s/o: if you're catholic, how do you deal with sticking by the church?

[Anonymous]

I was raised by a very devout Catholic mother, went to Catholic schools. I went to a very liberal all girls Catholic school, where we were taught to respect all beliefs. Then we moved and I went to a co-ed conservative school that taught us that everyone else was going to hell. Our priest got caught in the act with one of the juniors in high school. I spent my young adult years trying to figure out my faith and my religion. When I decided to give the Catholic church a try again after years of trying other denominations, I walked in and the entire theme for the day was anti-abortion. I am personally anti-abortion but won't impose my belief on anyone else, and I don't go to church to get an anti-abortion message. I go to church to worship God. That's the last time I went to a Catholic service.
Personally, my biggest issue with the Catholic church is denying priests the ability to be married (hello, they were married in the early days of the Church), and not allowing females into the priesthood. The abuse and associated coverup is icing on the cake. The Catholic church is by no means alone when it comes to this. Anyway, I found my way to the Anglican/Episcopal church. The rites are almost exactly the same. I am drawn by the liturgy. It is what I am comfortable with. Lutheran is also very similiar in liturgy, and if we move I am open to either an Episcopal or a Lutheran congregation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:i was raised catholic and come from a deeply religious family. but seriously - the catholic church systematically allowed priests to touch little children while simultaneously holding believers accountable to rules that aren't even in the bible. they are literally allowing priests to have sex with children while telling married women they can't use birth control. the hypocrisy of it is blinding.

and as a side note that is not nearly as horrible but still annoying - how come priests preach poverty and the pope wears prada??

so if you're still catholic, how do you deal with this? i miss my religion but i am disgusted and i can't bring myself to return.

I think you need to have a little bit of understanding as to what actually occurred and how the church is fixing the situation.

Years ago when priests joined the Seminary they went at young ages. Some joined earlier in their lives than others did. They were sheltered in the seminary and this emotionally stunted them. They then went on to work in Parishes and were supposed to lead a congregation when they themselves were emotionally immature. If you look at most of the victims they are mostly male. They were mostly not prepubescent so they (the priests) are not technically pedophiles (not that this makes what they did less wrong). Most of the victims were closer to the age of the priest when he entered the seminary although there were some true pedophiles in the priesthood as well.

When priests were moved from church to church it was thought that removing the temptation would cure the priest. This was a common thought in psychiatric at the time as well. No one truly understood that removing the priest wouldn't stop the problem.

When the Church really understood what was going on and that there was no cure they started removing priests that they knew were sex offenders. Later, when there was enough evidence against a particular priest the police were involved. The Church is turning all suspected offenders over to the police at this point. There is a zero tolerance policy for such things.

The Church has also taken into account the emotional stunting of their priests and are forcing them to take a year off in the real world before being Ordained. This, in my opinion, a great decision. A potential priest can go and really experience the world as an adult and make the adult decision to finalize their choice.

You should also keep in mind that when the Church had the first majorly publicized lawsuit the Church settled and gave the victim millions of dollars. It wasn't long before the lawsuits started rolling in and the Church just kept handing out millions upon millions of dollars. The Church was just handing the money out and people just started lining up. Not every claim but it really didn't matter, the Church was tarnished, and the general hatred grew amongst the public in general.

Really, take a look at the OP and many of the other posters on this board. They have no tolerance for anyone that is Catholic.

Why am I staying with the Church? Well, I didn't for a long time. I recently starting going back because I believe in most of their teachings and because I wanted to give my children a religious foundation. They can later choose what they want for themselves, as I did.

It's interesting though, after years of people leaving church, the population is on the rise. Many Episcopalians are converting. One of my priests used to be an Episcopal priest and converted a few years back. He has a wife and kids. As a matter of fact, there is an entire church in Bladensburg that is converting.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/07/01/episcopal-church-in-maryland-converts-to-catholicism/

I guess, OP, that you don't see the prejudice in your own words and accusations. You also don't seem to know as much as you think you do about the very point you are arguing. You are spreading some of the misconceptions that you believed were true and factual.

