2014 AAP Appeal/WISC Scores

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:11:59 here. One more thing to add. We are at a well-attended Local Level IV school. I should have said it makes a big difference if there is Local Level IV or not. With LLIV, I say shame on parents if they complain about how bad the AAP system is but don't try to get their kids in. LLIV does not require moving schools.

PP here. Not at a LLIV school. But at the one I know, teachers/principals automatically place the kids who can handle the work in LLIV. Not to mention the schools are typically in upper income parts of the county where lack of knowledge or resources is not an issue and parents will try to get their kids in if they think they are qualified. I think LLIV is a better model --certainly for these schools that are busing 25% of the class to a center because that's supposedly the only way these kids can find their intellectual peers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agree with PP.

Ten work samples, really? Getting 3s and 4s. Sounds like a kid who really needs a special education program to bring out the best in them. NOT!

I'm not attacking you, because you worked within the system. And I appreciate your honesty and courage in posting actual scores. But a system that allows people who push hard to get their kids into AAP because basically "they can do the work," is a farce. How many similarly intelligent kids have been left behind in general ed. That's the dirty secret. That's what's wrong with this program. And I say that as a parent who had a kid in AAP. But I also had kids in Gen. Ed. who had higher scores than those you appealed with (one with a 15 GBRS) and they did just fine in their local elementary school. This is where AAP will ultimately collapse on itself. Either the curriculum should be offered to all kids at a certain level or many kids are not receiving the education they deserve. Too many people are okay with that as long as they get theirs. That is no way to run a public school system.

Could not agree more. Thank you for posting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Submitted appeal with WISC 147 (part of original package) and SB 132 with GBRS 8 and no other scores.

What are the chances for a big IN?

On the appeal form it says original content will not be accepted so good thing you took the SB and that SB score is very impressive. GBRS pulls it down though so it's even on both in and out IMO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ well I'm starting to see why some posters are so critical of the program. Obviously it's not for the really advanced anymore.

Nice try, you sad troll. Test scores are just one or two data points, important and objective, but not the whole picture and were provided in direct response to thread's question w/o a lot of exclamations and excitement.

Parents who did post - thanks for meaningfully contributing to the forum.

huh? FSIQ of 123 and GBRS 12 or 13 is gifted now? I'm not a troll, in fact have relentlessly defended the program against the couple of critics who keep arguing it has spiraled out of control, but when you see data like this you understand their argument.

BUT it's not a gifted program. Its Advanced Academics, to respond to the last few posters, why not put your child in AAP if they can do the work?? Your problem should be with the system, not with the parents who know their children can do AAP and work within the system to get them into it. It's not these parents' fault that the county did away with GT and decided to include more kids. Sometimes I have to wonder why some parents DON'T try to get their kids in.

Absolutely agree! If your child is a higher-level thinker, can learn quickly and easily, why wouldn't you try to get him/her in AAP? Why criticize the parents (and the kids) for trying to get the best education possible for their children? AAP is NOT the GT program of our youth, where only a few kids were pulled out for extra instruction. In fact, the AAP description on FCPS's web site does NOT use the word "gifted" once:

"The full-time AAP (level IV) center program for students in grades 3 through 8 offers identified students a highly challenging instructional program that follows the FCPS Program of Studies. Differentiation in the depth, breadth, and pace of instruction, along with a strong emphasis on higher level thinking skills is designed to meet the needs of advanced learners with a strong emphasis on higher level thinking skills. Adaptations are made to the curriculum in order to provide an appropriate level of challenge for advanced learners with a strong emphasis on critical and creative thinking, problem-solving, and decision-making.

The general education elementary school program offers instruction in the core curriculum as defined by FCPS Program of Studies (POS) and Virginia Standards of Learning (SOL)."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ well I'm starting to see why some posters are so critical of the program. Obviously it's not for the really advanced anymore.

Nice try, you sad troll. Test scores are just one or two data points, important and objective, but not the whole picture and were provided in direct response to thread's question w/o a lot of exclamations and excitement.

Parents who did post - thanks for meaningfully contributing to the forum.

huh? FSIQ of 123 and GBRS 12 or 13 is gifted now? I'm not a troll, in fact have relentlessly defended the program against the couple of critics who keep arguing it has spiraled out of control, but when you see data like this you understand their argument.

BUT it's not a gifted program. Its Advanced Academics, to respond to the last few posters, why not put your child in AAP if they can do the work?? Your problem should be with the system, not with the parents who know their children can do AAP and work within the system to get them into it. It's not these parents' fault that the county did away with GT and decided to include more kids. Sometimes I have to wonder why some parents DON'T try to get their kids in.

