Parents who drink heavily vs Non-drinkers and their expectations for their kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Modeling for kids that you have it all under control and know just how much to drink before you can hop in your car in drive (said many a drunk driver, btw) is not how I parent.

Is your daily drink that important to you? (The answer is yes.)

Actually riding in a car is far more dangerous to your children than them drinking. I have minimized this risk by living a car-free life in NYC. Is living in a place where every day you expose your children to the dangers of a car crash that important to you? (The answer is yes.)

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So much judgment here! "Daily" drinkers being equated with "heavy" drinkers and also neglectful parenting. Avoiding alcohol entirely does not make you a better parent. Also this is the second post I've seen recently casting judgment on parents who are "social" and drink. Someone seems a little anxious....

Do you have teenagers? Do you drive them around later at night or wait up for them to be a ride in case they need it even if you weren't planning to drive? How does that work after your daily drink that is not heavy drinking?

DP. Tonight I will drink a glass of wine around 5:30 or 6 probably, eat a full dinner, and then go pick up my kid around 10. It’s not hard.

I don't believe daily drinkers are not at times driving around after having their daily drink. They just think it's fine to drive after a drink or two.

Depending on their weight and other factors, it may very well be fine. It is certainly fine after a few hours.

I don't know how people with multiple children (elementary age+) and responsibilities (some planned and some not) can carve out the hour or two every day to have their daily drink and be sure they won't need to drive. That is certainly not how my life works.

Well, my life with two teens does work like that. One drives themself and the other needs rides at very predictable, scheduled times. When I enjoy a glass of wine, I’m either in for the night or I know I won’t have to go back out for a few hours.

Okay. Some real life examples. My non-driving teen has stuff like hey can I have a ride to Susie's house or hey I said I'd bring XYZ to school tomorrow can you bring me to CVS. Or even hey my ride home fell through can you come pick me up. Or can you pick me up earlier than planned.

I wish my life were fully scheduled however.

Cool. None of that stuff happens with mine.

DP. ever?

One reason I drastically cut down drinking at home is that I realized that without really planning in, my nights had started to revolve around drinking. not in that I was scheming on how to do it, but that I would have thoughts like “Oh, I can’t go to that 8pm yoga class because I will probably have a glass of wine and be too sleepy” or “Oh, if I call that friend at 8 I’ll be tipsy so maybe better to talk in the AM.” I realized I was thinking that way and that it was NOT something I wanted that my activities would be limited by drinking in that way or even that I would plan around drinking at all.

Wow, it sounds like you had a drinking problem. Good you stopped. Not everyone has that problem.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So much judgment here! "Daily" drinkers being equated with "heavy" drinkers and also neglectful parenting. Avoiding alcohol entirely does not make you a better parent. Also this is the second post I've seen recently casting judgment on parents who are "social" and drink. Someone seems a little anxious....

Do you have teenagers? Do you drive them around later at night or wait up for them to be a ride in case they need it even if you weren't planning to drive? How does that work after your daily drink that is not heavy drinking?

DP. Tonight I will drink a glass of wine around 5:30 or 6 probably, eat a full dinner, and then go pick up my kid around 10. It’s not hard.

I don't believe daily drinkers are not at times driving around after having their daily drink. They just think it's fine to drive after a drink or two.

Depending on their weight and other factors, it may very well be fine. It is certainly fine after a few hours.

I don't know how people with multiple children (elementary age+) and responsibilities (some planned and some not) can carve out the hour or two every day to have their daily drink and be sure they won't need to drive. That is certainly not how my life works.

Well, my life with two teens does work like that. One drives themself and the other needs rides at very predictable, scheduled times. When I enjoy a glass of wine, I’m either in for the night or I know I won’t have to go back out for a few hours.

Okay. Some real life examples. My non-driving teen has stuff like hey can I have a ride to Susie's house or hey I said I'd bring XYZ to school tomorrow can you bring me to CVS. Or even hey my ride home fell through can you come pick me up. Or can you pick me up earlier than planned.

I wish my life were fully scheduled however.

Are you a single parent?

No. So your solution is if I’m drinking I’ll hope my partner is around and not drinking?

Uh, yes? I mean, if unexpected things are really popping up so frequently that you can’t possibly count on a few hours where you won’t have to drive, it sounds like maybe your partner isn’t contributing equally to the driving.

So you get to drink daily and your partner never drinks?

It’s ok to say not to your child. “No, you’re not going to Susie’s right now. No, I’m not driving you to CVS, you should have thought of that before.” Etc.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So much judgment here! "Daily" drinkers being equated with "heavy" drinkers and also neglectful parenting. Avoiding alcohol entirely does not make you a better parent. Also this is the second post I've seen recently casting judgment on parents who are "social" and drink. Someone seems a little anxious....

