Giving teenagers birth-control= Encouraging them to have sex?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The way I see it is, humans have created a lot of baggage to go along with sexuality. Sure, there are reasons for the baggage. Sex can lead to all kinds of trouble. So just like the Jews had various rules about food - what could touch what, what you could eat and what you couldn't - because you could get sick if you ate the wrong thing, we've come up with rules and guidelines about sex. And we codify those rules through our religions.

Sex is also very powerful and wonderful and kinda nasty and a tool for controlling women - so we layer on more taboos and rules and punishments. Men's licentiousness typically was ignored or even condoned while a woman could be subjected to the worst kinds of punishment for sex outside of what was permitted by her society. See a fedw of the wives of Henry VIII vs. his known bastards for and example of what I mean.

I prefer to have a scientific basis for my attitudes towards eating the flesh of cloven beasts, for example, and towards sex. Sex is a natural biological process. It is a natural part of being an adult human being. Sex within marriage, with true love, certainly may be ideal and can be a spiritual experience. Sex between two consenting adults who choose to freely embrace each other, whether in love or not, can also be very pleasant and satisfying. I hope to raise my children to wear their seatbelts, get the oil in their car changed regularly, balance their checkbook, and use birth control and condoms when having sex. Unlike my Catholic upbringing, I hope to never convey to them that sex is bad, that their bodies are in any way impure, that masturbation is their right and privlege, that virginity or marriage are the only options for "good" girls. I hope that they have sex with a healthy number of partners while they are young adults so that they can try on and learn about different kinds of relationships and love, and what best suits them, before they take a spouse. If they ever take a spouse. Which I am trying not to convey an opinion about to them, either, but sometimes I hope they never do get married at all.

We are very lucky to live in an age when we can make smart choices that are best for us instead of having to live in terror of illegitimacy, disease, ostracization and punishment.

I don't think being a 25 year old virgin is healthy. I certainly hope my daughters are not so socially retarded that they are 25 years old and still a virgin. I also hope they aren't having sex at say, 15 or 16. Having lost my virginity at 19 to the man I married - and had to divorce because he's a lying, cheating SOB - I think I waited too long and limited my experience too much.

I think divorce is rising because people are no longer forced to remain in bad marriages. I think that if I hadn't had a job and an education I would have been forced to remain with my cheating husband - because I would have had no other option for supporting myself and my children. And I can't believe that anyone would suggest that staying in a bad or abusive marriage is better for ANYBODY, including the children.

I should have been having lots of safe sex when I was young, thin, attractive, and learning about men. I honestly wish I had done so instead of protecting my cherished chastity. What a waste.

Do you know Catholic teaching about sex? Have you ever read Theology of the Body, or the Catechism? Where do these false ideas about Catholic teaching come from?

Kindergarten through senior year of Catholic school, lady. Uniforms, nuns, and weekly mass. Singing in the choir and play the V Mary more than once n the school Christmas play. "Official" catechism aside, don't try to gloss over the realities of sex and the roles of women in the Catholic tradition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

TheManWithAUsername wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But WHY must a teen live a chaste life? If they are responsible about birth control and their health, why is sex SO TERRIBLE?

Off topic, but I agree with you. Pregnancy and disease issues aside, my first hope for my DD losing her virginity is that it won't be date rape. Hope number two is that it won't be something she regrets or feels shame about. Number three is that it will be something she feels really good about years later, but that's pretty wishful. Most women I've spoken to about it have a story they feel basically neutral about, often with vague regret - he was there, and I felt like it.

I don't know what she'll be like in her teens, but if she ends up having a safe sex life and not feeling bad about it, good for her.

Now I just have to make sure she never gets her hands on this post.

.


Username, why set the bar so low for your daughter?? You hope her first experience isn't RAPE??? That is your great hope for her?? Shudder.

I suspect Username wrote that because he knows how prevalent date rape is. It happened to my daughter and it happens a lot more than people realize. I always laughed cynically when I went on the college tours and they told us how safe their campus is because they have blue lights where you can call for help if a stranger is attacking you. The reality is that our daughters are more likely to be attacked by boys they know.