My entire life (even when I left the Church) I have been surrounded by priests and nuns. I have never known one that has harmed a child or would harm a child. I have only known caring, loving, men and women, who were truly trying to do God's work. None of them lived flashy lives or wore Prada.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i was raised catholic and come from a deeply religious family. but seriously - the catholic church systematically allowed priests to touch little children while simultaneously holding believers accountable to rules that aren't even in the bible. they are literally allowing priests to have sex with children while telling married women they can't use birth control. the hypocrisy of it is blinding.

and as a side note that is not nearly as horrible but still annoying - how come priests preach poverty and the pope wears prada??

so if you're still catholic, how do you deal with this? i miss my religion but i am disgusted and i can't bring myself to return.

I think you need to have a little bit of understanding as to what actually occurred and how the church is fixing the situation.

Years ago when priests joined the Seminary they went at young ages. Some joined earlier in their lives than others did. They were sheltered in the seminary and this emotionally stunted them. They then went on to work in Parishes and were supposed to lead a congregation when they themselves were emotionally immature. If you look at most of the victims they are mostly male. They were mostly not prepubescent so they (the priests) are not technically pedophiles (not that this makes what they did less wrong). Most of the victims were closer to the age of the priest when he entered the seminary although there were some true pedophiles in the priesthood as well.

When priests were moved from church to church it was thought that removing the temptation would cure the priest. This was a common thought in psychiatric at the time as well. No one truly understood that removing the priest wouldn't stop the problem.

When the Church really understood what was going on and that there was no cure they started removing priests that they knew were sex offenders. Later, when there was enough evidence against a particular priest the police were involved. The Church is turning all suspected offenders over to the police at this point. There is a zero tolerance policy for such things.

The Church has also taken into account the emotional stunting of their priests and are forcing them to take a year off in the real world before being Ordained. This, in my opinion, a great decision. A potential priest can go and really experience the world as an adult and make the adult decision to finalize their choice.

You should also keep in mind that when the Church had the first majorly publicized lawsuit the Church settled and gave the victim millions of dollars. It wasn't long before the lawsuits started rolling in and the Church just kept handing out millions upon millions of dollars. The Church was just handing the money out and people just started lining up. Not every claim but it really didn't matter, the Church was tarnished, and the general hatred grew amongst the public in general.

Really, take a look at the OP and many of the other posters on this board. They have no tolerance for anyone that is Catholic.

Why am I staying with the Church? Well, I didn't for a long time. I recently starting going back because I believe in most of their teachings and because I wanted to give my children a religious foundation. They can later choose what they want for themselves, as I did.

It's interesting though, after years of people leaving church, the population is on the rise. Many Episcopalians are converting. One of my priests used to be an Episcopal priest and converted a few years back. He has a wife and kids. As a matter of fact, there is an entire church in Bladensburg that is converting.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/07/01/episcopal-church-in-maryland-converts-to-catholicism/

I guess, OP, that you don't see the prejudice in your own words and accusations. You also don't seem to know as much as you think you do about the very point you are arguing. You are spreading some of the misconceptions that you believed were true and factual.

My entire life (even when I left the Church) I have been surrounded by priests and nuns. I have never known one that has harmed a child or would harm a child. I have only known caring, loving, men and women, who were truly trying to do God's work. None of them lived flashy lives or wore Prada.

The Episcopalians that are converting to Catholicism are doing so because they disagree with the Episcopal church's acceptance of homosexuality and decision to ordain gay priests. Their anti-gay bigotry is more at home now in the Catholic Church than in the Episcopal Church. So the fact that the Catholic Church is gaining membership in this way doesn't exactly speak in its favor.

[Anonymous]

How about this. I am a Catholic Republican who doesn't think abortion should be illegal (I wouldn't choose it for me, but eh.), is for gay marriage, has my tubes tied, and still believes in many of the teachings of the church. The Catholic Church doesn't say it's a sin to be gay but that premarital sex is a sin. I had lots of that (premarital sex, not gay sex...not that there's anything wrong with it) and I never felt it was wrong. I think they Church is wrong on that point.

