When does the chair thrower have to leave school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don’t schools with violent kids bolt down the furniture and remove sharp objects that can be weapons, like they do in prisons?

How absurd. The inmates are running the asylum. So instead of removing violent kids from classroom every other student in the classroom has to learn in a prison environment. So the classrooms would not have pencils, pens, staplers, or larger books. It doesn't matter the size of the child every chair is supposed to be bolted down? Classroom desks could only have one arrangement, no more move your desks to work in groups? No student could have a water bottle or thermos in class?

I taught kindergarten for a long time. Several years I needed a safety plan because a child was so disregulated they regularly became physically aggressive. Part of that plan was to hide all scissors. One year I had to cover my shelves with bed sheets to keep items that could be thrown out of sight. My principal would shake her head in disgust at the measures I had to implement. She did everything possible to help. I quit mid year. I wasn't going to file a police report on a five year old and my district clearly did not care about safety. My only option was to leave. From what I hear, things are as bad or worse than when I left. Things in schools are not going to get better for a long time, if ever.

[Anonymous]

In elementary school, in situations where your child is not being actively bullied, try to teach patience and empathy for the often dysregulated kid. It helps no one when the typical kids get irritated and poke at a child who is easily upset. By middle school, its more just teach them to steer clear of problem kids.

[Anonymous]

From a DCPS teacher - raise hell with central office. They DO NOT CARE when teachers raise these issues and only start listen when it comes from the parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In elementary school, in situations where your child is not being actively bullied, try to teach patience and empathy for the often dysregulated kid. It helps no one when the typical kids get irritated and poke at a child who is easily upset. By middle school, its more just teach them to steer clear of problem kids.

No. The sooner society stops accepting the brat, the better for all of us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In elementary school, in situations where your child is not being actively bullied, try to teach patience and empathy for the often dysregulated kid. It helps no one when the typical kids get irritated and poke at a child who is easily upset. By middle school, its more just teach them to steer clear of problem kids.

I try to teach them empathy and steer clear at the same time. And yes, kids should not be taunting a volatile kid, for sure. But making all of the other kids walk on eggshells is not the answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Threads like this pop up from time to time and are almost never productive or helpful - just filled with generalizations or hearsay that don't reflect the actual law, policies, or contexts that schools and families are working within. I wish Jeff would do more to moderate or remove them because they are ableist and often inaccurate.

Also, we're talking about a child in your school community who needs support - maybe use that framing instead of "chair thrower." It's not like there are one-size-fits-all spaces in self-contained classrooms or good special ed private schools for every student who would benefit from them.

The only good advice here is what a PP said about documenting and sharing with the teacher/principal factual info about the impact on your own child.

Whenever I see “ableist” used I just know there’s gonna be an uninterrupted streak of nonsense

I see what you think about disabled kids. You are sick.
Even if this child doesn’t have a disability, it’s clear they have trauma and no clear boundaries at home or at school. They need support and it’s clear that school does not know what to do. I was previously a special education teacher who now teachers general education, I have had a student who shattered a glass window by the door, I have had students throw items, and hit. Those students all stopped within a month. One took 2 months because it took me a while to get through to the parents.

In the meantime, I made sure NONE of my students got hurt and learning continued. It was difficult that first month but we got through it. The other students learned empathy and how to advocate for themselves as well.

The ‘chair thrower’ will not be leaving. You better ask the school what plan is in place and ask the teacher if they are actually able to follow the plan. Ask them what they are doing to ensure learning is continuing and how they are ensuring the safety of your child. If they cannot answer these simple questions fully the school isn’t actually doing much but running around like a chicken with its head cut off or seeing a fire and screaming ‘fire!’

Too bad. It’s a new world in 2025. You’re kidding yourself if you don’t think we will finally be able to get these violent kids out of the classrooms. The days of spending years to document are soon to be in the past.

Another ignoramus. All children have a right to education in this country and children with disabilities will not be thrown out of schools like you think.

