Israel war today vs 1900s-1948

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One example is the inability of Israelis of European descent to pronounce the letter “ח”(chet). It is supposed to be pronounced as a distinct, guttural sound different from the standard "h" sound of the letter “ה”(hey). This guttural sound is common in Semitic languages like Hebrew and Arabic where the sound is “ح”

Yiddish, influenced by Germanic languages, lacks the guttural ח sound, and speakers often approximated it as a softer "h.”

When Hebrew was created as a spoken language in the late 19th primarily by Ashkenazi Jews in Europe, the pronunciation of ח was influenced by the the German "ch" in "Bach") was adopted as the standard.

DC folks when you listen to an Amharic (Semitic language) speaker you will notice this sound come up a lot and why Semitic people poke fun at Israelis inability to pronounce the “ח” (chet) sound and replace it with “ch.”

What? Israeli Hebrew does pronounce chet differently from hey. I don't know how it's pronounced in Arabic or Amharic, but I also don't know why you'd expect Hebrew to use the same pronunciation as two other languages do.

Amharic, Arabic, Somali, and other Semitic languages are the closest to the ancient Hebrew spoken language.

So your point here obviously is that Jews have no connection to the Middle East and in fact they're all just Germans, great, fine, you're a brilliant logician. So what? What does that have to do with how to get Israel to stop bombing Gaza today?

I did not say that.

I have presented linguistic facts and you are free to make your own deductions but do not put words in my mouth.

Okay, what was your point, then? It’s definitely true that the original Jewish immigrants to what’s now Israel spoke different languages (though some Jews already lived there). I don’t think even the craziest apocalyptic settlers would dispute that. But so what? What does that have to do with (a) whether they should have moved there then or (b) what’s happening today?

As for “go back to East Berlin” comments like the one from one PP, I happen to think the Holocaust is used inappropriately by Israeli politicians to fend off criticism. But I will say it’s also not that hard to figure out why there was a desire on the part of Jews and European powers alike to relocate surviving Jews outside of Europe right after the war. (There was also a desire on the part of European powers to relocate Jews long BEFORE the war, but that’s equally irrelevant to what a political solution to today’s problems looks like.)

That’s true that they needed a place after WW2.

The question is—in 2025 does the State of Israel make world wide Jews safe?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let's go back to Babylonian days and retrace the aggressions and wars since that time in the Middle East. There are no innocent parties or groups.

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's go back to Babylonian days and retrace the aggressions and wars since that time in the Middle East. There are no innocent parties or groups.

Exactly.

+1 yes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One example is the inability of Israelis of European descent to pronounce the letter “ח”(chet). It is supposed to be pronounced as a distinct, guttural sound different from the standard "h" sound of the letter “ה”(hey). This guttural sound is common in Semitic languages like Hebrew and Arabic where the sound is “ح”

Yiddish, influenced by Germanic languages, lacks the guttural ח sound, and speakers often approximated it as a softer "h.”

When Hebrew was created as a spoken language in the late 19th primarily by Ashkenazi Jews in Europe, the pronunciation of ח was influenced by the the German "ch" in "Bach") was adopted as the standard.

DC folks when you listen to an Amharic (Semitic language) speaker you will notice this sound come up a lot and why Semitic people poke fun at Israelis inability to pronounce the “ח” (chet) sound and replace it with “ch.”

What? Israeli Hebrew does pronounce chet differently from hey. I don't know how it's pronounced in Arabic or Amharic, but I also don't know why you'd expect Hebrew to use the same pronunciation as two other languages do.

Amharic, Arabic, Somali, and other Semitic languages are the closest to the ancient Hebrew spoken language.

So your point here obviously is that Jews have no connection to the Middle East and in fact they're all just Germans, great, fine, you're a brilliant logician. So what? What does that have to do with how to get Israel to stop bombing Gaza today?

I did not say that.

I have presented linguistic facts and you are free to make your own deductions but do not put words in my mouth.

Okay, what was your point, then? It’s definitely true that the original Jewish immigrants to what’s now Israel spoke different languages (though some Jews already lived there). I don’t think even the craziest apocalyptic settlers would dispute that. But so what? What does that have to do with (a) whether they should have moved there then or (b) what’s happening today?

As for “go back to East Berlin” comments like the one from one PP, I happen to think the Holocaust is used inappropriately by Israeli politicians to fend off criticism. But I will say it’s also not that hard to figure out why there was a desire on the part of Jews and European powers alike to relocate surviving Jews outside of Europe right after the war. (There was also a desire on the part of European powers to relocate Jews long BEFORE the war, but that’s equally irrelevant to what a political solution to today’s problems looks like.)

