2014 AAP Appeal/WISC Scores

[Anonymous]

CoGat 120; GBRS 10; WISC 142; Mostly 4s and few 3 (in Spanish and Art); Rising 4th grader; DC - got in.

Was happy with GE in local school. But realized that I made a BIG mistake seeing how literally nothing was taught in GE class. No challenge at all. DC learnt to decorate all numbers and alphabets in class to kill time!!

'there are folks that say AAP or GE may makes no difference at high school level. If you think about it- do you really want your child to go through their developmental years with no challenge and expect the same kids to get aggressive around HS?? May be over the last few years GE has been so dumbed down that the GE about 5-10 years was better and therefore some parents with older kids think so.

On a side note the class teacher thought DC was AAP material and AART thought that DC wasn't. Heard that center school was overcrowded and local school wanted to retain as many kids as possible. So the teachers were actually gaming the system!!

So parents - if you think your kid is AAP material - do not hesitate and listen to the AAP haters ( I was one last year and though AAP mad-rush was madness)

Either FCPS improves the standards for all kids and challenge them accordingly; else AAP will be overcrowded. Right now Level 1 to 3 is merely a namesake program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:CoGat 120; GBRS 10; WISC 142; Mostly 4s and few 3 (in Spanish and Art); Rising 4th grader; DC - got in.

Was happy with GE in local school. But realized that I made a BIG mistake seeing how literally nothing was taught in GE class. No challenge at all. DC learnt to decorate all numbers and alphabets in class to kill time!!

'there are folks that say AAP or GE may makes no difference at high school level. If you think about it- do you really want your child to go through their developmental years with no challenge and expect the same kids to get aggressive around HS?? May be over the last few years GE has been so dumbed down that the GE about 5-10 years was better and therefore some parents with older kids think so.

On a side note the class teacher thought DC was AAP material and AART thought that DC wasn't. Heard that center school was overcrowded and local school wanted to retain as many kids as possible. So the teachers were actually gaming the system!!

So parents - if you think your kid is AAP material - do not hesitate and listen to the AAP haters ( I was one last year and though AAP mad-rush was madness)

Either FCPS improves the standards for all kids and challenge them accordingly; else AAP will be overcrowded. Right now Level 1 to 3 is merely a namesake program.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply - great feedback on score w/ an informed perspective

[Anonymous]

CoGat 121
GBRS 10
WISC 136

DC got in! Yay

[Anonymous]

I am not going to post WISC scores because I'm surely going to get flamed. Lowest I've seen so far.
My kid's FSIQ got pulled down 15 points by low processing speed and there are a lot of DCUMers who have said that Fairfax county doesn't count GAI.
So instead of identifying my kid by his WISC FSIQ, I do want to say that the FSIQ is still just one data point.
Besides, there is no published FSIQ cut off. There are cut offs for the NNAT and the CoGAT but DCUM was the one who determined the cut off for the WISC.

Here are other data points:
CoGAT and NNAT- below benchmark and the reason that we decided not to refer in 2nd grade. We loved our base school and was happy to stay there after having our first kid go through gen ed.
Grades- the standard 3s and 4s. Nothing impressive but good. Oddly enough, very similar grades to his best buddy who failed 2 SOLs.
SOLs- All pass advanced. One perfect score. Rest were near perfect.
Teacher support- teacher was non-committal so we figured she wasn't going to support him. Also said that he wasn't a great math student.
AART support- was not warm and fuzzy so we didn't count on that either.
GBRS- 10. Seeing the lack of support from teacher and AART, we can see why this was the score he got. Yes we were initially disappointed but after talking with our kid, we understand why he got those ratings. He agreed with 2 of the 4 ratings.
Work samples- the school's work samples were not good. We did submit work samples from home.