Yes, all children have a right to a free and appropriate public education. But a general education classroom is not the appropriate placement for a child regularly committing violent acts.

I cannot believe some of the earlier replies. Throwing a CHAIR? That is a choice and not an acceptable one. Actions should have consequences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Threads like this pop up from time to time and are almost never productive or helpful - just filled with generalizations or hearsay that don't reflect the actual law, policies, or contexts that schools and families are working within. I wish Jeff would do more to moderate or remove them because they are ableist and often inaccurate.

Also, we're talking about a child in your school community who needs support - maybe use that framing instead of "chair thrower." It's not like there are one-size-fits-all spaces in self-contained classrooms or good special ed private schools for every student who would benefit from them.

The only good advice here is what a PP said about documenting and sharing with the teacher/principal factual info about the impact on your own child.

Whenever I see “ableist” used I just know there’s gonna be an uninterrupted streak of nonsense

I see what you think about disabled kids. You are sick.
Even if this child doesn’t have a disability, it’s clear they have trauma and no clear boundaries at home or at school. They need support and it’s clear that school does not know what to do. I was previously a special education teacher who now teachers general education, I have had a student who shattered a glass window by the door, I have had students throw items, and hit. Those students all stopped within a month. One took 2 months because it took me a while to get through to the parents.

In the meantime, I made sure NONE of my students got hurt and learning continued. It was difficult that first month but we got through it. The other students learned empathy and how to advocate for themselves as well.

The ‘chair thrower’ will not be leaving. You better ask the school what plan is in place and ask the teacher if they are actually able to follow the plan. Ask them what they are doing to ensure learning is continuing and how they are ensuring the safety of your child. If they cannot answer these simple questions fully the school isn’t actually doing much but running around like a chicken with its head cut off or seeing a fire and screaming ‘fire!’

Too bad. It’s a new world in 2025. You’re kidding yourself if you don’t think we will finally be able to get these violent kids out of the classrooms. The days of spending years to document are soon to be in the past.

You are funny. I am a teacher, are you? Definitely not if you think this.

You did not read what I said, just responded to respond.

I have never taught a student who I (with school supports) wasn’t able to turn it around so far. If ever I get a student like this it will be because the student unfortunately is mentally ill in a way a school cannot handle.

I’m not special, I just actually know my sh*t unlike most of these general education teachers who did not study disabilities or trauma. Or the ones who think being from a poor neighborhood means kids will listen to you.

Ps. I would rather teach kids who throw chairs, than ones who are ableist. Much harder to change. Hope you’re not instilling your hatred.

I’m happy to believe that many of these kids can turn it around with the right supports, and delighted for them to do so. But I don’t see the logic in having them in a big class with lots of other kids to target while they get to that point. Seems like they should start in a more self-contained environment and join a bigger class only after they’ve made it over the hump at least on violence (letting along other disruptions).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think sometimes parents of really smart and well-behaved kids have difficulty seeing the full picture with respect to a problem child. Is the other child a 5th grader or something more like a 1st grader? Does the other child occasionally have full-on sensory-related fight or flight meltdowns? Is the classroom teacher somewhat inexperienced and not the absolute best at maintaining calm routines and expectations? If the child is younger, this type of behavior can be outgrown.

First of all, the "full picture" has to include the experiences of other kids in the classroom. Why do you ONLY care about the full picture on the kid with issues and don't seem to care at all about the child sitting next to him who is just trying to learn and not being allowed to do so thanks to chair throwing and other violent outbursts? What does it take to get you to give a damn about that kid at the next desk?

THIS! Sick of lecturing from these parents about how I am supposed to consider only their kids' needs while discounting the impact to all the other kids.

Your special, violent kid has a right to an education. It doesn't have a right to be violent and disrupt my kid or anyone else's kids sense of safety or security. If this bothers you I DON"T CARE. Parents who support having violence in the classroom haven't yet had their kids be the victims of violence or harassment.

