Camp fail - give feedback or not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here - whoops, this thread went off the rails.

Anyway my question was whether it was worth telling the camp that this approach gave my kid a panic attack. I guess I wasn’t clear in my wording. Apologies for starting a flame war.

In the end, I had a 2 min chat about autism, panic attacks and sensory issues and everything was fine after that. Yes, it was disclosed to camp that DD has ASD. Inclusion and all.

And ASD DD was not the child misbehaving. It was another kid. Too much chaos, loud sounds, and being worried about the other kid was going to jump on her - set her into her version of an ASD meltdown —- which is covering her ears, cowering in a corner and rocking. She’s pretty good at holding it together in public but sometimes it’s too much.

My kid is 100% honest to a fault - it’s one of her ASD traits. We were able to dissect the situation this morning to help kid understand what may have triggered her panic and what kid can do next time they feel overwhelmed.

I’m pretty sure there were some trolls having a bit of fun with their interpretation of Autism on this thread. But, for those who “get it” thank you. It’s hard navigating a world that touts inclusion but then says “you are the problem” when you ask for a small accommodation because of your disability.

It’s kind of like saying “people in wheelchairs shouldn’t get access to ramps or elevators because it’s their fault they can’t walk up a flight of stairs.” No! That’s why we fought so hard for the Americans with Disabilities Act.

Ok, now tell me I’m a bad parent because I helped my 8 yr old. I mean it’s not like autism comes with communication challenges…oh wait, it does…

Thanks for the follow up. I don’t think it is unreasonable to ask for a quiet space for her if she gets overwhelmed especially if they bill themselves as inclusive. I’m glad she is going back. She should not be punished for getting overwhelmed. That said, I don’t think you can expect camp will be free of noise and chaos.

Op here - thank you. The accommodation was to allow her to take a break and do a quiet activity like coloring for a few minutes if she felt overwhelmed. There was no expectation on other kids accommodating or not being typical kids.

A NT camp does not have the staff to watch your child during a meltdown. This accommodation should never have been requested.

The camp billed itself as “inclusive” per OP. And letting a child do a quiet activity is not a massive burden. Maybe you should ask yourself why you feel the need to make comments like this.

I’ve worked camps like this many times, of course it’s a burden and takes time and attention away from the group. Don’t send your kid to a camp alone if they can’t handle it. Which clearly they can’t.

Ok then they should not advertise as “inclusive.”

[Anonymous]

We can't do camps with inexperienced teen counselors unless they have training with ASD kids or are being closely supervised by an instructor with training/experience. We learned this the hard way. My DD has a milder diagnosis, we do disclose to camps, but it's been disregarded in the past because she's a quiet rule follower who will be a relatively easy kid if things are going smoothly and she doesn't hit a trigger. But yeah -- change in routine, shaming/blaming, sense of injustice, and likely overstimulation OR lack of physical activity? My kid would meltdown too.

Teen counselors not only don't have the skill set to deal with the meltdown (again, unless trained specifically) but they are so much more likely to do or say things that will trigger the meltdown. We've encountered teen counselors who are sarcastic/caustic, who don't explain things well, who can't keep to the schedule. Even for an NT kid, this can be a trial. Our NT kid will come home from a camp like this irritable and full of little complaints about how the day went. But she won't explode while there. Our ND kid will explode. It's just not worth it.

It's hard. The better camps with counselors who know how to both prevent these kinds of reactions in ND kids but also deal with them if they happen are few and far between, and they are pretty much all more expensive because the way you maintain consistency and get counselors with a softer touch and better communications kills is by spending more. But my kid is in a camp right now that is so good in this way -- the lead counselor is an experienced educator who recognized my DD's needs right away and has gone out of her way to help meet them, even more than I ever would have expected. It's worth the extra $200 a week to know DD will be happy the whole day, come home happy, and not fight going to camp. Absolutely worth it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here - whoops, this thread went off the rails.

Anyway my question was whether it was worth telling the camp that this approach gave my kid a panic attack. I guess I wasn’t clear in my wording. Apologies for starting a flame war.

In the end, I had a 2 min chat about autism, panic attacks and sensory issues and everything was fine after that. Yes, it was disclosed to camp that DD has ASD. Inclusion and all.

