s/o: if you're catholic, how do you deal with sticking by the church?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:i was raised catholic and come from a deeply religious family. but seriously - the catholic church systematically allowed priests to touch little children while simultaneously holding believers accountable to rules that aren't even in the bible. they are literally allowing priests to have sex with children while telling married women they can't use birth control. the hypocrisy of it is blinding.

and as a side note that is not nearly as horrible but still annoying - how come priests preach poverty and the pope wears prada??

so if you're still catholic, how do you deal with this? i miss my religion but i am disgusted and i can't bring myself to return.

It's funny I just read this...I am thinking of leaving the Catholic Church b/c I cannot reconcile a) the sex acts against kids and even more b) the flagrant cover up and the refusal of the church to address it in a real way.

I am at a loss, but as much as I love the Church I grew up with...I cannot give money or time to them. Let alone my faith. So sad.

[Anonymous]

I see a distinction here. What is the Catholic Church to the practicing and fallen-away Catholics here? Because it is supposed to be the bastion of God's own Truth, instituted by Christ and protected by the Holy Spirit.

If that is so, then the Church does not bend to the times, because it is eternal. It may be made up of fallen and sinful people, but it protects the Truth.

So if you say it is your faith, then you accept it as true. If you struggle with believing, you struggle, but then you either submit or you reject it. Since you are human, you will sin and doubt and disobey...but then you can either reconcile, or you can stay defiant. You have free will. But you need to own your decisions.

This thread is an opportunity. A chance to reexamine your faith. Have you ever actually read the Catechism? Have you ever actually read an encyclical? Or an apostolic letter? They are amazing. If you read them and study them and still think they are wrong, then be honest and say, "I do not believe. This is not my faith."

But before you walk away, ask yourself, is this just a hard truth? Like when Jesus explained the Eucharist, or his coming death, and his disciples walked away. And Jesus asked the ones who stayed if they were going to leave, too. And Peter said, "to whom would we go? You have the words of everlasting life."

What is worth dying for? A gathering if like- minded people? Or the truth that God loves us, forgives us, holds us close, understands our troubles and struggles, reconciled us to Him, and gave us natural law for our benefit, and not to be mean?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I see a distinction here. What is the Catholic Church to the practicing and fallen-away Catholics here? Because it is supposed to be the bastion of God's own Truth, instituted by Christ and protected by the Holy Spirit.

If that is so, then the Church does not bend to the times, because it is eternal. It may be made up of fallen and sinful people, but it protects the Truth.

So if you say it is your faith, then you accept it as true. If you struggle with believing, you struggle, but then you either submit or you reject it. Since you are human, you will sin and doubt and disobey...but then you can either reconcile, or you can stay defiant. You have free will. But you need to own your decisions.

This thread is an opportunity. A chance to reexamine your faith. Have you ever actually read the Catechism? Have you ever actually read an encyclical? Or an apostolic letter? They are amazing. If you read them and study them and still think they are wrong, then be honest and say, "I do not believe. This is not my faith."

But before you walk away, ask yourself, is this just a hard truth? Like when Jesus explained the Eucharist, or his coming death, and his disciples walked away. And Jesus asked the ones who stayed if they were going to leave, too. And Peter said, "to whom would we go? You have the words of everlasting life."

What is worth dying for? A gathering if like- minded people? Or the truth that God loves us, forgives us, holds us close, understands our troubles and struggles, reconciled us to Him, and gave us natural law for our benefit, and not to be mean?

I have read my catechism, both old and new. I have read both the us bishops and Vatican letters, the encyclicals, you name it. There are good things in there. But leaving the church is not the same as leaving Jesus. And a good encyclical does not make up for church abuses.

Jesus rejected the holy men of his day for their hypocrisy. And although he gave Peter the keys to the kingdom, I doubt he had in mind what so many popes have done in the name of God.

[Anonymous]

Who's been to the Vatican?

It's like walking into a palace. No religion, in my opinion, should be represented in that manner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who's been to the Vatican?

It's like walking into a palace. No religion, in my opinion, should be represented in that manner.

Pretty much ALL religions have been represented in that manner.

Westminster Abbey, gold covered Buddhas and the Ankgor Temples, the Blue Mosque, Mormon temples, the Crystal Cathedral, the Sikh's Golden Temple, the Pyramids (Egypt and Americas), the Greeks, pretty much everybody had made expensive and lavish tributes to God.

[Anonymous]

How do Catholic women deal with being second class citizens in the church?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How do Catholic women deal with being second class citizens in the church?

By not seeing myself as a second class citizen. So I can't be a priest. big deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see a distinction here. What is the Catholic Church to the practicing and fallen-away Catholics here? Because it is supposed to be the bastion of God's own Truth, instituted by Christ and protected by the Holy Spirit.

If that is so, then the Church does not bend to the times, because it is eternal. It may be made up of fallen and sinful people, but it protects the Truth.

So if you say it is your faith, then you accept it as true. If you struggle with believing, you struggle, but then you either submit or you reject it. Since you are human, you will sin and doubt and disobey...but then you can either reconcile, or you can stay defiant. You have free will. But you need to own your decisions.

This thread is an opportunity. A chance to reexamine your faith. Have you ever actually read the Catechism? Have you ever actually read an encyclical? Or an apostolic letter? They are amazing. If you read them and study them and still think they are wrong, then be honest and say, "I do not believe. This is not my faith."

