Nice parents with bad kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm older.

There was a kid in my neighborhood who just seemed to be a bad seed. He was the youngest of 4. THe older 3 were genuinely nice kids. All 3 are grown, have good careers and seem to be happily married.

The other kids in our neighborhodd were terrified of the youngest by the time he was in third grade. His parents divorced, but dad was still very much involved. I think having the kid from hell put a lot of strain on their marriage. His parents tried everything.

He's in prison now.

Reminds me of the Glass Castle family. The parenting was crappy, but the three older kids turned out very much OK. The youngest turned out to have severe psychiatric issues and it defined her trajectory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents are delusional, or normalize or excuse the behavior and/or are simply ignoring - hoping kid will grow out of it.

Or they medicate the heck out of the kid and consider that the sole solution but they’ve essentially checked out at that point. .

This really doesn’t make sense. Parenting used to be far more hands off. Kids just went outside and played. That’s what kids do in hunter gatherer cultures that are still around.

We’re parenting all the time and it wears us all out. Being stricter is better as it makes kids better to be around.

And the behavior is regulated by their peers. You scream, claw and hit? You are going to get as good as you give, and you might get ostracized and have to earn your right back into the group. The peers aren’t gentle and don’t give a damn about your “big feelings”, so you learn real quick.

[Anonymous]

My kid is way, WAY nicer and better behaved in public than myself it or my husband ever were or than we deserve credit for with our parenting. She just came out that way. She is extremely difficult and high needs in certain other ways (that don’t come out in public). All this is to say, I think temperament is a strong, genetic thing, and parents do way less with parenting than we think.

[Anonymous]

I see this a lot at my kid’s school too and sometimes the bad kids have good siblings! The parents are nice and seemingly involved, and the kid is a terror at school. It’s so unpredictable. I have no idea what’s going on. Well, in one case I think the parents are in denial about their kid’s degree of special needs. But that’s just one circumstance and one family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm older.

There was a kid in my neighborhood who just seemed to be a bad seed. He was the youngest of 4. THe older 3 were genuinely nice kids. All 3 are grown, have good careers and seem to be happily married.

The other kids in our neighborhodd were terrified of the youngest by the time he was in third grade. His parents divorced, but dad was still very much involved. I think having the kid from hell put a lot of strain on their marriage. His parents tried everything.

He's in prison now.

Reminds me of the Glass Castle family. The parenting was crappy, but the three older kids turned out very much OK. The youngest turned out to have severe psychiatric issues and it defined her trajectory.

The older kids had some relatively good years living out west

The parents' problems had worsened and I'm the living conditions deteriorated during the youngest's childhood. She also was not able to move away from them when she grew up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents are delusional, or normalize or excuse the behavior and/or are simply ignoring - hoping kid will grow out of it.

Or they medicate the heck out of the kid and consider that the sole solution but they’ve essentially checked out at that point. .

This really doesn’t make sense. Parenting used to be far more hands off. Kids just went outside and played. That’s what kids do in hunter gatherer cultures that are still around.

We’re parenting all the time and it wears us all out. Being stricter is better as it makes kids better to be around.

And the behavior is regulated by their peers. You scream, claw and hit? You are going to get as good as you give, and you might get ostracized and have to earn your right back into the group. The peers aren’t gentle and don’t give a damn about your “big feelings”, so you learn real quick.

Yup and maybe that’s more effective for kids with tougher temperaments than parental intervention that doesn’t involve using fear of violence.

There’s so much about parenting today that fuels this massive increase in dysregulated kids. Nothing wrong with presumption of good intent.

And stricter standards are a start.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just want to note that as a parent if a very difficult kid who is a really pretty well behaved like 90% of the time (and whom we parent with limits, appropriate discipline, and lots one lots of modeling/teaching of skills and tools to navigate life) I never judge parents by a single experience with their kids. You just don't know.

People with easy going or highly compliant kids don't get it. When their kids get dysregulated because they are hungry or tired or had a bad day, they might get quiet, fall asleep in the car, whine a little.

