Grey divorces

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My youngest is in college, and I only know of two recent divorces among my friend group: one was a marriage that has visibly foundered for years, and one was a couple that had always lived somewhat separate lives (e.g, they still had separate bank accounts). I don't know of any divorces among couples that seem happily married.

Interesting...I'm pushing 60 and I don't know 1 person in a "happy marriage". The thing is people have to be completely miserable to divorce. But "happy" nope. Happy life, yes... but how much the marriage contributes to the happiness I just don't see it.

Most live separately together.

My 60-something brother and his wife of many years are in such a happy marriage it's nauseating. So it does happen.

We've also been married for decades and our kids are long out of the house. We live totally separate lives in our two houses (primary and second/vacation homes), travel separately, etc. We see each other when we're with the kids and grandkids, which is often, and we are perfectly civil with each other and it's never awkward between us and the rest of the clan. We've both just moved on. But we will never divorce because it's just not worth the trouble. We have plenty of money and we both have the same approach to spending and everything is joint and an open book, so . . .

My brother says we're basically a married couple with separate bedrooms that happen to be 100 miles apart, and he's right -- except the houses aren't quite that far apart ha ha.

It works for us.

Do either of you sleep with other people? Would it matter?

I don't even give it a second thought and I assume my spouse doesn't either. Not everybody is sex crazed all the time. It's typically the last thing on my mind.

If you're both over sex or if you don't care if the other sees other people, then it sounds perfect.

What's the obsession with "seeing other people?" We "see" plenty of people.
We have good friends and our entire family is local and we're all very close.
You do realize that there's no law requiring that one be in or pursuing a romantic relationship for happiness, right?

This. Asexuality is a thing, and certainly more widespread amongst the elderly.

Ya, I understand, and it makes sense if they are both asexual.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's common except the stuggle part.

The gray divorces I know (at least the women) are all financially secure and more than happy being single.

I think they ones that would face financial and emotion struggle are just white knuckling it and staying.

I know a few long term SAHMs who chose gray divorce, once their husbands were at retirement. They stayed during the working years, and then become financially sound by taking (rightfully) half of the retirement and savings and having their own life/retirement with more choices.

Wow, what great people. Stay until the money stops coming in. But I'm sure the husbands were "controlling" or "narcissistic," or whatever other nonsense term is used to deflect responsibility.

Sometimes it's not about anything more than incompatibility. Once the kids are raised and out of the house, there is little incentive to keep trying if you realize you are fundamentally incompatible.

Except for, you know, that "better or worse" commitment...

Why should two people who do not want to stay together do so? Seriously, PP, is this a religious thing for you? Because I fail to see who is hurt if two adults decide they no longer want to be married. Assume no kids or kids are grown. They could stay together and be miserable, or divorce and potentially be happier. Why on earth should they stay together?

Exactly this. If you’re unhappy, divorce. Easy peasy. No need to be so dramatic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In retirement, make sure each of you can have some of your own space in your home. And give each other the house, alone, some. Neither of you is responsible for finding ways for the other to fill their time. You aren't managing each other and shouldn't be judging how they spend their time. What is usually said about the challenges for couples in retirement is: it's twice the amount of togetherness while living on 1/2 of the money you're use to.

It's not half the money for those of us who planned well.

Planned well how? Short of an enforceable prenup, if your spouse has a lawyer with any experience, they will get half of the marital property, and if they have to hire a forensic accountant to find things you're hiding, you'll get reamed in paying back their out-of-pocket attorney and accountant fees, plus the judge will be angry and biased against you.

The poster you were addressing was talking about maintaining income levels in retirement through investing. Not referring to divorce.

[Anonymous]

Planned well how?

The post was about living TOGETHER in retirement.

Most people want to leave money to their kids. Many people do not up-size their expenditures in retirement, even if they could, because it's not a good look.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In retirement, make sure each of you can have some of your own space in your home. And give each other the house, alone, some. Neither of you is responsible for finding ways for the other to fill their time. You aren't managing each other and shouldn't be judging how they spend their time. What is usually said about the challenges for couples in retirement is: it's twice the amount of togetherness while living on 1/2 of the money you're use to.

It's not half the money for those of us who planned well.

Planned well how? Short of an enforceable prenup, if your spouse has a lawyer with any experience, they will get half of the marital property, and if they have to hire a forensic accountant to find things you're hiding, you'll get reamed in paying back their out-of-pocket attorney and accountant fees, plus the judge will be angry and biased against you.

The poster you were addressing was talking about maintaining income levels in retirement through investing. Not referring to divorce.

My bad. I'm one of those people sticking it out until the youngest leaves for college, then I'm out, so my mind is elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's common except the stuggle part.

The gray divorces I know (at least the women) are all financially secure and more than happy being single.

I think they ones that would face financial and emotion struggle are just white knuckling it and staying.

I know a few long term SAHMs who chose gray divorce, once their husbands were at retirement. They stayed during the working years, and then become financially sound by taking (rightfully) half of the retirement and savings and having their own life/retirement with more choices.

Wow, what great people. Stay until the money stops coming in. But I'm sure the husbands were "controlling" or "narcissistic," or whatever other nonsense term is used to deflect responsibility.

Sometimes it's not about anything more than incompatibility. Once the kids are raised and out of the house, there is little incentive to keep trying if you realize you are fundamentally incompatible.

Except for, you know, that "better or worse" commitment...

Not everybody says for better or worse, and for those that did your definition of better and worse might be different than mine

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In retirement, make sure each of you can have some of your own space in your home. And give each other the house, alone, some. Neither of you is responsible for finding ways for the other to fill their time. You aren't managing each other and shouldn't be judging how they spend their time. What is usually said about the challenges for couples in retirement is: it's twice the amount of togetherness while living on 1/2 of the money you're use to.