Do you have teenagers? Do you drive them around later at night or wait up for them to be a ride in case they need it even if you weren't planning to drive? How does that work after your daily drink that is not heavy drinking?

DP. Tonight I will drink a glass of wine around 5:30 or 6 probably, eat a full dinner, and then go pick up my kid around 10. It’s not hard.

I don't believe daily drinkers are not at times driving around after having their daily drink. They just think it's fine to drive after a drink or two.

Depending on their weight and other factors, it may very well be fine. It is certainly fine after a few hours.

I don't know how people with multiple children (elementary age+) and responsibilities (some planned and some not) can carve out the hour or two every day to have their daily drink and be sure they won't need to drive. That is certainly not how my life works.

Well, my life with two teens does work like that. One drives themself and the other needs rides at very predictable, scheduled times. When I enjoy a glass of wine, I’m either in for the night or I know I won’t have to go back out for a few hours.

Okay. Some real life examples. My non-driving teen has stuff like hey can I have a ride to Susie's house or hey I said I'd bring XYZ to school tomorrow can you bring me to CVS. Or even hey my ride home fell through can you come pick me up. Or can you pick me up earlier than planned.

I wish my life were fully scheduled however.

Are you a single parent?

No. So your solution is if I’m drinking I’ll hope my partner is around and not drinking?

Uh, yes? I mean, if unexpected things are really popping up so frequently that you can’t possibly count on a few hours where you won’t have to drive, it sounds like maybe your partner isn’t contributing equally to the driving.

So you get to drink daily and your partner never drinks?

It’s ok to say not to your child. “No, you’re not going to Susie’s right now. No, I’m not driving you to CVS, you should have thought of that before.” Etc.

But then they wouldn't get their special Mommy Martyr Medal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I remember the kids who judgmentally avoided alcohol in high school became binge drinkers in college.

DH and I are casual drinkers. Maybe 1 drink a week or less. But our daughter has seen us drink since infancy and we’ve never made a big deal about it other than the fact that it’s for grownups. Last night we attended the neighborhood Halloween get together where we each had a drink. As did all the other parents. Not a single person was drunk or whatever other hyperbolic situation the militants are imagining.

Again your little story doesn't go with the statistics. The earlier you start drinking the more likely you are to have a problem with alcohol including binge drinking.
Just because you don't binge drink does not mean you don't have a problem with alcohol.
There's zero benefit to teen drinking zero.
It boggles my mind that the same crowd worried about short Halloween costumes, B grades social media phones and bedtimes for teens think teen drinking is perfectly fine.

These statistics are correlation not causation. Kids who have a genetic disposition for alcoholism or grow up with alcoholics are more likely to develop alcohol use disorder and therefore more likely to start drinking earlier.

NP. Kids who grow up with parents who drink more than five times a month are likely to start drinking earlier:https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1054139X23003038.

It's not a healthy thing to do when you have kids. Whatever story you tell yourself is just justification for putting your own vices ahead of your kids health.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I remember the kids who judgmentally avoided alcohol in high school became binge drinkers in college.

DH and I are casual drinkers. Maybe 1 drink a week or less. But our daughter has seen us drink since infancy and we’ve never made a big deal about it other than the fact that it’s for grownups. Last night we attended the neighborhood Halloween get together where we each had a drink. As did all the other parents. Not a single person was drunk or whatever other hyperbolic situation the militants are imagining.

Again your little story doesn't go with the statistics. The earlier you start drinking the more likely you are to have a problem with alcohol including binge drinking.
Just because you don't binge drink does not mean you don't have a problem with alcohol.
There's zero benefit to teen drinking zero.
It boggles my mind that the same crowd worried about short Halloween costumes, B grades social media phones and bedtimes for teens think teen drinking is perfectly fine.

These statistics are correlation not causation. Kids who have a genetic disposition for alcoholism or grow up with alcoholics are more likely to develop alcohol use disorder and therefore more likely to start drinking earlier.

NP. Kids who grow up with parents who drink more than five times a month are likely to start drinking earlier:https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1054139X23003038.

It's not a healthy thing to do when you have kids. Whatever story you tell yourself is just justification for putting your own vices ahead of your kids health.

You are literally agreeing with that I said. Kids with alcoholic parents are more likely to develop AUD. They don't become alcoholics because they start drinking early, they start drinking early because they're raised by alcoholics.

[Anonymous]

Nope.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Recent studies have shown that there is no amount of alcohol that is safe, in terms of risks of heart disease, dementia and cancer later on in life.

