RTO and employees who live outside the DC metro

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Office-based work is also completely out of sync with the real estate market. Most people change jobs multiple times throughout their careers. It makes no sense to uproot a family and take on the expense of selling a home to work for a job that you have not have (voluntarily or involuntarily) in five years. I even know people in the DC that have sold and bought homes when they changed jobs (e.g., moving between MD and VA or PG and MoCo counties) to be closer to work. Owning a home is a huge deterrent to changing jobs when in office work is required, even within in the same metro area when commutes can be very long.

Exactly but it’s also not fair to kids to keep moving them if they are happy and doing well. I’m not moving every 2-6 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Office-based work is also completely out of sync with the real estate market. Most people change jobs multiple times throughout their careers. It makes no sense to uproot a family and take on the expense of selling a home to work for a job that you have not have (voluntarily or involuntarily) in five years. I even know people in the DC that have sold and bought homes when they changed jobs (e.g., moving between MD and VA or PG and MoCo counties) to be closer to work. Owning a home is a huge deterrent to changing jobs when in office work is required, even within in the same metro area when commutes can be very long.

This is a great example of another tangential argument about RTO. My company has decided that we work best together in our office together in person, period full stop. Your real estate market concerns, child care arrangements, feelings about public transportation, etc are all irrelevant. If those are more of a priority for you please go somewhere else and we will find some other worker who better fits our company.

No one cares about your company with hostile supervisors. There is no way to take public transportation to these buildings. We have teens, no child care issues, but when you are working all day and a few hours at night it’s a driving and safety issue. Do you have to get up at 2am regularly to fix something? Have calls between 7-12 at night? Calls at 6-7 am?

Yeah who cares about being efficient. Let’s all waste time commuting unnecessarily.

[Anonymous]

We too are upset that work hired remote people and then called the rest of us back into the office. I will say that my remote employees are the worst. I know all remote employees aren’t bad but when they are, there’s nothing you can do. I have zero monitoring equipment, their reports are always late, they’re never around to help (and yes that’s needed for the job) and they’re always on vacation or trying to work remotely from the beach. I have put the worst on PIPs and fired but that takes months of my time.

I think work could fix everything if we had monitoring equipment and fixed hours. Stop allowing employees to be absent for hours during the day without taking leave.

[Anonymous]

It is not about commute or kids blah blah blah.

My company I say 1/2 the company lives right next to office and young no kids or over 55 no kids to rein home to.

They just like to goof off at home all day. Three people I work with are single no kids and WFH three days a week and literally go to the Starbucks, Chipotle by office on their days WFH. They literally live walking distance the office.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Office-based work is also completely out of sync with the real estate market. Most people change jobs multiple times throughout their careers. It makes no sense to uproot a family and take on the expense of selling a home to work for a job that you have not have (voluntarily or involuntarily) in five years. I even know people in the DC that have sold and bought homes when they changed jobs (e.g., moving between MD and VA or PG and MoCo counties) to be closer to work. Owning a home is a huge deterrent to changing jobs when in office work is required, even within in the same metro area when commutes can be very long.

This is a great example of another tangential argument about RTO. My company has decided that we work best together in our office together in person, period full stop. Your real estate market concerns, child care arrangements, feelings about public transportation, etc are all irrelevant. If those are more of a priority for you please go somewhere else and we will find some other worker who better fits our company.

No one cares about your company with hostile supervisors. There is no way to take public transportation to these buildings. We have teens, no child care issues, but when you are working all day and a few hours at night it’s a driving and safety issue. Do you have to get up at 2am regularly to fix something? Have calls between 7-12 at night? Calls at 6-7 am?

We don’t have hostile supervisors, people who seem to like interacting with other humans in person do well in my company at any level. I do have to get up and fix something or have calls at night, and I’m compensated well for my time. Also my 12 and 14 year old kids take the metro and public busses without incident so I find these sudden misgiving about public transportation from grown adults laughable. I’m sure my job and lifestyle aren’t for everyone but the constant complaining from the insufferable pandemic-life-is-my-forever-lifestyle crowd is exhausting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is a Zoomer vs. Boomer thing.

No, I’m a 47 year old gen x woman and I am the one who is managing and judging the gen Z kids who don’t seem to want to work from anywhere really. My boomer parents are 75 and enjoying their retirements in Florida these days.