That’s true that they needed a place after WW2.

The question is—in 2025 does the State of Israel make world wide Jews safe?

What are you trying to say? Let's get rid of Israel? Does driving out the millions of Jews who currently live there make the world more safe for Jews?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Israel has a right to exist just like apartheid South Africa and Nazi Germany.

This.

Frankly I don't care about the mere name of a country. Call it Israel, call it Palestine, call it Semiticstan, or whatever. But if you're telling me that a country (whatever you want to call it) has a right to operate an ethno-nationalist state that displaces those who don't qualify, and has different rules and laws for those who don't happen to meet the requirements of an ethno-nationalist state, then I think you are not only part of the problem, but that you're an awful human being.

A democratic state that provides equal laws, rights, opportunities and protections for all? Call it Israel, and it'd be great. But that's not what Israel is now, nor what it was created as. And I have no problem saying that Israel in it's current form should never, ever have been created and should absolutely be destroyed.

AIPAC created this monster by bribing politicians.

This +100. AIPAC has such power here in the US that we don't have the balls to go against AIPAC (it would be political suicide) to do what France, UK and Canada are doing. But any Democrat willing to stand up against AIPAC would get my vote hands down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One example is the inability of Israelis of European descent to pronounce the letter “ח”(chet). It is supposed to be pronounced as a distinct, guttural sound different from the standard "h" sound of the letter “ה”(hey). This guttural sound is common in Semitic languages like Hebrew and Arabic where the sound is “ح”

Yiddish, influenced by Germanic languages, lacks the guttural ח sound, and speakers often approximated it as a softer "h.”

When Hebrew was created as a spoken language in the late 19th primarily by Ashkenazi Jews in Europe, the pronunciation of ח was influenced by the the German "ch" in "Bach") was adopted as the standard.

DC folks when you listen to an Amharic (Semitic language) speaker you will notice this sound come up a lot and why Semitic people poke fun at Israelis inability to pronounce the “ח” (chet) sound and replace it with “ch.”

What? Israeli Hebrew does pronounce chet differently from hey. I don't know how it's pronounced in Arabic or Amharic, but I also don't know why you'd expect Hebrew to use the same pronunciation as two other languages do.

Amharic, Arabic, Somali, and other Semitic languages are the closest to the ancient Hebrew spoken language.

So your point here obviously is that Jews have no connection to the Middle East and in fact they're all just Germans, great, fine, you're a brilliant logician. So what? What does that have to do with how to get Israel to stop bombing Gaza today?

I did not say that.

I have presented linguistic facts and you are free to make your own deductions but do not put words in my mouth.

Okay, what was your point, then? It’s definitely true that the original Jewish immigrants to what’s now Israel spoke different languages (though some Jews already lived there). I don’t think even the craziest apocalyptic settlers would dispute that. But so what? What does that have to do with (a) whether they should have moved there then or (b) what’s happening today?

As for “go back to East Berlin” comments like the one from one PP, I happen to think the Holocaust is used inappropriately by Israeli politicians to fend off criticism. But I will say it’s also not that hard to figure out why there was a desire on the part of Jews and European powers alike to relocate surviving Jews outside of Europe right after the war. (There was also a desire on the part of European powers to relocate Jews long BEFORE the war, but that’s equally irrelevant to what a political solution to today’s problems looks like.)

That’s true that they needed a place after WW2.

The question is—in 2025 does the State of Israel make world wide Jews safe?

What are you trying to say? Let's get rid of Israel? Does driving out the millions of Jews who currently live there make the world more safe for Jews?

Did not say that at all. Boy you really put words in other's mouths. Try to answer the question again with some introspection.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One example is the inability of Israelis of European descent to pronounce the letter “ח”(chet). It is supposed to be pronounced as a distinct, guttural sound different from the standard "h" sound of the letter “ה”(hey). This guttural sound is common in Semitic languages like Hebrew and Arabic where the sound is “ح”

Yiddish, influenced by Germanic languages, lacks the guttural ח sound, and speakers often approximated it as a softer "h.”

When Hebrew was created as a spoken language in the late 19th primarily by Ashkenazi Jews in Europe, the pronunciation of ח was influenced by the the German "ch" in "Bach") was adopted as the standard.

DC folks when you listen to an Amharic (Semitic language) speaker you will notice this sound come up a lot and why Semitic people poke fun at Israelis inability to pronounce the “ח” (chet) sound and replace it with “ch.”

What? Israeli Hebrew does pronounce chet differently from hey. I don't know how it's pronounced in Arabic or Amharic, but I also don't know why you'd expect Hebrew to use the same pronunciation as two other languages do.

