Camp fail - give feedback or not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A bunch of hyper children becomes a safety issue very quickly. No problem making them sit down and regroup. Your child should NOT be having meltdowns beyond the age of 4- this is not an “autistic thing”, it’s just a bad parenting thing. Your kid is not ready for summer camp, stop blaming the counselor for that and FFS teach your kid not to tantrum.

Did you forget that you were posting in the Kids with Special Needs forum. Here, we are kind and respectful to one another.

We’re also honest, it’s not normal for an autistic child to meltdown. It’s indicative of parenting issues.

You need to GTFO with this post. You must be a troll. My autistic teen doesn’t misbehave and never has, but she will have internal meltdowns. And I have experience with multiple autistic families and their kids - emotional dysregulation is literally a part of the diagnosis.

The trolling on this thread is wild. For all the people claiming only bad kids act out, they sure are extremely triggered by a kid having a meltdown at camp.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When we were kids, we behaved. Or got in trouble. Now, kids don't behave. And when they get in trouble, kids feel oppressed and parents complain.

The camp counselor wasn't wrong. But if some of the kids are wild, it may not be a good place for your DC, regardless of the counselor or consequences.

Blah blah blah every generation says this garbage

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
This is all really excellent perspective - thank you and I hope you comment more here! My only caveat is that sometimes the child actually does have a valid additional perspective of the facts that the teacher does not have. This doesn’t mean that the upshot is any different (kid may not have coping skills required for the setting) but plenty of times my kid was able to fill in more details about what actually happened when the teacher just said “he just snapped all of a sudden!” Kids on the spectrum are usually pretty honest so they are not going to actually lie even if their perspective is partial. You may work with younger kids or less verbal kids than mine though.

DP. Honest? Yes. Self-absorbed or self-centered and oblivious, also yes; that's what social and communication difficulties means. It means not understanding what is going on around you, and how it relates to you, and how you relate to it.

Your DC can tell you their perspective. But don't mistake that for what actually happened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When we were kids, we behaved. Or got in trouble. Now, kids don't behave. And when they get in trouble, kids feel oppressed and parents complain.

The camp counselor wasn't wrong. But if some of the kids are wild, it may not be a good place for your DC, regardless of the counselor or consequences.

Blah blah blah every generation says this garbage

No, kids really are different now. You can acknowledge it or deny it. That's your choice. Doesn't change things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This is all really excellent perspective - thank you and I hope you comment more here! My only caveat is that sometimes the child actually does have a valid additional perspective of the facts that the teacher does not have. This doesn’t mean that the upshot is any different (kid may not have coping skills required for the setting) but plenty of times my kid was able to fill in more details about what actually happened when the teacher just said “he just snapped all of a sudden!” Kids on the spectrum are usually pretty honest so they are not going to actually lie even if their perspective is partial. You may work with younger kids or less verbal kids than mine though.

DP. Honest? Yes. Self-absorbed or self-centered and oblivious, also yes; that's what social and communication difficulties means. It means not understanding what is going on around you, and how it relates to you, and how you relate to it.

Your DC can tell you their perspective. But don't mistake that for what actually happened.

Is this a thread about bashing autism? Nope, you may take that elsewhere.

Kids on the spectrum are very honest and forthright about what they see/did. Being literal is almost part of the dx. You have a really weird viewpoint about what autism is or is not. My kid may not always understand what other people are thinking about him and may have a hard time expressing his feelings, but he can perceive events and tell me about them accurately. I feel like it is actually more common for NT people to misinterpret what kids on the spectrum do, because they assume, eg, that awkwardness is deliberate rudeness; stims are deliberately annoying; etc.

[Anonymous]

I would give feedback. If the counselor is a teenager, she may genuinely not realize that wasn't the best approach for any kids.

[Anonymous]

Counselor over reacted and punished the whole group making them sit silently in a corner and threatening them with school work.