Thank you. All the little kids think everyone over the age of 28 is a "boomer" and they use that as an epithet when they're called out on bullshit. But in fact, the large majority of us are the oldest millennials and Gen X -- you know, that entire generation that everyone forgets? Boomers are overwhelmingly retired as of this writing (ages 60 to 78)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Office-based work is also completely out of sync with the real estate market. Most people change jobs multiple times throughout their careers. It makes no sense to uproot a family and take on the expense of selling a home to work for a job that you have not have (voluntarily or involuntarily) in five years. I even know people in the DC that have sold and bought homes when they changed jobs (e.g., moving between MD and VA or PG and MoCo counties) to be closer to work. Owning a home is a huge deterrent to changing jobs when in office work is required, even within in the same metro area when commutes can be very long.

This is a great example of another tangential argument about RTO. My company has decided that we work best together in our office together in person, period full stop. Your real estate market concerns, child care arrangements, feelings about public transportation, etc are all irrelevant. If those are more of a priority for you please go somewhere else and we will find some other worker who better fits our company.

JFC, this ^^^

You know how I know that all those concerns can be managed or, if not, the worker can go elsewhere? Hospitals.

Hospitals are typically the largest employer in any given city and with very few exceptions (HR, IT), EVERYONE must report in person to their job. To perform brain surgery, to empty the trash, to infuse chemotherapy into a patient, to clean up your body fluids, to perform your MRI.

We. figure. it. out. Because we have to. We do not move to Faquier County if our job is in Silver Spring, and we don't try to get away with not having childcare for our toddler because ... we're working. We don't whine about snow or metro, because we are required to show up even when it's raining!. Somehow, we get ourselves there.

If any of this is insurmountable, and in fairness, these are all legit concerns, then we select a different employer.

If gigantic hospital systems full of workers -- at every income and education leve-- l can execute, then so can you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Office-based work is also completely out of sync with the real estate market. Most people change jobs multiple times throughout their careers. It makes no sense to uproot a family and take on the expense of selling a home to work for a job that you have not have (voluntarily or involuntarily) in five years. I even know people in the DC that have sold and bought homes when they changed jobs (e.g., moving between MD and VA or PG and MoCo counties) to be closer to work. Owning a home is a huge deterrent to changing jobs when in office work is required, even within in the same metro area when commutes can be very long.

This is a great example of another tangential argument about RTO. My company has decided that we work best together in our office together in person, period full stop. Your real estate market concerns, child care arrangements, feelings about public transportation, etc are all irrelevant. If those are more of a priority for you please go somewhere else and we will find some other worker who better fits our company.

JFC, this ^^^

You know how I know that all those concerns can be managed or, if not, the worker can go elsewhere? Hospitals.

Hospitals are typically the largest employer in any given city and with very few exceptions (HR, IT), EVERYONE must report in person to their job. To perform brain surgery, to empty the trash, to infuse chemotherapy into a patient, to clean up your body fluids, to perform your MRI.

We. figure. it. out. Because we have to. We do not move to Faquier County if our job is in Silver Spring, and we don't try to get away with not having childcare for our toddler because ... we're working. We don't whine about snow or metro, because we are required to show up even when it's raining!. Somehow, we get ourselves there.

If any of this is insurmountable, and in fairness, these are all legit concerns, then we select a different employer.

If gigantic hospital systems full of workers -- at every income and education leve-- l can execute, then so can you!

Of course. And I’m sure if hospital workers could easily do their job remotely they would also be wanting to work from home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Office-based work is also completely out of sync with the real estate market. Most people change jobs multiple times throughout their careers. It makes no sense to uproot a family and take on the expense of selling a home to work for a job that you have not have (voluntarily or involuntarily) in five years. I even know people in the DC that have sold and bought homes when they changed jobs (e.g., moving between MD and VA or PG and MoCo counties) to be closer to work. Owning a home is a huge deterrent to changing jobs when in office work is required, even within in the same metro area when commutes can be very long.

This is a great example of another tangential argument about RTO. My company has decided that we work best together in our office together in person, period full stop. Your real estate market concerns, child care arrangements, feelings about public transportation, etc are all irrelevant. If those are more of a priority for you please go somewhere else and we will find some other worker who better fits our company.

No one cares about your company with hostile supervisors. There is no way to take public transportation to these buildings. We have teens, no child care issues, but when you are working all day and a few hours at night it’s a driving and safety issue. Do you have to get up at 2am regularly to fix something? Have calls between 7-12 at night? Calls at 6-7 am?