And ASD DD was not the child misbehaving. It was another kid. Too much chaos, loud sounds, and being worried about the other kid was going to jump on her - set her into her version of an ASD meltdown —- which is covering her ears, cowering in a corner and rocking. She’s pretty good at holding it together in public but sometimes it’s too much.

My kid is 100% honest to a fault - it’s one of her ASD traits. We were able to dissect the situation this morning to help kid understand what may have triggered her panic and what kid can do next time they feel overwhelmed.

I’m pretty sure there were some trolls having a bit of fun with their interpretation of Autism on this thread. But, for those who “get it” thank you. It’s hard navigating a world that touts inclusion but then says “you are the problem” when you ask for a small accommodation because of your disability.

It’s kind of like saying “people in wheelchairs shouldn’t get access to ramps or elevators because it’s their fault they can’t walk up a flight of stairs.” No! That’s why we fought so hard for the Americans with Disabilities Act.

Ok, now tell me I’m a bad parent because I helped my 8 yr old. I mean it’s not like autism comes with communication challenges…oh wait, it does…

Op I feel like your narrative is changing. In this post you’re saying it was no big deal, your dad merely went to the corner and rocked quietly. But in your op, you described her meltdown as escalating the whole situation vis a vis the counselor. Going to the corner quietly with your hands over your ears is not going to escalate the counselors stress. So it must have been something bigger than just that.

My asd kid has never had meltdowns so it’s not a core feature of asd. But I get that it can be a feature. To that end, your 8 year old has behavioral features of asd that are probably more severe that aren’t mainstream camp okay. Especially a camp with teenage counselors. I think it would be pretty galling to give this camp “feedback” like you expect improvements. But okay to talk to them if you’re genuinely doing it for your own edification to better support your kid.

[Anonymous]

Op, some mainstream summer camps are less loud and less chaotic, like art camp & dance camp at studios, or camps that are mainly indoors or academic related. Those camps tend to be more structured aka less changing environments. The camps that are mainly outdoor tend to be more chaotics, more loud, more subject to change due to weather, and it may need charging of environment from one place to other places.

I have 2 ASD/ADHD kids, and they both do well at mainstream summer camps. They were used to high staff/teacher ratio at school with 1:24 kids in classroom and 6: 80 kids at aftercares. They are used to loud sound, chaotics, moving around from stations to stations etc.. Summer camps have been fun to them. Of course, they sometimes bump into 1-2 kids that they don't like, and I tell them that just ignore them. One of my kid has moderate anxiety, so he sometimes stims to calm him down. And, pp is right that more expensive camps tend to be more better run and more structured.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Counselor over reacted and punished the whole group making them sit silently in a corner and threatening them with school work.

I am surprised at people who think this was a good approach. Having them sit for a small amount of time to calm down is fine, threatening campers with school work is weird and inappropriate.

It’s probably not ideal, but camps are staffed by HS and college kids. If the kids are running around and being unsafe or disruptive, I don’t think it’s that big a deal that a counselor would say something like that. If OP’s child cannot tolerate that, then it probably is not a great setting for her.

Agree as the mom of a teen who is a camp counselor. Was the counselor's approach ideal? No, but the counselor was likely doing their best to keep order and safety, and it wasn't out of bounds at all.

Being told to sit quietly should not have triggered a meltdown. If a kid can't handle that, they probably need a camp with more support or geared to neurodiverse kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We can't do camps with inexperienced teen counselors unless they have training with ASD kids or are being closely supervised by an instructor with training/experience. We learned this the hard way. My DD has a milder diagnosis, we do disclose to camps, but it's been disregarded in the past because she's a quiet rule follower who will be a relatively easy kid if things are going smoothly and she doesn't hit a trigger. But yeah -- change in routine, shaming/blaming, sense of injustice, and likely overstimulation OR lack of physical activity? My kid would meltdown too.

Teen counselors not only don't have the skill set to deal with the meltdown (again, unless trained specifically) but they are so much more likely to do or say things that will trigger the meltdown. We've encountered teen counselors who are sarcastic/caustic, who don't explain things well, who can't keep to the schedule. Even for an NT kid, this can be a trial. Our NT kid will come home from a camp like this irritable and full of little complaints about how the day went. But she won't explode while there. Our ND kid will explode. It's just not worth it.