I think that the Church is right about a lot of things. Catholic Charities is a great organization and will help anyone in need. My mother used to work for them and they never turned anyone away because they didn't believe in God, they were gay, black, white, Asian... They were there to help the community and that's what they did.

It's not a perfect organization, but no organization that size could be perfect, and I learn a lot of good from it. Now, there are different types of priests and different parishes operate differently but the fundamentals are the same.

Oh, and one last thing. I didn't have to pay for the church I was married in because the bishop that I brought in to do the wedding was for gay rights. Yep, you read that correctly. A Catholic Bishop was for gay rights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My children attend Catholic school. I was raised Catholic and also attended Catholic schools.

I think it's best to raise a child with a religion - as it gives them some sort of guidance.

Having said that, however, I am very honest with my children. I share my views, which often go against the church. hypocritical? perhaps - But at least it opens their minds up to other views. They know about the gay lifestyle, as we have good friends who have been together for years.

And although they will be receiving the sacraments, if they decide to marry outside of the Catholic faith or to leave it completely, I definitely will not be upset.

Every religion has its flaws - perhaps Catholicism having the most! But it's a comfort zone for me.

I could have written this exact post---thanks for sharing your thoughts. It's good to know there are others out there who feel this way and are sharing the same ideas with their children while raising them in the Catholic faith.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i was raised catholic and come from a deeply religious family. but seriously - the catholic church systematically allowed priests to touch little children while simultaneously holding believers accountable to rules that aren't even in the bible. they are literally allowing priests to have sex with children while telling married women they can't use birth control. the hypocrisy of it is blinding.

and as a side note that is not nearly as horrible but still annoying - how come priests preach poverty and the pope wears prada??

so if you're still catholic, how do you deal with this? i miss my religion but i am disgusted and i can't bring myself to return.

I think you need to have a little bit of understanding as to what actually occurred and how the church is fixing the situation.

Years ago when priests joined the Seminary they went at young ages. Some joined earlier in their lives than others did. They were sheltered in the seminary and this emotionally stunted them. They then went on to work in Parishes and were supposed to lead a congregation when they themselves were emotionally immature. If you look at most of the victims they are mostly male. They were mostly not prepubescent so they (the priests) are not technically pedophiles (not that this makes what they did less wrong). Most of the victims were closer to the age of the priest when he entered the seminary although there were some true pedophiles in the priesthood as well.

When priests were moved from church to church it was thought that removing the temptation would cure the priest. This was a common thought in psychiatric at the time as well. No one truly understood that removing the priest wouldn't stop the problem.

When the Church really understood what was going on and that there was no cure they started removing priests that they knew were sex offenders. Later, when there was enough evidence against a particular priest the police were involved. The Church is turning all suspected offenders over to the police at this point. There is a zero tolerance policy for such things.

The Church has also taken into account the emotional stunting of their priests and are forcing them to take a year off in the real world before being Ordained. This, in my opinion, a great decision. A potential priest can go and really experience the world as an adult and make the adult decision to finalize their choice.

You should also keep in mind that when the Church had the first majorly publicized lawsuit the Church settled and gave the victim millions of dollars. It wasn't long before the lawsuits started rolling in and the Church just kept handing out millions upon millions of dollars. The Church was just handing the money out and people just started lining up. Not every claim but it really didn't matter, the Church was tarnished, and the general hatred grew amongst the public in general.

Really, take a look at the OP and many of the other posters on this board. They have no tolerance for anyone that is Catholic.

Why am I staying with the Church? Well, I didn't for a long time. I recently starting going back because I believe in most of their teachings and because I wanted to give my children a religious foundation. They can later choose what they want for themselves, as I did.

It's interesting though, after years of people leaving church, the population is on the rise. Many Episcopalians are converting. One of my priests used to be an Episcopal priest and converted a few years back. He has a wife and kids. As a matter of fact, there is an entire church in Bladensburg that is converting.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/07/01/episcopal-church-in-maryland-converts-to-catholicism/

I guess, OP, that you don't see the prejudice in your own words and accusations. You also don't seem to know as much as you think you do about the very point you are arguing. You are spreading some of the misconceptions that you believed were true and factual.