Data from the kid:
Motivation- Was not satisfied with school at all and said it was too easy. Didn't want to do homework. Or just did them then didn't turn them in. Said he was bored (I just heard DCUM gasp).
Personality- once he is given a challenge, he totally excels and motivation goes way up. Told us he loves math and that he's good at it.

I can already feel all the eyes rolling.

We told this kid to behave himself in class, suck it up and do his homework and to keep himself busy so he doesn't get bored.
He's such a know it all on top of all that. I'm sure he's really irritating in the classroom. Behavior problems, right? When he said he hated school, that's when we knew we had to figure out what was going on. He is the sweetest, most easy-going kid and his school behavior was so different from how we was in his other activities.

Other data we collected:
1) Achievement Tests- as administered by a psychologist. Showed he is functioning 2 and 3 grades above his current level in Math and Reading.
2) Above Grade Level tests- Kid took the the SCAT and as a 3rd grader, ranked in the 99th percentile of 5th graders in Math and Verbal Reasoning. The test required for him to answer 55 questions in 22 minutes on a computer. He finished the computerized tests with lots of time to spare but yet scored really low on processing speed on the paper and pencil WISC. The WISC tester did say that he didn't position his pencil correctly, but still, the result was a not impressive FSIQ.
3) Independent math assessment from a private company- it was actually our older kid's (who struggle's in math) tutor who clued us in to this kid's talents. They gave him a 4th grade math assessment at the beginning on 3rd grade and he passed it with a grade of an advanced 4th grader. This private company has AAP kids in there and the teacher has told us that while the AAP kids are book smart, our kid excels at reasoning and application.

While we don't know if this kid will "water down" your AAP classroom, we know for sure that he's bored in general ed because he's way too advanced for it and Level 3 is such a joke.
So knowing that there's data that shows his ability, why would we not advocate for this kid? We did look into private schools but do not want to spend that 30K a year. If AAP doesn't work, then we'll look into it again. But for now, we are pleased that the committee did take a holistic approach in accepting his appeal. I personally know someone whose kid got in the first round with below benchmark CoGAT and NNAT. We provided a lot of data, did our due diligence, and got to know our kid very well through this whole process. I'm pretty sure he won't have trouble keeping up with the 140+ FSIQs.

IQ is a potential- it's kind of like your income potential. Doesn't mean that you'll be making that money at some point in the future.
Achievement scores? Your paycheck shows you are making that money.
Ability scores? Who knows what the ceiling can be? Wow, you are able to make even more money and yeah, keep your skills up to stay ahead and so you can make more money.

[Anonymous]

21:17 - Well said. Glad to hear your advocacy for your kid and hopefully nudge this thread/forum in the right direction - folks make lots of judgments w/o any fact or limited perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am not going to post WISC scores because I'm surely going to get flamed. Lowest I've seen so far.
My kid's FSIQ got pulled down 15 points by low processing speed and there are a lot of DCUMers who have said that Fairfax county doesn't count GAI.
So instead of identifying my kid by his WISC FSIQ, I do want to say that the FSIQ is still just one data point.
Besides, there is no published FSIQ cut off. There are cut offs for the NNAT and the CoGAT but DCUM was the one who determined the cut off for the WISC.

Here are other data points:
CoGAT and NNAT- below benchmark and the reason that we decided not to refer in 2nd grade. We loved our base school and was happy to stay there after having our first kid go through gen ed.
Grades- the standard 3s and 4s. Nothing impressive but good. Oddly enough, very similar grades to his best buddy who failed 2 SOLs.
SOLs- All pass advanced. One perfect score. Rest were near perfect.
Teacher support- teacher was non-committal so we figured she wasn't going to support him. Also said that he wasn't a great math student.
AART support- was not warm and fuzzy so we didn't count on that either.
GBRS- 10. Seeing the lack of support from teacher and AART, we can see why this was the score he got. Yes we were initially disappointed but after talking with our kid, we understand why he got those ratings. He agreed with 2 of the 4 ratings.
Work samples- the school's work samples were not good. We did submit work samples from home.