It's hard. The better camps with counselors who know how to both prevent these kinds of reactions in ND kids but also deal with them if they happen are few and far between, and they are pretty much all more expensive because the way you maintain consistency and get counselors with a softer touch and better communications kills is by spending more. But my kid is in a camp right now that is so good in this way -- the lead counselor is an experienced educator who recognized my DD's needs right away and has gone out of her way to help meet them, even more than I ever would have expected. It's worth the extra $200 a week to know DD will be happy the whole day, come home happy, and not fight going to camp. Absolutely worth it.

It's not just the teen counselors, it's the way the camps are set up. My DD is a teen counselor this year. She got an autistic kid that she didn't know was autistic. She only found out when another counselor (who knew the kid from a previous time) checked in with her about Larla and told her Larla was autistic. Larla had already had a few meltdowns but then, so DD wasn't entirely surprised. DD (who has no training in ASD) did her best to help Larla which pretty much entailed taking Larla out of the room whenever Larla got upset. This apparently worked well for Larla with Larla even commenting to DD that "you always know how to calm me down!" But even though that went well, the camp wasn't staffed for it. When DD has to leave with Larla, that leaves 1-2 junior counselor (15-16 years old) in the room with the rest of the class. And DD as the head counselor now has to personally attend to Larla while keeping the rest of the class on schedule, safe, occupied, engaged, etc.

Moral of the story: ask questions ahead of time about staffing, training, ability to handle neurodiverse kids and disclose ALL of your child's needs. If they camp isn't set up for your child, send them elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here - whoops, this thread went off the rails.

Anyway my question was whether it was worth telling the camp that this approach gave my kid a panic attack. I guess I wasn’t clear in my wording. Apologies for starting a flame war.

In the end, I had a 2 min chat about autism, panic attacks and sensory issues and everything was fine after that. Yes, it was disclosed to camp that DD has ASD. Inclusion and all.

And ASD DD was not the child misbehaving. It was another kid. Too much chaos, loud sounds, and being worried about the other kid was going to jump on her - set her into her version of an ASD meltdown —- which is covering her ears, cowering in a corner and rocking. She’s pretty good at holding it together in public but sometimes it’s too much.

My kid is 100% honest to a fault - it’s one of her ASD traits. We were able to dissect the situation this morning to help kid understand what may have triggered her panic and what kid can do next time they feel overwhelmed.

I’m pretty sure there were some trolls having a bit of fun with their interpretation of Autism on this thread. But, for those who “get it” thank you. It’s hard navigating a world that touts inclusion but then says “you are the problem” when you ask for a small accommodation because of your disability.

It’s kind of like saying “people in wheelchairs shouldn’t get access to ramps or elevators because it’s their fault they can’t walk up a flight of stairs.” No! That’s why we fought so hard for the Americans with Disabilities Act.

Ok, now tell me I’m a bad parent because I helped my 8 yr old. I mean it’s not like autism comes with communication challenges…oh wait, it does…

Thanks for the follow up. I don’t think it is unreasonable to ask for a quiet space for her if she gets overwhelmed especially if they bill themselves as inclusive. I’m glad she is going back. She should not be punished for getting overwhelmed. That said, I don’t think you can expect camp will be free of noise and chaos.

Op here - thank you. The accommodation was to allow her to take a break and do a quiet activity like coloring for a few minutes if she felt overwhelmed. There was no expectation on other kids accommodating or not being typical kids.

A NT camp does not have the staff to watch your child during a meltdown. This accommodation should never have been requested.

The camp billed itself as “inclusive” per OP. And letting a child do a quiet activity is not a massive burden. Maybe you should ask yourself why you feel the need to make comments like this.

What does inclusive even mean at this point? I wouldn’t read inclusive and think that they can accommodate ND kids whose needs are greater than NT kids. Unless they spell out what they mean by inclusive consider it meaningless and don’t make assumptions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here - whoops, this thread went off the rails.

