Nice parents with bad kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s always the third child. Have pity on us

Wow +1

true at my house

+2

The youngest child is usually a brat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have several kids. It shocks me how strong genetics is. One of our kids is super difficult and we have parented very similarly. I think it's more complex than just saying "the parents are out to lunch".

I agree. In fact, without excellent parenting, my SN kid would be far worse.

I think this is at least a significant part of the general trend of kids having more and more noticeable and extreme SN issues, especially when it comes to behavior. I’m not saying it’s a majority of the cause, or even what the OPs situation is. And I’m also not downplaying how hard it is to parent a neurodivergent kid. it’s definitely not as simple as “parents are out to lunch”.

But in my opinion, I think it’s disingenuous if society/institutions/parents just responds to challenging behavior by kids with special needs as “oh larlo has a diagnosis and we need to just give him grace, neurotypical 8 yo Larla needs to understand this and not be upset when Larlo punches her!” (which seems to be the way the pendulum has swung recently). Instead of acknowledging that “hey, yes. Him being diagnosed with ___________ is an explanation of his behavior but that’s not an excuse and just means he needs more intensive structure/parenting/teaching along with appropriate discipline”.

Like yes, parenting a SN child more challenging. That means they need more support (along with some grace!),

not to just have everything excused as a manifestation of their disability.

People respond with “have some grace” when it’s not the observer’s responsibility for action. No one is saying the parents shouldn’t be doing more.

We have no idea what these parents are doing at home, and it’s possible that OP doesn’t either. Especially when it comes to minors, not all parents feel like it’s their place to expose a child’s medical conditions even with friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have several kids. It shocks me how strong genetics is. One of our kids is super difficult and we have parented very similarly. I think it's more complex than just saying "the parents are out to lunch".

I agree. In fact, without excellent parenting, my SN kid would be far worse.

I think this is at least a significant part of the general trend of kids having more and more noticeable and extreme SN issues, especially when it comes to behavior. I’m not saying it’s a majority of the cause, or even what the OPs situation is. And I’m also not downplaying how hard it is to parent a neurodivergent kid. it’s definitely not as simple as “parents are out to lunch”.

But in my opinion, I think it’s disingenuous if society/institutions/parents just responds to challenging behavior by kids with special needs as “oh larlo has a diagnosis and we need to just give him grace, neurotypical 8 yo Larla needs to understand this and not be upset when Larlo punches her!” (which seems to be the way the pendulum has swung recently). Instead of acknowledging that “hey, yes. Him being diagnosed with ___________ is an explanation of his behavior but that’s not an excuse and just means he needs more intensive structure/parenting/teaching along with appropriate discipline”.

Like yes, parenting a SN child more challenging. That means they need more support (along with some grace!),

not to just have everything excused as a manifestation of their disability.

People respond with “have some grace” when it’s not the observer’s responsibility for action. No one is saying the parents shouldn’t be doing more.

We have no idea what these parents are doing at home, and it’s possible that OP doesn’t either. Especially when it comes to minors, not all parents feel like it’s their place to expose a child’s medical conditions even with friends.

This reminds me of the viral video where a little girl is having a massive tantrum at Walmart throwing and breaking things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have several kids. It shocks me how strong genetics is. One of our kids is super difficult and we have parented very similarly. I think it's more complex than just saying "the parents are out to lunch".

I agree. In fact, without excellent parenting, my SN kid would be far worse.

I think this is at least a significant part of the general trend of kids having more and more noticeable and extreme SN issues, especially when it comes to behavior. I’m not saying it’s a majority of the cause, or even what the OPs situation is. And I’m also not downplaying how hard it is to parent a neurodivergent kid. it’s definitely not as simple as “parents are out to lunch”.

