Giving teenagers birth-control= Encouraging them to have sex?

[TheManWithAUsername]

Anonymous wrote:But WHY must a teen live a chaste life? If they are responsible about birth control and their health, why is sex SO TERRIBLE?

Off topic, but I agree with you. Pregnancy and disease issues aside, my first hope for my DD losing her virginity is that it won't be date rape. Hope number two is that it won't be something she regrets or feels shame about. Number three is that it will be something she feels really good about years later, but that's pretty wishful. Most women I've spoken to about it have a story they feel basically neutral about, often with vague regret - he was there, and I felt like it.

I don't know what she'll be like in her teens, but if she ends up having a safe sex life and not feeling bad about it, good for her.

Now I just have to make sure she never gets her hands on this post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate to say it, but two studies looked at parental influence on teen sex. It turns out that the #1 factor in teens delaying sex was that their mothers disapproved of them having sex. quote]

But why is it important for teens to delay sex? We don't want them to get pregnant. We don't want them to get diseases. There are ways to prevent or reduce the risks of that.

When are we OK with our kids having sex? 17? 20? Marriage

I think I'd rather have a smart, sexually active 16 year old with a full sex education and a positive attitude about sex and her body than a 19 year old virgin with sexual hang ups.

Those aren't the only two choices. Maybe that's what MTV and Hollywood preach as gospel, but it is simply not true. Young people can have a healthy, full, real understanding of and appreciation for sex, be smart and attractive, and live chaste lives. Why is that so hard to imagine?

But WHY must a teen live a chaste life? If they are responsible about birth control and their health, why is sex SO TERRIBLE? You don't answer the question - how old is old enough to have premarital sex? Or are we going with biblical approach here - not until marriage, even if that's much, much later in life?

Again, you are creating a false dichotomy: chastity/sex is SO TERRIBLE versus indulgence/sex is SO WONDERFUL. Chastity actually reveres sex as wonderful--so wonderful, that its natural boundaries must be respected so it can be fully enjoyed. Indulgence actually lessens the value and enjoyment of sex. No matter what your religious background, there is an objective difference between drunken hook-ups and making love with the spouse who knows you, respects you, cherishes you, and wants to satisfy your every desire, not just gratify him/herself.

And reserving sex for marriage has been an overwhelmingly universal cultural norm throughout human history, because sex can lead to children, and children have a right to be born to the parents who created them, who are committed to each other and to caring for their well-being.

Look, I know that chastity, self-denial, self-restraint, and the link between sex and procreation are generally perceived as idealistic but impossible at best, harmful at worst. And appreciation for the true meaning of sex is a package deal--I can't just sketch out a few random aspects and make a coherent whole.

But the coherent whole is out there. There is a true meaning. We can ignore that fact, and make up our own rules (as long as we love each other...as long as we use three kinds of birth control...as long as we are both virgins...as long as I don't get a disease or get pregnant with the wrong guy...as long as I am at least 16, or 15, or 14, or have had a period), but we'll still slam up against the truth, whether we know it or not.

And the truth is, the Creator of sex built in fabulous pleasure, powerful bonds, incredible fun and joy, and the ability to participate in creation through mutual love. But in order to fully appreciate all this, we also needed the freedom to choose all that is good, or a lesser good, or the opposite of good.

So we don't get struck by lightning if we go outside the design. But we do get hurt, on a spectrum of hurt, and in all the ways humans can be hurt: physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually.

So chastity is not a curse, it is a blessing. If life circumstances require chastity for 10 years, 20 years, or a lifetime, it is still a blessing. Even within a marriage, there may be need for chastity. Ask military spouses how 14 month deployments feel, especially since most military are in the prime of their sexual lives. What about prolonged illness, or other necessary separations. If you know the truth about sex and love, you know selflessness is a vital part of it.

But cultural winds blow against these ideas, and they are written off. And divorce, youth suicide and depression, STD rates, abortion, date rape, ED from overuse of porn...all these negatives keep getting more prevalent, and we only meet the answer partway: triple up on birth control! Get tested often! Marry later, or never! Don't get too attached!

But the truth doesn't change.

Our children deserve better that "this, but...". They deserve the full truth. And since they are human, and humans make mistakes, they deserve loving compassion when they mess up. But we should never pretend we can just lower the bar and still get the full experience. It's just not true.