It's not half the money for those of us who planned well.

Planned well how? Short of an enforceable prenup, if your spouse has a lawyer with any experience, they will get half of the marital property, and if they have to hire a forensic accountant to find things you're hiding, you'll get reamed in paying back their out-of-pocket attorney and accountant fees, plus the judge will be angry and biased against you.

2 working spouses don’t need the other spouses 1/2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's common except the stuggle part.

The gray divorces I know (at least the women) are all financially secure and more than happy being single.

I think they ones that would face financial and emotion struggle are just white knuckling it and staying.

I know a few long term SAHMs who chose gray divorce, once their husbands were at retirement. They stayed during the working years, and then become financially sound by taking (rightfully) half of the retirement and savings and having their own life/retirement with more choices.

Wow, what great people. Stay until the money stops coming in. But I'm sure the husbands were "controlling" or "narcissistic," or whatever other nonsense term is used to deflect responsibility.

Sometimes it's not about anything more than incompatibility. Once the kids are raised and out of the house, there is little incentive to keep trying if you realize you are fundamentally incompatible.

Except for, you know, that "better or worse" commitment...

Not everybody says for better or worse, and for those that did your definition of better and worse might be different than mine

My view is that we make certain covenants when we get married, and if they are broken, especially repeatedly, then the non-defaulting party has the right to terminate the marriage and be happy for whatever time they have left.

[Anonymous]

I didn't say they have miserable lives or even miserable marriages I just said they don't have happy marriages and most older couples live separate lives together.

The bolder seems to me a complete overstatement. I am in a very happy 30+ year marriage where we still enjoy spending most of our free time together. I see almost all of our good friends are in the same exact situation - we dine out together, vacation in groups, play pickleball together, etc., and all of us do appear happy and none of the couples are living separately at all. I see the same with my siblings and their friends. Most of these couples are/were professionals (lawyers/doctors/business owners) and I do think that being financially comfortable is a benefit to a happier relationship (since there is no financial stress).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I didn't say they have miserable lives or even miserable marriages I just said they don't have happy marriages and most older couples live separate lives together.

The bolder seems to me a complete overstatement. I am in a very happy 30+ year marriage where we still enjoy spending most of our free time together. I see almost all of our good friends are in the same exact situation - we dine out together, vacation in groups, play pickleball together, etc., and all of us do appear happy and none of the couples are living separately at all. I see the same with my siblings and their friends. Most of these couples are/were professionals (lawyers/doctors/business owners) and I do think that being financially comfortable is a benefit to a happier relationship (since there is no financial stress).

The lack of significant stressors (money, addiction, infidelity, kid issues, etc) seems to be a theme of long, happy marriages.

[Anonymous]

Gray divorced don't have kids in college generally.

I have always felt that there shouldn't be marriage or divorce after 60. Don't marry anyone and don't divorce. But they can have a limited divorce or paperwork outlining everything. Marriage is a business, the estate gets too complicated to split really. Health insurance is impossible, pension issues, everything. Just live your lives socially separately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it's considered gray divorce until you're over 60. Divorce with high school kids is just divorce.

Who made you the mayor?

This person is not the mayor. I am. And this person is correct. This is not gray divorce if kids are this young.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think there are three primary "off-ramps" for marriage: starter marriage (about 1 year); school age kids (youngest kid about 6); and empty nest (youngest kid goes to college).

I would also add retirement as a fourth ramp. That's when my parents got divorced after 36 years of marriage and kids in their late 20s and early 30s. Several of their friends also split in the surrounding 2-4 years when making the transition to working full time to retirement or reduce hours.

Their divorce was before they became grandparents. I sometimes wonder if they had grandchildren to focus on if it would have changed things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it's considered gray divorce until you're over 60. Divorce with high school kids is just divorce.

You can be over 60 and have HS kids.

Not common. And if so, it isn't likely that the couple have been together that long, 25 years or less. Or Dad married a younger woman. So, still not really a gray divorce by definition. It's a divorce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My youngest is in college, and I only know of two recent divorces among my friend group: one was a marriage that has visibly foundered for years, and one was a couple that had always lived somewhat separate lives (e.g, they still had separate bank accounts). I don't know of any divorces among couples that seem happily married.

Interesting...I'm pushing 60 and I don't know 1 person in a "happy marriage". The thing is people have to be completely miserable to divorce. But "happy" nope. Happy life, yes... but how much the marriage contributes to the happiness I just don't see it.

Most live separately together.

My 60-something brother and his wife of many years are in such a happy marriage it's nauseating. So it does happen.

We've also been married for decades and our kids are long out of the house. We live totally separate lives in our two houses (primary and second/vacation homes), travel separately, etc. We see each other when we're with the kids and grandkids, which is often, and we are perfectly civil with each other and it's never awkward between us and the rest of the clan. We've both just moved on. But we will never divorce because it's just not worth the trouble. We have plenty of money and we both have the same approach to spending and everything is joint and an open book, so . . .

My brother says we're basically a married couple with separate bedrooms that happen to be 100 miles apart, and he's right -- except the houses aren't quite that far apart ha ha.

It works for us.

Do either of you sleep with other people? Would it matter?

I don't even give it a second thought and I assume my spouse doesn't either. Not everybody is sex crazed all the time. It's typically the last thing on my mind.

If you're both over sex or if you don't care if the other sees other people, then it sounds perfect.

What's the obsession with "seeing other people?" We "see" plenty of people.
We have good friends and our entire family is local and we're all very close.
You do realize that there's no law requiring that one be in or pursuing a romantic relationship for happiness, right?

This. Asexuality is a thing, and certainly more widespread amongst the elderly.

Elderly? How do you define elderly because 60s is not elderly.