Serious question: Would those of you defending violence in the classroom feel the same if kids were engaging in behaviors of a sexual nature? Would you tell your daughters that they need to accept seeing a certain amount of harassing behavior because those kids are special? What's the message? Are you ok sending your kids into the world with an understanding that sometimes they need to accept or be subjected to violence in support of other's special needs? Wonder how many of these defenders of violent kids also lecture their kids about Me Too and "no means no". I guess that only applies outside the classroom, right?

Referring to a child as "it" is dehumanizing and beyond the pale.

Way to focus on what really matters! Willing to bet you are the person who continues to chime in as official word police all but ignoring the substance of those who object to violence in the classroom. Maybe if I said "it" while throwing chairs and breaking things your'd be more amenable?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In elementary school, in situations where your child is not being actively bullied, try to teach patience and empathy for the often dysregulated kid. It helps no one when the typical kids get irritated and poke at a child who is easily upset. By middle school, its more just teach them to steer clear of problem kids.

I try to teach them empathy and steer clear at the same time. And yes, kids should not be taunting a volatile kid, for sure. But making all of the other kids walk on eggshells is not the answer.

This. I make sure my kid understands that children with these issues don't want to be violent and disruptive, that these kids pretty much all have something else going on in their life that is causing this behavior and hopefully they will get help to solve it and improve. But I'll also say it's not my kid's job to solve whatever it is, and her first obligation is to herself -- stay safe, protect your peace.

IME other kids rarely taunt volatile kids unless they have their own behavioral issues. When I've seen teasing/bullying at my kid's school, it's usually shy/quiet kids who get targeted, or kids who have some kind of outlier feature or behavior, like being much taller or shorter than classmates, coming from another place with an accent, having a really different family life than other kids, etc. The violent kids quickly gain reputations as being someone you should avoid. They are gossiped about but not provoked for obvious reasons. Kids are pretty rational about this.

Don't teach kids that they are responsible for the violent actions of someone else. Don't teach them that they need to accommodate violent behavior or learn to live with it because the violent person's feelings and experience are more important than theirs. Instead, teach them to report violent behavior to an authority figure, steer clear, and to understand that it's not their fault that someone is being violent or threatening.

[Anonymous]

At our charter (the year after Covid) my Kindergartner at the time was on the wrong end of a chair thrower. The school worked really hard to help this child and it worked! He’s much more regulated, not violent, and has made huge strides. Rehabilitation takes a ton of time and effort by a lot of people but it can work!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Threads like this pop up from time to time and are almost never productive or helpful - just filled with generalizations or hearsay that don't reflect the actual law, policies, or contexts that schools and families are working within. I wish Jeff would do more to moderate or remove them because they are ableist and often inaccurate.

Also, we're talking about a child in your school community who needs support - maybe use that framing instead of "chair thrower." It's not like there are one-size-fits-all spaces in self-contained classrooms or good special ed private schools for every student who would benefit from them.

The only good advice here is what a PP said about documenting and sharing with the teacher/principal factual info about the impact on your own child.

Whenever I see “ableist” used I just know there’s gonna be an uninterrupted streak of nonsense

I see what you think about disabled kids. You are sick.
Even if this child doesn’t have a disability, it’s clear they have trauma and no clear boundaries at home or at school. They need support and it’s clear that school does not know what to do. I was previously a special education teacher who now teachers general education, I have had a student who shattered a glass window by the door, I have had students throw items, and hit. Those students all stopped within a month. One took 2 months because it took me a while to get through to the parents.

In the meantime, I made sure NONE of my students got hurt and learning continued. It was difficult that first month but we got through it. The other students learned empathy and how to advocate for themselves as well.

The ‘chair thrower’ will not be leaving. You better ask the school what plan is in place and ask the teacher if they are actually able to follow the plan. Ask them what they are doing to ensure learning is continuing and how they are ensuring the safety of your child. If they cannot answer these simple questions fully the school isn’t actually doing much but running around like a chicken with its head cut off or seeing a fire and screaming ‘fire!’