My entire life (even when I left the Church) I have been surrounded by priests and nuns. I have never known one that has harmed a child or would harm a child. I have only known caring, loving, men and women, who were truly trying to do God's work. None of them lived flashy lives or wore Prada.

sorry, i'm the OP and most of this is bullshit. and to say that i have no tolerance for catholics is just plain wrong. where do you even get that from my post? my family is catholic and i attend church with them often. my boss is catholic as are most of my coworkers and friends. i miss catholicism and have deep respect for catholics, but i am struggling with my faith. but your post is so completely wrong that i understand how you are able to stick with the church - by having bad information. you are partially right, yes. but it's not the whole story. lots and lots and lots of little children were molested by priests, and there are actual letters from bishops turning a blind eye to the problem and refusing to address it. and saying that assuming that removing the priest from a particular congregation was commonly accepted as the way to deal with pedophelia is like saying that smokers in the 70's didn't know it was bad for them. and i was not arguing any point (though I am now). i was dealing with my own questions of faith and asking for help. but i didn't attack anybody. the only one attacking here was you.

and yes, your priest didn't wear prada . . . but your pope does. so explain it to me.

and you are wrong - the american catholic church is dwindling, and it's because of this kind of problem. and your whole argument about money is bizarre - they threw money at the problem because they had to, because they did a horrible horrible thing. and people went to jail for that horrible horrible thing. the church is handling everything better now because they've been exposed and forced into it. and one year off to prevent pedophilia? they can and should do better than that. when i had a child i moved away from the church - not toward it - because i'm not taking my kid anywhere that i know has a problem with pedophiles. I just don't understand you . . . i've seen way too many adults weeping uncontrollably on TV while talking about how their priest molested them as an 8 year old. how is this church my spiritual leader?

[Anonymous]

Way back in the day, joining the priesthood was a haven for homosexuals who obviously had to hide from society.

It was also decided that priests should remain celibate and not marry to ensure that money/property stayed with the church and didn't end up going to the widow.

So is it based on hypocrisy? sure

However, aren't all religions based on power? Aren't wars fought over religion?

So pick your poison. I'd rather be a Catholic than a Seventh Day Adventist.

And maybe one day, when my kids are finally out of the house, I'll decide to not practice. For now, however, I find it difficult in this sick world to teach children values w/o anything concrete to guide them. Eve didn't come from Adam's rib, but there are some truths about human nature that the bible can teach us.

[Anonymous]

I cringe in horror at the thought of the crimes of the Catholic church, but the type of sexual abuse that they have condoned for so long isn't confined to Catholics. A couple of years ago NPR did a story on sexual abuse by rabbis within the Ultra-Orthodox communities in NY (there's a little bit of recent reporting on it again in light of the terrible murder of that young boy a few days ago). I remember driving when I heard the story and being so shocked that I had to pull over because I wasn't sure I could drive safely while listening. Later on, when I mentioned it in a discussion with a group of friends, one of them, who's Muslim, said that it happens in the Muslim community too.

My conclusion was that if someone decides to seek out the role/title of spirirtual leader of a flock of any persuasion, he is either a/an altruist, who could have done the same without the religious garb or b/a predator looking for easy prey. The actual proportions of a and b are undetermined.

[Anonymous]

I am another torn Catholic.

I grew up military, moved around A LOT, and one of the few constants in my life was the Church. No matter where in the world we were, Mass was always the same and I found comfort in that. I went through CCD, was confirmed, but stopped attending in college. My parents are still devout, active members of their parish, despite the fact that they are both quite liberal (my mom was an OB nurse in an office that performed abortions when I was growing up).

