Princeton to require test scores beginning in 2027

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Remember the poster who use to insist that test optional was forever on every thread? Seems she finally got the message.

With the caveat we are going to see it remain and possibly open up more for schools below T30 as the demographic cliff gets bigger because they are going to be killing themselves to get Applicants and having test required seriously drive down their applicant numbers. To stay viable- they have to include kids who can't get high scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Except for a few top names, they will all move in this direction.

Our school CCs have been telling us this is where the wind was blowing for awhile. University leaders and faculty and board want this. Individual AOs were happy with TO because it made their judgment more important and gave them a lot of pride in the art of their job of picking and shaping a class. AOs liked the individual discretion, but other senior admin did not.

Chicago, Columbia, and Vandy will stick to TO.

You can't be considered elite and highly selective when you don't even require standardized test scores.

You are only trying to get your 'false' selectivity rate, appear tougher to get in then you really are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Except for a few top names, they will all move in this direction.

Our school CCs have been telling us this is where the wind was blowing for awhile. University leaders and faculty and board want this. Individual AOs were happy with TO because it made their judgment more important and gave them a lot of pride in the art of their job of picking and shaping a class. AOs liked the individual discretion, but other senior admin did not.

Chicago, Columbia, and Vandy will stick to TO.

You can't be considered elite and highly selective when you don't even require standardized test scores.

You are only trying to get your 'false' selectivity rate, appear tougher to get in then you really are.

+1 in the pre-2000s, selectivity meant you had to have very high test scores and very high GPA (no inflated). It's why most kids did not apply to Ivies. They didn't have the bottom line score so did not bother. That is what changed. Hopefully, we go back to having more merit based indicators again. In this age of poor teaching in the vast majority of American schools and unprepared students for college rigor--test scores matter as all of the studies in the past 5 years have shown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Remember the poster who use to insist that test optional was forever on every thread? Seems she finally got the message.

With the caveat we are going to see it remain and possibly open up more for schools below T30 as the demographic cliff gets bigger because they are going to be killing themselves to get Applicants and having test required seriously drive down their applicant numbers. To stay viable- they have to include kids who can't get high scores.

After SLACs reinstate test required one by one, I bet that the poster would then insist that test optional is forever for below T30. Next, forever for below T50, so on and so forth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Article: https://paw.princeton.edu/article/princeton-admissions-will-again-require-standardized-tests-2027?fbclid=IwZnRzaANU7X9leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHvmrW3LZZY5mXPhvhsCrG2EWBpksuhc_7ikmbdAsRlzFNBeZR56RezvUNEk5_aem_KjQIumqc7QdB6-__Om2GrQ

The University reviewed data from five years of test-optional admissions and “found that academic performance at Princeton was stronger for students who chose to submit test scores than for students who did not,” the announcement said.

This is a big nothingburger. They knew that going in, before the experiment — as did everyone. The experiment was about whether these TO kids could do well and succeed at Princeton. They have given no data at all on that point, under the guise of giving us a “conclusion” on the obvious point. It’s an obfuscation. The actual numbers must be even worse than expected…

Yep that is what professors have been muttering at two different ivies since 2021 when my first launched. They claimed to see a difference in stem that first semester with TO students on campus.

My professor friends have also been complaining about weaknesses in students since the pandemic. It's not necessarily TO though. Students are having a harder time preparing for class, participating in class, communicating difficulties with professors respectfully, submitting assignments on time. High schools are not teaching the necessary soft skills -- it's not because their standardized test scores are too low.

Yeah, it has nothing to do with TO and everything to do with learning loss + social media. Attention span and work habits were crushed. Basic problem solving has bee impacted to the point that people ask gen AI basic questions.

+1 Closing schools really hurt. This year's seniors were only in 6th grade when schools closed for a year and a half.

They've had 6 years to get over it.

My kids were in 7th and 10th grade during the pandemic. The older is now 3rd year in college, and a senior who will graduate in 2026.

