of a few other scenarios. Why assume the worst? What **actual** evidence is there?

Correction to the other post.

She was ordered to never be alone with the children. Her father let he be alone with them. He should be charged.

She killed them each in a separate events hours apart and dumped them in dumpsters. Their bodies will essentially never be found in the dump. She admitted the murder to a coworker but can’t be proved.

She’s intelligent. If she is competent to stand trial she will be found guilty. If she continues to pretend to be incompetent to stand trial she will remain in a mental facility.

She will remain in a mental facility.

Supposedly he dropped her and the kids off with her mother that afternoon before he went to work.

No. Wrong.

I saw him state that in an interview.

PP, what makes you think he's lying. And pretty sure even if he did leave her alone that's not illegal. If she was perceived as a danger to herself or others, she would have been placed on a psych hold not allowed some loose-goosey "care plan" right?

He’s lying.

She was under court order supervision by her family. The h had to work and the father watched her during the day. He is a loon and left her alone with the kids.

Catherine's father left her alone?

The story's a little convoluted but sounds like the family did the best they could in a horrible situation. Catherine and the kids often stayed at her mother's house while the husband Troy worked. The mother wasn't home that day but Catherine's father (the ex) had agreed to come over to stay with them. Catherine said she was going to get pizza and Jacob wanted to go. They left, she came back without Jacob claiming he was at a sleepover with a friend. Everyone went to bed. The next morning the father left early, Catherine disappeared with the daughter, and the husband then realized the three were missing. More details here:

https://www.cnhinews.com/news/article_8abe57a6-69aa-11e4-9e0c-2bc85ebd6450.html

Catherine’s father let her take the son alone. She killed him and dumped his body.

They thought she was doing better. It's very sad.

No they didn’t. The father broke the law.

There is absolutely no mention of any custody agreement - there is nothing legal about it. She was married to her husband and they were all taking care of the kids. She was receiving treatment in an outpatient program. The family had gotten her a psychiatric eval and inpatient treatment but she was discharged quickly. This is how it works. There is little you can do. So they developed a plan as a family even though she was doing better, to try to provide as much supervision as possible and have another adult there. This is complex and it isn’t on the father. Don’t be cruel. Have you had a family member with severe and persistent mental illness? It’s truly one of the worst uphill battles.

And for the record, people with paranoid schizophrenia are not typically violent. It’s not unreasonable the choices they made as real humans trying to live in a country with little support - the husband HAD to work, we only have unpaid family leave so it’s not like he could take leave to handle this family crisis. They were doing the best they could and better than some would have (making a whole supervision plan to begin with). It’s a TRAGEDY. For everyone - the mom with mental illness too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's similar to the Andrea Yates situation. Family members just could not believe that she would hurt her kids, they left her alone, and she killed them.

It is easy to blame the family, but, unless you are in this situation I would hesitate to judge how they manage everything. It is extremely difficult.

I guess she will be in a mental hospital forever on the taxpayer's dime. I wonder if she is a danger to other adults. Why not just move her to prison?

Agreed I just read the article posted a couple posts up thread and it sounds like the entire family was working incredibly hard together to do their best in a VEDY difficult situations. Even if the father hadn’t given in to her taking the son for pizza, she left in the middle of the night with the daughter. There is so so little support for families when a family member struggles with persistent mental illness. Almost nil. It is impossible at times, I can’t even describe how hard it has been on my aunt/uncle who have a son who struggles - trying to decide the boundaries is so so hard (and most of the time folks suffering are NOT violent). This poor family.

100%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please explain what evidence there is that she killed them? I can' think of a few other scenarios. Why assume the worst? What **actual** evidence is there?

Correction to the other post.

She was ordered to never be alone with the children. Her father let he be alone with them. He should be charged.

She killed them each in a separate events hours apart and dumped them in dumpsters. Their bodies will essentially never be found in the dump. She admitted the murder to a coworker but can’t be proved.

She’s intelligent. If she is competent to stand trial she will be found guilty. If she continues to pretend to be incompetent to stand trial she will remain in a mental facility.

She will remain in a mental facility.

Supposedly he dropped her and the kids off with her mother that afternoon before he went to work.

No. Wrong.

I saw him state that in an interview.

PP, what makes you think he's lying. And pretty sure even if he did leave her alone that's not illegal. If she was perceived as a danger to herself or others, she would have been placed on a psych hold not allowed some loose-goosey "care plan" right?

He’s lying.

She was under court order supervision by her family. The h had to work and the father watched her during the day. He is a loon and left her alone with the kids.

Catherine's father left her alone?

The story's a little convoluted but sounds like the family did the best they could in a horrible situation. Catherine and the kids often stayed at her mother's house while the husband Troy worked. The mother wasn't home that day but Catherine's father (the ex) had agreed to come over to stay with them. Catherine said she was going to get pizza and Jacob wanted to go. They left, she came back without Jacob claiming he was at a sleepover with a friend. Everyone went to bed. The next morning the father left early, Catherine disappeared with the daughter, and the husband then realized the three were missing. More details here:

https://www.cnhinews.com/news/article_8abe57a6-69aa-11e4-9e0c-2bc85ebd6450.html

Catherine’s father let her take the son alone. She killed him and dumped his body.

They thought she was doing better. It's very sad.

No they didn’t. The father broke the law.

There is absolutely no mention of any custody agreement - there is nothing legal about it. She was married to her husband and they were all taking care of the kids. She was receiving treatment in an outpatient program. The family had gotten her a psychiatric eval and inpatient treatment but she was discharged quickly. This is how it works. There is little you can do. So they developed a plan as a family even though she was doing better, to try to provide as much supervision as possible and have another adult there. This is complex and it isn’t on the father. Don’t be cruel. Have you had a family member with severe and persistent mental illness? It’s truly one of the worst uphill battles.

Yes I have.

You don’t leave a person alone with children when they are not allowed to be alone with children. The father was left in charge. He let her take the child alone. He is responsible for the death too.