When DH and I got married (he's a baptized Catholic, but his parents figured that was enough), it was HARD to find a parish that would marry us. We were moving from Arlington to Fairfax -- but I'd been attending a church in Alexandria for years....NONE of the above parishes would marry us. Alexandria said we were never registered (but they had no problem taking our money), Fairfax said we didn't live there yet so we couldn't register there. Full disclosure, I had no connection to the church in Arlington and didn't really want to pursue that option.

We married at Georgetown's Dahlgren Chapel (thank God for grad school and for the Jesuits). Our priest was a family friend who was moved from his local parish to Pennsylvania for performing the baptism of the child of a former priest who had married after leaving the Church.

Where was the comforting, welcoming Church I remembered from my childhood?

We baptized our kids, but DH couldn't stand the uber-conservative priest at our local church, so we only attended sporadically, though we did have our oldest attend CCD to prep for First Communion, as I feel it's important to give our kids some sort of religious foundation. We then moved out of the area, to a different diocese altogether.

Our current priest is FABULOUS, even DH gladly attends Mass. I'm so glad that our child had First Communion in the type of environment I remember from my own childhood. Sadly, we're moving back to the Arlington Diocese and I'm hoping that the new priest I've heard is recently arrived at our old church might usher in some more of the spirit I feel where we are now -- where there is a same-sex couple whose child received First Communion with my child in May.

That was a long way of saying that I'm still looking for a place that will give my children what I had as a child. I still find comfort in the traditions and ceremonies of the Church. I naively hope that someday I'll be able to reconcile my personal opinions with the Church's teachings -- mainly by hoping that the Church's teachings change to better reflect my opinions. Stranger things have happened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i was raised catholic and come from a deeply religious family. but seriously - the catholic church systematically allowed priests to touch little children while simultaneously holding believers accountable to rules that aren't even in the bible. they are literally allowing priests to have sex with children while telling married women they can't use birth control. the hypocrisy of it is blinding.

and as a side note that is not nearly as horrible but still annoying - how come priests preach poverty and the pope wears prada??

so if you're still catholic, how do you deal with this? i miss my religion but i am disgusted and i can't bring myself to return.

I think you need to have a little bit of understanding as to what actually occurred and how the church is fixing the situation.

Years ago when priests joined the Seminary they went at young ages. Some joined earlier in their lives than others did. They were sheltered in the seminary and this emotionally stunted them. They then went on to work in Parishes and were supposed to lead a congregation when they themselves were emotionally immature. If you look at most of the victims they are mostly male. They were mostly not prepubescent so they (the priests) are not technically pedophiles (not that this makes what they did less wrong). Most of the victims were closer to the age of the priest when he entered the seminary although there were some true pedophiles in the priesthood as well.

When priests were moved from church to church it was thought that removing the temptation would cure the priest. This was a common thought in psychiatric at the time as well. No one truly understood that removing the priest wouldn't stop the problem.

When the Church really understood what was going on and that there was no cure they started removing priests that they knew were sex offenders. Later, when there was enough evidence against a particular priest the police were involved. The Church is turning all suspected offenders over to the police at this point. There is a zero tolerance policy for such things.

The Church has also taken into account the emotional stunting of their priests and are forcing them to take a year off in the real world before being Ordained. This, in my opinion, a great decision. A potential priest can go and really experience the world as an adult and make the adult decision to finalize their choice.

You should also keep in mind that when the Church had the first majorly publicized lawsuit the Church settled and gave the victim millions of dollars. It wasn't long before the lawsuits started rolling in and the Church just kept handing out millions upon millions of dollars. The Church was just handing the money out and people just started lining up. Not every claim but it really didn't matter, the Church was tarnished, and the general hatred grew amongst the public in general.

Really, take a look at the OP and many of the other posters on this board. They have no tolerance for anyone that is Catholic.

Why am I staying with the Church? Well, I didn't for a long time. I recently starting going back because I believe in most of their teachings and because I wanted to give my children a religious foundation. They can later choose what they want for themselves, as I did.