When my kid gets dysregulated, she gets angry and loud. It's actually a million times better now than a few years ago, but I have absolutely been the parent whose kid is screaming at the top of her lungs, refusing to do what's asked, making a huge scene. I think I've handled those moments okay as a parent but the truth is no one cares. You can have the perfect response to that and most people will still look at you like lepers because your kid is being disruptive and scary and they just want you to go away.

You can't parent in those situations hoping for the approval of other parents. That is sure to steer you wrong. I've had parenting coaching and read ALL the books and worked with a behavioral therapist and most of the time, in that situation, your kid needs understanding and kindness. No one wants to hear that. I'm a parent who sets limits, gives consequences. But not if my kid has just completely lost it. That's actually exactly when you need to be gentle, non-punitive, and supportive. You talk through it later, they will probably be other consequences. But in the moment when the whole playground is staring and thinking what a crap mom you must be? That is the moment when you are very gentle. And they'll all think "oh look at this terrible, permissive mom -- that's why her kid is like that." And you just gave to let them think that. Oh well.

I have an older kid with moderate SN for whom we have done ALL the things including therapy and parent training. My younger child is similar to PP’s 90 percent kid. Wonderful most of the time but the outbursts are just awful. I’m pretty sure that a number of parents who have witnessed them think we are terrible parents. It’s really hard but in that moment there is literally nothing to do. We are looking into an evaluation for that child as well and their teacher thinks we are nuts because DC is so good most of the time compared to many other students. The development pediatrician we worked with for our older child told us that at these ages almost any occasional behavior can be considered developmental normal and it’s really hard to know when that line being crossed. But other parents just see a child melting down and of course out of context they think the parents suck. It’s a reasonable conclusion just kind of hard to stomach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s always the third child. Have pity on us

I’m the third child with siblings who constantly made fun of my body. I was not a terror, never hit or insult my parents. I was just sad that my parents were not correcting my brother and sister’s behavior towards me.

[Anonymous]

It’s a stupid teacher not disciplining other kids when bullying your child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just want to note that as a parent if a very difficult kid who is a really pretty well behaved like 90% of the time (and whom we parent with limits, appropriate discipline, and lots one lots of modeling/teaching of skills and tools to navigate life) I never judge parents by a single experience with their kids. You just don't know.

People with easy going or highly compliant kids don't get it. When their kids get dysregulated because they are hungry or tired or had a bad day, they might get quiet, fall asleep in the car, whine a little.

When my kid gets dysregulated, she gets angry and loud. It's actually a million times better now than a few years ago, but I have absolutely been the parent whose kid is screaming at the top of her lungs, refusing to do what's asked, making a huge scene. I think I've handled those moments okay as a parent but the truth is no one cares. You can have the perfect response to that and most people will still look at you like lepers because your kid is being disruptive and scary and they just want you to go away.

You can't parent in those situations hoping for the approval of other parents. That is sure to steer you wrong. I've had parenting coaching and read ALL the books and worked with a behavioral therapist and most of the time, in that situation, your kid needs understanding and kindness. No one wants to hear that. I'm a parent who sets limits, gives consequences. But not if my kid has just completely lost it. That's actually exactly when you need to be gentle, non-punitive, and supportive. You talk through it later, they will probably be other consequences. But in the moment when the whole playground is staring and thinking what a crap mom you must be? That is the moment when you are very gentle. And they'll all think "oh look at this terrible, permissive mom -- that's why her kid is like that." And you just gave to let them think that. Oh well.

I have an older kid with moderate SN for whom we have done ALL the things including therapy and parent training. My younger child is similar to PP’s 90 percent kid. Wonderful most of the time but the outbursts are just awful. I’m pretty sure that a number of parents who have witnessed them think we are terrible parents. It’s really hard but in that moment there is literally nothing to do. We are looking into an evaluation for that child as well and their teacher thinks we are nuts because DC is so good most of the time compared to many other students. The development pediatrician we worked with for our older child told us that at these ages almost any occasional behavior can be considered developmental normal and it’s really hard to know when that line being crossed. But other parents just see a child melting down and of course out of context they think the parents suck. It’s a reasonable conclusion just kind of hard to stomach.

