Forum Index
»
Religion
s/o: if you're catholic, how do you deal with sticking by the church?
![[Post New]](/jforum/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif){kind=icon}
Anonymous
ITA. This "bigot" poster has single-handedly lowered my opinion of Catholics in recent weeks. |
Anonymous
You're clearly not a careful reader...s/he really doesn't care about your opinion of him/her or the church. But, by all means, continue your bashing. |
Anonymous
Oh, she cares. She cares enough to post on every single thread in which the word "Catholic" is uttered. If she didn't care, she wouldn't keep a vigil that would wear a Carmelite out. |
Anonymous
|
I stay because it works in my own day-to-day life. I find comfort in the faith I have, especially when confronting loss or illness. I enjoy Mass and the hymns and the prayers. My parish is a collection of good people who have stepped up time and time again to help others in true Christian fashion. I learn a great deal from the lives of the saints about what values and mercy should be about.
In general, the higher ups in the church have little to do with me. But I do really trust and admire most of the parish priests that I've known. I have gotten to know them individually and they are ordinary men in some ways, extraordinary in others. Fallible men yes, but also men of interesting character. It's especially interesting to hear from the younger guys about their experiences. It breaks my heart that the actions of some priests have made people so distrustful of all of them. So basically I stay because I believe. |
Anonymous
|
I stayed for a long long time.
The reason is that I owe such a debt to the Church. The Catholic Church gave me a great deal of my values and my moral framework. On top of that, the support they gave to my family during my parents' illness and after their passing is something that I can never forget. In terms of moral teaching, I think the Catholic Church understands and espouses the social gospel of Jesus in a way that other religions don't. Most Christian faiths pay some attention to the poor, but Jesus was more of a radical than that. The Catholic Church says things like "we should be equally skeptical of capitalism and socialism", or "it is the duty of all catholics to pay employees a living wage". The Catholic Church understands the dignity of poor people, really teaches social justice, whereas frankly I think most other Christian faiths pity the poor and support the poor but do not teach respect for the poor. It was nuns who first encouraged us to give our 15 cents of milk money to the collection bowl for the poor. The first person I knew who went to work with the poor in Central America was a priest. The first person who took me to a peace rally was a priest. The first person who made me think about capital punishment was a brother. The first person who gave me books critical of Catholicism was a nun. Actually that last part is quite important, because there is this paradox with Catholics and scholarship. Outsiders see only the rigid rules of the Church, but it has a long history of self-criticism in academic settings. My Jesuit school quite openly discussed the shortcomings of the Church in religion class, and we did comparative religion as well. Every once in a while some priest or nun crosses a line and gets their hand slapped, but for the most part it goes on unabated. It was also my school who gave me the opportunity for a life-changing experience working in Haiti, and a priest from my parish paid for my plane ticket. The first gay person I ever knew was a priest. I know, that's not the lesson the Church is teaching, but this is another thing about being a part of a big, hierarchical religion. There are a billion Catholics, and the Church can't contain all of the contradictions within its own body. Right now American Catholics view social issues like contraception, abortion, and gay marriage nearly the same as the country at large. We sit in the pews and listen to the priests, but most of us don't see completely eye to eye with the Church. We accept that they aren't going to change doctrine anytime soon but we still hang on. It's not that hard because the Church is full of like-minded people. The Catholic Church has incorporated so much contradiction over the years that even though all of it is against Church law, it just happens. Take Haiti, for example. 90-95% of Haiti is Catholic. Yet almost everyone believes in Vodou. Over the years they have matched the various loa with saints and biblical figures to incorporate these two different theologies. Does the Church excommunicate them, or even upbraid them for it? No. It just keeps right on going. I am not saying these things to debate the rightness of the Church, but to explain how it made me feel. I was given a gift, and as you can see I was very proud of my Catholic heritage so I wrote the above part not to be argumentative but to reflect to you that pride. When my parents were sick and dying, our parish was a great comfort and support. I had to move back home when my mother was diagnosed with terminal cancer. I hadn't lived there in 15 years. So many people reached out to support my mother and to support me, people who I knew in grade school and hadn't spoken a word to since. I understand that most churches do this for their members. In that way the Catholic church is not unique. But the Catholic Church was the community that supported me when I was in need, and it is hard to forget that. So where did everything go wrong for me? Well over time, that priest who went to work with the poor fell in love and wanted to get married. That ended his service to the Chuch. That nun left her order. Another role model / teacher died of a brain tumor, having never had the chance to fulfill her true calling - to be a priest- because she is a woman. And eventually I fell in love with a woman, and I had no right to ask her to live with the contradictions that are easily tolerated by a lifelong Catholic. She objects to too many things within the Church, and who can blame her? After all, most of us do. So at that point I had to make a change. And it really sucks. I have found more tolerant churches but never the level of commitment to the values that are important to me. We do collections for the poor, but most of our money goes to taking care of ourselves, our church, and its activities. And on so many issues of morality, they are so accepting of divergent views that no one ever really debates them. It is as though everyone is entitled to their opinion, so why offend. But then no one challenges each other. The heated debates I was used to having are replaced by polite acceptance. But I have a church where my wife is welcome, my gay BIL is welcome, a woman can officiate our wedding, and she's free to marry and have kids. I suppose I will always consider myself Catholic in some way, but forever from the outside. |
Anonymous
| 00:35 === GREAT post. I feel for you and I feel a lot of the same things. |
Anonymous
|
the church is not there for you if you have a suicide or a divorce in a family. Also you are not allowed to get married in a church if you are pregnant.