Too bad. It’s a new world in 2025. You’re kidding yourself if you don’t think we will finally be able to get these violent kids out of the classrooms. The days of spending years to document are soon to be in the past.

You are funny. I am a teacher, are you? Definitely not if you think this.

You did not read what I said, just responded to respond.

I have never taught a student who I (with school supports) wasn’t able to turn it around so far. If ever I get a student like this it will be because the student unfortunately is mentally ill in a way a school cannot handle.

I’m not special, I just actually know my sh*t unlike most of these general education teachers who did not study disabilities or trauma. Or the ones who think being from a poor neighborhood means kids will listen to you.

Ps. I would rather teach kids who throw chairs, than ones who are ableist. Much harder to change. Hope you’re not instilling your hatred.

I’m happy to believe that many of these kids can turn it around with the right supports, and delighted for them to do so. But I don’t see the logic in having them in a big class with lots of other kids to target while they get to that point. Seems like they should start in a more self-contained environment and join a bigger class only after they’ve made it over the hump at least on violence (letting along other disruptions).

NP oh thanks genius 😂 those of us with kids who have meltdowns would love an appropriate specialized setting, a 1:1, or heck, even a school that will consistently follow a behavioral plan. You don’t even know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In elementary school, in situations where your child is not being actively bullied, try to teach patience and empathy for the often dysregulated kid. It helps no one when the typical kids get irritated and poke at a child who is easily upset. By middle school, its more just teach them to steer clear of problem kids.

I try to teach them empathy and steer clear at the same time. And yes, kids should not be taunting a volatile kid, for sure. But making all of the other kids walk on eggshells is not the answer.

This. I make sure my kid understands that children with these issues don't want to be violent and disruptive, that these kids pretty much all have something else going on in their life that is causing this behavior and hopefully they will get help to solve it and improve. But I'll also say it's not my kid's job to solve whatever it is, and her first obligation is to herself -- stay safe, protect your peace.

IME other kids rarely taunt volatile kids unless they have their own behavioral issues. When I've seen teasing/bullying at my kid's school, it's usually shy/quiet kids who get targeted, or kids who have some kind of outlier feature or behavior, like being much taller or shorter than classmates, coming from another place with an accent, having a really different family life than other kids, etc. The violent kids quickly gain reputations as being someone you should avoid. They are gossiped about but not provoked for obvious reasons. Kids are pretty rational about this.

Don't teach kids that they are responsible for the violent actions of someone else. Don't teach them that they need to accommodate violent behavior or learn to live with it because the violent person's feelings and experience are more important than theirs. Instead, teach them to report violent behavior to an authority figure, steer clear, and to understand that it's not their fault that someone is being violent or threatening.

So what’s worse - being a psychological bully deliberately causing harm, or being a dysregulated kid throwing things when overwhelmed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Threads like this pop up from time to time and are almost never productive or helpful - just filled with generalizations or hearsay that don't reflect the actual law, policies, or contexts that schools and families are working within. I wish Jeff would do more to moderate or remove them because they are ableist and often inaccurate.

Also, we're talking about a child in your school community who needs support - maybe use that framing instead of "chair thrower." It's not like there are one-size-fits-all spaces in self-contained classrooms or good special ed private schools for every student who would benefit from them.

The only good advice here is what a PP said about documenting and sharing with the teacher/principal factual info about the impact on your own child.

Whenever I see “ableist” used I just know there’s gonna be an uninterrupted streak of nonsense

I see what you think about disabled kids. You are sick.
Even if this child doesn’t have a disability, it’s clear they have trauma and no clear boundaries at home or at school. They need support and it’s clear that school does not know what to do. I was previously a special education teacher who now teachers general education, I have had a student who shattered a glass window by the door, I have had students throw items, and hit. Those students all stopped within a month. One took 2 months because it took me a while to get through to the parents.