Wait 6-12 months, there’ll be a different “study” that walks this back. We’ve all lived through multiple back and fourths about this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:So much judgment here! "Daily" drinkers being equated with "heavy" drinkers and also neglectful parenting. Avoiding alcohol entirely does not make you a better parent. Also this is the second post I've seen recently casting judgment on parents who are "social" and drink. Someone seems a little anxious....

Do you have teenagers? Do you drive them around later at night or wait up for them to be a ride in case they need it even if you weren't planning to drive? How does that work after your daily drink that is not heavy drinking?

DP. Tonight I will drink a glass of wine around 5:30 or 6 probably, eat a full dinner, and then go pick up my kid around 10. It’s not hard.

I don't believe daily drinkers are not at times driving around after having their daily drink. They just think it's fine to drive after a drink or two.

Are you completely ignorant to the bodies process of metabolizing alcohol?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids are still young, and I don't think I'm a heavy drinker, though I was a heavier drinker pre-kids. I probably average 1-2 drinks every other week now, always socially.

I do "normalize drinking" with my kids, because having a drink or two with friends at a social occasion is a normal thing to do and can be part of a healthy lifestyle. I think demonstrating what healthy drinking looks like is valuable for kids.

I also think it's fine for older teens (16+) to have one small drink with a parent in their home during a family social event. My parents would let me have a small glass of wine or a beer on a special occasion sometimes starting around that age. I also think once kids are over 18 and away at college, if they are not driving, I have no problem with them going to a party and having a beer or two. I think a black and white all-drinking-before-21-is-bad attitude just encourages binge drinking. I also think as my kids get older, we'll talk about the multitude of risks that come along with over-imbibing.

I would not be okay with my high schooler drinking at a party, I would not be okay with my college kid getting wasted, I would never provide alcohol to my children or their friends for a party, I would never allow a party for teenagers with drinking at my home.

I don't know where that puts me in your spectrum, but that's one data point for you. And I don't think it's a rare one.

Whether or not you agree with the law is one thing. But it is illegal for anyone under 21 to drink. Giving your kids a drink pre-21 is telling them it is Ok to break the law. That is a slippery slope.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are still young, and I don't think I'm a heavy drinker, though I was a heavier drinker pre-kids. I probably average 1-2 drinks every other week now, always socially.

I do "normalize drinking" with my kids, because having a drink or two with friends at a social occasion is a normal thing to do and can be part of a healthy lifestyle. I think demonstrating what healthy drinking looks like is valuable for kids.

I also think it's fine for older teens (16+) to have one small drink with a parent in their home during a family social event. My parents would let me have a small glass of wine or a beer on a special occasion sometimes starting around that age. I also think once kids are over 18 and away at college, if they are not driving, I have no problem with them going to a party and having a beer or two. I think a black and white all-drinking-before-21-is-bad attitude just encourages binge drinking. I also think as my kids get older, we'll talk about the multitude of risks that come along with over-imbibing.

I would not be okay with my high schooler drinking at a party, I would not be okay with my college kid getting wasted, I would never provide alcohol to my children or their friends for a party, I would never allow a party for teenagers with drinking at my home.

I don't know where that puts me in your spectrum, but that's one data point for you. And I don't think it's a rare one.

This is our approach as well. My kid is not that age yet but we'll let her have a half glass of wine or beer with dinner at home, or a small glass of champagne or similar at an event like a wedding, in high school. We also do a decent amount of international travel and in places where it's normal for kids 16+ to drink, we will allow it. I don't alcohol to be a mysterious thing or something she can't wait to get to try. And yes, all along talking about the responsibility associated with alcohol, the risks (not just physical but also social) of drinking too much, and the moral and legal consequences of drinking and driving.

I'm not a big drinker at all, somewhere in the vicinity of 2-3 drinks a month, usually with a nice meal or at a party. My spouse does drink more akin to daily, but it's usually just a beer with dinner and that's it. Our kid has never seen either of us drunk, though she's seen us drink plenty of times. When I was younger (pre-kid) I drank to excess a lot and drank to be social and it wasn't great. I would like to provide more guidance.

So when you have a party with your teens you will give all the teens alcohol- even the one whose parents don’t want them to drink? How will you verify that every kid is “allowed” and drink per the parents even though it is against the law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are still young, and I don't think I'm a heavy drinker, though I was a heavier drinker pre-kids. I probably average 1-2 drinks every other week now, always socially.

I do "normalize drinking" with my kids, because having a drink or two with friends at a social occasion is a normal thing to do and can be part of a healthy lifestyle. I think demonstrating what healthy drinking looks like is valuable for kids.