[Anonymous]

I was put on the pill when I was 14 because of polycystic ovary syndrome. I actually had to have emergency surgery when one of the cysts became painful and ruptured (they thought it was my appendix). I was on the pill from the age 14 all the way until I went off to have children. First age I had sex was 21.

[Anonymous]

TheManWithAUsername wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But WHY must a teen live a chaste life? If they are responsible about birth control and their health, why is sex SO TERRIBLE?

Off topic, but I agree with you. Pregnancy and disease issues aside, my first hope for my DD losing her virginity is that it won't be date rape. Hope number two is that it won't be something she regrets or feels shame about. Number three is that it will be something she feels really good about years later, but that's pretty wishful. Most women I've spoken to about it have a story they feel basically neutral about, often with vague regret - he was there, and I felt like it.

I don't know what she'll be like in her teens, but if she ends up having a safe sex life and not feeling bad about it, good for her.

Now I just have to make sure she never gets her hands on this post.

.


Username, why set the bar so low for your daughter?? You hope her first experience isn't RAPE??? That is your great hope for her?? Shudder.

And you hope she will have something she feels good about? What if that requires years of self-delusion? What if she thinks, "I guess this is all I'm good for now."

My first experience was a date/statutory rape. I was barely 15. He was in the Army. We had been pen pals through the Gulf War, through my school. Afterwards, when i was confused and sad, i was surrounded by peers who cheered me on. Sex is fun, sex is great. I could not understand why I felt so completely attached to this man. It took me more than a decade of self-destruction and therapy before I started to figure things out.

Username, for God's sake, respect your daughter more before she picks up on your low standards for her.

[TheManWithAUsername]

Anonymous wrote:Again, you are creating a false dichotomy: chastity/sex is SO TERRIBLE versus indulgence/sex is SO WONDERFUL....No matter what your religious background, there is an objective difference between drunken hook-ups and making love with the spouse who knows you, respects you, cherishes you, and wants to satisfy your every desire, not just gratify him/herself.

Who's creating a false dichotomy now?

Anonymous wrote:And reserving sex for marriage has been an overwhelmingly universal cultural norm throughout human history...

I don't know, but I've never heard any expert state or suggest that. Can you support that?

Anonymous wrote:...because sex can lead to children, and children have a right to be born to the parents who created them, who are committed to each other and to caring for their well-being.

We now have very good controls for that, obviously. Pregnancy is a great reason for marriage, and disease is a great reason for monogamy, but we can control those factors.

Anonymous wrote:We can ignore that fact, and make up our own rules (as long as we love each other...as long as we use three kinds of birth control...as long as we are both virgins...as long as I don't get a disease or get pregnant with the wrong guy...as long as I am at least 16, or 15, or 14, or have had a period), but we'll still slam up against the truth, whether we know it or not.

And the truth is, the Creator of sex built in fabulous pleasure, powerful bonds, incredible fun and joy, and the ability to participate in creation through mutual love. But in order to fully appreciate all this, we also needed the freedom to choose all that is good, or a lesser good, or the opposite of good.

You're not going to convince many non-believers with reliance upon references to "the Creator," God's truth, etc., and you probably don't have this dispute much with serious believers.

Anonymous wrote:But cultural winds blow against these ideas, and they are written off. And divorce, youth suicide and depression, STD rates, abortion, date rape, ED from overuse of porn...all these negatives keep getting more prevalent, and we only meet the answer partway

Divorce rates are way down, according to this anti-divorce group: http://www.divorcereform.org/rates.html#anchor1135037

Youth suicide has declined dramatically in the last 15 years, and was stable for the preceding 20 years: http://www.suicidology.org/c/document_library/get_file?folderId=232&name=DLFE-24.pdf

Abortion has steadily declined in the last 30 years: http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/graphusabrate.html

STDs are up, because of chlamydia. I assume depression is up, if only b/c of diagnosis. I don't have stats on date rape, which would never be reliable. Presumably porn use is way up, but I kinda think that has something to do with the internet, and not acceptance of teen sex.

You casually stated completely incorrect information for the sake of drama. Needless to say, you offered nothing to tie the trends either way to attitudes about teen sex.