Certainly some students, especially from well resourced schools and families, have no long term effects. But in general, schools and students are still showing impacts. Reading scores are at their very lowest. Schools aren't assigning full length books or demanding serious inquiry. And they certainly aren't teaching time management.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Article: https://paw.princeton.edu/article/princeton-admissions-will-again-require-standardized-tests-2027?fbclid=IwZnRzaANU7X9leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHvmrW3LZZY5mXPhvhsCrG2EWBpksuhc_7ikmbdAsRlzFNBeZR56RezvUNEk5_aem_KjQIumqc7QdB6-__Om2GrQ

The University reviewed data from five years of test-optional admissions and “found that academic performance at Princeton was stronger for students who chose to submit test scores than for students who did not,” the announcement said.

This is a big nothingburger. They knew that going in, before the experiment — as did everyone. The experiment was about whether these TO kids could do well and succeed at Princeton. They have given no data at all on that point, under the guise of giving us a “conclusion” on the obvious point. It’s an obfuscation. The actual numbers must be even worse than expected…

Yep that is what professors have been muttering at two different ivies since 2021 when my first launched. They claimed to see a difference in stem that first semester with TO students on campus.

My professor friends have also been complaining about weaknesses in students since the pandemic. It's not necessarily TO though. Students are having a harder time preparing for class, participating in class, communicating difficulties with professors respectfully, submitting assignments on time. High schools are not teaching the necessary soft skills -- it's not because their standardized test scores are too low.

Yeah, it has nothing to do with TO and everything to do with learning loss + social media. Attention span and work habits were crushed. Basic problem solving has bee impacted to the point that people ask gen AI basic questions.

+1 Closing schools really hurt. This year's seniors were only in 6th grade when schools closed for a year and a half.

They've had 6 years to get over it.

My kids were in 7th and 10th grade during the pandemic. The older is now 3rd year in college, and a senior who will graduate in 2026.

Certainly some students, especially from well resourced schools and families, have no long term effects. But in general, schools and students are still showing impacts. Reading scores are at their very lowest. Schools aren't assigning full length books or demanding serious inquiry. And they certainly aren't teaching time management.

We can assign those things. Parents have literally rotted the kids brains with screens. Third graders can’t focus the length of an Elephant and Piggie book.

[Anonymous]

^can’t

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Article: https://paw.princeton.edu/article/princeton-admissions-will-again-require-standardized-tests-2027?fbclid=IwZnRzaANU7X9leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHvmrW3LZZY5mXPhvhsCrG2EWBpksuhc_7ikmbdAsRlzFNBeZR56RezvUNEk5_aem_KjQIumqc7QdB6-__Om2GrQ

The University reviewed data from five years of test-optional admissions and “found that academic performance at Princeton was stronger for students who chose to submit test scores than for students who did not,” the announcement said.

This is a big nothingburger. They knew that going in, before the experiment — as did everyone. The experiment was about whether these TO kids could do well and succeed at Princeton. They have given no data at all on that point, under the guise of giving us a “conclusion” on the obvious point. It’s an obfuscation. The actual numbers must be even worse than expected…

Yep that is what professors have been muttering at two different ivies since 2021 when my first launched. They claimed to see a difference in stem that first semester with TO students on campus.

My professor friends have also been complaining about weaknesses in students since the pandemic. It's not necessarily TO though. Students are having a harder time preparing for class, participating in class, communicating difficulties with professors respectfully, submitting assignments on time. High schools are not teaching the necessary soft skills -- it's not because their standardized test scores are too low.

Yeah, it has nothing to do with TO and everything to do with learning loss + social media. Attention span and work habits were crushed. Basic problem solving has bee impacted to the point that people ask gen AI basic questions.

+1 Closing schools really hurt. This year's seniors were only in 6th grade when schools closed for a year and a half.

They've had 6 years to get over it.

My kids were in 7th and 10th grade during the pandemic. The older is now 3rd year in college, and a senior who will graduate in 2026.

Certainly some students, especially from well resourced schools and families, have no long term effects. But in general, schools and students are still showing impacts. Reading scores are at their very lowest. Schools aren't assigning full length books or demanding serious inquiry. And they certainly aren't teaching time management.