Absolutely agree! If your child is a higher-level thinker, can learn quickly and easily, why wouldn't you try to get him/her in AAP? Why criticize the parents (and the kids) for trying to get the best education possible for their children? AAP is NOT the GT program of our youth, where only a few kids were pulled out for extra instruction. In fact, the AAP description on FCPS's web site does NOT use the word "gifted" once:

"The full-time AAP (level IV) center program for students in grades 3 through 8 offers identified students a highly challenging instructional program that follows the FCPS Program of Studies. Differentiation in the depth, breadth, and pace of instruction, along with a strong emphasis on higher level thinking skills is designed to meet the needs of advanced learners with a strong emphasis on higher level thinking skills. Adaptations are made to the curriculum in order to provide an appropriate level of challenge for advanced learners with a strong emphasis on critical and creative thinking, problem-solving, and decision-making.

The general education elementary school program offers instruction in the core curriculum as defined by FCPS Program of Studies (POS) and Virginia Standards of Learning (SOL)."

Great commentary - RTFM.....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with PP.

Ten work samples, really? Getting 3s and 4s. Sounds like a kid who really needs a special education program to bring out the best in them. NOT!

I'm not attacking you, because you worked within the system. And I appreciate your honesty and courage in posting actual scores. But a system that allows people who push hard to get their kids into AAP because basically "they can do the work," is a farce. How many similarly intelligent kids have been left behind in general ed. That's the dirty secret. That's what's wrong with this program. And I say that as a parent who had a kid in AAP. But I also had kids in Gen. Ed. who had higher scores than those you appealed with (one with a 15 GBRS) and they did just fine in their local elementary school. This is where AAP will ultimately collapse on itself. Either the curriculum should be offered to all kids at a certain level or many kids are not receiving the education they deserve. Too many people are okay with that as long as they get theirs. That is no way to run a public school system.

Could not agree more. Thank you for posting.

Just curious, what's the issue with 10 work samples? The "similarly intelligent kids" left behind in ge might have gotten into AAP if they had had that many samples.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Submitted appeal with WISC 147 (part of original package) and SB 132 with GBRS 8 and no other scores.

What are the chances for a big IN?

On the appeal form it says original content will not be accepted so good thing you took the SB and that SB score is very impressive. GBRS pulls it down though so it's even on both in and out IMO.

The decision was IN.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with PP.

Ten work samples, really? Getting 3s and 4s. Sounds like a kid who really needs a special education program to bring out the best in them. NOT!

I'm not attacking you, because you worked within the system. And I appreciate your honesty and courage in posting actual scores. But a system that allows people who push hard to get their kids into AAP because basically "they can do the work," is a farce. How many similarly intelligent kids have been left behind in general ed. That's the dirty secret. That's what's wrong with this program. And I say that as a parent who had a kid in AAP. But I also had kids in Gen. Ed. who had higher scores than those you appealed with (one with a 15 GBRS) and they did just fine in their local elementary school. This is where AAP will ultimately collapse on itself. Either the curriculum should be offered to all kids at a certain level or many kids are not receiving the education they deserve. Too many people are okay with that as long as they get theirs. That is no way to run a public school system.

Could not agree more. Thank you for posting.

Just curious, what's the issue with 10 work samples? The "similarly intelligent kids" left behind in ge might have gotten into AAP if they had had that many samples.

could be wrong, but don't think you're supposed to include more than 4 or 5. seems excessive. also, how do you verify that those samples are actually kid's work?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ well I'm starting to see why some posters are so critical of the program. Obviously it's not for the really advanced anymore.

Nice try, you sad troll. Test scores are just one or two data points, important and objective, but not the whole picture and were provided in direct response to thread's question w/o a lot of exclamations and excitement.

Parents who did post - thanks for meaningfully contributing to the forum.

huh? FSIQ of 123 and GBRS 12 or 13 is gifted now? I'm not a troll, in fact have relentlessly defended the program against the couple of critics who keep arguing it has spiraled out of control, but when you see data like this you understand their argument.

BUT it's not a gifted program. Its Advanced Academics, to respond to the last few posters, why not put your child in AAP if they can do the work?? Your problem should be with the system, not with the parents who know their children can do AAP and work within the system to get them into it. It's not these parents' fault that the county did away with GT and decided to include more kids. Sometimes I have to wonder why some parents DON'T try to get their kids in.