BTW, you know where teen pregnancy is much lower? - Europe, where they have very different ideas about teen sex.

[TheManWithAUsername]

Anonymous wrote:Username, why set the bar so low for your daughter?? You hope her first experience isn't RAPE??? That is your great hope for her?? Shudder.

You need to read better.

Anonymous wrote:And you hope she will have something she feels good about? What if that requires years of self-delusion? What if she thinks, "I guess this is all I'm good for now."

I don't understand this part.
1) Yes, I do hope that she feels good about her sex life, at whatever age she starts.
2) Would I trade her having years of self-delusion for her enjoying her sex life. I dunno - depends - self-delusion about what? - how many years? I'm totally lost as to the connection, anyway.
3) What if she thinks that she's only good for sex? I wouldn't want that for her, obviously. What's your point?

Anonymous wrote:My first experience was a date/statutory rape. I was barely 15. He was in the Army. We had been pen pals through the Gulf War, through my school. Afterwards, when i was confused and sad, i was surrounded by peers who cheered me on. Sex is fun, sex is great. I could not understand why I felt so completely attached to this man. It took me more than a decade of self-destruction and therapy before I started to figure things out.

As I said, by far the worst thing would be date rape. If the worst thing she can say about her first experience is that she could have chosen better, that's no big deal. You obviously have a far more negative experience than that, which is a shame.

Anonymous wrote:Username, for God's sake, respect your daughter more before she picks up on your low standards for her.

What low standard? My first priority - outside of pregnancy and disease - are that she not have an experience like yours. I would think that you would agree, so I don't understand all the sanctimony.

[Anonymous]

But WHY must a teen live a chaste life? If they are responsible about birth control and their health, why is sex SO TERRIBLE? You don't answer the question - how old is old enough to have premarital sex? Or are we going with biblical approach here - not until marriage, even if that's much, much later in life?

Again, you are creating a false dichotomy: chastity/sex is SO TERRIBLE versus indulgence/sex is SO WONDERFUL.

No - YOU are creating this false dicotomy.

And reserving sex for marriage has been an overwhelmingly universal cultural norm throughout human history, because sex can lead to children, and children have a right to be born to the parents who created them, who are committed to each other and to caring for their well-being.

Throughout history, we didn't have birth control. But we had lots of illegitimate children, veneral diseases, and really warped attitudes towards sex. "History" is full of all kinds of bad things. Just because "that's the way it's always been" doesn't mean it's good or right.

And the truth is, the Creator of sex built in fabulous pleasure, powerful bonds, incredible fun and joy, and the ability to participate in creation through mutual love. But in order to fully appreciate all this, we also needed the freedom to choose all that is good, or a lesser good, or the opposite of good.

That's nice that you believe that. But not everybody agrees with you.
So chastity is not a curse, it is a blessing. If life circumstances require chastity for 10 years, 20 years, or a lifetime, it is still a blessing. Even within a marriage, there may be need for chastity. Ask military spouses how 14 month deployments feel, especially since most military are in the prime of their sexual lives. What about prolonged illness, or other necessary separations. If you know the truth about sex and love, you know selflessness is a vital part of it.

So you are saying that if your child does not marry until say, age 35, the ideal would be that they are still a virgin.

[Anonymous]

I'd rather not go back to the sexual laws of the bible. I take moral issue with many of those laws. Child marriage, arranged marriages, buying of brides...um, no thanks. Do we need to even discuss the buying of and forced marriages of rape victims? Just because you think it's what your creator decreed doesn't make it right.

[Anonymous]

"So chastity is not a curse, it is a blessing. If life circumstances require chastity for 10 years, 20 years, or a lifetime, it is still a blessing. Even within a marriage, there may be need for chastity. Ask military spouses how 14 month deployments feel, especially since most military are in the prime of their sexual lives."

What are the stats on chastity of military spouses during 14 month deployments? How is it still a blessing?

[Anonymous]

The way I see it is, humans have created a lot of baggage to go along with sexuality. Sure, there are reasons for the baggage. Sex can lead to all kinds of trouble. So just like the Jews had various rules about food - what could touch what, what you could eat and what you couldn't - because you could get sick if you ate the wrong thing, we've come up with rules and guidelines about sex. And we codify those rules through our religions.