Anyway my question was whether it was worth telling the camp that this approach gave my kid a panic attack. I guess I wasn’t clear in my wording. Apologies for starting a flame war.

In the end, I had a 2 min chat about autism, panic attacks and sensory issues and everything was fine after that. Yes, it was disclosed to camp that DD has ASD. Inclusion and all.

And ASD DD was not the child misbehaving. It was another kid. Too much chaos, loud sounds, and being worried about the other kid was going to jump on her - set her into her version of an ASD meltdown —- which is covering her ears, cowering in a corner and rocking. She’s pretty good at holding it together in public but sometimes it’s too much.

My kid is 100% honest to a fault - it’s one of her ASD traits. We were able to dissect the situation this morning to help kid understand what may have triggered her panic and what kid can do next time they feel overwhelmed.

I’m pretty sure there were some trolls having a bit of fun with their interpretation of Autism on this thread. But, for those who “get it” thank you. It’s hard navigating a world that touts inclusion but then says “you are the problem” when you ask for a small accommodation because of your disability.

It’s kind of like saying “people in wheelchairs shouldn’t get access to ramps or elevators because it’s their fault they can’t walk up a flight of stairs.” No! That’s why we fought so hard for the Americans with Disabilities Act.

Ok, now tell me I’m a bad parent because I helped my 8 yr old. I mean it’s not like autism comes with communication challenges…oh wait, it does…

Thanks for the follow up. I don’t think it is unreasonable to ask for a quiet space for her if she gets overwhelmed especially if they bill themselves as inclusive. I’m glad she is going back. She should not be punished for getting overwhelmed. That said, I don’t think you can expect camp will be free of noise and chaos.

Op here - thank you. The accommodation was to allow her to take a break and do a quiet activity like coloring for a few minutes if she felt overwhelmed. There was no expectation on other kids accommodating or not being typical kids.

A NT camp does not have the staff to watch your child during a meltdown. This accommodation should never have been requested.

The camp billed itself as “inclusive” per OP. And letting a child do a quiet activity is not a massive burden. Maybe you should ask yourself why you feel the need to make comments like this.

I’ve worked camps like this many times, of course it’s a burden and takes time and attention away from the group. Don’t send your kid to a camp alone if they can’t handle it. Which clearly they can’t.

Ok then they should not advertise as “inclusive.”

Inclusive usually means that they allow a 1:1 to join, your kid won’t be made fun of for having a disability, the activities are generally not overly complex or complicated or anything overly physical, and some provide a 1:1 when asked. It doesn’t usually mean they have extra staff to devote to support your SN child unless a 1:1 was provided up front. If they don’t provide 1:1 then you really need a SN camp if you’re needing segregated care or extra supports and can’t provide your own 1:1.

[Anonymous]

Theres no need to complain. Everyone gets frustrated and has bad days. Doesn't seem like the counselor did anything dangerous or wrong, just not a great moment for anyone. Your kid wants to go back. Why would you discourage that??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op, some mainstream summer camps are less loud and less chaotic, like art camp & dance camp at studios, or camps that are mainly indoors or academic related. Those camps tend to be more structured aka less changing environments. The camps that are mainly outdoor tend to be more chaotics, more loud, more subject to change due to weather, and it may need charging of environment from one place to other places.

I have 2 ASD/ADHD kids, and they both do well at mainstream summer camps. They were used to high staff/teacher ratio at school with 1:24 kids in classroom and 6: 80 kids at aftercares. They are used to loud sound, chaotics, moving around from stations to stations etc.. Summer camps have been fun to them. Of course, they sometimes bump into 1-2 kids that they don't like, and I tell them that just ignore them. One of my kid has moderate anxiety, so he sometimes stims to calm him down. And, pp is right that more expensive camps tend to be more better run and more structured.

OP: Look for sewing camps. My ADHD kid gets overwhelmed at most NT camps but loved sewing camp. I think 8 might be a tad young but keep in mind for next summer. Same with cooking camp. Expensive but low-stress, low-noise. Plus Food! (my kid eats everything). My DD also loved art camp but only b/c she had friends at it. She doesn't want to go without them b/c she's terrible at art.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here - whoops, this thread went off the rails.