I am surprised at people who think this was a good approach. Having them sit for a small amount of time to calm down is fine, threatening campers with school work is weird and inappropriate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This is all really excellent perspective - thank you and I hope you comment more here! My only caveat is that sometimes the child actually does have a valid additional perspective of the facts that the teacher does not have. This doesn’t mean that the upshot is any different (kid may not have coping skills required for the setting) but plenty of times my kid was able to fill in more details about what actually happened when the teacher just said “he just snapped all of a sudden!” Kids on the spectrum are usually pretty honest so they are not going to actually lie even if their perspective is partial. You may work with younger kids or less verbal kids than mine though.

DP. Honest? Yes. Self-absorbed or self-centered and oblivious, also yes; that's what social and communication difficulties means. It means not understanding what is going on around you, and how it relates to you, and how you relate to it.

Your DC can tell you their perspective. But don't mistake that for what actually happened.

Is this a thread about bashing autism? Nope, you may take that elsewhere.

Kids on the spectrum are very honest and forthright about what they see/did. Being literal is almost part of the dx. You have a really weird viewpoint about what autism is or is not. My kid may not always understand what other people are thinking about him and may have a hard time expressing his feelings, but he can perceive events and tell me about them accurately. I feel like it is actually more common for NT people to misinterpret what kids on the spectrum do, because they assume, eg, that awkwardness is deliberate rudeness; stims are deliberately annoying; etc.

I have a DC with ASD and am borderline myself (one of those adult women who could write a blog about my self-diagnosis). You may want to do some more reading about autism and what it means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A bunch of hyper children becomes a safety issue very quickly. No problem making them sit down and regroup. Your child should NOT be having meltdowns beyond the age of 4- this is not an “autistic thing”, it’s just a bad parenting thing. Your kid is not ready for summer camp, stop blaming the counselor for that and FFS teach your kid not to tantrum.

Did you forget that you were posting in the Kids with Special Needs forum. Here, we are kind and respectful to one another.

We’re also honest, it’s not normal for an autistic child to meltdown. It’s indicative of parenting issues.

You need to GTFO with this post. You must be a troll. My autistic teen doesn’t misbehave and never has, but she will have internal meltdowns. And I have experience with multiple autistic families and their kids - emotional dysregulation is literally a part of the diagnosis.

The trolling on this thread is wild. For all the people claiming only bad kids act out, they sure are extremely triggered by a kid having a meltdown at camp.

Kids having meltdowns should not be allowed at camp.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A bunch of hyper children becomes a safety issue very quickly. No problem making them sit down and regroup. Your child should NOT be having meltdowns beyond the age of 4- this is not an “autistic thing”, it’s just a bad parenting thing. Your kid is not ready for summer camp, stop blaming the counselor for that and FFS teach your kid not to tantrum.

Did you forget that you were posting in the Kids with Special Needs forum. Here, we are kind and respectful to one another.

We’re also honest, it’s not normal for an autistic child to meltdown. It’s indicative of parenting issues.

You need to GTFO with this post. You must be a troll. My autistic teen doesn’t misbehave and never has, but she will have internal meltdowns. And I have experience with multiple autistic families and their kids - emotional dysregulation is literally a part of the diagnosis.

Meltdowns “emotional dysregulation” is NOT diagnostic criteria for autism. It’s just not. Maybe your kid is bipolar.

Meltdowns are extremely common in autism.

What are you even doing here? go away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds as though you have a very clear sense of what you think happened, but I am concerned that you might be only hearing it from your kid's point of view, or you might be making assumptions and filling things in with your imagination.

As a special ed teacher, I often have parents who will call me and explain to me why something happened when they actually don't even know what happened, and their explanation doesn't match the events.

Did the meltdown happen at camp? If so, if it ended in a way that didn't come to the camp leadership's attention, and didn't result in your kid wanting to stay home, then I would take that as a win.

If the meltdown did come to the camp leadership's attention, then I would assume that they are already coaching the counselor. If they didn't exclude your child, or demand a meeting, then they must be confident that they have strategies that will work in the context of the group.

