Camp fail - give feedback or not?

[Anonymous]

I am surprised at people who think this was a good approach. Having them sit for a small amount of time to calm down is fine, threatening campers with school work is weird and inappropriate.


It’s probably not ideal, but camps are staffed by HS and college kids. If the kids are running around and being unsafe or disruptive, I don’t think it’s that big a deal that a counselor would say something like that.

Yes, I understand that, my son is an almost 17 year old camp counselor. It's a tough job. However, it's not a normal thing to say - camp's wouldn't assign school work, nor should school work be characterized as a punishment. He has "threatened" to call kid's parents, but I don't view that as a threat since it was something he was considering doing due to the level of the behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds as though you have a very clear sense of what you think happened, but I am concerned that you might be only hearing it from your kid's point of view, or you might be making assumptions and filling things in with your imagination.

As a special ed teacher, I often have parents who will call me and explain to me why something happened when they actually don't even know what happened, and their explanation doesn't match the events.

Did the meltdown happen at camp? If so, if it ended in a way that didn't come to the camp leadership's attention, and didn't result in your kid wanting to stay home, then I would take that as a win.

If the meltdown did come to the camp leadership's attention, then I would assume that they are already coaching the counselor. If they didn't exclude your child, or demand a meeting, then they must be confident that they have strategies that will work in the context of the group.

If you want to talk to them, I'd go in understanding that part autism, particularly in young children, is a distorted understanding of social situations, and that there may have been very good reasons why they asked the kids to sit rather than moving to a more physical activity. Asking kids to do something that's incompatible with unsafe behavior (e.g. asking a kid running around to sit down) is a pretty common strategy with both children and with people with ASD.

So, if the meltdown rose to the level that there were safety issues, I would go in with an open mind and say "I'd love to know more about this incident, so that we can figure out what skills and knowledge to target going forward. Can you tell me more about what happened?"

I'm also going to say that suggesting that a kid who is willing to go back into a situation stay home has the potential to backfire.

This is all really excellent perspective - thank you and I hope you comment more here! My only caveat is that sometimes the child actually does have a valid additional perspective of the facts that the teacher does not have. This doesn’t mean that the upshot is any different (kid may not have coping skills required for the setting) but plenty of times my kid was able to fill in more details about what actually happened when the teacher just said “he just snapped all of a sudden!” Kids on the spectrum are usually pretty honest so they are not going to actually lie even if their perspective is partial. You may work with younger kids or less verbal kids than mine though.

PP you quoted, I absolutely agree that we need to listen to kids’ perspectives. I am not thinking about situations where kids lie, and not accusing OP’s kid of lying. I am thinking that OP’s kid is speaking from their perspective. I can give some examples from my own experience.

We are lined up to go outside on a hot day, when I hear one of my kids with asthma cough. I need a moment to figure out if this is something I can act on so I ask the class to stop, but when I do they are too loud for me to hear, so I ask the kids to sit down, which in my experience lowers the volume, I have a quick whispered conversation with the asthmatic kid, determine that it was just a sip from the water bottle that went down wrong, and we are ready to go. NT kids pick up that something was wrong, they heard a note of tension in my voice or noticed I kept one kid standing and focused on them, and correctly assumed I was addressing something with that kid. Autistic kid thinks this a group punishment and that I am favoring this kid, and they start to meltdown. Dealing with that meltdown takes 10 minutes and suddenly kids are sitting longer than is reasonable and outside time is shortened, because we still need to be back inside in time to eat lunch and change for the pool.

Kid goes home and reports from their perspective “We were in the hallway and A, B, and C were being loud so we all had to sit down, except Larla, It was so unfair! We lost half our outside time!” Kid isn’t lying. People were being loud and it was a factor, and they did miss half of outside time. But parent hears that and complains, and suggests solutions that wouldn’t work. “If they were being loud, you should have gone out faster, because it was a sign they need to move” (misses the fact that counselor needed quiet to check on the kid, and that taking an asthmatic kid outside in the heat during an attack can be unsafe) or “if you’re going to make them sit, the least you can do is make everyone sit” (which ignores that counselor needed to talk quietly with asthmatic kid) or “Recess should NEVER be cut short” (going to the pool is a good reason to end recess).