We can assign those things. Parents have literally rotted the kids brains with screens. Third graders can’t focus the length of an Elephant and Piggie book.

Yes. High schools need to step it up. But in the meantime, SAT scores are not a substitute.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Remember the poster who use to insist that test optional was forever on every thread? Seems she finally got the message.

With the caveat we are going to see it remain and possibly open up more for schools below T30 as the demographic cliff gets bigger because they are going to be killing themselves to get Applicants and having test required seriously drive down their applicant numbers. To stay viable- they have to include kids who can't get high scores.

After SLACs reinstate test required one by one, I bet that the poster would then insist that test optional is forever for below T30. Next, forever for below T50, so on and so forth.

I highly doubt LACs go TR. They dont have research funds to worry about, and they're desperate for diversity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Article: https://paw.princeton.edu/article/princeton-admissions-will-again-require-standardized-tests-2027?fbclid=IwZnRzaANU7X9leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHvmrW3LZZY5mXPhvhsCrG2EWBpksuhc_7ikmbdAsRlzFNBeZR56RezvUNEk5_aem_KjQIumqc7QdB6-__Om2GrQ

The University reviewed data from five years of test-optional admissions and “found that academic performance at Princeton was stronger for students who chose to submit test scores than for students who did not,” the announcement said.

This is a big nothingburger. They knew that going in, before the experiment — as did everyone. The experiment was about whether these TO kids could do well and succeed at Princeton. They have given no data at all on that point, under the guise of giving us a “conclusion” on the obvious point. It’s an obfuscation. The actual numbers must be even worse than expected…

Yep that is what professors have been muttering at two different ivies since 2021 when my first launched. They claimed to see a difference in stem that first semester with TO students on campus.

My professor friends have also been complaining about weaknesses in students since the pandemic. It's not necessarily TO though. Students are having a harder time preparing for class, participating in class, communicating difficulties with professors respectfully, submitting assignments on time. High schools are not teaching the necessary soft skills -- it's not because their standardized test scores are too low.

Yeah, it has nothing to do with TO and everything to do with learning loss + social media. Attention span and work habits were crushed. Basic problem solving has bee impacted to the point that people ask gen AI basic questions.

+1 Closing schools really hurt. This year's seniors were only in 6th grade when schools closed for a year and a half.

They've had 6 years to get over it.

My kids were in 7th and 10th grade during the pandemic. The older is now 3rd year in college, and a senior who will graduate in 2026.

Certainly some students, especially from well resourced schools and families, have no long term effects. But in general, schools and students are still showing impacts. Reading scores are at their very lowest. Schools aren't assigning full length books or demanding serious inquiry. And they certainly aren't teaching time management.

+1 Not every kid has a family with the resources to help them catch up. Look at how many DCPS students didn't do virtual school or any school at all when they closed. Many of them dropped out and turned into criminals.

Not even getting into the SN kids who lost so much and how much harder it is for them to catch up academically and socially.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Remember the poster who use to insist that test optional was forever on every thread? Seems she finally got the message.

With the caveat we are going to see it remain and possibly open up more for schools below T30 as the demographic cliff gets bigger because they are going to be killing themselves to get Applicants and having test required seriously drive down their applicant numbers. To stay viable- they have to include kids who can't get high scores.

After SLACs reinstate test required one by one, I bet that the poster would then insist that test optional is forever for below T30. Next, forever for below T50, so on and so forth.

I highly doubt LACs go TR. They dont have research funds to worry about, and they're desperate for diversity.

Desperate for diversity? They all have classes with massive amounts of FA, they’re fine on diversity. This year 61% of Pomona students are on financial aid- that’s an eye watering percentage. People of color attended these schools when test scores were required.

[Anonymous]

What do you all advise on submitting a 1490 to Princeton REA this year? Their mid 50 percentile starts at 1510 with test optional but was about 1470 pre test optional (back in 2020).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Article: https://paw.princeton.edu/article/princeton-admissions-will-again-require-standardized-tests-2027?fbclid=IwZnRzaANU7X9leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHvmrW3LZZY5mXPhvhsCrG2EWBpksuhc_7ikmbdAsRlzFNBeZR56RezvUNEk5_aem_KjQIumqc7QdB6-__Om2GrQ

The University reviewed data from five years of test-optional admissions and “found that academic performance at Princeton was stronger for students who chose to submit test scores than for students who did not,” the announcement said.

