Princeton to require test scores beginning in 2027

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Except for a few top names, they will all move in this direction.

Our school CCs have been telling us this is where the wind was blowing for awhile. University leaders and faculty and board want this. Individual AOs were happy with TO because it made their judgment more important and gave them a lot of pride in the art of their job of picking and shaping a class. AOs liked the individual discretion, but other senior admin did not.

Chicago, Columbia, and Vandy will stick to TO.

Columbia will have a change of heart eventually, too.

I agree. Right now, Columbia is fighting too many internal battles to address this one, but testing needs to come back. Many professors complaining about lack of a academic preparedness likely due to high school grade inflation. Standardized testing and ap testing will provide another helpful data point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What do you all advise on submitting a 1490 to Princeton REA this year? Their mid 50 percentile starts at 1510 with test optional but was about 1470 pre test optional (back in 2020).

Submit. Use the preTO 25-75th as you have done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Except for a few top names, they will all move in this direction.

Our school CCs have been telling us this is where the wind was blowing for awhile. University leaders and faculty and board want this. Individual AOs were happy with TO because it made their judgment more important and gave them a lot of pride in the art of their job of picking and shaping a class. AOs liked the individual discretion, but other senior admin did not.

Chicago, Columbia, and Vandy will stick to TO.

Columbia will have a change of heart eventually, too.

For class of ‘28 (most recent one we data for) 61% of enrolled students submitted scores. I’ll bet that percentage went higher for class of ‘29

Truly sucks. My kid was class of '28 WL and had high scores and 5s all APs. They really were looking to drive up certain other populations and openly said so.

61% is very LOW for an Ivy. Other Ivies when they were TO were still having ~85% submit scores.

And they still aren't requiring them until 2027--a serious outlier in T10-15 admissions. This has a direct impact on student quality.

Completely agree

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:With Princeton finally changing, he only Test Optional schools left in the T10/ivy group:

Northwestern
Columbia
Duke

Makes those three look pretty desperate for apps.

I predict Duke and NU change to required next. Columbia has too many other issues that risk matriculation of true ivy quality kids; they will wait until 2029 or later and will exempt GS applicants

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What do you all advise on submitting a 1490 to Princeton REA this year? Their mid 50 percentile starts at 1510 with test optional but was about 1470 pre test optional (back in 2020).

Self-reported, but this Frosh survey indicates ~80% of non-recruited athletes submitted scores.

https://projects.dailyprincetonian.com/frosh-survey-2028/academics.html

This and the fact they are going test-required suggests there is a strong preference for scores. 1490 is a great score. I would submit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With Princeton finally changing, he only Test Optional schools left in the T10/ivy group:

Northwestern
Columbia
Duke

Makes those three look pretty desperate for apps.

I predict Duke and NU change to required next. Columbia has too many other issues that risk matriculation of true ivy quality kids; they will wait until 2029 or later and will exempt GS applicants

I know NU won't right now. They have pressure for revenue sports recruiting and are now getting basketball players they would have NEVER gotten before. One was announced last week and its a GIANT coup.

Duke is quite happy as well given their carolinas commitment. Scores are signficantly lower there and they don't want to bring down the averages.
I'd assume Vanderbilt is VERY happy with their football team right now.

Schools with real sports shouldn't have to have scores for recruited athletes. Winning teams transform and complete a college experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With Princeton finally changing, he only Test Optional schools left in the T10/ivy group:

Northwestern
Columbia
Duke

Makes those three look pretty desperate for apps.

I predict Duke and NU change to required next. Columbia has too many other issues that risk matriculation of true ivy quality kids; they will wait until 2029 or later and will exempt GS applicants

I know NU won't right now. They have pressure for revenue sports recruiting and are now getting basketball players they would have NEVER gotten before. One was announced last week and its a GIANT coup.

Duke is quite happy as well given their carolinas commitment. Scores are signficantly lower there and they don't want to bring down the averages.
I'd assume Vanderbilt is VERY happy with their football team right now.

Schools with real sports shouldn't have to have scores for recruited athletes. Winning teams transform and complete a college experience.

Agree re Northwestern.

