RTO and employees who live outside the DC metro

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Office-based work is also completely out of sync with the real estate market. Most people change jobs multiple times throughout their careers. It makes no sense to uproot a family and take on the expense of selling a home to work for a job that you have not have (voluntarily or involuntarily) in five years. I even know people in the DC that have sold and bought homes when they changed jobs (e.g., moving between MD and VA or PG and MoCo counties) to be closer to work. Owning a home is a huge deterrent to changing jobs when in office work is required, even within in the same metro area when commutes can be very long.

This is a great example of another tangential argument about RTO. My company has decided that we work best together in our office together in person, period full stop. Your real estate market concerns, child care arrangements, feelings about public transportation, etc are all irrelevant. If those are more of a priority for you please go somewhere else and we will find some other worker who better fits our company.

JFC, this ^^^

You know how I know that all those concerns can be managed or, if not, the worker can go elsewhere? Hospitals.

Hospitals are typically the largest employer in any given city and with very few exceptions (HR, IT), EVERYONE must report in person to their job. To perform brain surgery, to empty the trash, to infuse chemotherapy into a patient, to clean up your body fluids, to perform your MRI.

We. figure. it. out. Because we have to. We do not move to Faquier County if our job is in Silver Spring, and we don't try to get away with not having childcare for our toddler because ... we're working. We don't whine about snow or metro, because we are required to show up even when it's raining!. Somehow, we get ourselves there.

If any of this is insurmountable, and in fairness, these are all legit concerns, then we select a different employer.

If gigantic hospital systems full of workers -- at every income and education leve-- l can execute, then so can you!

NO. Stay off the freaking roads so that we hospital workers can get around. We don't want you back out on our roads. It's been nice.

[Anonymous]

There's a differentiation between high performers - they will always be able to work from anywhere, and were before COVID. The vast majority of workers are replaceable, so they will be forced to go back to work. Sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand how much longer this can go on. Commuting to sit on Teams calls all day with people in other cities is ridiculous. If they want us in the office they should take away video conferencing and Teams messaging capabilities.

Ok. Will do. From now on ALL my meetings are in person. Unless you are in leave you better be there. I have a feeling you'll be on a PIP by the end of the week. Lazy

So you don’t work for a global company? Very few people these days can have in-person only meetings. The people I have meetings with often don’t even work in the United States.

Your comment is silly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Expectations changed during the pandemic - a higher level of productivity and more availability outside of normal business hours became the norm. The fact that workers weren't commuting facilitated this.

Now RTO companies are seeking to preserve those gains while ALSO asking workers to add the commute back in. And that's why workers are so hostile - they really are worse off than they were pre-pandemic if they RTO.

Everything seems more spread out too in terms of job responsibilities. Most people I know who are office workers work primarily with people not physically located in their office. Especially anyone with clients.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Office-based work is also completely out of sync with the real estate market. Most people change jobs multiple times throughout their careers. It makes no sense to uproot a family and take on the expense of selling a home to work for a job that you have not have (voluntarily or involuntarily) in five years. I even know people in the DC that have sold and bought homes when they changed jobs (e.g., moving between MD and VA or PG and MoCo counties) to be closer to work. Owning a home is a huge deterrent to changing jobs when in office work is required, even within in the same metro area when commutes can be very long.

This is a great example of another tangential argument about RTO. My company has decided that we work best together in our office together in person, period full stop. Your real estate market concerns, child care arrangements, feelings about public transportation, etc are all irrelevant. If those are more of a priority for you please go somewhere else and we will find some other worker who better fits our company.

JFC, this ^^^

You know how I know that all those concerns can be managed or, if not, the worker can go elsewhere? Hospitals.

Hospitals are typically the largest employer in any given city and with very few exceptions (HR, IT), EVERYONE must report in person to their job. To perform brain surgery, to empty the trash, to infuse chemotherapy into a patient, to clean up your body fluids, to perform your MRI.

We. figure. it. out. Because we have to. We do not move to Faquier County if our job is in Silver Spring, and we don't try to get away with not having childcare for our toddler because ... we're working. We don't whine about snow or metro, because we are required to show up even when it's raining!. Somehow, we get ourselves there.

If any of this is insurmountable, and in fairness, these are all legit concerns, then we select a different employer.

If gigantic hospital systems full of workers -- at every income and education leve-- l can execute, then so can you!

NO. Stay off the freaking roads so that we hospital workers can get around. We don't want you back out on our roads. It's been nice.

Tons of more cars will be on the roads and this is a good point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do people keep trying to make this an Amazon focused thread when that was not what OP posted? Maybe start a new one?

Amazon is starting rto five days a week soon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Expectations changed during the pandemic - a higher level of productivity and more availability outside of normal business hours became the norm. The fact that workers weren't commuting facilitated this.

Now RTO companies are seeking to preserve those gains while ALSO asking workers to add the commute back in. And that's why workers are so hostile - they really are worse off than they were pre-pandemic if they RTO.