Thanks for that additional info - I agree is sounds like a dynamic I can imagine. But I’m talking about incidents like the time the principal complained that my DS wrote on a piece of paper about how very mad he was in … colorful terms. I asked my DS and he reported “Mr X told me to write down what I feel, so I did!” to hear the admin say it, my DS just decided to write totally inappropriate things out of the blue. Nobody was wrong here but I needed to get both sides of the story! (and before the insane trolls get here - no, the moral of my story is not that my DS gets to write whatever he wants. My response was to just remind the school that DS will take things very literally; and remind DS that he always needs to mind his language.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A bunch of hyper children becomes a safety issue very quickly. No problem making them sit down and regroup. Your child should NOT be having meltdowns beyond the age of 4- this is not an “autistic thing”, it’s just a bad parenting thing. Your kid is not ready for summer camp, stop blaming the counselor for that and FFS teach your kid not to tantrum.

Did you forget that you were posting in the Kids with Special Needs forum. Here, we are kind and respectful to one another.

We’re also honest, it’s not normal for an autistic child to meltdown. It’s indicative of parenting issues.

You need to GTFO with this post. You must be a troll. My autistic teen doesn’t misbehave and never has, but she will have internal meltdowns. And I have experience with multiple autistic families and their kids - emotional dysregulation is literally a part of the diagnosis.

Meltdowns “emotional dysregulation” is NOT diagnostic criteria for autism. It’s just not. Maybe your kid is bipolar.

Meltdowns are extremely common in autism.

What are you even doing here? go away.

They’re common in kids with parents that blame poor behavior on autism, they are NOT part of autism.

Yes they are. I don’t even know what you think you are talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A bunch of hyper children becomes a safety issue very quickly. No problem making them sit down and regroup. Your child should NOT be having meltdowns beyond the age of 4- this is not an “autistic thing”, it’s just a bad parenting thing. Your kid is not ready for summer camp, stop blaming the counselor for that and FFS teach your kid not to tantrum.

Did you forget that you were posting in the Kids with Special Needs forum. Here, we are kind and respectful to one another.

We’re also honest, it’s not normal for an autistic child to meltdown. It’s indicative of parenting issues.

You need to GTFO with this post. You must be a troll. My autistic teen doesn’t misbehave and never has, but she will have internal meltdowns. And I have experience with multiple autistic families and their kids - emotional dysregulation is literally a part of the diagnosis.

Meltdowns “emotional dysregulation” is NOT diagnostic criteria for autism. It’s just not. Maybe your kid is bipolar.

Meltdowns are extremely common in autism.

What are you even doing here? go away.

They’re common in kids with parents that blame poor behavior on autism, they are NOT part of autism.

Yes they are. I don’t even know what you think you are talking about.

Lady you said meltdowns are a diagnostic criteria for autism. This simply is NOT true. Go look it up yourself. If your kid’s having meltdowns you need to address the actual issue rather than blanket blaming it on ASD. I do know what I’m talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A bunch of hyper children becomes a safety issue very quickly. No problem making them sit down and regroup. Your child should NOT be having meltdowns beyond the age of 4- this is not an “autistic thing”, it’s just a bad parenting thing. Your kid is not ready for summer camp, stop blaming the counselor for that and FFS teach your kid not to tantrum.

Did you forget that you were posting in the Kids with Special Needs forum. Here, we are kind and respectful to one another.

We’re also honest, it’s not normal for an autistic child to meltdown. It’s indicative of parenting issues.

You need to GTFO with this post. You must be a troll. My autistic teen doesn’t misbehave and never has, but she will have internal meltdowns. And I have experience with multiple autistic families and their kids - emotional dysregulation is literally a part of the diagnosis.

Meltdowns “emotional dysregulation” is NOT diagnostic criteria for autism. It’s just not. Maybe your kid is bipolar.

Meltdowns are extremely common in autism.

What are you even doing here? go away.

They’re common in kids with parents that blame poor behavior on autism, they are NOT part of autism.

Yes they are. I don’t even know what you think you are talking about.

Lady you said meltdowns are a diagnostic criteria for autism. This simply is NOT true. Go look it up yourself. If your kid’s having meltdowns you need to address the actual issue rather than blanket blaming it on ASD. I do know what I’m talking about.

Rigidity is one criteria for the diagnosis and the clinical impairment piece of that is often in the form of externalizing behavior in children.

tantrums are so incredibly common in kids on the spectrum. Literally zero professionals treating kids on the spectrum would say otherwise. There is reams and reams of research on it. Why do you think so many kids on the spectrum end up on medication?

anyway here’s some reading for you: https://sparkforautism.org/discover_article/managing-emotions/

[Anonymous]

Is the camp designed and staffed to accommodate asd kids? If not, I would say you say nothing. Having worked camps, very few parents acknowledge anything about theirkid. Most of the counselors have had zero training with sn kids unless they have relatives with sn. A class can easily have multiple kids who need special/extra attention, but camps are not staffed for that. Quiet time is used throughout camps and school, and is not a punishment, but a tool for resetting the mood of the class.