[Anonymous]

"STDs are up, because of chlamydia."

Yes, rates are up because we test more now than ever before and have urine based testing so that's it's easier to test.

Actual rates of sexual intercourse are down from the 90s when I was in high school. Check out the YRBS results from 2009 on the CDC website.

[TheManWithAUsername]

Anonymous wrote:"STDs are up, because of chlamydia."

Yes, rates are up because we test more now than ever before and have urine based testing so that's it's easier to test.

Thanks. I suspected it was something like that, but didn't know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: Kindergarten through senior year of Catholic school, lady. Uniforms, nuns, and weekly mass. Singing in the choir and play the V Mary more than once n the school Christmas play. "Official" catechism aside, don't try to gloss over the realities of sex and the roles of women in the Catholic tradition.

What on earth is this role of the women in the catholic tradition? I know the church used to burn women at the stake because of witchcraft. What else is there?
I have heard the story of the submissive ever pregnant wife, but that is mostly cultural and differs from one population group to another. With the Latino and the Mediterranian region being more shovinistic, and the more northen Europeans more equal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Kindergarten through senior year of Catholic school, lady. Uniforms, nuns, and weekly mass. Singing in the choir and play the V Mary more than once n the school Christmas play. "Official" catechism aside, don't try to gloss over the realities of sex and the roles of women in the Catholic tradition.

What on earth is this role of the women in the catholic tradition? I know the church used to burn women at the stake because of witchcraft. What else is there?
I have heard the story of the submissive ever pregnant wife, but that is mostly cultural and differs from one population group to another. With the Latino and the Mediterranian region being more shovinistic, and the more northen Europeans more equal

Please tell me you're joking.

I'm another K-12 Catholic school person. And the reality of women as second class in Catholicism starts with Adam and Eve (Eve tempting Adam to taking a bite of the apple . . . ) Mary Magdalene the whore who tempted Christ (of which modern interpretations differ -and no, I don't mean the Da Vinci Cod). Women aren't allowed to be priests. Girls (until very recently) weren't allowed to be servers. That's just the explicit differences.

Trust me, the less obvious stuff is there, as well.

People want to be Catholic . . . that's their choice. But, let's not act like the Church's views and practices towards women is something that it is not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Kindergarten through senior year of Catholic school, lady. Uniforms, nuns, and weekly mass. Singing in the choir and play the V Mary more than once n the school Christmas play. "Official" catechism aside, don't try to gloss over the realities of sex and the roles of women in the Catholic tradition.

What on earth is this role of the women in the catholic tradition? I know the church used to burn women at the stake because of witchcraft. What else is there?
I have heard the story of the submissive ever pregnant wife, but that is mostly cultural and differs from one population group to another. With the Latino and the Mediterranian region being more shovinistic, and the more northen Europeans more equal

Please tell me you're joking.

I'm another K-12 Catholic school person. And the reality of women as second class in Catholicism starts with Adam and Eve (Eve tempting Adam to taking a bite of the apple . . . ) Mary Magdalene the whore who tempted Christ (of which modern interpretations differ -and no, I don't mean the Da Vinci Cod). Women aren't allowed to be priests. Girls (until very recently) weren't allowed to be servers. That's just the explicit differences.

Trust me, the less obvious stuff is there, as well.

People want to be Catholic . . . that's their choice. But, let's not act like the Church's views and practices towards women is something that it is not.

Read Pope John Paul II's Letter to Women:

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_let_29061995_women_en.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Kindergarten through senior year of Catholic school, lady. Uniforms, nuns, and weekly mass. Singing in the choir and play the V Mary more than once n the school Christmas play. "Official" catechism aside, don't try to gloss over the realities of sex and the roles of women in the Catholic tradition.

What on earth is this role of the women in the catholic tradition? I know the church used to burn women at the stake because of witchcraft. What else is there?
I have heard the story of the submissive ever pregnant wife, but that is mostly cultural and differs from one population group to another. With the Latino and the Mediterranian region being more shovinistic, and the more northen Europeans more equal

Please tell me you're joking.