WOW, great story.

Data from the kid:
Motivation- Was not satisfied with school at all and said it was too easy. Didn't want to do homework. Or just did them then didn't turn them in. Said he was bored (I just heard DCUM gasp).
Personality- once he is given a challenge, he totally excels and motivation goes way up. Told us he loves math and that he's good at it.

I can already feel all the eyes rolling.

We told this kid to behave himself in class, suck it up and do his homework and to keep himself busy so he doesn't get bored.
He's such a know it all on top of all that. I'm sure he's really irritating in the classroom. Behavior problems, right? When he said he hated school, that's when we knew we had to figure out what was going on. He is the sweetest, most easy-going kid and his school behavior was so different from how we was in his other activities.

Other data we collected:
1) Achievement Tests- as administered by a psychologist. Showed he is functioning 2 and 3 grades above his current level in Math and Reading.
2) Above Grade Level tests- Kid took the the SCAT and as a 3rd grader, ranked in the 99th percentile of 5th graders in Math and Verbal Reasoning. The test required for him to answer 55 questions in 22 minutes on a computer. He finished the computerized tests with lots of time to spare but yet scored really low on processing speed on the paper and pencil WISC. The WISC tester did say that he didn't position his pencil correctly, but still, the result was a not impressive FSIQ.
3) Independent math assessment from a private company- it was actually our older kid's (who struggle's in math) tutor who clued us in to this kid's talents. They gave him a 4th grade math assessment at the beginning on 3rd grade and he passed it with a grade of an advanced 4th grader. This private company has AAP kids in there and the teacher has told us that while the AAP kids are book smart, our kid excels at reasoning and application.

While we don't know if this kid will "water down" your AAP classroom, we know for sure that he's bored in general ed because he's way too advanced for it and Level 3 is such a joke.
So knowing that there's data that shows his ability, why would we not advocate for this kid? We did look into private schools but do not want to spend that 30K a year. If AAP doesn't work, then we'll look into it again. But for now, we are pleased that the committee did take a holistic approach in accepting his appeal. I personally know someone whose kid got in the first round with below benchmark CoGAT and NNAT. We provided a lot of data, did our due diligence, and got to know our kid very well through this whole process. I'm pretty sure he won't have trouble keeping up with the 140+ FSIQs.

IQ is a potential- it's kind of like your income potential. Doesn't mean that you'll be making that money at some point in the future.
Achievement scores? Your paycheck shows you are making that money.
Ability scores? Who knows what the ceiling can be? Wow, you are able to make even more money and yeah, keep your skills up to stay ahead and so you can make more money.

[Anonymous]

Does the AAP office acknowledge response to approval notice? If so, has anyone who responded to approval received confirmation email?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does the AAP office acknowledge response to approval notice? If so, has anyone who responded to approval received confirmation email?

Yes, today we received email confirmation from fcps on receipt of permission for AAP placement, school will be notified at the end of this week (they already know), transportation and school supply info to be shared in August.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does the AAP office acknowledge response to approval notice? If so, has anyone who responded to approval received confirmation email?

Yes, today we received email confirmation from fcps on receipt of permission for AAP placement, school will be notified at the end of this week (they already know), transportation and school supply info to be shared in August.

+ 1. Recd the email today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: 21:17 - Well said. Glad to hear your advocacy for your kid and hopefully nudge this thread/forum in the right direction - folks make lots of judgments w/o any fact or limited perspective.

Yes, 21:17 made her case. She also made the case for why AAP as currently configured does not work. One can only imagine how many smarter kids whose parents didn't/couldn't work the appeals system are still in GE not being challenged. This is an inequitable program that needs to be rethought. And I say that as a parent of an AAP kid and sibs who did fine in GE. If the system is now set up to allow some kids of middling intelligence to be bused to a different school for advanced kids out of some perceived need, it is a broken inequitable system.