Amharic, Arabic, Somali, and other Semitic languages are the closest to the ancient Hebrew spoken language.

So your point here obviously is that Jews have no connection to the Middle East and in fact they're all just Germans, great, fine, you're a brilliant logician. So what? What does that have to do with how to get Israel to stop bombing Gaza today?

I did not say that.

I have presented linguistic facts and you are free to make your own deductions but do not put words in my mouth.

Okay, what was your point, then? It’s definitely true that the original Jewish immigrants to what’s now Israel spoke different languages (though some Jews already lived there). I don’t think even the craziest apocalyptic settlers would dispute that. But so what? What does that have to do with (a) whether they should have moved there then or (b) what’s happening today?

As for “go back to East Berlin” comments like the one from one PP, I happen to think the Holocaust is used inappropriately by Israeli politicians to fend off criticism. But I will say it’s also not that hard to figure out why there was a desire on the part of Jews and European powers alike to relocate surviving Jews outside of Europe right after the war. (There was also a desire on the part of European powers to relocate Jews long BEFORE the war, but that’s equally irrelevant to what a political solution to today’s problems looks like.)

That’s true that they needed a place after WW2.

The question is—in 2025 does the State of Israel make world wide Jews safe?

What are you trying to say? Let's get rid of Israel? Does driving out the millions of Jews who currently live there make the world more safe for Jews?

Did not say that at all. Boy you really put words in other's mouths. Try to answer the question again with some introspection.

NP here. Your question did suggest it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One example is the inability of Israelis of European descent to pronounce the letter “ח”(chet). It is supposed to be pronounced as a distinct, guttural sound different from the standard "h" sound of the letter “ה”(hey). This guttural sound is common in Semitic languages like Hebrew and Arabic where the sound is “ح”

Yiddish, influenced by Germanic languages, lacks the guttural ח sound, and speakers often approximated it as a softer "h.”

When Hebrew was created as a spoken language in the late 19th primarily by Ashkenazi Jews in Europe, the pronunciation of ח was influenced by the the German "ch" in "Bach") was adopted as the standard.

DC folks when you listen to an Amharic (Semitic language) speaker you will notice this sound come up a lot and why Semitic people poke fun at Israelis inability to pronounce the “ח” (chet) sound and replace it with “ch.”

What? Israeli Hebrew does pronounce chet differently from hey. I don't know how it's pronounced in Arabic or Amharic, but I also don't know why you'd expect Hebrew to use the same pronunciation as two other languages do.

Amharic, Arabic, Somali, and other Semitic languages are the closest to the ancient Hebrew spoken language.

So your point here obviously is that Jews have no connection to the Middle East and in fact they're all just Germans, great, fine, you're a brilliant logician. So what? What does that have to do with how to get Israel to stop bombing Gaza today?

I did not say that.

I have presented linguistic facts and you are free to make your own deductions but do not put words in my mouth.

Okay, what was your point, then? It’s definitely true that the original Jewish immigrants to what’s now Israel spoke different languages (though some Jews already lived there). I don’t think even the craziest apocalyptic settlers would dispute that. But so what? What does that have to do with (a) whether they should have moved there then or (b) what’s happening today?

As for “go back to East Berlin” comments like the one from one PP, I happen to think the Holocaust is used inappropriately by Israeli politicians to fend off criticism. But I will say it’s also not that hard to figure out why there was a desire on the part of Jews and European powers alike to relocate surviving Jews outside of Europe right after the war. (There was also a desire on the part of European powers to relocate Jews long BEFORE the war, but that’s equally irrelevant to what a political solution to today’s problems looks like.)

That’s true that they needed a place after WW2.

The question is—in 2025 does the State of Israel make world wide Jews safe?

What are you trying to say? Let's get rid of Israel? Does driving out the millions of Jews who currently live there make the world more safe for Jews?

DP

Why is driving them out unavoidable if the State of Israel is politically reorganized into an actual democratic nation state?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One example is the inability of Israelis of European descent to pronounce the letter “ח”(chet). It is supposed to be pronounced as a distinct, guttural sound different from the standard "h" sound of the letter “ה”(hey). This guttural sound is common in Semitic languages like Hebrew and Arabic where the sound is “ح”

Yiddish, influenced by Germanic languages, lacks the guttural ח sound, and speakers often approximated it as a softer "h.”

When Hebrew was created as a spoken language in the late 19th primarily by Ashkenazi Jews in Europe, the pronunciation of ח was influenced by the the German "ch" in "Bach") was adopted as the standard.

DC folks when you listen to an Amharic (Semitic language) speaker you will notice this sound come up a lot and why Semitic people poke fun at Israelis inability to pronounce the “ח” (chet) sound and replace it with “ch.”