But before you walk away, ask yourself, is this just a hard truth? Like when Jesus explained the Eucharist, or his coming death, and his disciples walked away. And Jesus asked the ones who stayed if they were going to leave, too. And Peter said, "to whom would we go? You have the words of everlasting life."

What is worth dying for? A gathering if like- minded people? Or the truth that God loves us, forgives us, holds us close, understands our troubles and struggles, reconciled us to Him, and gave us natural law for our benefit, and not to be mean?

I have read my catechism, both old and new. I have read both the us bishops and Vatican letters, the encyclicals, you name it. There are good things in there. But leaving the church is not the same as leaving Jesus. And a good encyclical does not make up for church abuses.

Jesus rejected the holy men of his day for their hypocrisy. And although he gave Peter the keys to the kingdom, I doubt he had in mind what so many popes have done in the name of God.

Absolutely, there have been evil popes, evil priests, and evil Catholics from all walks of life. But look at the teachings of the Church, not the people. It is miraculous that the Truths of the faith have survived the horrible actions of the believers, isn't it? THAT is what Jesus promised, that the gates of hell would not prevail against his Church.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do Catholic women deal with being second class citizens in the church?

By not seeing myself as a second class citizen. So I can't be a priest. big deal.

So you're considered less than a man because you can't be a priest. You also are prized for your sexual virtue above all other traits - ie, Virgin Mary worship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do Catholic women deal with being second class citizens in the church?

By not seeing myself as a second class citizen. So I can't be a priest. big deal.

So you're considered less than a man because you can't be a priest. You also are prized for your sexual virtue above all other traits - ie, Virgin Mary worship.

Different does not equate to less than. And, we don't "worship" the Virgin Mary. She is venerated for her ability to give birth to the Son of God. And that amazing gift and power of motherhood that we all possess I think moves most of us as women, Catholic or not. "Prized for sexual virtue" is not the case. Give it a rest.

[Anonymous]

I cannot imagine Jesus would have stood by this institution of the Church anymore. The same place who moved men around rather than prosecute them for unspeakable crimes against children. The same place that uses money of church-goers to pay off court cases and continue protecting these monsters. The same Church that refuses to acknowledge the full scale of hurt they have caused. Jesus would have seen this ego, fear, and hurt and left them. There are good men and women in the church, doing good works everyday, but I cannot reconcile their blatant disregard for children. It makes me sick.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do Catholic women deal with being second class citizens in the church?

By not seeing myself as a second class citizen. So I can't be a priest. big deal.

So you're considered less than a man because you can't be a priest. You also are prized for your sexual virtue above all other traits - ie, Virgin Mary worship.

Different does not equate to less than. And, we don't "worship" the Virgin Mary. She is venerated for her ability to give birth to the Son of God. And that amazing gift and power of motherhood that we all possess I think moves most of us as women, Catholic or not. "Prized for sexual virtue" is not the case. Give it a rest.

Let me ask an honest question: does modern day Catholicism teach that you need to access Jesus only through a priest? Can you confess directly to God/Jesus/the Holy Spirit?

Do you understand why some women feel more comfortable in a Protestant denomination where they can assume leadership roles?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let me ask an honest question: does modern day Catholicism teach that you need to access Jesus only through a priest? Can you confess directly to God/Jesus/the Holy Spirit?

Do you understand why some women feel more comfortable in a Protestant denomination where they can assume leadership roles?

You are correct, only a priest can hear confessions.

Can I understand why some women not believe in the tenets of Catholicism? Of course. Can I see that some women, regardless of their faith in Catholic doctrine, choose to practice another religion because they want the option of serving as priests themselves? Yes.

That wasn't the original question - it was how do Catholic women do it. My answer is I don't see myself as 'less than' anyone, and have never been made to feel that way. Others may feel differently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let me ask an honest question: does modern day Catholicism teach that you need to access Jesus only through a priest? Can you confess directly to God/Jesus/the Holy Spirit?

Do you understand why some women feel more comfortable in a Protestant denomination where they can assume leadership roles?

You are correct, only a priest can hear confessions.

Can I understand why some women not believe in the tenets of Catholicism? Of course. Can I see that some women, regardless of their faith in Catholic doctrine, choose to practice another religion because they want the option of serving as priests themselves? Yes.

That wasn't the original question - it was how do Catholic women do it. My answer is I don't see myself as 'less than' anyone, and have never been made to feel that way. Others may feel differently.

Thank you. I appreciate the information and your sincere responses.

[Anonymous]

The problem is that the tenets of Catholicism do not relegate women to a lesser role.
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus," (Gal. 3:28).

Secondly, as far as "in the old days, pedophilia was viewed differently and things have changed" - my priest was caught having sex with a 15 year old male in 1992. Not the 1970s. Priests molesting boys had been known for years, and had been in the news for years, and settlements for years. This priest, in particular, was moved from an all boys high school to a co-ed high school in 1989 because there were accusations at his previous school. 1989. Not 1970.

That was my high school. My church - 2 priests. One had multiple affairs, and impregnated a woman in 1994. She left her husband and 3 kids to start a new life with him. Although he left the priesthood, he still is part of the church as a spiritual direct. Wow. The other priest is homosexual. His boyfriend goes every with him, and bought the house next to the priests home. He is employeed by the church as some sort of assistant. The diocese turns a blind eye to this.

I do not think the Catholic church is alone in its abuses. But I cannot stand by a church who covers up abuses (and still does), the relegates women a lesser role, and that refuses to allow priests to marry. Frankly, I'd rather have an openly gay pastor in a committed relationship than the closeted pedophiles and adulturers in the Catholic church.