Anyway my question was whether it was worth telling the camp that this approach gave my kid a panic attack. I guess I wasn’t clear in my wording. Apologies for starting a flame war.

In the end, I had a 2 min chat about autism, panic attacks and sensory issues and everything was fine after that. Yes, it was disclosed to camp that DD has ASD. Inclusion and all.

And ASD DD was not the child misbehaving. It was another kid. Too much chaos, loud sounds, and being worried about the other kid was going to jump on her - set her into her version of an ASD meltdown —- which is covering her ears, cowering in a corner and rocking. She’s pretty good at holding it together in public but sometimes it’s too much.

My kid is 100% honest to a fault - it’s one of her ASD traits. We were able to dissect the situation this morning to help kid understand what may have triggered her panic and what kid can do next time they feel overwhelmed.

I’m pretty sure there were some trolls having a bit of fun with their interpretation of Autism on this thread. But, for those who “get it” thank you. It’s hard navigating a world that touts inclusion but then says “you are the problem” when you ask for a small accommodation because of your disability.

It’s kind of like saying “people in wheelchairs shouldn’t get access to ramps or elevators because it’s their fault they can’t walk up a flight of stairs.” No! That’s why we fought so hard for the Americans with Disabilities Act.

Ok, now tell me I’m a bad parent because I helped my 8 yr old. I mean it’s not like autism comes with communication challenges…oh wait, it does…

Thanks for the follow up. I don’t think it is unreasonable to ask for a quiet space for her if she gets overwhelmed especially if they bill themselves as inclusive. I’m glad she is going back. She should not be punished for getting overwhelmed. That said, I don’t think you can expect camp will be free of noise and chaos.

Op here - thank you. The accommodation was to allow her to take a break and do a quiet activity like coloring for a few minutes if she felt overwhelmed. There was no expectation on other kids accommodating or not being typical kids.

A NT camp does not have the staff to watch your child during a meltdown. This accommodation should never have been requested.

The camp billed itself as “inclusive” per OP. And letting a child do a quiet activity is not a massive burden. Maybe you should ask yourself why you feel the need to make comments like this.

What does inclusive even mean at this point? I wouldn’t read inclusive and think that they can accommodate ND kids whose needs are greater than NT kids. Unless they spell out what they mean by inclusive consider it meaningless and don’t make assumptions.

Isn’t that a little absurd of them to use that term if they don’t mean it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here - whoops, this thread went off the rails.

Anyway my question was whether it was worth telling the camp that this approach gave my kid a panic attack. I guess I wasn’t clear in my wording. Apologies for starting a flame war.

In the end, I had a 2 min chat about autism, panic attacks and sensory issues and everything was fine after that. Yes, it was disclosed to camp that DD has ASD. Inclusion and all.

And ASD DD was not the child misbehaving. It was another kid. Too much chaos, loud sounds, and being worried about the other kid was going to jump on her - set her into her version of an ASD meltdown —- which is covering her ears, cowering in a corner and rocking. She’s pretty good at holding it together in public but sometimes it’s too much.

My kid is 100% honest to a fault - it’s one of her ASD traits. We were able to dissect the situation this morning to help kid understand what may have triggered her panic and what kid can do next time they feel overwhelmed.

I’m pretty sure there were some trolls having a bit of fun with their interpretation of Autism on this thread. But, for those who “get it” thank you. It’s hard navigating a world that touts inclusion but then says “you are the problem” when you ask for a small accommodation because of your disability.

It’s kind of like saying “people in wheelchairs shouldn’t get access to ramps or elevators because it’s their fault they can’t walk up a flight of stairs.” No! That’s why we fought so hard for the Americans with Disabilities Act.

Ok, now tell me I’m a bad parent because I helped my 8 yr old. I mean it’s not like autism comes with communication challenges…oh wait, it does…

Thanks for the follow up. I don’t think it is unreasonable to ask for a quiet space for her if she gets overwhelmed especially if they bill themselves as inclusive. I’m glad she is going back. She should not be punished for getting overwhelmed. That said, I don’t think you can expect camp will be free of noise and chaos.

Op here - thank you. The accommodation was to allow her to take a break and do a quiet activity like coloring for a few minutes if she felt overwhelmed. There was no expectation on other kids accommodating or not being typical kids.