I'm another K-12 Catholic school person. And the reality of women as second class in Catholicism starts with Adam and Eve (Eve tempting Adam to taking a bite of the apple . . . ) Mary Magdalene the whore who tempted Christ (of which modern interpretations differ -and no, I don't mean the Da Vinci Cod). Women aren't allowed to be priests. Girls (until very recently) weren't allowed to be servers. That's just the explicit differences.

Trust me, the less obvious stuff is there, as well.

People want to be Catholic . . . that's their choice. But, let's not act like the Church's views and practices towards women is something that it is not.

Read Pope John Paul II's Letter to Women:

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_let_29061995_women_en.html

Awesome! Until he gets to part 11, where he as employer justifies discrimination in his workplace based on a very dodgy interpretation of the Gospel.

Women you are beautiful, whether you are pregnant or work, in education, business, and in the home! We love you! And!!!! "one can also appreciate that the presence of a certain diversity of roles is in no way prejudicial to women, provided that this diversity is not the result of an arbitrary imposition, but is rather an expression of what is specific to being male and female." A Certain Diversity! Of Roles! Based on Gender!... wait, that didn't sound so good after I said it.

Honey, you are terrific, really. So special. Just not in my company. We have a great job in the steno pool for you. It's your nature.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate to say it, but two studies looked at parental influence on teen sex. It turns out that the #1 factor in teens delaying sex was that their mothers disapproved of them having sex. quote]

But why is it important for teens to delay sex? We don't want them to get pregnant. We don't want them to get diseases. There are ways to prevent or reduce the risks of that.

When are we OK with our kids having sex? 17? 20? Marriage

I think I'd rather have a smart, sexually active 16 year old with a full sex education and a positive attitude about sex and her body than a 19 year old virgin with sexual hang ups.

Those aren't the only two choices. Maybe that's what MTV and Hollywood preach as gospel, but it is simply not true. Young people can have a healthy, full, real understanding of and appreciation for sex, be smart and attractive, and live chaste lives. Why is that so hard to imagine?

But WHY must a teen live a chaste life? If they are responsible about birth control and their health, why is sex SO TERRIBLE? You don't answer the question - how old is old enough to have premarital sex? Or are we going with biblical approach here - not until marriage, even if that's much, much later in life?

Again, you are creating a false dichotomy: chastity/sex is SO TERRIBLE versus indulgence/sex is SO WONDERFUL. Chastity actually reveres sex as wonderful--so wonderful, that its natural boundaries must be respected so it can be fully enjoyed. Indulgence actually lessens the value and enjoyment of sex. No matter what your religious background, there is an objective difference between drunken hook-ups and making love with the spouse who knows you, respects you, cherishes you, and wants to satisfy your every desire, not just gratify him/herself.

And reserving sex for marriage has been an overwhelmingly universal cultural norm throughout human history, because sex can lead to children, and children have a right to be born to the parents who created them, who are committed to each other and to caring for their well-being.

Look, I know that chastity, self-denial, self-restraint, and the link between sex and procreation are generally perceived as idealistic but impossible at best, harmful at worst. And appreciation for the true meaning of sex is a package deal--I can't just sketch out a few random aspects and make a coherent whole.

But the coherent whole is out there. There is a true meaning. We can ignore that fact, and make up our own rules (as long as we love each other...as long as we use three kinds of birth control...as long as we are both virgins...as long as I don't get a disease or get pregnant with the wrong guy...as long as I am at least 16, or 15, or 14, or have had a period), but we'll still slam up against the truth, whether we know it or not.

And the truth is, the Creator of sex built in fabulous pleasure, powerful bonds, incredible fun and joy, and the ability to participate in creation through mutual love. But in order to fully appreciate all this, we also needed the freedom to choose all that is good, or a lesser good, or the opposite of good.