In the meantime, I made sure NONE of my students got hurt and learning continued. It was difficult that first month but we got through it. The other students learned empathy and how to advocate for themselves as well.

The ‘chair thrower’ will not be leaving. You better ask the school what plan is in place and ask the teacher if they are actually able to follow the plan. Ask them what they are doing to ensure learning is continuing and how they are ensuring the safety of your child. If they cannot answer these simple questions fully the school isn’t actually doing much but running around like a chicken with its head cut off or seeing a fire and screaming ‘fire!’

Too bad. It’s a new world in 2025. You’re kidding yourself if you don’t think we will finally be able to get these violent kids out of the classrooms. The days of spending years to document are soon to be in the past.

You are funny. I am a teacher, are you? Definitely not if you think this.

You did not read what I said, just responded to respond.

I have never taught a student who I (with school supports) wasn’t able to turn it around so far. If ever I get a student like this it will be because the student unfortunately is mentally ill in a way a school cannot handle.

I’m not special, I just actually know my sh*t unlike most of these general education teachers who did not study disabilities or trauma. Or the ones who think being from a poor neighborhood means kids will listen to you.

Ps. I would rather teach kids who throw chairs, than ones who are ableist. Much harder to change. Hope you’re not instilling your hatred.

I’m happy to believe that many of these kids can turn it around with the right supports, and delighted for them to do so. But I don’t see the logic in having them in a big class with lots of other kids to target while they get to that point. Seems like they should start in a more self-contained environment and join a bigger class only after they’ve made it over the hump at least on violence (letting along other disruptions).

NP oh thanks genius 😂 those of us with kids who have meltdowns would love an appropriate specialized setting, a 1:1, or heck, even a school that will consistently follow a behavioral plan. You don’t even know.

NP but this response is antagonistic and not helpful. Everyone wants their kid to learn in a safe environment. It doesn’t have to be one side pitted against the other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In elementary school, in situations where your child is not being actively bullied, try to teach patience and empathy for the often dysregulated kid. It helps no one when the typical kids get irritated and poke at a child who is easily upset. By middle school, its more just teach them to steer clear of problem kids.

I try to teach them empathy and steer clear at the same time. And yes, kids should not be taunting a volatile kid, for sure. But making all of the other kids walk on eggshells is not the answer.

This. I make sure my kid understands that children with these issues don't want to be violent and disruptive, that these kids pretty much all have something else going on in their life that is causing this behavior and hopefully they will get help to solve it and improve. But I'll also say it's not my kid's job to solve whatever it is, and her first obligation is to herself -- stay safe, protect your peace.

IME other kids rarely taunt volatile kids unless they have their own behavioral issues. When I've seen teasing/bullying at my kid's school, it's usually shy/quiet kids who get targeted, or kids who have some kind of outlier feature or behavior, like being much taller or shorter than classmates, coming from another place with an accent, having a really different family life than other kids, etc. The violent kids quickly gain reputations as being someone you should avoid. They are gossiped about but not provoked for obvious reasons. Kids are pretty rational about this.

Don't teach kids that they are responsible for the violent actions of someone else. Don't teach them that they need to accommodate violent behavior or learn to live with it because the violent person's feelings and experience are more important than theirs. Instead, teach them to report violent behavior to an authority figure, steer clear, and to understand that it's not their fault that someone is being violent or threatening.

So what’s worse - being a psychological bully deliberately causing harm, or being a dysregulated kid throwing things when overwhelmed?

I question whether elementary school bullies are being any more "deliberate" with their actions than a kid throwing things. They are both dysfunctional behaviors kids engage in because they either don't know what else to do.

Both can cause serious harm. And both can cause psychological harm. Obviously bullying impacts kids psychologically, but being in a classroom where they feel unsafe, or never knowing when a classmate might lose it and start hitting or throwing, can also cause serious issues.