A NT camp does not have the staff to watch your child during a meltdown. This accommodation should never have been requested.

The camp billed itself as “inclusive” per OP. And letting a child do a quiet activity is not a massive burden. Maybe you should ask yourself why you feel the need to make comments like this.

What does inclusive even mean at this point? I wouldn’t read inclusive and think that they can accommodate ND kids whose needs are greater than NT kids. Unless they spell out what they mean by inclusive consider it meaningless and don’t make assumptions.

Isn’t that a little absurd of them to use that term if they don’t mean it?

Inclusivity does not automatically mean additional supports. At a baseline level it means they are welcoming to everyone. It means they won’t exclude your kid from activities because they are SN. They will encourage your kid standing in the corner to play but they won’t do much beyond encourage. It means activities are designed so everyone can participate. At free time they’ll have a couple different activities to choose from and direct your kid to the best fit. If they are aware of your child’s needs it means your kid might be given occasional extra attention like being seated next to a counselor but that counselor is still likely to be an untrained teenager watching 10-20 other kids. If your kid isn’t the highest need in the group they’re likely to get no extra attention. Sometimes it means they provide a 1:1, but that’s established prior to camp. They will support you providing your own 1:1.

Inclusive camps are very different than special needs camps or even NT camps that staff 1:1 counselors. A SN camp has smaller participant numbers overall and staffs almost entirely 1:1 or 1:2 ratios of counselors plus additional involved staff. Activities are consistent, well planned and fit within the scope of abilities for most campers. Those counselors are usually a mix of older adults and college kids compared to a NT camp that’s usually a couple older adults in the background and mostly high school kids. A camp that is NT with supports is a mixture skewing older with the more experienced counselors assigned as the 1:1. Some are even able to provide the same 1:1 across years.

For a kid like OPs I would at a minimum choose NT with 1:1 supports, provided by the camp or send your own. The behavior OP described would be an outlier for a NT inclusive camp with no staffed 1:1 supports unless that child had an outside 1:1 with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:ASD DD loved camp until counselor got overwhelmed and decided on a group punishment.

The chain of events kicked off with a few kids getting a bit hyper. the kids were getting bored, and probably just needed a switch to a more physical activity.

Counselor over reacted and punished the whole group making them sit silently in a corner and threatening them with school work.

Cue sense of justice, abrupt change in routine, and already at max mental load and ASD DD had an autistic meltdown. It made an already stressed counselor even more stressed which made AsD kid more stressed.. You know how this goes.

We gave our kid the option to take a day off but DD wants to go back (good).

Would you (nicely) educate counselor on what happened and how to handle it in the future or let it go?

Do you know exactly what happened? I’d call and get the other side of the story first and then express some concerns and explain how best to help your DD during situations like this.

If the counselor was truly overwhelmed maybe this was the best thing in the moment. The threats about school work was unnecessary though. You can just make her aware that your daughter would be impacted differently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here - whoops, this thread went off the rails.

Anyway my question was whether it was worth telling the camp that this approach gave my kid a panic attack. I guess I wasn’t clear in my wording. Apologies for starting a flame war.

In the end, I had a 2 min chat about autism, panic attacks and sensory issues and everything was fine after that. Yes, it was disclosed to camp that DD has ASD. Inclusion and all.

And ASD DD was not the child misbehaving. It was another kid. Too much chaos, loud sounds, and being worried about the other kid was going to jump on her - set her into her version of an ASD meltdown —- which is covering her ears, cowering in a corner and rocking. She’s pretty good at holding it together in public but sometimes it’s too much.

My kid is 100% honest to a fault - it’s one of her ASD traits. We were able to dissect the situation this morning to help kid understand what may have triggered her panic and what kid can do next time they feel overwhelmed.

I’m pretty sure there were some trolls having a bit of fun with their interpretation of Autism on this thread. But, for those who “get it” thank you. It’s hard navigating a world that touts inclusion but then says “you are the problem” when you ask for a small accommodation because of your disability.

It’s kind of like saying “people in wheelchairs shouldn’t get access to ramps or elevators because it’s their fault they can’t walk up a flight of stairs.” No! That’s why we fought so hard for the Americans with Disabilities Act.