So we don't get struck by lightning if we go outside the design. But we do get hurt, on a spectrum of hurt, and in all the ways humans can be hurt: physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually.

So chastity is not a curse, it is a blessing. If life circumstances require chastity for 10 years, 20 years, or a lifetime, it is still a blessing. Even within a marriage, there may be need for chastity. Ask military spouses how 14 month deployments feel, especially since most military are in the prime of their sexual lives. What about prolonged illness, or other necessary separations. If you know the truth about sex and love, you know selflessness is a vital part of it.

But cultural winds blow against these ideas, and they are written off. And divorce, youth suicide and depression, STD rates, abortion, date rape, ED from overuse of porn...all these negatives keep getting more prevalent, and we only meet the answer partway: triple up on birth control! Get tested often! Marry later, or never! Don't get too attached!

But the truth doesn't change.

Our children deserve better that "this, but...". They deserve the full truth. And since they are human, and humans make mistakes, they deserve loving compassion when they mess up. But we should never pretend we can just lower the bar and still get the full experience. It's just not true.

Beautifully, beautifully stated PP. Just wanted to let you know that you are not alone. I too believe this is the truth, and that some people have completely abandoned any acceptance of a moral life with regard to sexuality, because it is just so damn hard. Many people do not really understand the potential in leading a life that might need to incorporate self-denial, sacrifice and chastity. MUCH easier is to argue your way inside and out about how this could not possibly be true or relevant. Wish I had the time/energy to back you up and debate, but I don't and you are truly stating everything just perfectly.

[Anonymous]

Please tell me you're joking.

I'm another K-12 Catholic school person. And the reality of women as second class in Catholicism starts with Adam and Eve (Eve tempting Adam to taking a bite of the apple . . . ) Mary Magdalene the whore who tempted Christ (of which modern interpretations differ -and no, I don't mean the Da Vinci Cod). Women aren't allowed to be priests. Girls (until very recently) weren't allowed to be servers. That's just the explicit differences.

Trust me, the less obvious stuff is there, as well.

People want to be Catholic . . . that's their choice. But, let's not act like the Church's views and practices towards women is something that it is not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Those aren't the only two choices. Maybe that's what MTV and Hollywood preach as gospel, but it is simply not true. Young people can have a healthy, full, real understanding of and appreciation for sex, be smart and attractive, and live chaste lives. Why is that so hard to imagine?

But WHY must a teen live a chaste life? If they are responsible about birth control and their health, why is sex SO TERRIBLE? You don't answer the question - how old is old enough to have premarital sex? Or are we going with biblical approach here - not until marriage, even if that's much, much later in life?

Again, you are creating a false dichotomy: chastity/sex is SO TERRIBLE versus indulgence/sex is SO WONDERFUL. Chastity actually reveres sex as wonderful--so wonderful, that its natural boundaries must be respected so it can be fully enjoyed. Indulgence actually lessens the value and enjoyment of sex. No matter what your religious background, there is an objective difference between drunken hook-ups and making love with the spouse who knows you, respects you, cherishes you, and wants to satisfy your every desire, not just gratify him/herself.

And reserving sex for marriage has been an overwhelmingly universal cultural norm throughout human history, because sex can lead to children, and children have a right to be born to the parents who created them, who are committed to each other and to caring for their well-being.

Look, I know that chastity, self-denial, self-restraint, and the link between sex and procreation are generally perceived as idealistic but impossible at best, harmful at worst. And appreciation for the true meaning of sex is a package deal--I can't just sketch out a few random aspects and make a coherent whole.

But the coherent whole is out there. There is a true meaning. We can ignore that fact, and make up our own rules (as long as we love each other...as long as we use three kinds of birth control...as long as we are both virgins...as long as I don't get a disease or get pregnant with the wrong guy...as long as I am at least 16, or 15, or 14, or have had a period), but we'll still slam up against the truth, whether we know it or not.

And the truth is, the Creator of sex built in fabulous pleasure, powerful bonds, incredible fun and joy, and the ability to participate in creation through mutual love. But in order to fully appreciate all this, we also needed the freedom to choose all that is good, or a lesser good, or the opposite of good.