I also think it's fine for older teens (16+) to have one small drink with a parent in their home during a family social event. My parents would let me have a small glass of wine or a beer on a special occasion sometimes starting around that age. I also think once kids are over 18 and away at college, if they are not driving, I have no problem with them going to a party and having a beer or two. I think a black and white all-drinking-before-21-is-bad attitude just encourages binge drinking. I also think as my kids get older, we'll talk about the multitude of risks that come along with over-imbibing.

I would not be okay with my high schooler drinking at a party, I would not be okay with my college kid getting wasted, I would never provide alcohol to my children or their friends for a party, I would never allow a party for teenagers with drinking at my home.

I don't know where that puts me in your spectrum, but that's one data point for you. And I don't think it's a rare one.

Whether or not you agree with the law is one thing. But it is illegal for anyone under 21 to drink. Giving your kids a drink pre-21 is telling them it is Ok to break the law. That is a slippery slope.

PP here. Do you ever go 75 mph in a 65 mph zone? Ever cross the street when the red hand is up and no cars are coming? Then so do you. We all sometimes use our judgement and break the law in small ways, and having a single drink at home with your parents at 17 is very similar imho.

[Anonymous]

I do think it's a bad example to get trashed in front of your teens on a regular basis. It gives them the lesson that if you want to have fun, you have to been drunk. I am always floored by the parents who get completely trashed nightly during travel tournaments and then show up hungover to games or need some other parent to drive their kid cause they can't get out of bed. I don't understand it and think it sets a really bad example. There's a time and place for having that kind of fun and I think it gets kind of sad when you're over 30.

[Anonymous]

I don't drink, so no wine, no beer or no alcohol for me. I may drink 1-2 cocktail drinks in social event in a year. My DH drinks hard liquor every single day to release stress, but I never see him drunk at all. I know he has high tolerance of liquor level, and we have a wet bar at home in basement. The wet bar is unlocked with all types of hard liquor, and kids are not interested. They are still more interested in juice, lemonade, bubble tea, Gatorade or soda. I tell DH to test their alcohol level when they turn 18 at home under his eyes. I want them to have a taste what wasted and drunk mean before they leave for college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are still young, and I don't think I'm a heavy drinker, though I was a heavier drinker pre-kids. I probably average 1-2 drinks every other week now, always socially.

I do "normalize drinking" with my kids, because having a drink or two with friends at a social occasion is a normal thing to do and can be part of a healthy lifestyle. I think demonstrating what healthy drinking looks like is valuable for kids.

I also think it's fine for older teens (16+) to have one small drink with a parent in their home during a family social event. My parents would let me have a small glass of wine or a beer on a special occasion sometimes starting around that age. I also think once kids are over 18 and away at college, if they are not driving, I have no problem with them going to a party and having a beer or two. I think a black and white all-drinking-before-21-is-bad attitude just encourages binge drinking. I also think as my kids get older, we'll talk about the multitude of risks that come along with over-imbibing.

I would not be okay with my high schooler drinking at a party, I would not be okay with my college kid getting wasted, I would never provide alcohol to my children or their friends for a party, I would never allow a party for teenagers with drinking at my home.

I don't know where that puts me in your spectrum, but that's one data point for you. And I don't think it's a rare one.

This is our approach as well. My kid is not that age yet but we'll let her have a half glass of wine or beer with dinner at home, or a small glass of champagne or similar at an event like a wedding, in high school. We also do a decent amount of international travel and in places where it's normal for kids 16+ to drink, we will allow it. I don't alcohol to be a mysterious thing or something she can't wait to get to try. And yes, all along talking about the responsibility associated with alcohol, the risks (not just physical but also social) of drinking too much, and the moral and legal consequences of drinking and driving.

I'm not a big drinker at all, somewhere in the vicinity of 2-3 drinks a month, usually with a nice meal or at a party. My spouse does drink more akin to daily, but it's usually just a beer with dinner and that's it. Our kid has never seen either of us drunk, though she's seen us drink plenty of times. When I was younger (pre-kid) I drank to excess a lot and drank to be social and it wasn't great. I would like to provide more guidance.

So when you have a party with your teens you will give all the teens alcohol- even the one whose parents don’t want them to drink? How will you verify that every kid is “allowed” and drink per the parents even though it is against the law.

No, I said I would allow my kid a small drink at family dinners or family events once they were in HS, and would allow them to do the same when we traveled.

I would never give someone else's kid alcohol, and I would never host an event for teens to drink. But I'm fine "breaking the law" with my own kid in order to give them a more responsible, supervised introduction to alcohol than what the law allows. I assume my kid will drink in college (even though it is against the law) and I do not want that to be her introduction to alcohol.