Sex is also very powerful and wonderful and kinda nasty and a tool for controlling women - so we layer on more taboos and rules and punishments. Men's licentiousness typically was ignored or even condoned while a woman could be subjected to the worst kinds of punishment for sex outside of what was permitted by her society. See a fedw of the wives of Henry VIII vs. his known bastards for and example of what I mean.

I prefer to have a scientific basis for my attitudes towards eating the flesh of cloven beasts, for example, and towards sex. Sex is a natural biological process. It is a natural part of being an adult human being. Sex within marriage, with true love, certainly may be ideal and can be a spiritual experience. Sex between two consenting adults who choose to freely embrace each other, whether in love or not, can also be very pleasant and satisfying. I hope to raise my children to wear their seatbelts, get the oil in their car changed regularly, balance their checkbook, and use birth control and condoms when having sex. Unlike my Catholic upbringing, I hope to never convey to them that sex is bad, that their bodies are in any way impure, that masturbation is their right and privlege, that virginity or marriage are the only options for "good" girls. I hope that they have sex with a healthy number of partners while they are young adults so that they can try on and learn about different kinds of relationships and love, and what best suits them, before they take a spouse. If they ever take a spouse. Which I am trying not to convey an opinion about to them, either, but sometimes I hope they never do get married at all.

We are very lucky to live in an age when we can make smart choices that are best for us instead of having to live in terror of illegitimacy, disease, ostracization and punishment.

I don't think being a 25 year old virgin is healthy. I certainly hope my daughters are not so socially retarded that they are 25 years old and still a virgin. I also hope they aren't having sex at say, 15 or 16. Having lost my virginity at 19 to the man I married - and had to divorce because he's a lying, cheating SOB - I think I waited too long and limited my experience too much.

I think divorce is rising because people are no longer forced to remain in bad marriages. I think that if I hadn't had a job and an education I would have been forced to remain with my cheating husband - because I would have had no other option for supporting myself and my children. And I can't believe that anyone would suggest that staying in a bad or abusive marriage is better for ANYBODY, including the children.

I should have been having lots of safe sex when I was young, thin, attractive, and learning about men. I honestly wish I had done so instead of protecting my cherished chastity. What a waste.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The way I see it is, humans have created a lot of baggage to go along with sexuality. Sure, there are reasons for the baggage. Sex can lead to all kinds of trouble. So just like the Jews had various rules about food - what could touch what, what you could eat and what you couldn't - because you could get sick if you ate the wrong thing, we've come up with rules and guidelines about sex. And we codify those rules through our religions.

Sex is also very powerful and wonderful and kinda nasty and a tool for controlling women - so we layer on more taboos and rules and punishments. Men's licentiousness typically was ignored or even condoned while a woman could be subjected to the worst kinds of punishment for sex outside of what was permitted by her society. See a fedw of the wives of Henry VIII vs. his known bastards for and example of what I mean.

I prefer to have a scientific basis for my attitudes towards eating the flesh of cloven beasts, for example, and towards sex. Sex is a natural biological process. It is a natural part of being an adult human being. Sex within marriage, with true love, certainly may be ideal and can be a spiritual experience. Sex between two consenting adults who choose to freely embrace each other, whether in love or not, can also be very pleasant and satisfying. I hope to raise my children to wear their seatbelts, get the oil in their car changed regularly, balance their checkbook, and use birth control and condoms when having sex. Unlike my Catholic upbringing, I hope to never convey to them that sex is bad, that their bodies are in any way impure, that masturbation is their right and privlege, that virginity or marriage are the only options for "good" girls. I hope that they have sex with a healthy number of partners while they are young adults so that they can try on and learn about different kinds of relationships and love, and what best suits them, before they take a spouse. If they ever take a spouse. Which I am trying not to convey an opinion about to them, either, but sometimes I hope they never do get married at all.

We are very lucky to live in an age when we can make smart choices that are best for us instead of having to live in terror of illegitimacy, disease, ostracization and punishment.

I don't think being a 25 year old virgin is healthy. I certainly hope my daughters are not so socially retarded that they are 25 years old and still a virgin. I also hope they aren't having sex at say, 15 or 16. Having lost my virginity at 19 to the man I married - and had to divorce because he's a lying, cheating SOB - I think I waited too long and limited my experience too much.