So we don't get struck by lightning if we go outside the design. But we do get hurt, on a spectrum of hurt, and in all the ways humans can be hurt: physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually.

So chastity is not a curse, it is a blessing. If life circumstances require chastity for 10 years, 20 years, or a lifetime, it is still a blessing. Even within a marriage, there may be need for chastity. Ask military spouses how 14 month deployments feel, especially since most military are in the prime of their sexual lives. What about prolonged illness, or other necessary separations. If you know the truth about sex and love, you know selflessness is a vital part of it.

But cultural winds blow against these ideas, and they are written off. And divorce, youth suicide and depression, STD rates, abortion, date rape, ED from overuse of porn...all these negatives keep getting more prevalent, and we only meet the answer partway: triple up on birth control! Get tested often! Marry later, or never! Don't get too attached!

But the truth doesn't change.

Our children deserve better that "this, but...". They deserve the full truth. And since they are human, and humans make mistakes, they deserve loving compassion when they mess up. But we should never pretend we can just lower the bar and still get the full experience. It's just not true.

FWIW, I don't believe in God but I basically agree with what this poster is saying. With the possible exception that I don't think you necessarily have to be married to have emotionally healthy sex with a committed partner (and I think this type of relationship can be had in a same-sex couple, which I'm sure she doesn't). I had plenty of casual sex as a young adult and it was absolutely due to low self-esteem and a lack of understanding of what sex can be. My husband, who has great self-esteem, had many fewer sexual partners prior to marriage than I did, and almost all were serious relationships. He's not religious either, but he recoiled from casual sex -- it just felt wrong to him.

To the initial question, this is a tough one. Since I only have sons and they can easily purchase condoms, I probably won't be in a position to need to help them procure contraception, but I hope that I will have built the kind of relationship with them where we can talk openly about sex and discuss the ideas that the poster I quoted mentions. My parents said "wait until marriage" (making it clear they knew I wouldn't) but never said anything about why delaying sex might be a good idea, and consequently their admonition fell on deaf ears.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Oy! I think my intelligent, educated, 32-year old DH must have been shipped straight from the stone age to 2011. He thinks offering a teenager birth-control (pills, condoms etc) is essentially endorsing pre-marital/ pre -mature sex. According to him, all you need to do is talk to them about the repercussions of having sex as teenagers and leave it at that. In other words, just tell them not to do it.

I disagree, I will advise my teenager not to have sex but will offer them birth control at the same, just in case they choose not to listen to me.

Which one of us is delusional here?

You are wrong. Your husband is right.

OP isn't delusional but you are. Good heavens, kids become sexually active at age 12 nowadays. I would rather educate them about unwanted pregnancies and birth control and the need to still use a condom for both vaginal and oral sex. I don't want my 16 yr. old son to become a father for at least another ten years (even longer) and I don't want my 14 yr. old daughter to get pregnant and I sure as hell don't want them to get a STD. Yes, I have done so and, OP, you aren't delusional.

[TheManWithAUsername]

Anonymous wrote:Since I only have sons and they can easily purchase condoms, I probably won't be in a position to need to help them procure contraception

Don't be so sure. I had multiple experiences as a teen being turned down trying to buy condoms.

I don't know what the clerks were thinking - maybe that it would inappropriately encourage me to have sex? Fortunately, their efforts to promote teen pregnancy and VD failed.

[Anonymous]

TheManWithAUsername wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since I only have sons and they can easily purchase condoms, I probably won't be in a position to need to help them procure contraception

Don't be so sure. I had multiple experiences as a teen being turned down trying to buy condoms.

I don't know what the clerks were thinking - maybe that it would inappropriately encourage me to have sex? Fortunately, their efforts to promote teen pregnancy and VD failed.

LOL!

[Anonymous]

I knew of a 16 year old boy who was actually given a condom.
He put it at the end of the exhaust of his motorized bike to see how big it would grow

His mother was so Proud!!