Op here. The child I posted about is not an occasional outburst. The mom sadly joked that child came out being difficult. I guess she was a very difficult baby, difficult toddler, difficult adjusting to having a sibling, just always difficult. I don’t think the child has special needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents are delusional, or normalize or excuse the behavior and/or are simply ignoring - hoping kid will grow out of it.

Or they medicate the heck out of the kid and consider that the sole solution but they’ve essentially checked out at that point. .

This really doesn’t make sense. Parenting used to be far more hands off. Kids just went outside and played. That’s what kids do in hunter gatherer cultures that are still around.

We’re parenting all the time and it wears us all out. Being stricter is better as it makes kids better to be around.

And the behavior is regulated by their peers. You scream, claw and hit? You are going to get as good as you give, and you might get ostracized and have to earn your right back into the group. The peers aren’t gentle and don’t give a damn about your “big feelings”, so you learn real quick.

That’s how it was before the modern helicopter over-parenting. Now the kid instantly runs home to tattle and it’s “How dare Skylar do that to you, my perfect angel! Here, hold my hand and we’ll match over to Skylar’s parents’ door and demand an apology!”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a child therapist. You would be absolutely shocked at the lack of parenting going on in "normal" "nice" families. People come to me because their kids are out of control and they want me to fix their kids, but haven't tried a single thing. Zero boundaries, discipline or consequences. We're doomed, honestly. And I'm a millennial not some crotchety old lady saying get off my lawn.

I believe it. I can see it in the kids in our neighborhood. All the parents are “nice” and I like all the adults. But I know that in the homes where the kids have behavior issues, the kids have basically unlimited screen access, no structure, no thought about what they can and can’t consume on TV/internet, parents are inconsistent in guiding them.

We’re not doomed, though. You’re only seeing the tough cases because of your work. There are plenty of families out there raising their kids in a decent way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just want to note that as a parent if a very difficult kid who is a really pretty well behaved like 90% of the time (and whom we parent with limits, appropriate discipline, and lots one lots of modeling/teaching of skills and tools to navigate life) I never judge parents by a single experience with their kids. You just don't know.

People with easy going or highly compliant kids don't get it. When their kids get dysregulated because they are hungry or tired or had a bad day, they might get quiet, fall asleep in the car, whine a little.

When my kid gets dysregulated, she gets angry and loud. It's actually a million times better now than a few years ago, but I have absolutely been the parent whose kid is screaming at the top of her lungs, refusing to do what's asked, making a huge scene. I think I've handled those moments okay as a parent but the truth is no one cares. You can have the perfect response to that and most people will still look at you like lepers because your kid is being disruptive and scary and they just want you to go away.

You can't parent in those situations hoping for the approval of other parents. That is sure to steer you wrong. I've had parenting coaching and read ALL the books and worked with a behavioral therapist and most of the time, in that situation, your kid needs understanding and kindness. No one wants to hear that. I'm a parent who sets limits, gives consequences. But not if my kid has just completely lost it. That's actually exactly when you need to be gentle, non-punitive, and supportive. You talk through it later, they will probably be other consequences. But in the moment when the whole playground is staring and thinking what a crap mom you must be? That is the moment when you are very gentle. And they'll all think "oh look at this terrible, permissive mom -- that's why her kid is like that." And you just gave to let them think that. Oh well.

I have an older kid with moderate SN for whom we have done ALL the things including therapy and parent training. My younger child is similar to PP’s 90 percent kid. Wonderful most of the time but the outbursts are just awful. I’m pretty sure that a number of parents who have witnessed them think we are terrible parents. It’s really hard but in that moment there is literally nothing to do. We are looking into an evaluation for that child as well and their teacher thinks we are nuts because DC is so good most of the time compared to many other students. The development pediatrician we worked with for our older child told us that at these ages almost any occasional behavior can be considered developmental normal and it’s really hard to know when that line being crossed. But other parents just see a child melting down and of course out of context they think the parents suck. It’s a reasonable conclusion just kind of hard to stomach.

Op here. The child I posted about is not an occasional outburst. The mom sadly joked that child came out being difficult. I guess she was a very difficult baby, difficult toddler, difficult adjusting to having a sibling, just always difficult. I don’t think the child has special needs.