My good friend, the youngest of 4 children, got a letter in the mail from a catholic priest to say that her parents marriage has been anulled. i.e. according to the eyes of the priest and the church she is now a bastard |
Anonymous
Absolutely not true. Our church has support groups for people who have been through or are going through divorce. Our priest recently discussed suicide during the homily. I heard nothing but compassion for both the victim and the family. Your friend is not considered a "bastard" by the church. |
Anonymous
Most churches provide support during divorce. As for pregnant girls, I only have to look at the catholic church down the block to see that this is not true: http://www.borromeohousing.org/ There are a lot of things the Church is bad about, and I am sure there are a few bad parishes, but the above post is not true. |
Anonymous
| If anyone wants to know actual Church teaching, just look at the Catechism. It is all right there in black and white. |
Anonymous
| What I'm finding fascinating is that the OP asked a question of practicing or lapsed Catholics, and a number have given very thoughtful and heartfelt answers. Yet that doesn't stop many from continuing the same attacks over and over again, despite complete clarity from the Catholics that they keep their faith and their views of the humans running the church to be separate and distinct. |
Anonymous
|
16:35 - you are full of sh*t. I have had pregnant family members and friends get married in the Catholic Church, no problem. You have no idea what you are talking about.
The Catholic Church has done many positive things to help many down and out people. Because they don't do what you want when your spoiled as* wants it to does not make it wrong. And if they they did not require inconvenient (!) annulments in some cases, it would be hypocritical. Maybe you just need a church of convenience, not Catholicism. I don't step on your (anti) religion, yet so many find it acceptable to step on Catholicism because it is one of the oldest religions that has stood the test of time. Some people have a real problem with that. News flash: Holy wars are excuses for a war that would have happened anyway. Dumbas*es. |
Anonymous
This is absolutely not true. This means they found that a sacramental marriage had not taken place as all had assumed -- because of some kind of defect (e.g., addiction, deceit, I think). Her parents were still legally married. It means her parents are free to marry again in the Church. I've stuck by the Church because I found a great community (parish) active in issues of social justice and the environment, welcoming to gays and young adults, and a place where weekly homilies were absolutely inspiring. A place where I met most of my friends in a new city. |
Anonymous
| 19:35 -- aren't you QUITE the representative for the Catholic church! Lovely. |
Anonymous
|
OP here - thanks all for the really thoughtful responses. it has been helpful to read from people that have their eyes wide open to what is and has happened with the church, and still see their overall doctrine as good and important.
i think i might be a lost cause, but this has been a useful exercise in understanding my deeply religious but deeply conflicted mother a little better. i've never understood why she stuck with the church when she so openly disagreed with so many of the teachings. she took birth control (once she was married), had a sister that had an abortion as a teenager, another that divorced an abusive man and was refused communion (as well as the right to have her second wedding in the church), and stood by many gay friends. i fight with her a lot about why she doesn't just leave, and she hasn't been as articulate about her decision as many of these posters. thank you all for your help. and to the woman who throws the word bigot around - perhaps this thread shows up frequently because so many people are struggling with this issue, and a thoughtful response from you like many of the other PP's have done would be a better use of your faith than defensiveness. |