We don’t have hostile supervisors, people who seem to like interacting with other humans in person do well in my company at any level. I do have to get up and fix something or have calls at night, and I’m compensated well for my time. Also my 12 and 14 year old kids take the metro and public busses without incident so I find these sudden misgiving about public transportation from grown adults laughable. I’m sure my job and lifestyle aren’t for everyone but the constant complaining from the insufferable pandemic-life-is-my-forever-lifestyle crowd is exhausting.

I wouldn’t be as anti-RTO if I actually worked with people in my office. Except I don’t. I commute 3 hours round trip to work by myself in a conference room. I’m on a project for the next 3 years with 15 people and not a single one is based in my city.

Similar story as my husband. Forced to commute to an office to sit by himself.

There are millions of us commuting for absolutely no reason but to change our laptop’s location.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Office-based work is also completely out of sync with the real estate market. Most people change jobs multiple times throughout their careers. It makes no sense to uproot a family and take on the expense of selling a home to work for a job that you have not have (voluntarily or involuntarily) in five years. I even know people in the DC that have sold and bought homes when they changed jobs (e.g., moving between MD and VA or PG and MoCo counties) to be closer to work. Owning a home is a huge deterrent to changing jobs when in office work is required, even within in the same metro area when commutes can be very long.

This is a great example of another tangential argument about RTO. My company has decided that we work best together in our office together in person, period full stop. Your real estate market concerns, child care arrangements, feelings about public transportation, etc are all irrelevant. If those are more of a priority for you please go somewhere else and we will find some other worker who better fits our company.

No one cares about your company with hostile supervisors. There is no way to take public transportation to these buildings. We have teens, no child care issues, but when you are working all day and a few hours at night it’s a driving and safety issue. Do you have to get up at 2am regularly to fix something? Have calls between 7-12 at night? Calls at 6-7 am?

We don’t have hostile supervisors, people who seem to like interacting with other humans in person do well in my company at any level. I do have to get up and fix something or have calls at night, and I’m compensated well for my time. Also my 12 and 14 year old kids take the metro and public busses without incident so I find these sudden misgiving about public transportation from grown adults laughable. I’m sure my job and lifestyle aren’t for everyone but the constant complaining from the insufferable pandemic-life-is-my-forever-lifestyle crowd is exhausting.

I wouldn’t be as anti-RTO if I actually worked with people in my office. Except I don’t. I commute 3 hours round trip to work by myself in a conference room. I’m on a project for the next 3 years with 15 people and not a single one is based in my city.

Similar story as my husband. Forced to commute to an office to sit by himself.

There are millions of us commuting for absolutely no reason but to change our laptop’s location.

So you’re saying both you and your husband commute hours per day and then when you get to the office there are zero opportunities to interact with another live person for the 8+ hours you’re there, like it’s an apocalyptic wasteland? I find that surprising for the millions of you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
So you’re saying both you and your husband commute hours per day and then when you get to the office there are zero opportunities to interact with another live person for the 8+ hours you’re there, like it’s an apocalyptic wasteland? I find that surprising for the millions of you.

New poster, but this is my experience. I am in one city, my manager is in another. My role is to coordinate with contacts across the US. So whether I am "in the office" or at home, I am on video calls and sending emails all day. Due to the structure of our floor, there are no occupied offices near me.

My interaction with people is when I take my computer to another floor to get it repaired and when I wave hello to the security guard at the desk inside the door.

So yes, I literally commute an hour each way to check a box. In my case we're hybrid and I only go in once a week, so I don't complain. I use it as an opportunity to print out stuff for later reading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The roads are so clogged now. Traffic is horrible. This is all so unnecessary when half these people can just stay home.

No one is taking Metro, yet it has never been so accessible.

I think people left metro when covid concerns were high and the roads were more empty. Eventually they will find their way back. My office subsidizes metro but when people were only coming in once a week they just paid for parking out of pocket. When they have to come in more, the cost is harder to justify when metro is free,

I never stopped taking metro except for April-June 2020. It has been increasingly crowded for the past six months. With commuters. A lot of folks are clearly back at least part of the time. (My office goes in twice a week and has since spring 2021.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Office-based work is also completely out of sync with the real estate market. Most people change jobs multiple times throughout their careers. It makes no sense to uproot a family and take on the expense of selling a home to work for a job that you have not have (voluntarily or involuntarily) in five years. I even know people in the DC that have sold and bought homes when they changed jobs (e.g., moving between MD and VA or PG and MoCo counties) to be closer to work. Owning a home is a huge deterrent to changing jobs when in office work is required, even within in the same metro area when commutes can be very long.