IME, however, non-violent bullying is more likely to be ignored by schools and parents. Many teachers and parents don't even recognize forms of relational aggression that can be very damaging. So we need more education about what gossip is, what intentional exclusion looks like, when teasing crosses a line, etc. Many people simply don't know.

One thing you realize as a parent is how many parents are not mentally or emotionally prepared to provide guidance to their kids on emotional maturity or regulation. Whether that's resulting in chair throwing or subtly psychological bullying behavior. Many parents are either emotionally immature themselves, or were raised by emotionally immature people and have no script to follow for raising mature, regulated kids. I have come to accept that this is the case, and it helps me let go of constantly blaming or trying to force other parents to act. Instead I focus on helping my kid deal with these behaviors at school, making sure she has the support she needs, and sometimes intervening if I think it's necessary to keep her safe (mentally and physically).

You can't control other parents or other kids. You have to just focus on yourself and your kids and live with the fact that you will not always like how other people behave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Threads like this pop up from time to time and are almost never productive or helpful - just filled with generalizations or hearsay that don't reflect the actual law, policies, or contexts that schools and families are working within. I wish Jeff would do more to moderate or remove them because they are ableist and often inaccurate.

Also, we're talking about a child in your school community who needs support - maybe use that framing instead of "chair thrower." It's not like there are one-size-fits-all spaces in self-contained classrooms or good special ed private schools for every student who would benefit from them.

The only good advice here is what a PP said about documenting and sharing with the teacher/principal factual info about the impact on your own child.

Whenever I see “ableist” used I just know there’s gonna be an uninterrupted streak of nonsense

I see what you think about disabled kids. You are sick.
Even if this child doesn’t have a disability, it’s clear they have trauma and no clear boundaries at home or at school. They need support and it’s clear that school does not know what to do. I was previously a special education teacher who now teachers general education, I have had a student who shattered a glass window by the door, I have had students throw items, and hit. Those students all stopped within a month. One took 2 months because it took me a while to get through to the parents.

In the meantime, I made sure NONE of my students got hurt and learning continued. It was difficult that first month but we got through it. The other students learned empathy and how to advocate for themselves as well.

The ‘chair thrower’ will not be leaving. You better ask the school what plan is in place and ask the teacher if they are actually able to follow the plan. Ask them what they are doing to ensure learning is continuing and how they are ensuring the safety of your child. If they cannot answer these simple questions fully the school isn’t actually doing much but running around like a chicken with its head cut off or seeing a fire and screaming ‘fire!’

Too bad. It’s a new world in 2025. You’re kidding yourself if you don’t think we will finally be able to get these violent kids out of the classrooms. The days of spending years to document are soon to be in the past.

You are funny. I am a teacher, are you? Definitely not if you think this.

You did not read what I said, just responded to respond.

I have never taught a student who I (with school supports) wasn’t able to turn it around so far. If ever I get a student like this it will be because the student unfortunately is mentally ill in a way a school cannot handle.

I’m not special, I just actually know my sh*t unlike most of these general education teachers who did not study disabilities or trauma. Or the ones who think being from a poor neighborhood means kids will listen to you.

Ps. I would rather teach kids who throw chairs, than ones who are ableist. Much harder to change. Hope you’re not instilling your hatred.

I’m happy to believe that many of these kids can turn it around with the right supports, and delighted for them to do so. But I don’t see the logic in having them in a big class with lots of other kids to target while they get to that point. Seems like they should start in a more self-contained environment and join a bigger class only after they’ve made it over the hump at least on violence (letting along other disruptions).

NP oh thanks genius 😂 those of us with kids who have meltdowns would love an appropriate specialized setting, a 1:1, or heck, even a school that will consistently follow a behavioral plan. You don’t even know.

NP but this response is antagonistic and not helpful. Everyone wants their kid to learn in a safe environment. It doesn’t have to be one side pitted against the other.

But it is as this thread shows.