s/o: if you're catholic, how do you deal with sticking by the church?

[Anonymous]

Is that how other employers treated child molesters? Schools? Daycares? Seems to me that they didn't shuffle molesters around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is that how other employers treated child molesters? Schools? Daycares? Seems to me that they didn't shuffle molesters around.

Well, are you talking about today or are you talking about what has happened over the past 30-60 years? I think decades ago, people really buried their head in the sand about molesters and pedophiles. You could find them in schools, daycares, coaches, troop leaders, religious leaders, etc.; and most of the time it was all hush-hush and people would just sort of pretend it didn't happen or blame the child. Luckily, we as a society have wised up and cracked down, and we now have laws in place and tend to hunt down the sickos. The scandal in the Catholic church is not much different from abuse that has take place in other sectors of society, including with religious leaders of other faith denominations. In fact, if you can get past the enormous media hype about the Catholic church situation, you will find that statistically, there were about the same or fewer number of incidents of sexual abuse amongst priests as there were among other groups of adults in leadership positions in our society. It is completely sickening, but I personally don't see it as a reason to reject Catholicism anymore than I would reject any other religion or institution where an extremely small percentage of the leadership engaged in something terrible. ANY individual human being is capable of great evil, regardless of their vocation or job.

[Anonymous]

I don't think that a public school system 30-60 years ago swept child molesters under the carpet. Same with daycare.

If troop leaders and religious leaders did, it seems to me that it wasn't just "the times" but the people running those organizations.

Your point about the incidence of abuse is true and often misunderstood. But that's no excuse for not taking action. The fact is that the Church did not fire/report priests because they treat priests more as family and not as employees. And like families who sweep abuse under the covers, it is wrong. But the Church IS an employer, whether they think of it that way or not. They had the power and the obligation to do something.

[Anonymous]

It is really great to see this thread and how others are dealing with it. We have been attending Catholic school and it has further revealed to us how the church is not what it appears to be. We saw a lot of "extreme" individuals who revel in the power and guilt that they have over others and these people have a lot of blind followers to implement their edicts. I actually saw very little "church" although these individuals used references to the church to leverage their control. My children on several occasions reported actions of administrators and teachers that were in complete conflict with what they had been teaching. This is very hard to explain when it happens frequently enough. Had we not attended Catholic school, we might just be happily attending Sunday Mass here and there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was raised by a very devout Catholic mother, went to Catholic schools. I went to a very liberal all girls Catholic school, where we were taught to respect all beliefs. Then we moved and I went to a co-ed conservative school that taught us that everyone else was going to hell. Our priest got caught in the act with one of the juniors in high school. I spent my young adult years trying to figure out my faith and my religion. When I decided to give the Catholic church a try again after years of trying other denominations, I walked in and the entire theme for the day was anti-abortion. I am personally anti-abortion but won't impose my belief on anyone else, and I don't go to church to get an anti-abortion message. I go to church to worship God. That's the last time I went to a Catholic service.
Personally, my biggest issue with the Catholic church is denying priests the ability to be married (hello, they were married in the early days of the Church), and not allowing females into the priesthood. The abuse and associated coverup is icing on the cake. The Catholic church is by no means alone when it comes to this. Anyway, I found my way to the Anglican/Episcopal church. The rites are almost exactly the same. I am drawn by the liturgy. It is what I am comfortable with. Lutheran is also very similiar in liturgy, and if we move I am open to either an Episcopal or a Lutheran congregation.

I loved reading your post and I have very similar experience and perspective. I also agree with what you say about the priests. After experiencing life as an adult, wife and mother, for a good number of years, I find that the life of priesthood is very inhumane. The denial of physical connection with another human being is truly inhumane. The limitations placed on a priest prevents him from the simple desires of hugging and cuddling with another human. They are limited to physical connections that amount to a hand shake or a quick embrace. This is not right.

[Anonymous]

Those who embrace a life of celibacy refer to it as a gift. A sacrifice, yes, but a gift of a vocation, just like motherhood is a vocation, a gift, and a sacrifice.

[Anonymous]

If celibacy is required, then it makes sense that those who are less interested in marrying, less comfortable with their own sexuality, and/or less emotionally mature would be drawn to the priesthood in higher numbers.

The psychology of pedophilia says that these people (pedophiles) look to have power and are uncomfortable dealing with their own peers (i.e. adults) sexually.... so there is going to be some overlap in the groups who are attracted to the priesthood.

And as for the hiding of it by the superiors... it's not the same as a school or daycare b/c the superiors in the Catholic church want to keep these bad priests working. The Catholic church has invested in them and wants a return. It's not easy to replace a priest. That was their motivation for keeping them. It's a lot easier for a school system or daycare to hire a replacement employee than it is for a bishop to find a replacement priest.

