Princeton to require test scores beginning in 2027

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look the reality is that most of our kids and most of us parents hate taking and preparing for this one-day stressful test. But it does add value. I'm happy it's becoming the norm again to mandate testing.

The schools that will use test scores as one criteria for admission already did this for decades pre-covid. So this isn't some big ideological leap. Going TO temporarily was and I think it negatively impacted college admissions process and added to anxiety and hysteria.

If anything, going test required again will bring SAT scores back down to earth. It's really hard to get a combined SAT score north of 1500 so I'll be happy when scores in the 1400's become the new standard for top schools again.

Scor3s will continue to be high due to superscoring. The digital tests are shorter so easier for kids to take multiple times.

The current SAT is too easy. They need to bring back the old test where maybe 1 kid got over a 1500 at many high schools and there was far more differentiation at the top. 1400 was Ivy level, and even a score in the 1000s meant something. But the College Board has been at the forefront of the great failed social experiment in education.

You say it’s too easy, but my work gives me access to scores and you would not believe how low most of them are. Those who get above 1500 are rare. They are just concentrated in affluent school circles.

Agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Article: https://paw.princeton.edu/article/princeton-admissions-will-again-require-standardized-tests-2027?fbclid=IwZnRzaANU7X9leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHvmrW3LZZY5mXPhvhsCrG2EWBpksuhc_7ikmbdAsRlzFNBeZR56RezvUNEk5_aem_KjQIumqc7QdB6-__Om2GrQ

The University reviewed data from five years of test-optional admissions and “found that academic performance at Princeton was stronger for students who chose to submit test scores than for students who did not,” the announcement said.

This is a big nothingburger. They knew that going in, before the experiment — as did everyone. The experiment was about whether these TO kids could do well and succeed at Princeton. They have given no data at all on that point, under the guise of giving us a “conclusion” on the obvious point. It’s an obfuscation. The actual numbers must be even worse than expected…

Yep that is what professors have been muttering at two different ivies since 2021 when my first launched. They claimed to see a difference in stem that first semester with TO students on campus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Remember the poster who use to insist that test optional was forever on every thread? Seems she finally got the message.

I believe middle-tier schools will continue to be TO. THey won't risk dropping their average.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look the reality is that most of our kids and most of us parents hate taking and preparing for this one-day stressful test. But it does add value. I'm happy it's becoming the norm again to mandate testing.

The schools that will use test scores as one criteria for admission already did this for decades pre-covid. So this isn't some big ideological leap. Going TO temporarily was and I think it negatively impacted college admissions process and added to anxiety and hysteria.

If anything, going test required again will bring SAT scores back down to earth. It's really hard to get a combined SAT score north of 1500 so I'll be happy when scores in the 1400's become the new standard for top schools again.

Scor3s will continue to be high due to superscoring. The digital tests are shorter so easier for kids to take multiple times.

The current SAT is too easy. They need to bring back the old test where maybe 1 kid got over a 1500 at many high schools and there was far more differentiation at the top. 1400 was Ivy level, and even a score in the 1000s meant something. But the College Board has been at the forefront of the great failed social experiment in education.

You say it’s too easy, but my work gives me access to scores and you would not believe how low most of them are. Those who get above 1500 are rare. They are just concentrated in affluent school circles.

The distribution of scores is published -- I don't think the PP actually read it. The ultra high schools are still rare.

[Anonymous]

With Princeton finally changing, he only Test Optional schools left in the T10/ivy group:

Northwestern
Columbia
Duke

Makes those three look pretty desperate for apps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Except for a few top names, they will all move in this direction.

Our school CCs have been telling us this is where the wind was blowing for awhile. University leaders and faculty and board want this. Individual AOs were happy with TO because it made their judgment more important and gave them a lot of pride in the art of their job of picking and shaping a class. AOs liked the individual discretion, but other senior admin did not.

MMhmm. Our CCO called TO fake for top schools back in the summer of 2022, for anyone applying from private schools, and said it would be rolling back to required from what they were hearing, and once the big guns went back to required all top schools would. They saw a negative impact with TO for the senior class of 2022 and some schools admitted "off the record" they wanted them. They were right. Writing was on the wall. Princeton is just late getting on board. What other top10/ivy is still TO? Maybe JHU? Are any others?

I think the LACs that want to be taken seriously as alternatives to Ivy+/top25 will need to increase the number of people submitting SAT scores. Right now, most are only around 40% submitting. I think CMC did some research where they admitted TO the past several years but found that while only 35% submitted scores, 85% actually took the test so they asked for them post-admittance and have been tracking how the students were doing. They since voted (faculty and board) to go back to requesting scores so I suspect they found there were issues with the quality of the classes they've been admitting during the pandemic years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look the reality is that most of our kids and most of us parents hate taking and preparing for this one-day stressful test. But it does add value. I'm happy it's becoming the norm again to mandate testing.

The schools that will use test scores as one criteria for admission already did this for decades pre-covid. So this isn't some big ideological leap. Going TO temporarily was and I think it negatively impacted college admissions process and added to anxiety and hysteria.