Ok, now tell me I’m a bad parent because I helped my 8 yr old. I mean it’s not like autism comes with communication challenges…oh wait, it does…

Thanks for the follow up. I don’t think it is unreasonable to ask for a quiet space for her if she gets overwhelmed especially if they bill themselves as inclusive. I’m glad she is going back. She should not be punished for getting overwhelmed. That said, I don’t think you can expect camp will be free of noise and chaos.

Op here - thank you. The accommodation was to allow her to take a break and do a quiet activity like coloring for a few minutes if she felt overwhelmed. There was no expectation on other kids accommodating or not being typical kids.

A NT camp does not have the staff to watch your child during a meltdown. This accommodation should never have been requested.

The camp billed itself as “inclusive” per OP. And letting a child do a quiet activity is not a massive burden. Maybe you should ask yourself why you feel the need to make comments like this.

What does inclusive even mean at this point? I wouldn’t read inclusive and think that they can accommodate ND kids whose needs are greater than NT kids. Unless they spell out what they mean by inclusive consider it meaningless and don’t make assumptions.

Isn’t that a little absurd of them to use that term if they don’t mean it?

Inclusivity does not automatically mean additional supports. At a baseline level it means they are welcoming to everyone. It means they won’t exclude your kid from activities because they are SN. They will encourage your kid standing in the corner to play but they won’t do much beyond encourage. It means activities are designed so everyone can participate. At free time they’ll have a couple different activities to choose from and direct your kid to the best fit. If they are aware of your child’s needs it means your kid might be given occasional extra attention like being seated next to a counselor but that counselor is still likely to be an untrained teenager watching 10-20 other kids. If your kid isn’t the highest need in the group they’re likely to get no extra attention. Sometimes it means they provide a 1:1, but that’s established prior to camp. They will support you providing your own 1:1.

Inclusive camps are very different than special needs camps or even NT camps that staff 1:1 counselors. A SN camp has smaller participant numbers overall and staffs almost entirely 1:1 or 1:2 ratios of counselors plus additional involved staff. Activities are consistent, well planned and fit within the scope of abilities for most campers. Those counselors are usually a mix of older adults and college kids compared to a NT camp that’s usually a couple older adults in the background and mostly high school kids. A camp that is NT with supports is a mixture skewing older with the more experienced counselors assigned as the 1:1. Some are even able to provide the same 1:1 across years.

For a kid like OPs I would at a minimum choose NT with 1:1 supports, provided by the camp or send your own. The behavior OP described would be an outlier for a NT inclusive camp with no staffed 1:1 supports unless that child had an outside 1:1 with them.

What you describe as “inclusive” sounds like a bare minimum involved in caring for a group of young kids. NT kids also are going to like different activities, want to be encouraged to participate, etc. At this point I think we all know that “inclusive” is a marketing term or maybe designed for one of the 1 in 4 kids now claiming to be “SN” - not actually SN.

Anyway, I only ever picked camps that could actually demonstrate they were willing to talk with me and take my kids needs into account. Sometimes this meant they had an actual inclusion coordinator and sometimes it meant they had a reputation of being good with SN (although not a SN school). And quality camps even if not “inclusive” do a better job of hiring than just having untrained high schoolers. Plenty of camps had really great staff able to handle a lot, good with kids of all types. OTOH “SN” camps can be their own thing and can exclude kids that don’t fit their particular profile.

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Anonymous wrote:Op here - whoops, this thread went off the rails.

Anyway my question was whether it was worth telling the camp that this approach gave my kid a panic attack. I guess I wasn’t clear in my wording. Apologies for starting a flame war.

In the end, I had a 2 min chat about autism, panic attacks and sensory issues and everything was fine after that. Yes, it was disclosed to camp that DD has ASD. Inclusion and all.

And ASD DD was not the child misbehaving. It was another kid. Too much chaos, loud sounds, and being worried about the other kid was going to jump on her - set her into her version of an ASD meltdown —- which is covering her ears, cowering in a corner and rocking. She’s pretty good at holding it together in public but sometimes it’s too much.