[Anonymous]

Your kid was told to sit down and be quiet then he flipped out? That’s a huge problem OP. I would not send him back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A bunch of hyper children becomes a safety issue very quickly. No problem making them sit down and regroup. Your child should NOT be having meltdowns beyond the age of 4- this is not an “autistic thing”, it’s just a bad parenting thing. Your kid is not ready for summer camp, stop blaming the counselor for that and FFS teach your kid not to tantrum.

Did you forget that you were posting in the Kids with Special Needs forum. Here, we are kind and respectful to one another.

We’re also honest, it’s not normal for an autistic child to meltdown. It’s indicative of parenting issues.

You need to GTFO with this post. You must be a troll. My autistic teen doesn’t misbehave and never has, but she will have internal meltdowns. And I have experience with multiple autistic families and their kids - emotional dysregulation is literally a part of the diagnosis.

Meltdowns “emotional dysregulation” is NOT diagnostic criteria for autism. It’s just not. Maybe your kid is bipolar.

Meltdowns are extremely common in autism.

What are you even doing here? go away.

They’re common in kids with parents that blame poor behavior on autism, they are NOT part of autism.

Yes they are. I don’t even know what you think you are talking about.

Lady you said meltdowns are a diagnostic criteria for autism. This simply is NOT true. Go look it up yourself. If your kid’s having meltdowns you need to address the actual issue rather than blanket blaming it on ASD. I do know what I’m talking about.

Rigidity is one criteria for the diagnosis and the clinical impairment piece of that is often in the form of externalizing behavior in children.

tantrums are so incredibly common in kids on the spectrum. Literally zero professionals treating kids on the spectrum would say otherwise. There is reams and reams of research on it. Why do you think so many kids on the spectrum end up on medication?

anyway here’s some reading for you: https://sparkforautism.org/discover_article/managing-emotions/

Rigidity and meltdowns are not the same thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A bunch of hyper children becomes a safety issue very quickly. No problem making them sit down and regroup. Your child should NOT be having meltdowns beyond the age of 4- this is not an “autistic thing”, it’s just a bad parenting thing. Your kid is not ready for summer camp, stop blaming the counselor for that and FFS teach your kid not to tantrum.

Did you forget that you were posting in the Kids with Special Needs forum. Here, we are kind and respectful to one another.

We’re also honest, it’s not normal for an autistic child to meltdown. It’s indicative of parenting issues.

You need to GTFO with this post. You must be a troll. My autistic teen doesn’t misbehave and never has, but she will have internal meltdowns. And I have experience with multiple autistic families and their kids - emotional dysregulation is literally a part of the diagnosis.

Meltdowns “emotional dysregulation” is NOT diagnostic criteria for autism. It’s just not. Maybe your kid is bipolar.

Meltdowns are extremely common in autism.

What are you even doing here? go away.

They’re common in kids with parents that blame poor behavior on autism, they are NOT part of autism.

Yes they are. I don’t even know what you think you are talking about.

Lady you said meltdowns are a diagnostic criteria for autism. This simply is NOT true. Go look it up yourself. If your kid’s having meltdowns you need to address the actual issue rather than blanket blaming it on ASD. I do know what I’m talking about.

Rigidity is one criteria for the diagnosis and the clinical impairment piece of that is often in the form of externalizing behavior in children.

tantrums are so incredibly common in kids on the spectrum. Literally zero professionals treating kids on the spectrum would say otherwise. There is reams and reams of research on it. Why do you think so many kids on the spectrum end up on medication?

anyway here’s some reading for you: https://sparkforautism.org/discover_article/managing-emotions/

Medication is rarely used for children with autism. Only 2 medications are approved for ASD and it’s quite uncommon to utilize these. They’re mostly used in residential care settings when problem behaviors are extreme, older children where other methods weren’t reliable, briefly used during puberty, and/ or if multiple diagnoses are present such as ODD, bipolar, psychotic disorder, etc. You should not be drugging a young child with a sole ASD diagnosis without first trying other interventions and/ or exploring other diagnoses. Meds should always be a last resort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A bunch of hyper children becomes a safety issue very quickly. No problem making them sit down and regroup. Your child should NOT be having meltdowns beyond the age of 4- this is not an “autistic thing”, it’s just a bad parenting thing. Your kid is not ready for summer camp, stop blaming the counselor for that and FFS teach your kid not to tantrum.