If anything, going test required again will bring SAT scores back down to earth. It's really hard to get a combined SAT score north of 1500 so I'll be happy when scores in the 1400's become the new standard for top schools again.

Scor3s will continue to be high due to superscoring. The digital tests are shorter so easier for kids to take multiple times.

The current SAT is too easy. They need to bring back the old test where maybe 1 kid got over a 1500 at many high schools and there was far more differentiation at the top. 1400 was Ivy level, and even a score in the 1000s meant something. But the College Board has been at the forefront of the great failed social experiment in education.

You say it’s too easy, but my work gives me access to scores and you would not believe how low most of them are. Those who get above 1500 are rare. They are just concentrated in affluent school circles.

20,000 kids got over a 1450 last year. 200,000 got over a 1290. These aren't even superscores. The test is not a test for anything meaningful except to show you meet some marginal criteria for performance. Don't blame affluence because even a large number of poor Asians outperform almost all of the non-Asian kids in these affluent neighborhoods.

The dumbing down of the SAT is just DEI for average white kids with the cover that somehow they're helping URM. The helping URM argument doesn't fly because top schools admit URM with low stats anyway.

[Anonymous]

[twitter]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look the reality is that most of our kids and most of us parents hate taking and preparing for this one-day stressful test. But it does add value. I'm happy it's becoming the norm again to mandate testing.

The schools that will use test scores as one criteria for admission already did this for decades pre-covid. So this isn't some big ideological leap. Going TO temporarily was and I think it negatively impacted college admissions process and added to anxiety and hysteria.

If anything, going test required again will bring SAT scores back down to earth. It's really hard to get a combined SAT score north of 1500 so I'll be happy when scores in the 1400's become the new standard for top schools again.

Scor3s will continue to be high due to superscoring. The digital tests are shorter so easier for kids to take multiple times.

The current SAT is too easy. They need to bring back the old test where maybe 1 kid got over a 1500 at many high schools and there was far more differentiation at the top. 1400 was Ivy level, and even a score in the 1000s meant something. But the College Board has been at the forefront of the great failed social experiment in education.

You say it’s too easy, but my work gives me access to scores and you would not believe how low most of them are. Those who get above 1500 are rare. They are just concentrated in affluent school circles.

20,000 kids got over a 1450 last year. 200,000 got over a 1290. These aren't even superscores. The test is not a test for anything meaningful except to show you meet some marginal criteria for performance. Don't blame affluence because even a large number of poor Asians outperform almost all of the non-Asian kids in these affluent neighborhoods.

The dumbing down of the SAT is just DEI for average white kids with the cover that somehow they're helping URM. The helping URM argument doesn't fly because top schools admit URM with low stats anyway.

Your raw numbers are meaningless. Between 1 & 2% of kids get a 1500. The average score is still around 1000-1050. So stop with the ridiculous “it’s too easy” and “everyone gets a 1500.” This is objectively false.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look the reality is that most of our kids and most of us parents hate taking and preparing for this one-day stressful test. But it does add value. I'm happy it's becoming the norm again to mandate testing.

The schools that will use test scores as one criteria for admission already did this for decades pre-covid. So this isn't some big ideological leap. Going TO temporarily was and I think it negatively impacted college admissions process and added to anxiety and hysteria.

If anything, going test required again will bring SAT scores back down to earth. It's really hard to get a combined SAT score north of 1500 so I'll be happy when scores in the 1400's become the new standard for top schools again.

Scor3s will continue to be high due to superscoring. The digital tests are shorter so easier for kids to take multiple times.

The current SAT is too easy. They need to bring back the old test where maybe 1 kid got over a 1500 at many high schools and there was far more differentiation at the top. 1400 was Ivy level, and even a score in the 1000s meant something. But the College Board has been at the forefront of the great failed social experiment in education.

You say it’s too easy, but my work gives me access to scores and you would not believe how low most of them are. Those who get above 1500 are rare. They are just concentrated in affluent school circles.

20,000 kids got over a 1450 last year. 200,000 got over a 1290. These aren't even superscores. The test is not a test for anything meaningful except to show you meet some marginal criteria for performance. Don't blame affluence because even a large number of poor Asians outperform almost all of the non-Asian kids in these affluent neighborhoods.

The dumbing down of the SAT is just DEI for average white kids with the cover that somehow they're helping URM. The helping URM argument doesn't fly because top schools admit URM with low stats anyway.

More than 1.97 million took the SAT last year so only 20,000 kids getting over 1450 or above last year is pretty impressive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[twitter]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look the reality is that most of our kids and most of us parents hate taking and preparing for this one-day stressful test. But it does add value. I'm happy it's becoming the norm again to mandate testing.

The schools that will use test scores as one criteria for admission already did this for decades pre-covid. So this isn't some big ideological leap. Going TO temporarily was and I think it negatively impacted college admissions process and added to anxiety and hysteria.