What? Israeli Hebrew does pronounce chet differently from hey. I don't know how it's pronounced in Arabic or Amharic, but I also don't know why you'd expect Hebrew to use the same pronunciation as two other languages do.

Amharic, Arabic, Somali, and other Semitic languages are the closest to the ancient Hebrew spoken language.

So your point here obviously is that Jews have no connection to the Middle East and in fact they're all just Germans, great, fine, you're a brilliant logician. So what? What does that have to do with how to get Israel to stop bombing Gaza today?

I did not say that.

I have presented linguistic facts and you are free to make your own deductions but do not put words in my mouth.

Okay, what was your point, then? It’s definitely true that the original Jewish immigrants to what’s now Israel spoke different languages (though some Jews already lived there). I don’t think even the craziest apocalyptic settlers would dispute that. But so what? What does that have to do with (a) whether they should have moved there then or (b) what’s happening today?

As for “go back to East Berlin” comments like the one from one PP, I happen to think the Holocaust is used inappropriately by Israeli politicians to fend off criticism. But I will say it’s also not that hard to figure out why there was a desire on the part of Jews and European powers alike to relocate surviving Jews outside of Europe right after the war. (There was also a desire on the part of European powers to relocate Jews long BEFORE the war, but that’s equally irrelevant to what a political solution to today’s problems looks like.)

That’s true that they needed a place after WW2.

The question is—in 2025 does the State of Israel make world wide Jews safe?

What are you trying to say? Let's get rid of Israel? Does driving out the millions of Jews who currently live there make the world more safe for Jews?

DP

Why is driving them out unavoidable if the State of Israel is politically reorganized into an actual democratic nation state?

Because a supermajority of Israelis will not agree to it. The only way for this to happen is to militarily force it, which means the death and suffering of millions of Jews.

The experiences of Israelis have taught them not to trust the Arab world with their safety and security, and you’re never going to have this dream scenario without that trust.

Instead, the Palestinians have decided to use violence and shame campaigns as their tools. You can’t be arguing that terrorism is justified and that Israel has no right to exist and then expect the Israelis to listen to you. Whether or not you think it’s correct, demonizing Israel will not lead to a peaceful one state solution. The Israelis have to agree to it, and you’re pushing them away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One example is the inability of Israelis of European descent to pronounce the letter “ח”(chet). It is supposed to be pronounced as a distinct, guttural sound different from the standard "h" sound of the letter “ה”(hey). This guttural sound is common in Semitic languages like Hebrew and Arabic where the sound is “ح”

Yiddish, influenced by Germanic languages, lacks the guttural ח sound, and speakers often approximated it as a softer "h.”

When Hebrew was created as a spoken language in the late 19th primarily by Ashkenazi Jews in Europe, the pronunciation of ח was influenced by the the German "ch" in "Bach") was adopted as the standard.

DC folks when you listen to an Amharic (Semitic language) speaker you will notice this sound come up a lot and why Semitic people poke fun at Israelis inability to pronounce the “ח” (chet) sound and replace it with “ch.”

What? Israeli Hebrew does pronounce chet differently from hey. I don't know how it's pronounced in Arabic or Amharic, but I also don't know why you'd expect Hebrew to use the same pronunciation as two other languages do.

Amharic, Arabic, Somali, and other Semitic languages are the closest to the ancient Hebrew spoken language.

So your point here obviously is that Jews have no connection to the Middle East and in fact they're all just Germans, great, fine, you're a brilliant logician. So what? What does that have to do with how to get Israel to stop bombing Gaza today?

I did not say that.

I have presented linguistic facts and you are free to make your own deductions but do not put words in my mouth.

Okay, what was your point, then? It’s definitely true that the original Jewish immigrants to what’s now Israel spoke different languages (though some Jews already lived there). I don’t think even the craziest apocalyptic settlers would dispute that. But so what? What does that have to do with (a) whether they should have moved there then or (b) what’s happening today?

As for “go back to East Berlin” comments like the one from one PP, I happen to think the Holocaust is used inappropriately by Israeli politicians to fend off criticism. But I will say it’s also not that hard to figure out why there was a desire on the part of Jews and European powers alike to relocate surviving Jews outside of Europe right after the war. (There was also a desire on the part of European powers to relocate Jews long BEFORE the war, but that’s equally irrelevant to what a political solution to today’s problems looks like.)

That’s true that they needed a place after WW2.

The question is—in 2025 does the State of Israel make world wide Jews safe?

What are you trying to say? Let's get rid of Israel? Does driving out the millions of Jews who currently live there make the world more safe for Jews?