Did you forget that you were posting in the Kids with Special Needs forum. Here, we are kind and respectful to one another.

We’re also honest, it’s not normal for an autistic child to meltdown. It’s indicative of parenting issues.

You need to GTFO with this post. You must be a troll. My autistic teen doesn’t misbehave and never has, but she will have internal meltdowns. And I have experience with multiple autistic families and their kids - emotional dysregulation is literally a part of the diagnosis.

Meltdowns “emotional dysregulation” is NOT diagnostic criteria for autism. It’s just not. Maybe your kid is bipolar.

Meltdowns are extremely common in autism.

What are you even doing here? go away.

They’re common in kids with parents that blame poor behavior on autism, they are NOT part of autism.

Yes they are. I don’t even know what you think you are talking about.

Lady you said meltdowns are a diagnostic criteria for autism. This simply is NOT true. Go look it up yourself. If your kid’s having meltdowns you need to address the actual issue rather than blanket blaming it on ASD. I do know what I’m talking about.

Rigidity is one criteria for the diagnosis and the clinical impairment piece of that is often in the form of externalizing behavior in children.

tantrums are so incredibly common in kids on the spectrum. Literally zero professionals treating kids on the spectrum would say otherwise. There is reams and reams of research on it. Why do you think so many kids on the spectrum end up on medication?

anyway here’s some reading for you: https://sparkforautism.org/discover_article/managing-emotions/

Rigidity and meltdowns are not the same thing.

The rigidity is what sparks the meltdowns. The DSM criteria include this: “ Insistence on sameness, inflexible adherence to routines, or ritualized patterns or verbal nonverbal behavior (e.g., extreme distress at small changes, difficulties with transitions”

Not all kids on the spectrum have externalizing behavior but it is frankly wholly ignorant to not know that it is common.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A bunch of hyper children becomes a safety issue very quickly. No problem making them sit down and regroup. Your child should NOT be having meltdowns beyond the age of 4- this is not an “autistic thing”, it’s just a bad parenting thing. Your kid is not ready for summer camp, stop blaming the counselor for that and FFS teach your kid not to tantrum.

Did you forget that you were posting in the Kids with Special Needs forum. Here, we are kind and respectful to one another.

We’re also honest, it’s not normal for an autistic child to meltdown. It’s indicative of parenting issues.

You need to GTFO with this post. You must be a troll. My autistic teen doesn’t misbehave and never has, but she will have internal meltdowns. And I have experience with multiple autistic families and their kids - emotional dysregulation is literally a part of the diagnosis.

Meltdowns “emotional dysregulation” is NOT diagnostic criteria for autism. It’s just not. Maybe your kid is bipolar.

Meltdowns are extremely common in autism.

What are you even doing here? go away.

They’re common in kids with parents that blame poor behavior on autism, they are NOT part of autism.

Yes they are. I don’t even know what you think you are talking about.

Lady you said meltdowns are a diagnostic criteria for autism. This simply is NOT true. Go look it up yourself. If your kid’s having meltdowns you need to address the actual issue rather than blanket blaming it on ASD. I do know what I’m talking about.

Rigidity is one criteria for the diagnosis and the clinical impairment piece of that is often in the form of externalizing behavior in children.

tantrums are so incredibly common in kids on the spectrum. Literally zero professionals treating kids on the spectrum would say otherwise. There is reams and reams of research on it. Why do you think so many kids on the spectrum end up on medication?

anyway here’s some reading for you: https://sparkforautism.org/discover_article/managing-emotions/

Medication is rarely used for children with autism. Only 2 medications are approved for ASD and it’s quite uncommon to utilize these. They’re mostly used in residential care settings when problem behaviors are extreme, older children where other methods weren’t reliable, briefly used during puberty, and/ or if multiple diagnoses are present such as ODD, bipolar, psychotic disorder, etc. You should not be drugging a young child with a sole ASD diagnosis without first trying other interventions and/ or exploring other diagnoses. Meds should always be a last resort.

You just keep on showing how poorly informed you are. Many kids on the spectrum are medicated and the most common reason is behaviors like tantrums and aggression. I’m sure parents who have tried everything are really happy to be reminded by you to try therapy first.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10294139/

[Anonymous]

Today I learned that behavioral issues of kids with autism have nothing to do with autism. wow what a great place this is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A bunch of hyper children becomes a safety issue very quickly. No problem making them sit down and regroup. Your child should NOT be having meltdowns beyond the age of 4- this is not an “autistic thing”, it’s just a bad parenting thing. Your kid is not ready for summer camp, stop blaming the counselor for that and FFS teach your kid not to tantrum.

