s/o: if you're catholic, how do you deal with sticking by the church?

[Anonymous]

I heard a cool story on NPR when they did coming out stories and a young Catholic woman talked about coming out to her priest. He quoted a passage from the bible and explained it meant that God doesn't make mistakes and that she need not fear living her life as her true self, the person God created. This is the kind of good priest who represents the best of the Catholic church.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I heard a cool story on NPR when they did coming out stories and a young Catholic woman talked about coming out to her priest. He quoted a passage from the bible and explained it meant that God doesn't make mistakes and that she need not fear living her life as her true self, the person God created. This is the kind of good priest who represents the best of the Catholic church.

he was probably gay.

[Anonymous]

So??? What if he is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I heard a cool story on NPR when they did coming out stories and a young Catholic woman talked about coming out to her priest. He quoted a passage from the bible and explained it meant that God doesn't make mistakes and that she need not fear living her life as her true self, the person God created. This is the kind of good priest who represents the best of the Catholic church.

Great that the priest responded that way -- but it sounds to me as if he was responding as a caring human being, and NOT quoting Church doctrine. I.e. he was a rought priest in this instance.

I believe church doctrine is that she is the way she is but must not act on it.

[Anonymous]

This is Catholic Catechism on Homosexuality. Wahtever that kind priest said to that woman, it wasn't the Catholic Church's teaching:

Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

[Anonymous]

This is a terrific example of somebody working within the church to make it better.

But DCUM posters won't give this priest any credit at all. No quarter given here. You all are a sorry bunch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a terrific example of somebody working within the church to make it better.

But DCUM posters won't give this priest any credit at all. No quarter given here. You all are a sorry bunch.

But, he's NOT working within the Church, to "make it better". He's telling a woman, privately, that in his opinion, she's fine; and screw Church doctrine.

Admirable for HIM, but not for the Church.

[Anonymous]

PP again. In other words, the priest mentioned is not representing what is "best about the catholic Church" as one poster stated.

He is representing precisely the opposite of the Catholic church.

GOOD FOR HIM! But I don't se why you are giving the church credit for this rogue priest's actions.

Tell me where in Church doctrine or tradition priests are encouraged to deviate from obedience to church teaching?

[Anonymous]

So any catholic who does what you consider good must be a "rogue"? Nice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a Catholic believe me I am not sitting here thinking: "Wow, what a great point, maybe I should be Episcopalian."

What in the hell are you people still yammering about?

We don't want you to be an Episcopalian. Be Catholic. Hell, I am a Catholic. But just because you are part of the flock, you don't have to act like sheep. If you know your history, you know the Church can change. Don't be like the apologist on this thread. She just parrots what all of us heard over and over.

If something is true, it needs no improvement.

If you cannot explain it, you don't understand it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So any catholic who does what you consider good must be a "rogue"? Nice.

Yes, pretty much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a Catholic believe me I am not sitting here thinking: "Wow, what a great point, maybe I should be Episcopalian."

What in the hell are you people still yammering about?

We don't want you to be an Episcopalian. Be Catholic. Hell, I am a Catholic. But just because you are part of the flock, you don't have to act like sheep. If you know your history, you know the Church can change. Don't be like the apologist on this thread. She just parrots what all of us heard over and over.

If something is true, it needs no improvement.

If you cannot explain it, you don't understand it.

I did explain it, and my explanation was considered "beautiful.". But PPs do not want to conform to Church teaching about contraception, no matter how coherent, persuasive, consistent, poetic, powerful, or true it is, and that is their choice to make. Obedience can be very hard sometimes, but even Christ was obedient to the Father's will for him, and Mary's fiat is our model as believers in her Son.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So any catholic who does what you consider good must be a "rogue"? Nice.

No, if they do something I consider to be "good" that just makes them "good" in my book.

But if they call themselves Catholic (or a Catholic priest!) and yet advise someone against the doctrine of the Catholic faith, yeah, I consider them to be "going rogue" or "mavericks".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was a great NY Times piece by Nicholas Kristoff about this. In short, he said you can find the very best of the Catholocism and the Church in the priests, nuns and Catholic lay people who sacrifice everything to teach, feed, and sustain the poor and disabled -- particularly those who do this in Africa and Latin America and literally risk their lives each day in dangerous, war-torn areas to do God's work. I am pro-choice, support gay marriage, lived in sin with my DH, etc. and yet I still consider myself Catholic having been raised by East Coast liberals and taught to gently question what I learned in Catholic school (K-12). I support the Jesuit/social justice/public service arm of Catholocism and have dedicated my career to advocating for people experiencing homelessness. I abhor what the Church did to cover up abuse, but I won't let "the Church" ruin Catholocism for me. My faith is too important to me.

And therein lies the crux of the matter. CAN you consider yourself Catholic, if you fundamentally disagree with many of the Catholic Church's "hot button" topics? (Gay marriage, abortion, contraception, female priests, premaital sex, married priests?) Isn't being Catholic, ultimately, about submitting yourself to the decisions of the Vatican?

If you can't, then there are almost no American Catholics.

98% of sexually active catholic women use birth control (Guttmacher Institute)
56% Support gay marriage PRRI 2011, I think 3/4 support either marriage or civil unions
67% Catholics support married priests (2010 CBS News) 63% (2005 CNN/USAToday/Gallup)
60% support the ordination of women (2010 CBS News)
40% find abortion morally acceptable (Gallup 2008/9),
67% find sex between unmarried man and woman morally acceptable (Gallup 2008/9)
63% support medical research using embryonic stem cells (Gallup 2008/9)
40% said the sexual abuse scandal caused them to doubt the Vatican's authority (2010 CBS News)

Either it is the largest Church in America, with 68 million American Catholics, and it is full of dissent, or there is a very small church of 1.5 million Catholics who accept Rome's position on all of the major issues, bigger than the 7th Day Adventists but smaller than the Jehovah's Witnesses.

The Church may not be a democracy, but it may not be much of a church at all if it does not tolerate other points of view.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a Catholic believe me I am not sitting here thinking: "Wow, what a great point, maybe I should be Episcopalian."

What in the hell are you people still yammering about?

We don't want you to be an Episcopalian. Be Catholic. Hell, I am a Catholic. But just because you are part of the flock, you don't have to act like sheep. If you know your history, you know the Church can change. Don't be like the apologist on this thread. She just parrots what all of us heard over and over.

If something is true, it needs no improvement.

If you cannot explain it, you don't understand it.

I did explain it, and my explanation was considered "beautiful.". But PPs do not want to conform to Church teaching about contraception, no matter how coherent, persuasive, consistent, poetic, powerful, or true it is, and that is their choice to make. Obedience can be very hard sometimes, but even Christ was obedient to the Father's will for him, and Mary's fiat is our model as believers in her Son.

You truly don't get it. All you did in that post was to repeat the church teaching. You did zero to explain how the church justifies that doctrine. And then you cite a poster who called your post "beautiful", conveniently ignoring the point that she does not believe that God even agrees with you. You truly are just a parrot.