DP

Why is driving them out unavoidable if the State of Israel is politically reorganized into an actual democratic nation state?

Because a supermajority of Israelis will not agree to it. The only way for this to happen is to militarily force it, which means the death and suffering of millions of Jews.

The experiences of Israelis have taught them not to trust the Arab world with their safety and security, and you’re never going to have this dream scenario without that trust.

Instead, the Palestinians have decided to use violence and shame campaigns as their tools. You can’t be arguing that terrorism is justified and that Israel has no right to exist and then expect the Israelis to listen to you. Whether or not you think it’s correct, demonizing Israel will not lead to a peaceful one state solution. The Israelis have to agree to it, and you’re pushing them away.

You are indeed correct. Ironically, at the same time, the Palestinians say the exact same thing.

But that's so far in the future it doesn't matter. Right now the international community needs to remind both Israelis and Palestininians that we don't care what they agree to. Ethnic Cleansing, Mass Murder and Apartheid are not acceptable under any circumstances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One example is the inability of Israelis of European descent to pronounce the letter “ח”(chet). It is supposed to be pronounced as a distinct, guttural sound different from the standard "h" sound of the letter “ה”(hey). This guttural sound is common in Semitic languages like Hebrew and Arabic where the sound is “ح”

Yiddish, influenced by Germanic languages, lacks the guttural ח sound, and speakers often approximated it as a softer "h.”

When Hebrew was created as a spoken language in the late 19th primarily by Ashkenazi Jews in Europe, the pronunciation of ח was influenced by the the German "ch" in "Bach") was adopted as the standard.

DC folks when you listen to an Amharic (Semitic language) speaker you will notice this sound come up a lot and why Semitic people poke fun at Israelis inability to pronounce the “ח” (chet) sound and replace it with “ch.”

What? Israeli Hebrew does pronounce chet differently from hey. I don't know how it's pronounced in Arabic or Amharic, but I also don't know why you'd expect Hebrew to use the same pronunciation as two other languages do.

Amharic, Arabic, Somali, and other Semitic languages are the closest to the ancient Hebrew spoken language.

So your point here obviously is that Jews have no connection to the Middle East and in fact they're all just Germans, great, fine, you're a brilliant logician. So what? What does that have to do with how to get Israel to stop bombing Gaza today?

I did not say that.

I have presented linguistic facts and you are free to make your own deductions but do not put words in my mouth.

Okay, what was your point, then? It’s definitely true that the original Jewish immigrants to what’s now Israel spoke different languages (though some Jews already lived there). I don’t think even the craziest apocalyptic settlers would dispute that. But so what? What does that have to do with (a) whether they should have moved there then or (b) what’s happening today?

As for “go back to East Berlin” comments like the one from one PP, I happen to think the Holocaust is used inappropriately by Israeli politicians to fend off criticism. But I will say it’s also not that hard to figure out why there was a desire on the part of Jews and European powers alike to relocate surviving Jews outside of Europe right after the war. (There was also a desire on the part of European powers to relocate Jews long BEFORE the war, but that’s equally irrelevant to what a political solution to today’s problems looks like.)

That’s true that they needed a place after WW2.

The question is—in 2025 does the State of Israel make world wide Jews safe?

What are you trying to say? Let's get rid of Israel? Does driving out the millions of Jews who currently live there make the world more safe for Jews?

DP

Why is driving them out unavoidable if the State of Israel is politically reorganized into an actual democratic nation state?

Because a supermajority of Israelis will not agree to it. The only way for this to happen is to militarily force it, which means the death and suffering of millions of Jews.

The experiences of Israelis have taught them not to trust the Arab world with their safety and security, and you’re never going to have this dream scenario without that trust.

Instead, the Palestinians have decided to use violence and shame campaigns as their tools. You can’t be arguing that terrorism is justified and that Israel has no right to exist and then expect the Israelis to listen to you. Whether or not you think it’s correct, demonizing Israel will not lead to a peaceful one state solution. The Israelis have to agree to it, and you’re pushing them away.

My oh my, the quality of hasbara has really gone. So much projection.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One example is the inability of Israelis of European descent to pronounce the letter “ח”(chet). It is supposed to be pronounced as a distinct, guttural sound different from the standard "h" sound of the letter “ה”(hey). This guttural sound is common in Semitic languages like Hebrew and Arabic where the sound is “ح”

Yiddish, influenced by Germanic languages, lacks the guttural ח sound, and speakers often approximated it as a softer "h.”

When Hebrew was created as a spoken language in the late 19th primarily by Ashkenazi Jews in Europe, the pronunciation of ח was influenced by the the German "ch" in "Bach") was adopted as the standard.