Did you forget that you were posting in the Kids with Special Needs forum. Here, we are kind and respectful to one another.

We’re also honest, it’s not normal for an autistic child to meltdown. It’s indicative of parenting issues.

You need to GTFO with this post. You must be a troll. My autistic teen doesn’t misbehave and never has, but she will have internal meltdowns. And I have experience with multiple autistic families and their kids - emotional dysregulation is literally a part of the diagnosis.

Meltdowns “emotional dysregulation” is NOT diagnostic criteria for autism. It’s just not. Maybe your kid is bipolar.

Meltdowns are extremely common in autism.

What are you even doing here? go away.

They’re common in kids with parents that blame poor behavior on autism, they are NOT part of autism.

Yes they are. I don’t even know what you think you are talking about.

Lady you said meltdowns are a diagnostic criteria for autism. This simply is NOT true. Go look it up yourself. If your kid’s having meltdowns you need to address the actual issue rather than blanket blaming it on ASD. I do know what I’m talking about.

Rigidity is one criteria for the diagnosis and the clinical impairment piece of that is often in the form of externalizing behavior in children.

tantrums are so incredibly common in kids on the spectrum. Literally zero professionals treating kids on the spectrum would say otherwise. There is reams and reams of research on it. Why do you think so many kids on the spectrum end up on medication?

anyway here’s some reading for you: https://sparkforautism.org/discover_article/managing-emotions/

Rigidity and meltdowns are not the same thing.

The rigidity is what sparks the meltdowns. The DSM criteria include this: “ Insistence on sameness, inflexible adherence to routines, or ritualized patterns or verbal nonverbal behavior (e.g., extreme distress at small changes, difficulties with transitions”

Not all kids on the spectrum have externalizing behavior but it is frankly wholly ignorant to not know that it is common.

What’s ignorant is blaming meltdowns on ASD.

I mean I literally quoted the DSM to you and could post hundreds of research papers on this. I just find you so odd. what is your possible agenda?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It sounds as though you have a very clear sense of what you think happened, but I am concerned that you might be only hearing it from your kid's point of view, or you might be making assumptions and filling things in with your imagination.

As a special ed teacher, I often have parents who will call me and explain to me why something happened when they actually don't even know what happened, and their explanation doesn't match the events.

Did the meltdown happen at camp? If so, if it ended in a way that didn't come to the camp leadership's attention, and didn't result in your kid wanting to stay home, then I would take that as a win.

If the meltdown did come to the camp leadership's attention, then I would assume that they are already coaching the counselor. If they didn't exclude your child, or demand a meeting, then they must be confident that they have strategies that will work in the context of the group.

If you want to talk to them, I'd go in understanding that part autism, particularly in young children, is a distorted understanding of social situations, and that there may have been very good reasons why they asked the kids to sit rather than moving to a more physical activity. Asking kids to do something that's incompatible with unsafe behavior (e.g. asking a kid running around to sit down) is a pretty common strategy with both children and with people with ASD.

So, if the meltdown rose to the level that there were safety issues, I would go in with an open mind and say "I'd love to know more about this incident, so that we can figure out what skills and knowledge to target going forward. Can you tell me more about what happened?"

I'm also going to say that suggesting that a kid who is willing to go back into a situation stay home has the potential to backfire.

It is truly insane to me how many parents don't approach things this way. Why would you ever assume you have all the information based only on what your kid told you? Yet most parents do.

Always, always, always approach any issue the way suggested above. I'd love to talk to you more about what happened today at recess to get a better understanding of what happened and what we can do to move forward and help Jimmy.

[Anonymous]

We just had this conversation at home about giving feedback to the head of camp about the camp counselor. Our NT kid came back from sleepaway camp upset about similar stuff. It’s similar situations as OP, things where no one was in physical harm but not okay including making fun of the kids when they thought they couldn’t hear. I was in favor of emailing the head of the camp to try to get them to speak to the counselors for future sessions.

The rest of my family disagreed. DH adamantly told me to not do anything and so did my kid. Both said nothing would change and these are people not paid a lot and no one was hurt. I tend to lean on the side of being an overprotective mom. DH tends to tell them to toughen up too much.

I still think an email should be sent and think OP should send one too.