I think divorce is rising because people are no longer forced to remain in bad marriages. I think that if I hadn't had a job and an education I would have been forced to remain with my cheating husband - because I would have had no other option for supporting myself and my children. And I can't believe that anyone would suggest that staying in a bad or abusive marriage is better for ANYBODY, including the children.

I should have been having lots of safe sex when I was young, thin, attractive, and learning about men. I honestly wish I had done so instead of protecting my cherished chastity. What a waste.

Do you know Catholic teaching about sex? Have you ever read Theology of the Body, or the Catechism? Where do these false ideas about Catholic teaching come from?

[Anonymous]

And the truth is, the Creator of sex built in fabulous pleasure, powerful bonds, incredible fun and joy, and the ability to participate in creation through mutual love. But in order to fully appreciate all this, we also needed the freedom to choose all that is good, or a lesser good, or the opposite of good.

That's nice that you believe that. But not everybody agrees with you.

But if what I am saying is true, it doesn't matter if people agree with me or not. It's still true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Considering your DH fathered a child at 19 (at the oldest), I'd suggest getting birth control into your kids' hands as soon as possible. Even if it "encourages" him or her to have sex, that's better than being a 34 you Grandpa, isn't it?

(I am assuming here that your 32 yo DH is the father of your teenager.)

OP here, no, we are not there yet, just about to have our first and discussing random parenting styles. I know we have a long way to go still but it's nice to know what we would do should the time come.

He thinks offering choices conveys your ambivalence about pre-mature sex. And there is nothing that sends kids spinning out of control more than a parent's ambivalence. He is a high school teacher so I'm getting the "trust me, I know" statement to back up his opinion.

I see his point but making sure your kids (boys and girls) have access to birth control isn't necessarily an act of ambivalence. It's an assertive act in my book. I made sure my kid had access to birth control when the time came and she keeps us fairly well-informed about what she is doing. Her doc likes it that parents are engaged with the kids on this.

I'm not ambivalent about her having sex. I don't want her to have one-night stands with douchebags and if she wants to have sex as a teen I want her to have it with a decent guy/girl who treats her right. Dh and I have made our feelings clear about that.

Here's the thing - your kid can go experiment on his/her own and try to find birth control of some sort on his/her own without you knowing about it or you can choose to be a listening board and know something of what is going on. Which would you rather be?

You're right about this, OP. Good thing you all are talking about this early on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The logic is clear, even to a teenage mind. If you say, "Don't do this but...," you are saying you do not have faith in them. That they are not strong enough, smart enough, noble enough to do what is right even when it is tough. That is a defeatist message.

But it is not enough to say "no, because there is pregnancy and disease and heartache and depression and date rape and [insert fear-mongering]." You need to start with the beautiful meaning of sex, and explain how it is powerful and awesome and gorgeous when experienced as it should be--in a loving, respectful, committed marriage.

Because restricting sex is not a random rule, like driving on the right side of the road. Sex has inherent boundaries, and when those boundaries are violated, its meaning is lost, and people get hurt, get sick, bring children into bad circumstances.

My children will learn everything in time...beginning with the real meaning of sex, then the real consequences of sex outside of its proper place, then the fact that there are (and have always been) efforts at mitigating bad choices about sex, but that these efforts are never 100%. I will always express faith in their character, and promise to love them through any mistakes along the way, but I would never, ever undermine the meaning of my words by saying "Don't, but if you do..."

Personally I don't think people should wait until they're married to have sex. I don't think it's good for a marriage. But I don't have a problem if that's what people want to do. That's their own business but all in all I don't think it's a good strategy.

[TheManWithAUsername]

Anonymous wrote:

And the truth is, the Creator of sex built in fabulous pleasure, powerful bonds, incredible fun and joy, and the ability to participate in creation through mutual love. But in order to fully appreciate all this, we also needed the freedom to choose all that is good, or a lesser good, or the opposite of good.

That's nice that you believe that. But not everybody agrees with you.

But if what I am saying is true, it doesn't matter if people agree with me or not. It's still true.

If it doesn't matter, why are you stating it on a message board?