DC folks when you listen to an Amharic (Semitic language) speaker you will notice this sound come up a lot and why Semitic people poke fun at Israelis inability to pronounce the “ח” (chet) sound and replace it with “ch.”

What? Israeli Hebrew does pronounce chet differently from hey. I don't know how it's pronounced in Arabic or Amharic, but I also don't know why you'd expect Hebrew to use the same pronunciation as two other languages do.

Amharic, Arabic, Somali, and other Semitic languages are the closest to the ancient Hebrew spoken language.

So your point here obviously is that Jews have no connection to the Middle East and in fact they're all just Germans, great, fine, you're a brilliant logician. So what? What does that have to do with how to get Israel to stop bombing Gaza today?

I did not say that.

I have presented linguistic facts and you are free to make your own deductions but do not put words in my mouth.

Okay, what was your point, then? It’s definitely true that the original Jewish immigrants to what’s now Israel spoke different languages (though some Jews already lived there). I don’t think even the craziest apocalyptic settlers would dispute that. But so what? What does that have to do with (a) whether they should have moved there then or (b) what’s happening today?

As for “go back to East Berlin” comments like the one from one PP, I happen to think the Holocaust is used inappropriately by Israeli politicians to fend off criticism. But I will say it’s also not that hard to figure out why there was a desire on the part of Jews and European powers alike to relocate surviving Jews outside of Europe right after the war. (There was also a desire on the part of European powers to relocate Jews long BEFORE the war, but that’s equally irrelevant to what a political solution to today’s problems looks like.)

That’s true that they needed a place after WW2.

The question is—in 2025 does the State of Israel make world wide Jews safe?

What are you trying to say? Let's get rid of Israel? Does driving out the millions of Jews who currently live there make the world more safe for Jews?

DP

Why is driving them out unavoidable if the State of Israel is politically reorganized into an actual democratic nation state?

Because a supermajority of Israelis will not agree to it. The only way for this to happen is to militarily force it, which means the death and suffering of millions of Jews.

The experiences of Israelis have taught them not to trust the Arab world with their safety and security, and you’re never going to have this dream scenario without that trust.

Instead, the Palestinians have decided to use violence and shame campaigns as their tools. You can’t be arguing that terrorism is justified and that Israel has no right to exist and then expect the Israelis to listen to you. Whether or not you think it’s correct, demonizing Israel will not lead to a peaceful one state solution. The Israelis have to agree to it, and you’re pushing them away.

You are indeed correct. Ironically, at the same time, the Palestinians say the exact same thing.

But that's so far in the future it doesn't matter. Right now the international community needs to remind both Israelis and Palestininians that we don't care what they agree to. Ethnic Cleansing, Mass Murder and Apartheid are not acceptable under any circumstances.

The one state, secular, democratic solution is mostly a Pro Palestinian idea. When it comes to peaceful solutions the Israelis vastly prefer a two state solution. The Palestinians have to do the heavy lifting of convincing the Israelis it’s a good idea. It’s not what the Israelis naturally want.

You’re right in that it’s so far into the future that it’s not a serious solution. However, it’s common for Pro Palestinians to present it as the only solution, and it forces people to talk about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One example is the inability of Israelis of European descent to pronounce the letter “ח”(chet). It is supposed to be pronounced as a distinct, guttural sound different from the standard "h" sound of the letter “ה”(hey). This guttural sound is common in Semitic languages like Hebrew and Arabic where the sound is “ح”

Yiddish, influenced by Germanic languages, lacks the guttural ח sound, and speakers often approximated it as a softer "h.”

When Hebrew was created as a spoken language in the late 19th primarily by Ashkenazi Jews in Europe, the pronunciation of ח was influenced by the the German "ch" in "Bach") was adopted as the standard.

DC folks when you listen to an Amharic (Semitic language) speaker you will notice this sound come up a lot and why Semitic people poke fun at Israelis inability to pronounce the “ח” (chet) sound and replace it with “ch.”

What? Israeli Hebrew does pronounce chet differently from hey. I don't know how it's pronounced in Arabic or Amharic, but I also don't know why you'd expect Hebrew to use the same pronunciation as two other languages do.

Amharic, Arabic, Somali, and other Semitic languages are the closest to the ancient Hebrew spoken language.

So your point here obviously is that Jews have no connection to the Middle East and in fact they're all just Germans, great, fine, you're a brilliant logician. So what? What does that have to do with how to get Israel to stop bombing Gaza today?

I did not say that.

I have presented linguistic facts and you are free to make your own deductions but do not put words in my mouth.