Absolutely agree! If your child is a higher-level thinker, can learn quickly and easily, why wouldn't you try to get him/her in AAP? Why criticize the parents (and the kids) for trying to get the best education possible for their children? AAP is NOT the GT program of our youth, where only a few kids were pulled out for extra instruction. In fact, the AAP description on FCPS's web site does NOT use the word "gifted" once:

"The full-time AAP (level IV) center program for students in grades 3 through 8 offers identified students a highly challenging instructional program that follows the FCPS Program of Studies. Differentiation in the depth, breadth, and pace of instruction, along with a strong emphasis on higher level thinking skills is designed to meet the needs of advanced learners with a strong emphasis on higher level thinking skills. Adaptations are made to the curriculum in order to provide an appropriate level of challenge for advanced learners with a strong emphasis on critical and creative thinking, problem-solving, and decision-making.

The general education elementary school program offers instruction in the core curriculum as defined by FCPS Program of Studies (POS) and Virginia Standards of Learning (SOL)."

Great commentary - RTFM.....

Yes, but the GT program of even 2006 was not based on pulling out above average kids who would succeed in any environment either. So don't try to act like the GT program is ancient history. The whole busing and they have to have a center aspect was predicated on the need to get these extraordinarily intelligent kids, who often had other issues that got in the way of their using their gifts, in an environment of their peers. It was mandated as special education. I would like to see the language in the law that says kids who are merely advanced (which at grade 2 can often come from parent enrichment and other exposure that is separate from native intelligence) NEED to be in separate schools.

[Anonymous]

My kid get in . I got mail today.

This is my kid scores
Nnat 129
Cogat V 107. Q 122 N 117
Gbrs 10

Wisc 129 -----------------(last year) didn't get in 2nd grade

Stanford Binet 5.
Non verbal. 143
Verbal. 134
Full scale 140 ----------(this year) get in 3rd grade

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ well I'm starting to see why some posters are so critical of the program. Obviously it's not for the really advanced anymore.

Nice try, you sad troll. Test scores are just one or two data points, important and objective, but not the whole picture and were provided in direct response to thread's question w/o a lot of exclamations and excitement.

Parents who did post - thanks for meaningfully contributing to the forum.

huh? FSIQ of 123 and GBRS 12 or 13 is gifted now? I'm not a troll, in fact have relentlessly defended the program against the couple of critics who keep arguing it has spiraled out of control, but when you see data like this you understand their argument.

BUT it's not a gifted program. Its Advanced Academics, to respond to the last few posters, why not put your child in AAP if they can do the work?? Your problem should be with the system, not with the parents who know their children can do AAP and work within the system to get them into it. It's not these parents' fault that the county did away with GT and decided to include more kids. Sometimes I have to wonder why some parents DON'T try to get their kids in.

Absolutely agree! If your child is a higher-level thinker, can learn quickly and easily, why wouldn't you try to get him/her in AAP? Why criticize the parents (and the kids) for trying to get the best education possible for their children? AAP is NOT the GT program of our youth, where only a few kids were pulled out for extra instruction. In fact, the AAP description on FCPS's web site does NOT use the word "gifted" once:

"The full-time AAP (level IV) center program for students in grades 3 through 8 offers identified students a highly challenging instructional program that follows the FCPS Program of Studies. Differentiation in the depth, breadth, and pace of instruction, along with a strong emphasis on higher level thinking skills is designed to meet the needs of advanced learners with a strong emphasis on higher level thinking skills. Adaptations are made to the curriculum in order to provide an appropriate level of challenge for advanced learners with a strong emphasis on critical and creative thinking, problem-solving, and decision-making.

The general education elementary school program offers instruction in the core curriculum as defined by FCPS Program of Studies (POS) and Virginia Standards of Learning (SOL)."

Great commentary - RTFM.....

Yes, but the GT program of even 2006 was not based on pulling out above average kids who would succeed in any environment either. So don't try to act like the GT program is ancient history. The whole busing and they have to have a center aspect was predicated on the need to get these extraordinarily intelligent kids, who often had other issues that got in the way of their using their gifts, in an environment of their peers. It was mandated as special education. I would like to see the language in the law that says kids who are merely advanced (which at grade 2 can often come from parent enrichment and other exposure that is separate from native intelligence) NEED to be in separate schools.

Exactly; why are kids who aren't candidates for "special education" given the choice of busing to a separate school when they already have LLIV in their base school? No wonder centers are overcrowded and the number of AAP kids is overshadowing that of GE kids. Most of these AAP kids need to stay at their own base school. Why are we (taxpayers) paying for the busing??