"Always difficult" very often = a special need. Babies and young kids are difficult unless they are struggling. It sounds to me like she has some undiagnosed issue and the parents arent putting effort in to figuring it out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just want to note that as a parent if a very difficult kid who is a really pretty well behaved like 90% of the time (and whom we parent with limits, appropriate discipline, and lots one lots of modeling/teaching of skills and tools to navigate life) I never judge parents by a single experience with their kids. You just don't know.

People with easy going or highly compliant kids don't get it. When their kids get dysregulated because they are hungry or tired or had a bad day, they might get quiet, fall asleep in the car, whine a little.

When my kid gets dysregulated, she gets angry and loud. It's actually a million times better now than a few years ago, but I have absolutely been the parent whose kid is screaming at the top of her lungs, refusing to do what's asked, making a huge scene. I think I've handled those moments okay as a parent but the truth is no one cares. You can have the perfect response to that and most people will still look at you like lepers because your kid is being disruptive and scary and they just want you to go away.

You can't parent in those situations hoping for the approval of other parents. That is sure to steer you wrong. I've had parenting coaching and read ALL the books and worked with a behavioral therapist and most of the time, in that situation, your kid needs understanding and kindness. No one wants to hear that. I'm a parent who sets limits, gives consequences. But not if my kid has just completely lost it. That's actually exactly when you need to be gentle, non-punitive, and supportive. You talk through it later, they will probably be other consequences. But in the moment when the whole playground is staring and thinking what a crap mom you must be? That is the moment when you are very gentle. And they'll all think "oh look at this terrible, permissive mom -- that's why her kid is like that." And you just gave to let them think that. Oh well.

I have an older kid with moderate SN for whom we have done ALL the things including therapy and parent training. My younger child is similar to PP’s 90 percent kid. Wonderful most of the time but the outbursts are just awful. I’m pretty sure that a number of parents who have witnessed them think we are terrible parents. It’s really hard but in that moment there is literally nothing to do. We are looking into an evaluation for that child as well and their teacher thinks we are nuts because DC is so good most of the time compared to many other students. The development pediatrician we worked with for our older child told us that at these ages almost any occasional behavior can be considered developmental normal and it’s really hard to know when that line being crossed. But other parents just see a child melting down and of course out of context they think the parents suck. It’s a reasonable conclusion just kind of hard to stomach.

Op here. The child I posted about is not an occasional outburst. The mom sadly joked that child came out being difficult. I guess she was a very difficult baby, difficult toddler, difficult adjusting to having a sibling, just always difficult. I don’t think the child has special needs.

"Always difficult" very often = a special need. Babies and young kids are difficult unless they are struggling. It sounds to me like she has some undiagnosed issue and the parents arent putting effort in to figuring it out.

Yeah, they'll finally deal with it when the kid is ten and it's too late to do any meaningful intervention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have several kids. It shocks me how strong genetics is. One of our kids is super difficult and we have parented very similarly. I think it's more complex than just saying "the parents are out to lunch".

I agree. In fact, without excellent parenting, my SN kid would be far worse.

I think this is at least a significant part of the general trend of kids having more and more noticeable and extreme SN issues, especially when it comes to behavior. I’m not saying it’s a majority of the cause, or even what the OPs situation is. And I’m also not downplaying how hard it is to parent a neurodivergent kid. it’s definitely not as simple as “parents are out to lunch”.

But in my opinion, I think it’s disingenuous if society/institutions/parents just responds to challenging behavior by kids with special needs as “oh larlo has a diagnosis and we need to just give him grace, neurotypical 8 yo Larla needs to understand this and not be upset when Larlo punches her!” (which seems to be the way the pendulum has swung recently). Instead of acknowledging that “hey, yes. Him being diagnosed with ___________ is an explanation of his behavior but that’s not an excuse and just means he needs more intensive structure/parenting/teaching along with appropriate discipline”.

Like yes, parenting a SN child more challenging. That means they need more support (along with some grace!),

not to just have everything excused as a manifestation of their disability.