But in my opinion, I think it’s disingenuous if society/institutions/parents just responds to challenging behavior by kids with special needs as “oh larlo has a diagnosis and we need to just give him grace, neurotypical 8 yo Larla needs to understand this and not be upset when Larlo punches her!” (which seems to be the way the pendulum has swung recently). Instead of acknowledging that “hey, yes. Him being diagnosed with ___________ is an explanation of his behavior but that’s not an excuse and just means he needs more intensive structure/parenting/teaching along with appropriate discipline”.

Like yes, parenting a SN child more challenging. That means they need more support (along with some grace!),

not to just have everything excused as a manifestation of their disability.

People respond with “have some grace” when it’s not the observer’s responsibility for action. No one is saying the parents shouldn’t be doing more.

We have no idea what these parents are doing at home, and it’s possible that OP doesn’t either. Especially when it comes to minors, not all parents feel like it’s their place to expose a child’s medical conditions even with friends.

+1 so many times this

OP started a thread about observing other people's children. I know how much people love judging other parents. It makes you feel so good about yourself, right? But it's kind of sad and pathetic IMO.

FWIW my DH and I are nice people with a kid that is super nice in public. At home, she is rude and demanding. Yes, I tell her no all the time. She is ND and that absolutely impacts her behavior. I didn't move mountains to get her diagnosed to have an "excuse" for her behavior or to get a pass on parenting. JFC.

[Anonymous]

Being a nice adult doesn't make you a good parent. In fact, it possibly makes you an overly permissive parent, hence the monster children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:genetics is not destiny OP. and it works both ways. my dear friend's father beat her while her mother ignored the issue, and she's one of the the nicest persons one could ever meet.

+1

My husband's dad is abusive and his mom has always been fully aware of it and did nothing to protect her child, but everyone thinks she's just the NICEST person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Being a nice adult doesn't make you a good parent. In fact, it possibly makes you an overly permissive parent, hence the monster children.

Being a nice adult to other adults does not mean you are a permissive parent. My DH is very nice, probably nicer than I am, and he is much less permissive than I am.

And IME, to a certain extent children treat you the way you treat them. My child is by no means perfect, but she has been described as "kind" by multiple professionals, which makes me so proud. For example, she says please and thank you instinctively. Not because we have berated her into doing it, but because we use those words with her at home, constantly.

[Anonymous]

The most difficult human I've ever met (as a little boy, now a deep challenging high schooler) has one of the nicest people I've ever met as a mom. Nothing at all like his older sister. He is just wired differently with a variety of special needs. None of the traditional disciplinary methods work with him.

[Anonymous]

I know a few parents with very bratty, ill-behaved kids who are the type who are dragging them around to at least one, maybe two, sports or activities every night of the week. The one in particular gets a lot of "I don't know how you do it!!!" praise for running around a bunch of kids with an uninvolved dad.

In reality, the end result is she is not really spending any kind of meaningful time with her kids. They are either in the sports or on the sidelines playing with other siblings as she socializes with other moms. No one disciplines them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Crying, screaming, and even hitting are developmentally normal at certain ages so it is hard to tell given the vagueness what is normal/not and what is just a developmental stage/personality/a problem.

Swearing is not, and I would say cursing/swearing reveals something more about your friends than anything else. Plenty of people can come off as put together or normal parents but might go home and be completely out of control — cursing at their kids, berating them, and otherwise being emotionally or physically abused.

Their “good” kids don’t tell you anything — I was a “good” kid to emotionally immature parents because I knew making a “mistake” (being a normal child) would end in abuse for me. My parents were always complimented on being excellent parents and came off as normal but they were terrible at home. My older brother — with severe behavioral issues, who drinks, swears, has issues with domestic violence, really tells the truth of what was going on in my house.

Modeling is the answer here. Smack your kid and yell/berate/curse at them? You’ve just normalized that for the rest of their lives

Perhaps that kid has parents like yours, but it very well could be that the kid picked it up cursing from other kids and continues to do it because the parents do not approve. There’s no way, from the outside, to tell which scenario is happening inside the home.

The OP replied that the kid is 10 — still young to be exposed to explicit language, so again causes me to ask what are the parents really like and what exactly is that child being exposed to at home (either by their parents saying it, or exposing them to explicit media).