Exactly. The 9-5 lawyers don’t get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand how much longer this can go on. Commuting to sit on Teams calls all day with people in other cities is ridiculous. If they want us in the office they should take away video conferencing and Teams messaging capabilities.

Ok. Will do. From now on ALL my meetings are in person. Unless you are in leave you better be there. I have a feeling you'll be on a PIP by the end of the week. Lazy

Yea for you. That’s not normal except in your world. My spouse has zero in person meetings. Many customers are not in the us or are in Seattle or other areas. I’ll be good with a focus then pip as then he’ll get a good offer to leave. We’ll be fine. B

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand how much longer this can go on. Commuting to sit on Teams calls all day with people in other cities is ridiculous. If they want us in the office they should take away video conferencing and Teams messaging capabilities.

Ok. Will do. From now on ALL my meetings are in person. Unless you are in leave you better be there. I have a feeling you'll be on a PIP by the end of the week. Lazy

Yea for you. That’s not normal except in your world. My spouse has zero in person meetings. Many customers are not in the us or are in Seattle or other areas. I’ll be good with a focus then pip as then he’ll get a good offer to leave. We’ll be fine. B

I think a lot of the RTO supporters work for businesses where everyone is located in the same office. They truly can’t get their head around the fact many of us commute to go work by ourselves in another location. Most businesses would have to completely revamp their business models to have employees sitting and working around other employees on their immediate team.

Early in my career I worked with and around my team. Now I haven’t done that in years. My team members are spread out across the world. Today I am driving into the office to have a meeting with someone in Chicago, followed by a meeting with someone in NY, and later with my colleague in SF. I don’t think someone working for a small company that isn’t global can understand this.

[Anonymous]

Everyone on these threads always talks about how much more work they get done. But on my mom’s group- the tone is totally different. They are upset about how they can’t get any work done, they don’t have childcare for their 6m-3 year olds and do a lot of chores during the day. Which also is what I see at my own work. There’s much less productivity from remote workers.

Give supervisors more control over their employees and then remote work might actually work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The roads are so clogged now. Traffic is horrible. This is all so unnecessary when half these people can just stay home.

No one is taking Metro, yet it has never been so accessible.

Metro is miserable and unsafe. No thanks.

Do you ride it? I have been riding it for 30 years safely and not usually miserably (especially when I envision the drivers going over the ALB)

Are you a guy? It’s frequently a gross experience for women. I do not need another guy rubbing himself against my winter coat.

No I’m a 50 year old woman and have been taking bus and metro alone since l was a teenager. This has never happened to me. I’ve been harassed in the street and at work many times (less so now that I’m older) and public transport is safer from sexual harassment than just walking down the street. Even safe now - everyone is on their phone now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand how much longer this can go on. Commuting to sit on Teams calls all day with people in other cities is ridiculous. If they want us in the office they should take away video conferencing and Teams messaging capabilities.

Ok. Will do. From now on ALL my meetings are in person. Unless you are in leave you better be there. I have a feeling you'll be on a PIP by the end of the week. Lazy

lol you gonna pay to fly everyone in to all these meetings? Most large companies employ people in different cities. My DH has never had a boss at his current job that lives in the DC area. Most people on his IT projects are spread across the country. I think be has one coworker who lives in Faquier or something, which is like an hour + from him so they’ve never met IRL. It would cost a lot of money to get all these people to in person meetings. Thankfully his company has no in office requirements. Their stock shows this is a working out well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone on these threads always talks about how much more work they get done. But on my mom’s group- the tone is totally different. They are upset about how they can’t get any work done, they don’t have childcare for their 6m-3 year olds and do a lot of chores during the day. Which also is what I see at my own work. There’s much less productivity from remote workers.

Give supervisors more control over their employees and then remote work might actually work.

Weird how they don’t post stories like that anywhere else. Almost like you’re making it up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand how much longer this can go on. Commuting to sit on Teams calls all day with people in other cities is ridiculous. If they want us in the office they should take away video conferencing and Teams messaging capabilities.

Ok. Will do. From now on ALL my meetings are in person. Unless you are in leave you better be there. I have a feeling you'll be on a PIP by the end of the week. Lazy

Yea for you. That’s not normal except in your world. My spouse has zero in person meetings. Many customers are not in the us or are in Seattle or other areas. I’ll be good with a focus then pip as then he’ll get a good offer to leave. We’ll be fine. B

More and more companies aren’t giving severances to people on PiPs who are let go for cause FYI especially those who refuse to RTO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand how much longer this can go on. Commuting to sit on Teams calls all day with people in other cities is ridiculous. If they want us in the office they should take away video conferencing and Teams messaging capabilities.

Ok. Will do. From now on ALL my meetings are in person. Unless you are in leave you better be there. I have a feeling you'll be on a PIP by the end of the week. Lazy

Yea for you. That’s not normal except in your world. My spouse has zero in person meetings. Many customers are not in the us or are in Seattle or other areas. I’ll be good with a focus then pip as then he’ll get a good offer to leave. We’ll be fine. B

More and more companies aren’t giving severances to people on PiPs who are let go for cause FYI especially those who refuse to RTO.

Source?