[Anonymous]

For those who recieved approval, when is the deadline to respond and anyone knows what happens if I miss the deadline to respond to the letter? Are we losing the spot? Currently out of town...so please help!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For those who recieved approval, when is the deadline to respond and anyone knows what happens if I miss the deadline to respond to the letter? Are we losing the spot? Currently out of town...so please help!

Deadline is June 30. Fax or mail form that's included in letter. Sorry, don't know the answer to what happens if you miss the deadline. Not sure if it's too late to call the AAP office today, but you can try on Mon. Seems that they would anticipate lots of folks being out of town this week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with PP.

Ten work samples, really? Getting 3s and 4s. Sounds like a kid who really needs a special education program to bring out the best in them. NOT!

I'm not attacking you, because you worked within the system. And I appreciate your honesty and courage in posting actual scores. But a system that allows people who push hard to get their kids into AAP because basically "they can do the work," is a farce. How many similarly intelligent kids have been left behind in general ed. That's the dirty secret. That's what's wrong with this program. And I say that as a parent who had a kid in AAP. But I also had kids in Gen. Ed. who had higher scores than those you appealed with (one with a 15 GBRS) and they did just fine in their local elementary school. This is where AAP will ultimately collapse on itself. Either the curriculum should be offered to all kids at a certain level or many kids are not receiving the education they deserve. Too many people are okay with that as long as they get theirs. That is no way to run a public school system.

Could not agree more. Thank you for posting.

Just curious, what's the issue with 10 work samples? The "similarly intelligent kids" left behind in ge might have gotten into AAP if they had had that many samples.

could be wrong, but don't think you're supposed to include more than 4 or 5. seems excessive. also, how do you verify that those samples are actually kid's work?

The poster wrote that she/he submitted 5 pages with 2 samples on each page, which is allowable. Our AART did that for my dd's school samples (included more than 1 on a page). And how would you verify ANY child's work samples?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ well I'm starting to see why some posters are so critical of the program. Obviously it's not for the really advanced anymore.

Nice try, you sad troll. Test scores are just one or two data points, important and objective, but not the whole picture and were provided in direct response to thread's question w/o a lot of exclamations and excitement.

Parents who did post - thanks for meaningfully contributing to the forum.

huh? FSIQ of 123 and GBRS 12 or 13 is gifted now? I'm not a troll, in fact have relentlessly defended the program against the couple of critics who keep arguing it has spiraled out of control, but when you see data like this you understand their argument.

BUT it's not a gifted program. Its Advanced Academics, to respond to the last few posters, why not put your child in AAP if they can do the work?? Your problem should be with the system, not with the parents who know their children can do AAP and work within the system to get them into it. It's not these parents' fault that the county did away with GT and decided to include more kids. Sometimes I have to wonder why some parents DON'T try to get their kids in.

Absolutely agree! If your child is a higher-level thinker, can learn quickly and easily, why wouldn't you try to get him/her in AAP? Why criticize the parents (and the kids) for trying to get the best education possible for their children? AAP is NOT the GT program of our youth, where only a few kids were pulled out for extra instruction. In fact, the AAP description on FCPS's web site does NOT use the word "gifted" once:

"The full-time AAP (level IV) center program for students in grades 3 through 8 offers identified students a highly challenging instructional program that follows the FCPS Program of Studies. Differentiation in the depth, breadth, and pace of instruction, along with a strong emphasis on higher level thinking skills is designed to meet the needs of advanced learners with a strong emphasis on higher level thinking skills. Adaptations are made to the curriculum in order to provide an appropriate level of challenge for advanced learners with a strong emphasis on critical and creative thinking, problem-solving, and decision-making.

The general education elementary school program offers instruction in the core curriculum as defined by FCPS Program of Studies (POS) and Virginia Standards of Learning (SOL)."

Great commentary - RTFM.....

Yes, but the GT program of even 2006 was not based on pulling out above average kids who would succeed in any environment either. So don't try to act like the GT program is ancient history. The whole busing and they have to have a center aspect was predicated on the need to get these extraordinarily intelligent kids, who often had other issues that got in the way of their using their gifts, in an environment of their peers. It was mandated as special education. I would like to see the language in the law that says kids who are merely advanced (which at grade 2 can often come from parent enrichment and other exposure that is separate from native intelligence) NEED to be in separate schools.

2006 was almost a decade ago. Yeah, sort of is ancient history. Fact is, it's 2014 and times have changed. Hey, now there won't be early dismissal on Mondays! Again, times have changed. Move on.