You are right - there is no way to tell what is going on at home, so to jump to the conclusion that these are perfect people with a bad egg is just as much as a reach as me saying a kid isn’t born learning to curse and rage but is probably picking that up in their home environment from parents who know better than to show their friends that side of them during 1-2 hour ocasional public outings.

More than anything, bad parents like this are desperate for approval from their peers and put public perception over the wellbeing of their children. It’s easy to write it off as “the woes of gentle parenting” but the reality is that there are a lot of actually bad parents that care more about what their friends think than how their kids feel, and it is so so stupid.

Uhh...my kids were exposed to the f word in PreK and 2nd, respectively. Both public and private setting. That kid unfortunately is not too young to be exposed.

[Anonymous]

I think some nice people with ill behaved kids have been poorly served by the positive/gentle parenting movement. A video just came up on my social media with some “expert” claiming that kids go into fight or flight mode when we use 1-2-3 countdowns to try to get them to stop (or start) doing something. And that instead parents should “invite the child to move into something else”. Like what? On what planet does that actually work? Parents have been made to feel so afraid that a child might feel a negative emotion as a result of something the parent says to them because these dump parenting experts keep telling them it’s so bad for kids’ nervous systems to be upset. Our brains are capable of experiencing a full range of emotions for a reason! If a kid is upset because there’s a consequence for acting feral, so be it. That is how we become socialized.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think some nice people with ill behaved kids have been poorly served by the positive/gentle parenting movement. A video just came up on my social media with some “expert” claiming that kids go into fight or flight mode when we use 1-2-3 countdowns to try to get them to stop (or start) doing something. And that instead parents should “invite the child to move into something else”. Like what? On what planet does that actually work? Parents have been made to feel so afraid that a child might feel a negative emotion as a result of something the parent says to them because these dump parenting experts keep telling them it’s so bad for kids’ nervous systems to be upset. Our brains are capable of experiencing a full range of emotions for a reason! If a kid is upset because there’s a consequence for acting feral, so be it. That is how we become socialized.

I'm curious what percentage of parents are actually getting this advice? I've never heard any advice against countdowns.

I think most parents just try what works best. And many of us just use screens too much with our kids because they are easy. I'm guilty of it too. I am horribly addicted to my phone and when I'm on it DC wants a screen too. I'm working on it. I do think the role of "gentle parenting" is overstated. I think screens have a bigger impact than we realize.

[Anonymous]

My kid went through a phase of being kind of awful in public. It was due to an eating disorder -- she was constantly hungry but would not eat (sensory issue caused by enlarged tonsils), so she was hangry all the time.

We are nice people! It took us a while to figure this out.

[Anonymous]

I know a few families who have more kids than they probably should have, and they seem to have kind of given up for the last one. Those youngest kids are holy terrors. People need to really know themselves and know if they are prepared to fully parent 3, 4 or 5 kids. A lot of people are not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Their parentings skills suck. I know people like this. They are the type to sit in first class and leave their kids alone in economy to fend for themselves. They will give 3 of them 1 I-pad to fight over for the flight and stay blissfully unaware several rows ahead.

...this is oddly specific

We have a friend whose kids fight constantly. I wish they would give them an iPad. Even on a flight or long road trip, the parents refuse to give the kids any screens. Instead they suffer through whining and fighting and parents often say how terrible the trip was because kids were fighting the whole time.

Sometimes you have to play the long game, though.

We went on a summer odyssey from dc to the midwest and back in our packed to the gills Honda Odyssey (8 people, including the grandparents.) Two day trip in both directions. Zero screens in the car. Air conditioning conked out half way through. The kids did absolutely, unbelievably well -- giggling, chatting, reading, singing, playing card games. A few years back, shorter trips were more thunderdomey.

Agree. The long game is to allow them to whine/fight/work it out/giggle/get bored/complain/invent a game/rinse and repeat, not to pacify them with screens.