My kid is 100% honest to a fault - it’s one of her ASD traits. We were able to dissect the situation this morning to help kid understand what may have triggered her panic and what kid can do next time they feel overwhelmed.

I’m pretty sure there were some trolls having a bit of fun with their interpretation of Autism on this thread. But, for those who “get it” thank you. It’s hard navigating a world that touts inclusion but then says “you are the problem” when you ask for a small accommodation because of your disability.

It’s kind of like saying “people in wheelchairs shouldn’t get access to ramps or elevators because it’s their fault they can’t walk up a flight of stairs.” No! That’s why we fought so hard for the Americans with Disabilities Act.

Ok, now tell me I’m a bad parent because I helped my 8 yr old. I mean it’s not like autism comes with communication challenges…oh wait, it does…

Thanks for the follow up. I don’t think it is unreasonable to ask for a quiet space for her if she gets overwhelmed especially if they bill themselves as inclusive. I’m glad she is going back. She should not be punished for getting overwhelmed. That said, I don’t think you can expect camp will be free of noise and chaos.

Op here - thank you. The accommodation was to allow her to take a break and do a quiet activity like coloring for a few minutes if she felt overwhelmed. There was no expectation on other kids accommodating or not being typical kids.

A NT camp does not have the staff to watch your child during a meltdown. This accommodation should never have been requested.

The camp billed itself as “inclusive” per OP. And letting a child do a quiet activity is not a massive burden. Maybe you should ask yourself why you feel the need to make comments like this.

What does inclusive even mean at this point? I wouldn’t read inclusive and think that they can accommodate ND kids whose needs are greater than NT kids. Unless they spell out what they mean by inclusive consider it meaningless and don’t make assumptions.

Isn’t that a little absurd of them to use that term if they don’t mean it?

Inclusivity does not automatically mean additional supports. At a baseline level it means they are welcoming to everyone. It means they won’t exclude your kid from activities because they are SN. They will encourage your kid standing in the corner to play but they won’t do much beyond encourage. It means activities are designed so everyone can participate. At free time they’ll have a couple different activities to choose from and direct your kid to the best fit. If they are aware of your child’s needs it means your kid might be given occasional extra attention like being seated next to a counselor but that counselor is still likely to be an untrained teenager watching 10-20 other kids. If your kid isn’t the highest need in the group they’re likely to get no extra attention. Sometimes it means they provide a 1:1, but that’s established prior to camp. They will support you providing your own 1:1.

Inclusive camps are very different than special needs camps or even NT camps that staff 1:1 counselors. A SN camp has smaller participant numbers overall and staffs almost entirely 1:1 or 1:2 ratios of counselors plus additional involved staff. Activities are consistent, well planned and fit within the scope of abilities for most campers. Those counselors are usually a mix of older adults and college kids compared to a NT camp that’s usually a couple older adults in the background and mostly high school kids. A camp that is NT with supports is a mixture skewing older with the more experienced counselors assigned as the 1:1. Some are even able to provide the same 1:1 across years.

For a kid like OPs I would at a minimum choose NT with 1:1 supports, provided by the camp or send your own. The behavior OP described would be an outlier for a NT inclusive camp with no staffed 1:1 supports unless that child had an outside 1:1 with them.

What you describe as “inclusive” sounds like a bare minimum involved in caring for a group of young kids. NT kids also are going to like different activities, want to be encouraged to participate, etc. At this point I think we all know that “inclusive” is a marketing term or maybe designed for one of the 1 in 4 kids now claiming to be “SN” - not actually SN.

Anyway, I only ever picked camps that could actually demonstrate they were willing to talk with me and take my kids needs into account. Sometimes this meant they had an actual inclusion coordinator and sometimes it meant they had a reputation of being good with SN (although not a SN school). And quality camps even if not “inclusive” do a better job of hiring than just having untrained high schoolers. Plenty of camps had really great staff able to handle a lot, good with kids of all types. OTOH “SN” camps can be their own thing and can exclude kids that don’t fit their particular profile.

I wish I could tell you that’s basic minimum for all camps but you have no idea how bad it can get. Definitely vet the camp and don’t be afraid to pull your kid out or send additional supports if it’s a poor fit.