This is a great example of another tangential argument about RTO. My company has decided that we work best together in our office together in person, period full stop. Your real estate market concerns, child care arrangements, feelings about public transportation, etc are all irrelevant. If those are more of a priority for you please go somewhere else and we will find some other worker who better fits our company.

No one cares about your company with hostile supervisors. There is no way to take public transportation to these buildings. We have teens, no child care issues, but when you are working all day and a few hours at night it’s a driving and safety issue. Do you have to get up at 2am regularly to fix something? Have calls between 7-12 at night? Calls at 6-7 am?

We don’t have hostile supervisors, people who seem to like interacting with other humans in person do well in my company at any level. I do have to get up and fix something or have calls at night, and I’m compensated well for my time. Also my 12 and 14 year old kids take the metro and public busses without incident so I find these sudden misgiving about public transportation from grown adults laughable. I’m sure my job and lifestyle aren’t for everyone but the constant complaining from the insufferable pandemic-life-is-my-forever-lifestyle crowd is exhausting.

I wouldn’t be as anti-RTO if I actually worked with people in my office. Except I don’t. I commute 3 hours round trip to work by myself in a conference room. I’m on a project for the next 3 years with 15 people and not a single one is based in my city.

Similar story as my husband. Forced to commute to an office to sit by himself.

There are millions of us commuting for absolutely no reason but to change our laptop’s location.

So you’re saying both you and your husband commute hours per day and then when you get to the office there are zero opportunities to interact with another live person for the 8+ hours you’re there, like it’s an apocalyptic wasteland? I find that surprising for the millions of you.

I could interact with another person, but not anyone I work with or is part of my division. I of course say hello when I see someone in the restroom and say hi to the ladies who check me out in the cafeteria, but that’s it. Most of my building occupants don’t work for my company.

Even if I did try to get space with people from another division I’d need to step into a conference call for most of the day. I deal with high profile clients and spend most of my days on Teams sharing confidential information.

I think my husband occasionally sees people but no one he works with. Certainly not worth hours a week commuting which means he often has to take conference calls driving home. Surely that is less productive.

You’d be shocked how many people are in a similar position as we are.

Why do you think they have to have RTO requirements? If it were truly necessary they wouldn’t have to require it. Think about it. Companies keep trying and trying. It’s obviously unnecessary. Jobs where it is necessary were in the office FT during the pandemic or have been back for years.

[Anonymous]

My theory (based on observations, which are of course anecdotal) is that the people pushing RTO are leaders who never really did much real work— those for whom a days work was always about just being present.
Anyway, my office did something very similar to OP back in September and it hasn’t gone well. All employees within 50 miles are required to be in the office 3 days a week— 2 core days and 1 other day of choice. Most meetings still happen by zoom or teams, since a majority of people were hired remotely. My boss has only 3 people in the DC area on his team— the rest are all remote. Many days I don’t talk in person to a single soul while in office. So far I’ve counted 3 people who have left since the RTO began (and 2 people who left just before and I assume it was related). Which of course may be what leadership wanted: a ‘no layoff’ layoff. The problem, of course, is that the people who left are the best performers who had no trouble finding a new job. I am hopeful I will be the next out the door, pending a few upcoming interviews.
But leadership seems happy so everything is great. And they offer free single use bottled water, so who wouldn’t want to drive into DC and do their bit to destroy the earth?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My theory (based on observations, which are of course anecdotal) is that the people pushing RTO are leaders who never really did much real work— those for whom a days work was always about just being present.
Anyway, my office did something very similar to OP back in September and it hasn’t gone well. All employees within 50 miles are required to be in the office 3 days a week— 2 core days and 1 other day of choice. Most meetings still happen by zoom or teams, since a majority of people were hired remotely. My boss has only 3 people in the DC area on his team— the rest are all remote. Many days I don’t talk in person to a single soul while in office. So far I’ve counted 3 people who have left since the RTO began (and 2 people who left just before and I assume it was related). Which of course may be what leadership wanted: a ‘no layoff’ layoff. The problem, of course, is that the people who left are the best performers who had no trouble finding a new job. I am hopeful I will be the next out the door, pending a few upcoming interviews.
But leadership seems happy so everything is great. And they offer free single use bottled water, so who wouldn’t want to drive into DC and do their bit to destroy the earth?

I wouldn't consider this a theory, this is what we've observed too.