If anything, going test required again will bring SAT scores back down to earth. It's really hard to get a combined SAT score north of 1500 so I'll be happy when scores in the 1400's become the new standard for top schools again.

Scor3s will continue to be high due to superscoring. The digital tests are shorter so easier for kids to take multiple times.

The current SAT is too easy. They need to bring back the old test where maybe 1 kid got over a 1500 at many high schools and there was far more differentiation at the top. 1400 was Ivy level, and even a score in the 1000s meant something. But the College Board has been at the forefront of the great failed social experiment in education.

You say it’s too easy, but my work gives me access to scores and you would not believe how low most of them are. Those who get above 1500 are rare. They are just concentrated in affluent school circles.

20,000 kids got over a 1450 last year. 200,000 got over a 1290. These aren't even superscores. The test is not a test for anything meaningful except to show you meet some marginal criteria for performance. Don't blame affluence because even a large number of poor Asians outperform almost all of the non-Asian kids in these affluent neighborhoods.

The dumbing down of the SAT is just DEI for average white kids with the cover that somehow they're helping URM. The helping URM argument doesn't fly because top schools admit URM with low stats anyway.

Your raw numbers are meaningless. Between 1 & 2% of kids get a 1500. The average score is still around 1000-1050. So stop with the ridiculous “it’s too easy” and “everyone gets a 1500.” This is objectively false.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:With Princeton finally changing, he only Test Optional schools left in the T10/ivy group:

Northwestern
Columbia
Duke

Makes those three look pretty desperate for apps.

Northwestern, Duke, Vandy, ND and Michigan will stay test optional due to power conference sports and recruiting

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:With Princeton finally changing, he only Test Optional schools left in the T10/ivy group:

Northwestern
Columbia
Duke

Makes those three look pretty desperate for apps.

It’s not about the applications. It’s about sports recruiting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Damn. Now my kid won't get into Princeton.

Damn. My WL kid with perfect scores could have gotten in if they were required in 2024. Lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Damn. Now my kid won't get into Princeton.

Damn. My WL kid with perfect scores could have gotten in if they were required in 2024. Lol

A little sad you’re still here no? Time to move on, hon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[twitter]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look the reality is that most of our kids and most of us parents hate taking and preparing for this one-day stressful test. But it does add value. I'm happy it's becoming the norm again to mandate testing.

The schools that will use test scores as one criteria for admission already did this for decades pre-covid. So this isn't some big ideological leap. Going TO temporarily was and I think it negatively impacted college admissions process and added to anxiety and hysteria.

If anything, going test required again will bring SAT scores back down to earth. It's really hard to get a combined SAT score north of 1500 so I'll be happy when scores in the 1400's become the new standard for top schools again.

Scor3s will continue to be high due to superscoring. The digital tests are shorter so easier for kids to take multiple times.

The current SAT is too easy. They need to bring back the old test where maybe 1 kid got over a 1500 at many high schools and there was far more differentiation at the top. 1400 was Ivy level, and even a score in the 1000s meant something. But the College Board has been at the forefront of the great failed social experiment in education.

You say it’s too easy, but my work gives me access to scores and you would not believe how low most of them are. Those who get above 1500 are rare. They are just concentrated in affluent school circles.

20,000 kids got over a 1450 last year. 200,000 got over a 1290. These aren't even superscores. The test is not a test for anything meaningful except to show you meet some marginal criteria for performance. Don't blame affluence because even a large number of poor Asians outperform almost all of the non-Asian kids in these affluent neighborhoods.

The dumbing down of the SAT is just DEI for average white kids with the cover that somehow they're helping URM. The helping URM argument doesn't fly because top schools admit URM with low stats anyway.

Your raw numbers are meaningless. Between 1 & 2% of kids get a 1500. The average score is still around 1000-1050. So stop with the ridiculous “it’s too easy” and “everyone gets a 1500.” This is objectively false.

How are raw numbers ridiculous when there are a finite total number of freshmen seats at top colleges? 1% is 10,000 kids and that's without superscoring.

Quoting the average SAT score is meaningless because those kids at or near the 50%ile are basically going to auto-admit schools.

Only people who didn't score high when they were a kid would make the argument that the SAT isn't too easy today.

Have you even seen the questions on these tests? It's a joke. Instead of vocab, analogies, and adhd-proof long-form passages, you basically have a harder TOEFL test. And don't even get me started on Desmos hacks.

They're also the same people that don't realize how easy the NMS cutoff is for actually smart kids and complain how the cutoff is so low in other states.

What also sucks is the proliferation of people who claim thar mid level schools are excellent because of the SAT score inflation. There have historically only been roughly 20-25 regular colleges and 8-10 LAC max that could possible claim to be in any conversation of top schools (some would probablyclaim fewer but I'mbeing generous). Yet how is it that so many mediocre colleges are bragging about their SAT scores among admittants?

Literally you can't even be in the conversation of "I'm really smart" unless you're in that 1%. Next you'll be saying how a 4.0 uw gpa reflects excellence. Or how your kid is amazing at baseball or soccer because they're on a random travel team.