If you want to talk to them, I'd go in understanding that part autism, particularly in young children, is a distorted understanding of social situations, and that there may have been very good reasons why they asked the kids to sit rather than moving to a more physical activity. Asking kids to do something that's incompatible with unsafe behavior (e.g. asking a kid running around to sit down) is a pretty common strategy with both children and with people with ASD.

So, if the meltdown rose to the level that there were safety issues, I would go in with an open mind and say "I'd love to know more about this incident, so that we can figure out what skills and knowledge to target going forward. Can you tell me more about what happened?"

I'm also going to say that suggesting that a kid who is willing to go back into a situation stay home has the potential to backfire.

This is all really excellent perspective - thank you and I hope you comment more here! My only caveat is that sometimes the child actually does have a valid additional perspective of the facts that the teacher does not have. This doesn’t mean that the upshot is any different (kid may not have coping skills required for the setting) but plenty of times my kid was able to fill in more details about what actually happened when the teacher just said “he just snapped all of a sudden!” Kids on the spectrum are usually pretty honest so they are not going to actually lie even if their perspective is partial. You may work with younger kids or less verbal kids than mine though.

PP you quoted, I absolutely agree that we need to listen to kids’ perspectives. I am not thinking about situations where kids lie, and not accusing OP’s kid of lying. I am thinking that OP’s kid is speaking from their perspective. I can give some examples from my own experience.

We are lined up to go outside on a hot day, when I hear one of my kids with asthma cough. I need a moment to figure out if this is something I can act on so I ask the class to stop, but when I do they are too loud for me to hear, so I ask the kids to sit down, which in my experience lowers the volume, I have a quick whispered conversation with the asthmatic kid, determine that it was just a sip from the water bottle that went down wrong, and we are ready to go. NT kids pick up that something was wrong, they heard a note of tension in my voice or noticed I kept one kid standing and focused on them, and correctly assumed I was addressing something with that kid. Autistic kid thinks this a group punishment and that I am favoring this kid, and they start to meltdown. Dealing with that meltdown takes 10 minutes and suddenly kids are sitting longer than is reasonable and outside time is shortened, because we still need to be back inside in time to eat lunch and change for the pool.

Kid goes home and reports from their perspective “We were in the hallway and A, B, and C were being loud so we all had to sit down, except Larla, It was so unfair! We lost half our outside time!” Kid isn’t lying. People were being loud and it was a factor, and they did miss half of outside time. But parent hears that and complains, and suggests solutions that wouldn’t work. “If they were being loud, you should have gone out faster, because it was a sign they need to move” (misses the fact that counselor needed quiet to check on the kid, and that taking an asthmatic kid outside in the heat during an attack can be unsafe) or “if you’re going to make them sit, the least you can do is make everyone sit” (which ignores that counselor needed to talk quietly with asthmatic kid) or “Recess should NEVER be cut short” (going to the pool is a good reason to end recess).

[Anonymous]

I think it is fine to constructively raise that this approach does not work for your daughter with her disability. I would probably leave it at that and not characterize it as a "camp fail."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Counselor over reacted and punished the whole group making them sit silently in a corner and threatening them with school work.

I am surprised at people who think this was a good approach. Having them sit for a small amount of time to calm down is fine, threatening campers with school work is weird and inappropriate.

It’s probably not ideal, but camps are staffed by HS and college kids. If the kids are running around and being unsafe or disruptive, I don’t think it’s that big a deal that a counselor would say something like that. If OP’s child cannot tolerate that, then it probably is not a great setting for her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Counselor over reacted and punished the whole group making them sit silently in a corner and threatening them with school work.

I am surprised at people who think this was a good approach. Having them sit for a small amount of time to calm down is fine, threatening campers with school work is weird and inappropriate.

It really depends on what was actually said.

[Anonymous]

You run the risk of the camp saying they cannot accommodate your daughter’s needs. Your daughter seems to be bouncing back. She will often encounter this in life. Let her know how proud you are of her resilience.