[Anonymous]

OP, why do you ask? Do you somehow feel compelled to stick by the church? It sounds like you are afraid of being seen as a hypocrite, and need excuse/s, is why I ask. If you don't believe in Catholicism, find another religion. I am not being flip, just saying there are so many other religions.

I would much rather find another religion than slam my own religion, whatever it is.

[Anonymous]

I'm not OP, but I'll answer -- it is hard to switch. It is hard to break the musical/liturgical habits and move out of a comfort zone. It feels foreign to go to other denominations. Plus, when you are raised Catholic, you get a good dose of guilt (for better and for worse) ingrained in you. You wish you could stay for the good parts, but you can't put aside all the times the Catholic philosophy conflicts with your own beliefs.

[Anonymous]

Why does this same discussion happen every couple of months? I used to get really pissed that is "acceptable" among PC people to bash Catholicism, but now I am just bored. My faith is my faith and bigots out there can go ahead and judge me based on their perceptions of my beliefs, I am not going to bother defending them.

[Anonymous]

We are Catholic. We converted about ten years ago from Southern Baptist.

How to I stick by "the Church"? I truly believe that despite the horrible things that fallible human beings have done throughout the history of the Church, it is the Church that Christ set up when he said to Peter, "And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.... I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

The Church and it's members will never be anything close to perfect. Clergy are no exception. But the Catholic Church has been around for 2,000 years. It's not going anywhere.

The Catholic Church has developed very, very strict rules in response to the allegations. Anyone who works with children must have a background check done and be fingerprinted. Adults are not allowed to be alone with children. There are always at least two people in the room during Religious Ed for example. You have to take a course in preventing sexual abuse. And a statement on how to report suspected abuse is included on just about every piece of information that goes out. It took the Church too long to respond. But they have responded.

How do I "stick" by the Church? I am mostly interested in my Parish. I know both of our Parish Priests well. I know the people who work with my children. And I know most of the regular church goers. It's a wonderful parish full of people who are committed to doing God's work. We've built homes, sent thousands of dollars in response to emergencies, sent doctors and dentists overseas, provided food and shelter to those in need, built schools in Africa, ....... Jesus said "Feed my Sheep". And that's what our Parish is about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

OP, why do you ask? Do you somehow feel compelled to stick by the church? It sounds like you are afraid of being seen as a hypocrite, and need excuse/s, is why I ask. If you don't believe in Catholicism, find another religion. I am not being flip, just saying there are so many other religions.

I would much rather find another religion than slam my own religion, whatever it is.

Not the OP, but I am a former Catholic who LOVED the church and am so, so sad that I have to leave.

When I was in college people spoke of being a "recovering Catholic" but I wasn't one of them. I didn't hate being Catholic. I loved it!

But I'm not leaving because some priests did bad things. I know that people are human and fallible. I am leaving because the entire attitude of the higher ups in the church is incredibly condescending.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why does this same discussion happen every couple of months? I used to get really pissed that is "acceptable" among PC people to bash Catholicism, but now I am just bored. My faith is my faith and bigots out there can go ahead and judge me based on their perceptions of my beliefs, I am not going to bother defending them.

Uh, first because every few months there is a new group of Catholics confronting the same issue. It's not like the disenchanted got shaken loose on one day. And second, why do you keep (keep! keep!) posting about bigots, when half of these threads (this included) are started by Catholics/ former Catholics. Seriously, you can write off this poster's issue by calling her a bigot, but she was baptized and confirmed just like you.

Please, in the future, don't bother. You do Catholics a disservice by playing the bigot card all.the.time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why does this same discussion happen every couple of months? I used to get really pissed that is "acceptable" among PC people to bash Catholicism, but now I am just bored. My faith is my faith and bigots out there can go ahead and judge me based on their perceptions of my beliefs, I am not going to bother defending them.

Do you not see how hurt some of us are? We are in now way bigots.

The fact that the heirarchy of the Church Does.Not.Care that they are losing large numbers of liberal educated formerly religious Catholics just goes to show you how out of touch and uncaring they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is really great to see this thread and how others are dealing with it. We have been attending Catholic school and it has further revealed to us how the church is not what it appears to be. We saw a lot of "extreme" individuals who revel in the power and guilt that they have over others and these people have a lot of blind followers to implement their edicts. I actually saw very little "church" although these individuals used references to the church to leverage their control. My children on several occasions reported actions of administrators and teachers that were in complete conflict with what they had been teaching. This is very hard to explain when it happens frequently enough. Had we not attended Catholic school, we might just be happily attending Sunday Mass here and there.

PP, care to elaborate? As a parent at a Catholic school, I am not always in agreement with what my children are taught (nor was I at a secular school), but I have the highest respect for the teachers and administrators, who exemplify living out the Faith in their daily interactions with the children. I am curious what specifically turned you away.