It's interesting though, after years of people leaving church, the population is on the rise. Many Episcopalians are converting. One of my priests used to be an Episcopal priest and converted a few years back. He has a wife and kids. As a matter of fact, there is an entire church in Bladensburg that is converting.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/07/01/episcopal-church-in-maryland-converts-to-catholicism/

I guess, OP, that you don't see the prejudice in your own words and accusations. You also don't seem to know as much as you think you do about the very point you are arguing. You are spreading some of the misconceptions that you believed were true and factual.

My entire life (even when I left the Church) I have been surrounded by priests and nuns. I have never known one that has harmed a child or would harm a child. I have only known caring, loving, men and women, who were truly trying to do God's work. None of them lived flashy lives or wore Prada.

You must have drunk so much of their Kool-Aid that you are simply awe-inspiringly drunk with stupidity. I have unfortunately known a few children (now adults) molested by priests. Just saying you don't know anyone doesn't make a documented, outrageous and uncontested problem within the church nonexistent, and your minimizing is so sickening. And one of the wealthiest people I knew in high school was my best friend's uncle who was, you got it, a priest. The man through his own birthday parties because no one else's were ever good enough or lavish enough to suit his taste. But I get it. You HAVE to believe the crap you spew, or else how in god's name would you ever step foot inside a catholic church? So whatever, I get your internal motivations, but don't go spewing as fact your naive opinions and little microcosm world as true for all.

[Anonymous]

**threw**

[Anonymous]

Quite frankly, OP, your original post did not sound much like you were trying to discern your faith. In fact, it (and your reply post) was pretty confrontational by asking how practing catholics "deal with sticking by the church." If you were serious about hearing from practicing catholics, your original post would not have been so overtly anti-catholic. You're rude, judgmental, and just interesting in advancing your anti-catholic bias. Clearly the church isn't for you; get on with your life.

[Anonymous]

I am Catholic, very conservative Catholic. I know there is a lot of anti-Catholicism out there and it is sort of the thing to do right now in light of the priest abuse scandal. The church didn't respond well to the scandal and it is something that pains me as a Catholic.

But at the end of the day it is my faith. It is what I believe in and what I teach my children to believe in. For me it is comforting and a way of life. If you don't feel that in your religion then it isn't right for you -- regardless of what that religion may be.

[Anonymous]

And one of the wealthiest people I knew in high school was my best friend's uncle who was, you got it, a priest.

You must not have grown up knowing many wealthy people if you expect us to believe a priest was one of "the wealthiest people [you] knew in high school." I'm so sick of the catholic-bashing that is condoned on these boards and in the media, pop culture, etc. I haven't seen one poster in this thread who self-identified as a practicing catholic deny the priest scandal was horrible: a terrible ordeal for those abused, the church itself, and the faithful. And even when an informed poster goes on to explain how the church is dealing with it now, the corrective actions it has taken to prevent it in the future, that's still not enough and labeled as "drinking the Kool-Aid" and "bullshit" (such thoughtful and eloquent comments, by the way). Others have explained there is a distinction between faith and the structure of the church, but that, too, is not good enough. Still others have pointed out that in the very bleak time that the priest scandal was going on (and since then) the church still was doing a lot of good in some areas - healthcare and eduction. Again, not good enough. What more do you want catholics to do?? Go spew on about your tolerance for everything else in the world except for catholics, and continue to bash catholics, our church, and our faith. You're not the first, move along.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Quite frankly, OP, your original post did not sound much like you were trying to discern your faith. In fact, it (and your reply post) was pretty confrontational by asking how practing catholics "deal with sticking by the church." If you were serious about hearing from practicing catholics, your original post would not have been so overtly anti-catholic. You're rude, judgmental, and just interesting in advancing your anti-catholic bias. Clearly the church isn't for you; get on with your life.

I think this is where she is headed, but clearly she is struggling with the decision. I get where she is coming from. I've BTDT and I've been done with the Catholic church for many years now. But looking back I kept trying to stick with it off and on for years even when in retrospect it obviously was not right for me. The sex abuse problems within the priesthood sickened me and may have been the final straw, but I had so so many qualms even before that became public.

I have friends and relatives who are practicing Catholics, and I really do wonder the same things OP does. We don't talk about it though.