This is a big nothingburger. They knew that going in, before the experiment — as did everyone. The experiment was about whether these TO kids could do well and succeed at Princeton. They have given no data at all on that point, under the guise of giving us a “conclusion” on the obvious point. It’s an obfuscation. The actual numbers must be even worse than expected…

Yep that is what professors have been muttering at two different ivies since 2021 when my first launched. They claimed to see a difference in stem that first semester with TO students on campus.

My professor friends have also been complaining about weaknesses in students since the pandemic. It's not necessarily TO though. Students are having a harder time preparing for class, participating in class, communicating difficulties with professors respectfully, submitting assignments on time. High schools are not teaching the necessary soft skills -- it's not because their standardized test scores are too low.

Yeah, it has nothing to do with TO and everything to do with learning loss + social media. Attention span and work habits were crushed. Basic problem solving has bee impacted to the point that people ask gen AI basic questions.

+1 Closing schools really hurt. This year's seniors were only in 6th grade when schools closed for a year and a half.

They've had 6 years to get over it.

My kids were in 7th and 10th grade during the pandemic. The older is now 3rd year in college, and a senior who will graduate in 2026.

Certainly some students, especially from well resourced schools and families, have no long term effects. But in general, schools and students are still showing impacts. Reading scores are at their very lowest. Schools aren't assigning full length books or demanding serious inquiry. And they certainly aren't teaching time management.

We can assign those things. Parents have literally rotted the kids brains with screens. Third graders can’t focus the length of an Elephant and Piggie book.

Yes. High schools need to step it up. But in the meantime, SAT scores are not a substitute.

The kids literally can’t do the work. A high school teacher, even the very best, can’t control a child’s reading stamina or attention span.

[Anonymous]

SAT super score should be the average score of last three test. Too much gaming the system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Article: https://paw.princeton.edu/article/princeton-admissions-will-again-require-standardized-tests-2027?fbclid=IwZnRzaANU7X9leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHvmrW3LZZY5mXPhvhsCrG2EWBpksuhc_7ikmbdAsRlzFNBeZR56RezvUNEk5_aem_KjQIumqc7QdB6-__Om2GrQ

The University reviewed data from five years of test-optional admissions and “found that academic performance at Princeton was stronger for students who chose to submit test scores than for students who did not,” the announcement said.

This is a big nothingburger. They knew that going in, before the experiment — as did everyone. The experiment was about whether these TO kids could do well and succeed at Princeton. They have given no data at all on that point, under the guise of giving us a “conclusion” on the obvious point. It’s an obfuscation. The actual numbers must be even worse than expected…

Yep that is what professors have been muttering at two different ivies since 2021 when my first launched. They claimed to see a difference in stem that first semester with TO students on campus.

My professor friends have also been complaining about weaknesses in students since the pandemic. It's not necessarily TO though. Students are having a harder time preparing for class, participating in class, communicating difficulties with professors respectfully, submitting assignments on time. High schools are not teaching the necessary soft skills -- it's not because their standardized test scores are too low.

Yeah, it has nothing to do with TO and everything to do with learning loss + social media. Attention span and work habits were crushed. Basic problem solving has bee impacted to the point that people ask gen AI basic questions.

+1 Closing schools really hurt. This year's seniors were only in 6th grade when schools closed for a year and a half.

They've had 6 years to get over it.

My kids were in 7th and 10th grade during the pandemic. The older is now 3rd year in college, and a senior who will graduate in 2026.

Certainly some students, especially from well resourced schools and families, have no long term effects. But in general, schools and students are still showing impacts. Reading scores are at their very lowest. Schools aren't assigning full length books or demanding serious inquiry. And they certainly aren't teaching time management.

I think this started pre-pandemic, though. Obviously the 2020-2022 school closures didn't help. But the decline in scores started in the mid 2010's as tech and screens started poisoning everyone's brains.