Okay, what was your point, then? It’s definitely true that the original Jewish immigrants to what’s now Israel spoke different languages (though some Jews already lived there). I don’t think even the craziest apocalyptic settlers would dispute that. But so what? What does that have to do with (a) whether they should have moved there then or (b) what’s happening today?

As for “go back to East Berlin” comments like the one from one PP, I happen to think the Holocaust is used inappropriately by Israeli politicians to fend off criticism. But I will say it’s also not that hard to figure out why there was a desire on the part of Jews and European powers alike to relocate surviving Jews outside of Europe right after the war. (There was also a desire on the part of European powers to relocate Jews long BEFORE the war, but that’s equally irrelevant to what a political solution to today’s problems looks like.)

That’s true that they needed a place after WW2.

The question is—in 2025 does the State of Israel make world wide Jews safe?

What are you trying to say? Let's get rid of Israel? Does driving out the millions of Jews who currently live there make the world more safe for Jews?

DP

Why is driving them out unavoidable if the State of Israel is politically reorganized into an actual democratic nation state?

Because a supermajority of Israelis will not agree to it. The only way for this to happen is to militarily force it, which means the death and suffering of millions of Jews.

The experiences of Israelis have taught them not to trust the Arab world with their safety and security, and you’re never going to have this dream scenario without that trust.

Instead, the Palestinians have decided to use violence and shame campaigns as their tools. You can’t be arguing that terrorism is justified and that Israel has no right to exist and then expect the Israelis to listen to you. Whether or not you think it’s correct, demonizing Israel will not lead to a peaceful one state solution. The Israelis have to agree to it, and you’re pushing them away.

You are indeed correct. Ironically, at the same time, the Palestinians say the exact same thing.

But that's so far in the future it doesn't matter. Right now the international community needs to remind both Israelis and Palestininians that we don't care what they agree to. Ethnic Cleansing, Mass Murder and Apartheid are not acceptable under any circumstances.

The two sides can’t agree on anything so now what? Status quo is the best of what’s left.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One example is the inability of Israelis of European descent to pronounce the letter “ח”(chet). It is supposed to be pronounced as a distinct, guttural sound different from the standard "h" sound of the letter “ה”(hey). This guttural sound is common in Semitic languages like Hebrew and Arabic where the sound is “ح”

Yiddish, influenced by Germanic languages, lacks the guttural ח sound, and speakers often approximated it as a softer "h.”

When Hebrew was created as a spoken language in the late 19th primarily by Ashkenazi Jews in Europe, the pronunciation of ח was influenced by the the German "ch" in "Bach") was adopted as the standard.

DC folks when you listen to an Amharic (Semitic language) speaker you will notice this sound come up a lot and why Semitic people poke fun at Israelis inability to pronounce the “ח” (chet) sound and replace it with “ch.”

What? Israeli Hebrew does pronounce chet differently from hey. I don't know how it's pronounced in Arabic or Amharic, but I also don't know why you'd expect Hebrew to use the same pronunciation as two other languages do.

Amharic, Arabic, Somali, and other Semitic languages are the closest to the ancient Hebrew spoken language.

So your point here obviously is that Jews have no connection to the Middle East and in fact they're all just Germans, great, fine, you're a brilliant logician. So what? What does that have to do with how to get Israel to stop bombing Gaza today?

I did not say that.

I have presented linguistic facts and you are free to make your own deductions but do not put words in my mouth.

Okay, what was your point, then? It’s definitely true that the original Jewish immigrants to what’s now Israel spoke different languages (though some Jews already lived there). I don’t think even the craziest apocalyptic settlers would dispute that. But so what? What does that have to do with (a) whether they should have moved there then or (b) what’s happening today?

As for “go back to East Berlin” comments like the one from one PP, I happen to think the Holocaust is used inappropriately by Israeli politicians to fend off criticism. But I will say it’s also not that hard to figure out why there was a desire on the part of Jews and European powers alike to relocate surviving Jews outside of Europe right after the war. (There was also a desire on the part of European powers to relocate Jews long BEFORE the war, but that’s equally irrelevant to what a political solution to today’s problems looks like.)

That’s true that they needed a place after WW2.

The question is—in 2025 does the State of Israel make world wide Jews safe?

What are you trying to say? Let's get rid of Israel? Does driving out the millions of Jews who currently live there make the world more safe for Jews?

DP

Why is driving them out unavoidable if the State of Israel is politically reorganized into an actual democratic nation state?

Because a supermajority of Israelis will not agree to it. The only way for this to happen is to militarily force it, which means the death and suffering of millions of Jews.

The experiences of Israelis have taught them not to trust the Arab world with their safety and security, and you’re never going to have this dream scenario without that trust.