As a side note, there seem to be an increasing number of kids with "slow processing speed" being identified for advanced academics. Given that the world often doesn't make allowances for those who are slow to arrive at answers, one wonders what the public school system -- with its b.s. extra time allowances for testing -- is setting these kids up for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: 21:17 - Well said. Glad to hear your advocacy for your kid and hopefully nudge this thread/forum in the right direction - folks make lots of judgments w/o any fact or limited perspective.

Yes, 21:17 made her case. She also made the case for why AAP as currently configured does not work. One can only imagine how many smarter kids whose parents didn't/couldn't work the appeals system are still in GE not being challenged. This is an inequitable program that needs to be rethought. And I say that as a parent of an AAP kid and sibs who did fine in GE. If the system is now set up to allow some kids of middling intelligence to be bused to a different school for advanced kids out of some perceived need, it is a broken inequitable system.

As a side note, there seem to be an increasing number of kids with "slow processing speed" being identified for advanced academics. Given that the world often doesn't make allowances for those who are slow to arrive at answers, one wonders what the public school system -- with its b.s. extra time allowances for testing -- is setting these kids up for.

So twice exceptional students should not have their needs met in the classroom because you state it is b.s.?!?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: 21:17 - Well said. Glad to hear your advocacy for your kid and hopefully nudge this thread/forum in the right direction - folks make lots of judgments w/o any fact or limited perspective.

Yes, 21:17 made her case. She also made the case for why AAP as currently configured does not work. One can only imagine how many smarter kids whose parents didn't/couldn't work the appeals system are still in GE not being challenged. This is an inequitable program that needs to be rethought. And I say that as a parent of an AAP kid and sibs who did fine in GE. If the system is now set up to allow some kids of middling intelligence to be bused to a different school for advanced kids out of some perceived need, it is a broken inequitable system.

As a side note, there seem to be an increasing number of kids with "slow processing speed" being identified for advanced academics. Given that the world often doesn't make allowances for those who are slow to arrive at answers, one wonders what the public school system -- with its b.s. extra time allowances for testing -- is setting these kids up for.

So twice exceptional students should not have their needs met in the classroom because you state it is b.s.?!?

Sigh. Can folks share their scores/appeal results w/o a philosophy discussion on AAP? The appeals process is available to everyone and yes FCPS should do a better job of building awareness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: 21:17 - Well said. Glad to hear your advocacy for your kid and hopefully nudge this thread/forum in the right direction - folks make lots of judgments w/o any fact or limited perspective.

Yes, 21:17 made her case. She also made the case for why AAP as currently configured does not work. One can only imagine how many smarter kids whose parents didn't/couldn't work the appeals system are still in GE not being challenged. This is an inequitable program that needs to be rethought. And I say that as a parent of an AAP kid and sibs who did fine in GE. If the system is now set up to allow some kids of middling intelligence to be bused to a different school for advanced kids out of some perceived need, it is a broken inequitable system.

As a side note, there seem to be an increasing number of kids with "slow processing speed" being identified for advanced academics. Given that the world often doesn't make allowances for those who are slow to arrive at answers, one wonders what the public school system -- with its b.s. extra time allowances for testing -- is setting these kids up for.

[b]So twice exceptional students should not have their needs met in the classroom because you state it is b.s.?!?

[/b

Not if they're really twice exceptional. But lets just remember that before AAP became so easy to get into, many parents pushed the special ed route in FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

As a side note, there seem to be an increasing number of kids with "slow processing speed" being identified for advanced academics. Given that the world often doesn't make allowances for those who are slow to arrive at answers, one wonders what the public school system -- with its b.s. extra time allowances for testing -- is setting these kids up for.

If you do your research, you will find that it's not unusual for gifted students to have slow processing speed.

[Anonymous]

My child was accepted on appeal with a Wisc score of 133. His cogat was 128 and his nnat was 138.