That's why the discussions by the bored tiger moms on here are so lame. They don't understand how revenue sports drive $$$ for BIG10, SEC or ACC. Not sure why (maybe they themselves didn't go to college in the US) - but a competitive sports program is a huge draw - especially today for socially extroverted kids who want a work hard, play hard atmosphere. Better than the Ivies (Princeton's problems with suicide), where the library is the social outlet.

Let schools do what they want. I'm quite okay if some schools come out and say they'll stay TO because it helps with athletic recruiting, and they want to invest in a true collegiate experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Except for a few top names, they will all move in this direction.

Our school CCs have been telling us this is where the wind was blowing for awhile. University leaders and faculty and board want this. Individual AOs were happy with TO because it made their judgment more important and gave them a lot of pride in the art of their job of picking and shaping a class. AOs liked the individual discretion, but other senior admin did not.

Chicago, Columbia, and Vandy will stick to TO.

Columbia will have a change of heart eventually, too.

For class of ‘28 (most recent one we data for) 61% of enrolled students submitted scores. I’ll bet that percentage went higher for class of ‘29

Truly sucks. My kid was class of '28 WL and had high scores and 5s all APs. They really were looking to drive up certain other populations and openly said so.

61% is very LOW for an Ivy. Other Ivies when they were TO were still having ~85% submit scores.

And they still aren't requiring them until 2027--a serious outlier in T10-15 admissions. This has a direct impact on student quality.

Completely agree

Don’t look backward. You dodged a bullet with Columbia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With Princeton finally changing, he only Test Optional schools left in the T10/ivy group:

Northwestern
Columbia
Duke

Makes those three look pretty desperate for apps.

I predict Duke and NU change to required next. Columbia has too many other issues that risk matriculation of true ivy quality kids; they will wait until 2029 or later and will exempt GS applicants

I know NU won't right now. They have pressure for revenue sports recruiting and are now getting basketball players they would have NEVER gotten before. One was announced last week and its a GIANT coup.

Duke is quite happy as well given their carolinas commitment. Scores are signficantly lower there and they don't want to bring down the averages.
I'd assume Vanderbilt is VERY happy with their football team right now.

Schools with real sports shouldn't have to have scores for recruited athletes. Winning teams transform and complete a college experience.

Agree re Northwestern.

That's why the discussions by the bored tiger moms on here are so lame. They don't understand how revenue sports drive $$$ for BIG10, SEC or ACC. Not sure why (maybe they themselves didn't go to college in the US) - but a competitive sports program is a huge draw - especially today for socially extroverted kids who want a work hard, play hard atmosphere. Better than the Ivies (Princeton's problems with suicide), where the library is the social outlet.

Let schools do what they want. I'm quite okay if some schools come out and say they'll stay TO because it helps with athletic recruiting, and they want to invest in a true collegiate experience.

You make it sound like TR somehow makes it difficult to recruit, or there's no true collegiate experience in TR schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With Princeton finally changing, he only Test Optional schools left in the T10/ivy group:

Northwestern
Columbia
Duke

Makes those three look pretty desperate for apps.

I predict Duke and NU change to required next. Columbia has too many other issues that risk matriculation of true ivy quality kids; they will wait until 2029 or later and will exempt GS applicants

I know NU won't right now. They have pressure for revenue sports recruiting and are now getting basketball players they would have NEVER gotten before. One was announced last week and its a GIANT coup.

Duke is quite happy as well given their carolinas commitment. Scores are signficantly lower there and they don't want to bring down the averages.
I'd assume Vanderbilt is VERY happy with their football team right now.

Schools with real sports shouldn't have to have scores for recruited athletes. Winning teams transform and complete a college experience.

Agree re Northwestern.

That's why the discussions by the bored tiger moms on here are so lame. They don't understand how revenue sports drive $$$ for BIG10, SEC or ACC. Not sure why (maybe they themselves didn't go to college in the US) - but a competitive sports program is a huge draw - especially today for socially extroverted kids who want a work hard, play hard atmosphere. Better than the Ivies (Princeton's problems with suicide), where the library is the social outlet.

Let schools do what they want. I'm quite okay if some schools come out and say they'll stay TO because it helps with athletic recruiting, and they want to invest in a true collegiate experience.

You make it sound like TR somehow makes it difficult to recruit, or there's no true collegiate experience in TR schools.

Np:

What top 25 schools that are test required have competitive power conference athletics?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With Princeton finally changing, he only Test Optional schools left in the T10/ivy group:

Northwestern
Columbia
Duke

Makes those three look pretty desperate for apps.