Instead, the Palestinians have decided to use violence and shame campaigns as their tools. You can’t be arguing that terrorism is justified and that Israel has no right to exist and then expect the Israelis to listen to you. Whether or not you think it’s correct, demonizing Israel will not lead to a peaceful one state solution. The Israelis have to agree to it, and you’re pushing them away.

You are indeed correct. Ironically, at the same time, the Palestinians say the exact same thing.

But that's so far in the future it doesn't matter. Right now the international community needs to remind both Israelis and Palestininians that we don't care what they agree to. Ethnic Cleansing, Mass Murder and Apartheid are not acceptable under any circumstances.

The two sides can’t agree on anything so now what? Status quo is the best of what’s left.

Before the establishment of the state of Israel, Muslims, Jews and Christians were living harmoniously together in the state of Palestine. Jews were not persecuted by Muslims elsewhere in the Middle East either pre ‘48.

Even during this genocide we have found pristine Jewish cemeteries in Gaza were Muslims have protected and honored the dead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One example is the inability of Israelis of European descent to pronounce the letter “ח”(chet). It is supposed to be pronounced as a distinct, guttural sound different from the standard "h" sound of the letter “ה”(hey). This guttural sound is common in Semitic languages like Hebrew and Arabic where the sound is “ح”

Yiddish, influenced by Germanic languages, lacks the guttural ח sound, and speakers often approximated it as a softer "h.”

When Hebrew was created as a spoken language in the late 19th primarily by Ashkenazi Jews in Europe, the pronunciation of ח was influenced by the the German "ch" in "Bach") was adopted as the standard.

DC folks when you listen to an Amharic (Semitic language) speaker you will notice this sound come up a lot and why Semitic people poke fun at Israelis inability to pronounce the “ח” (chet) sound and replace it with “ch.”

What? Israeli Hebrew does pronounce chet differently from hey. I don't know how it's pronounced in Arabic or Amharic, but I also don't know why you'd expect Hebrew to use the same pronunciation as two other languages do.

Amharic, Arabic, Somali, and other Semitic languages are the closest to the ancient Hebrew spoken language.

So your point here obviously is that Jews have no connection to the Middle East and in fact they're all just Germans, great, fine, you're a brilliant logician. So what? What does that have to do with how to get Israel to stop bombing Gaza today?

I did not say that.

I have presented linguistic facts and you are free to make your own deductions but do not put words in my mouth.

Okay, what was your point, then? It’s definitely true that the original Jewish immigrants to what’s now Israel spoke different languages (though some Jews already lived there). I don’t think even the craziest apocalyptic settlers would dispute that. But so what? What does that have to do with (a) whether they should have moved there then or (b) what’s happening today?

As for “go back to East Berlin” comments like the one from one PP, I happen to think the Holocaust is used inappropriately by Israeli politicians to fend off criticism. But I will say it’s also not that hard to figure out why there was a desire on the part of Jews and European powers alike to relocate surviving Jews outside of Europe right after the war. (There was also a desire on the part of European powers to relocate Jews long BEFORE the war, but that’s equally irrelevant to what a political solution to today’s problems looks like.)

That’s true that they needed a place after WW2.

The question is—in 2025 does the State of Israel make world wide Jews safe?

What are you trying to say? Let's get rid of Israel? Does driving out the millions of Jews who currently live there make the world more safe for Jews?

DP

Why is driving them out unavoidable if the State of Israel is politically reorganized into an actual democratic nation state?

Because a supermajority of Israelis will not agree to it. The only way for this to happen is to militarily force it, which means the death and suffering of millions of Jews.

The experiences of Israelis have taught them not to trust the Arab world with their safety and security, and you’re never going to have this dream scenario without that trust.

Instead, the Palestinians have decided to use violence and shame campaigns as their tools. You can’t be arguing that terrorism is justified and that Israel has no right to exist and then expect the Israelis to listen to you. Whether or not you think it’s correct, demonizing Israel will not lead to a peaceful one state solution. The Israelis have to agree to it, and you’re pushing them away.

You are indeed correct. Ironically, at the same time, the Palestinians say the exact same thing.

But that's so far in the future it doesn't matter. Right now the international community needs to remind both Israelis and Palestininians that we don't care what they agree to. Ethnic Cleansing, Mass Murder and Apartheid are not acceptable under any circumstances.

The two sides can’t agree on anything so now what? Status quo is the best of what’s left.

Before the establishment of the state of Israel, Muslims, Jews and Christians were living harmoniously together in the state of Palestine. Jews were not persecuted by Muslims elsewhere in the Middle East either pre ‘48.

Even during this genocide we have found pristine Jewish cemeteries in Gaza were Muslims have protected and honored the dead.

complete and total bullshit.