Princeton to require test scores beginning in 2027

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The digital test is less consistent than the paper one. So yes, multiple retakes are more beneficial than they were only a few years ago. With the paper test, scores went up over time due to an increase in academic skills. With the digital test, that can happen too, or maybe you get a lower score than a year before. There is a lot of luck in what questions you get on test day and either the equating process doesn't seem to be accurately capturing weight/difficulty or the adaptive nature of which section 2 one gets is way off.

This has certainly been our experience. Every test is different, some are harder, some easier.

[Anonymous]

If top LACs want to be given the same gravitas and seen as credible places to attract top student communities (similar to Ivies), they will also move to test required like Harvard, Princeton, MIT, Brown etc.

Otherwise, all the poor scoring students with inflated 4.0 GPAs will flock to LACs to hide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If top LACs want to be given the same gravitas and seen as credible places to attract top student communities (similar to Ivies), they will also move to test required like Harvard, Princeton, MIT, Brown etc.

Otherwise, all the poor scoring students with inflated 4.0 GPAs will flock to LACs to hide.

They don't. Only williams lists an ivy as a peer, and it's the most LAC like of the bunch. There really is no interest in being a Princeton and especially not an MIT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Article: https://paw.princeton.edu/article/princeton-admissions-will-again-require-standardized-tests-2027?fbclid=IwZnRzaANU7X9leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHvmrW3LZZY5mXPhvhsCrG2EWBpksuhc_7ikmbdAsRlzFNBeZR56RezvUNEk5_aem_KjQIumqc7QdB6-__Om2GrQ

The University reviewed data from five years of test-optional admissions and “found that academic performance at Princeton was stronger for students who chose to submit test scores than for students who did not,” the announcement said.

Well, duh.

A small step back towards merit admissions at Princeton.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Article: https://paw.princeton.edu/article/princeton-admissions-will-again-require-standardized-tests-2027?fbclid=IwZnRzaANU7X9leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHvmrW3LZZY5mXPhvhsCrG2EWBpksuhc_7ikmbdAsRlzFNBeZR56RezvUNEk5_aem_KjQIumqc7QdB6-__Om2GrQ

The University reviewed data from five years of test-optional admissions and “found that academic performance at Princeton was stronger for students who chose to submit test scores than for students who did not,” the announcement said.

Why are they so incredibly vague? To what quantitative magnitude "stronger." Dartmouth was very clear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The digital test is less consistent than the paper one. So yes, multiple retakes are more beneficial than they were only a few years ago. With the paper test, scores went up over time due to an increase in academic skills. With the digital test, that can happen too, or maybe you get a lower score than a year before. There is a lot of luck in what questions you get on test day and either the equating process doesn't seem to be accurately capturing weight/difficulty or the adaptive nature of which section 2 one gets is way off.

This has certainly been our experience. Every test is different, some are harder, some easier.

Our experience too. 3 tests, wildly different scores. Best score was the middle of the three tests, on both sections so didn’t end up needing to superscore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Except for a few top names, they will all move in this direction.

Our school CCs have been telling us this is where the wind was blowing for awhile. University leaders and faculty and board want this. Individual AOs were happy with TO because it made their judgment more important and gave them a lot of pride in the art of their job of picking and shaping a class. AOs liked the individual discretion, but other senior admin did not.

Chicago, Columbia, and Vandy will stick to TO.

Columbia will have a change of heart eventually, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Article: https://paw.princeton.edu/article/princeton-admissions-will-again-require-standardized-tests-2027?fbclid=IwZnRzaANU7X9leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHvmrW3LZZY5mXPhvhsCrG2EWBpksuhc_7ikmbdAsRlzFNBeZR56RezvUNEk5_aem_KjQIumqc7QdB6-__Om2GrQ

The University reviewed data from five years of test-optional admissions and “found that academic performance at Princeton was stronger for students who chose to submit test scores than for students who did not,” the announcement said.

This is a big nothingburger. They knew that going in, before the experiment — as did everyone. The experiment was about whether these TO kids could do well and succeed at Princeton. They have given no data at all on that point, under the guise of giving us a “conclusion” on the obvious point. It’s an obfuscation. The actual numbers must be even worse than expected…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look the reality is that most of our kids and most of us parents hate taking and preparing for this one-day stressful test. But it does add value. I'm happy it's becoming the norm again to mandate testing.

The schools that will use test scores as one criteria for admission already did this for decades pre-covid. So this isn't some big ideological leap. Going TO temporarily was and I think it negatively impacted college admissions process and added to anxiety and hysteria.

If anything, going test required again will bring SAT scores back down to earth. It's really hard to get a combined SAT score north of 1500 so I'll be happy when scores in the 1400's become the new standard for top schools again.

Scor3s will continue to be high due to superscoring. The digital tests are shorter so easier for kids to take multiple times.