I predict Duke and NU change to required next. Columbia has too many other issues that risk matriculation of true ivy quality kids; they will wait until 2029 or later and will exempt GS applicants

I know NU won't right now. They have pressure for revenue sports recruiting and are now getting basketball players they would have NEVER gotten before. One was announced last week and its a GIANT coup.

Duke is quite happy as well given their carolinas commitment. Scores are signficantly lower there and they don't want to bring down the averages.
I'd assume Vanderbilt is VERY happy with their football team right now.

Schools with real sports shouldn't have to have scores for recruited athletes. Winning teams transform and complete a college experience.

Agree re Northwestern.

That's why the discussions by the bored tiger moms on here are so lame. They don't understand how revenue sports drive $$$ for BIG10, SEC or ACC. Not sure why (maybe they themselves didn't go to college in the US) - but a competitive sports program is a huge draw - especially today for socially extroverted kids who want a work hard, play hard atmosphere. Better than the Ivies (Princeton's problems with suicide), where the library is the social outlet.

Let schools do what they want. I'm quite okay if some schools come out and say they'll stay TO because it helps with athletic recruiting, and they want to invest in a true collegiate experience.

You make it sound like TR somehow makes it difficult to recruit, or there's no true collegiate experience in TR schools.

Np:

What top 25 schools that are test required have competitive power conference athletics?

None?
Stanford?

But they’re not very good anymore in revenue sports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Except for a few top names, they will all move in this direction.

Our school CCs have been telling us this is where the wind was blowing for awhile. University leaders and faculty and board want this. Individual AOs were happy with TO because it made their judgment more important and gave them a lot of pride in the art of their job of picking and shaping a class. AOs liked the individual discretion, but other senior admin did not.

Chicago, Columbia, and Vandy will stick to TO.

You don’t know that.

Chicago will never return to required testing. They were among the first non-LACs to go TO, long before Covid. And they need full-pay desperately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Except for a few top names, they will all move in this direction.

Our school CCs have been telling us this is where the wind was blowing for awhile. University leaders and faculty and board want this. Individual AOs were happy with TO because it made their judgment more important and gave them a lot of pride in the art of their job of picking and shaping a class. AOs liked the individual discretion, but other senior admin did not.

Chicago, Columbia, and Vandy will stick to TO.

You don’t know that.

Chicago will never return to required testing. They were among the first non-LACs to go TO, long before Covid. And they need full-pay desperately.

All Ivies returning to requiring tests is very good news for Chicago. More wealthy private school kids will take the ED1 route knowing their test scores aren't good enough for Ivy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With Princeton finally changing, he only Test Optional schools left in the T10/ivy group:

Northwestern
Columbia
Duke

Makes those three look pretty desperate for apps.

I predict Duke and NU change to required next. Columbia has too many other issues that risk matriculation of true ivy quality kids; they will wait until 2029 or later and will exempt GS applicants

I know NU won't right now. They have pressure for revenue sports recruiting and are now getting basketball players they would have NEVER gotten before. One was announced last week and its a GIANT coup.

Duke is quite happy as well given their carolinas commitment. Scores are signficantly lower there and they don't want to bring down the averages.
I'd assume Vanderbilt is VERY happy with their football team right now.

Schools with real sports shouldn't have to have scores for recruited athletes. Winning teams transform and complete a college experience.

Agree re Northwestern.

That's why the discussions by the bored tiger moms on here are so lame. They don't understand how revenue sports drive $$$ for BIG10, SEC or ACC. Not sure why (maybe they themselves didn't go to college in the US) - but a competitive sports program is a huge draw - especially today for socially extroverted kids who want a work hard, play hard atmosphere. Better than the Ivies (Princeton's problems with suicide), where the library is the social outlet.

Let schools do what they want. I'm quite okay if some schools come out and say they'll stay TO because it helps with athletic recruiting, and they want to invest in a true collegiate experience.

You make it sound like TR somehow makes it difficult to recruit, or there's no true collegiate experience in TR schools.

Np:

What top 25 schools that are test required have competitive power conference athletics?

There aren’t any. NU, Duke, Vanderbilt and also Michigan are staying TO.

[Anonymous]

Testing seems like something all families should assume is now important.