The current SAT is too easy. They need to bring back the old test where maybe 1 kid got over a 1500 at many high schools and there was far more differentiation at the top. 1400 was Ivy level, and even a score in the 1000s meant something. But the College Board has been at the forefront of the great failed social experiment in education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look the reality is that most of our kids and most of us parents hate taking and preparing for this one-day stressful test. But it does add value. I'm happy it's becoming the norm again to mandate testing.

The schools that will use test scores as one criteria for admission already did this for decades pre-covid. So this isn't some big ideological leap. Going TO temporarily was and I think it negatively impacted college admissions process and added to anxiety and hysteria.

If anything, going test required again will bring SAT scores back down to earth. It's really hard to get a combined SAT score north of 1500 so I'll be happy when scores in the 1400's become the new standard for top schools again.

Scor3s will continue to be high due to superscoring. The digital tests are shorter so easier for kids to take multiple times.

The current SAT is too easy. They need to bring back the old test where maybe 1 kid got over a 1500 at many high schools and there was far more differentiation at the top. 1400 was Ivy level, and even a score in the 1000s meant something. But the College Board has been at the forefront of the great failed social experiment in education.

Or requires all SAT scores. It’s not hard: Georgetown does it. If they really cared about the integrity of the test, that’s all they’d have to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look the reality is that most of our kids and most of us parents hate taking and preparing for this one-day stressful test. But it does add value. I'm happy it's becoming the norm again to mandate testing.

The schools that will use test scores as one criteria for admission already did this for decades pre-covid. So this isn't some big ideological leap. Going TO temporarily was and I think it negatively impacted college admissions process and added to anxiety and hysteria.

If anything, going test required again will bring SAT scores back down to earth. It's really hard to get a combined SAT score north of 1500 so I'll be happy when scores in the 1400's become the new standard for top schools again.

Scor3s will continue to be high due to superscoring. The digital tests are shorter so easier for kids to take multiple times.

The current SAT is too easy. They need to bring back the old test where maybe 1 kid got over a 1500 at many high schools and there was far more differentiation at the top. 1400 was Ivy level, and even a score in the 1000s meant something. But the College Board has been at the forefront of the great failed social experiment in education.

100% agree. I don’t find the SAT a meaningful measure of anything until it’s actually a rigorous exam.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look the reality is that most of our kids and most of us parents hate taking and preparing for this one-day stressful test. But it does add value. I'm happy it's becoming the norm again to mandate testing.

The schools that will use test scores as one criteria for admission already did this for decades pre-covid. So this isn't some big ideological leap. Going TO temporarily was and I think it negatively impacted college admissions process and added to anxiety and hysteria.

If anything, going test required again will bring SAT scores back down to earth. It's really hard to get a combined SAT score north of 1500 so I'll be happy when scores in the 1400's become the new standard for top schools again.

Scor3s will continue to be high due to superscoring. The digital tests are shorter so easier for kids to take multiple times.

The current SAT is too easy. They need to bring back the old test where maybe 1 kid got over a 1500 at many high schools and there was far more differentiation at the top. 1400 was Ivy level, and even a score in the 1000s meant something. But the College Board has been at the forefront of the great failed social experiment in education.

100% agree. I don’t find the SAT a meaningful measure of anything until it’s actually a rigorous exam.

You don’t find? Who are you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look the reality is that most of our kids and most of us parents hate taking and preparing for this one-day stressful test. But it does add value. I'm happy it's becoming the norm again to mandate testing.

The schools that will use test scores as one criteria for admission already did this for decades pre-covid. So this isn't some big ideological leap. Going TO temporarily was and I think it negatively impacted college admissions process and added to anxiety and hysteria.

If anything, going test required again will bring SAT scores back down to earth. It's really hard to get a combined SAT score north of 1500 so I'll be happy when scores in the 1400's become the new standard for top schools again.

Scor3s will continue to be high due to superscoring. The digital tests are shorter so easier for kids to take multiple times.

The current SAT is too easy. They need to bring back the old test where maybe 1 kid got over a 1500 at many high schools and there was far more differentiation at the top. 1400 was Ivy level, and even a score in the 1000s meant something. But the College Board has been at the forefront of the great failed social experiment in education.

You say it’s too easy, but my work gives me access to scores and you would not believe how low most of them are. Those who get above 1500 are rare. They are just concentrated in affluent school circles.

[Anonymous]

more and more of the top schools will require scores. And there's a reason for that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Except for a few top names, they will all move in this direction.

Our school CCs have been telling us this is where the wind was blowing for awhile. University leaders and faculty and board want this. Individual AOs were happy with TO because it made their judgment more important and gave them a lot of pride in the art of their job of picking and shaping a class. AOs liked the individual discretion, but other senior admin did not.

MMhmm. Our CCO called TO fake for top schools back in the summer of 2022, for anyone applying from private schools, and said it would be rolling back to required from what they were hearing, and once the big guns went back to required all top schools would. They saw a negative impact with TO for the senior class of 2022 and some schools admitted "off the record" they wanted them. They were right. Writing was on the wall. Princeton is just late getting on board. What other top10/ivy is still TO? Maybe JHU? Are any others?