RTO and employees who live outside the DC metro

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Office-based work is also completely out of sync with the real estate market. Most people change jobs multiple times throughout their careers. It makes no sense to uproot a family and take on the expense of selling a home to work for a job that you have not have (voluntarily or involuntarily) in five years. I even know people in the DC that have sold and bought homes when they changed jobs (e.g., moving between MD and VA or PG and MoCo counties) to be closer to work. Owning a home is a huge deterrent to changing jobs when in office work is required, even within in the same metro area when commutes can be very long.

This is a great example of another tangential argument about RTO. My company has decided that we work best together in our office together in person, period full stop. Your real estate market concerns, child care arrangements, feelings about public transportation, etc are all irrelevant. If those are more of a priority for you please go somewhere else and we will find some other worker who better fits our company.

JFC, this ^^^

You know how I know that all those concerns can be managed or, if not, the worker can go elsewhere? Hospitals.

Hospitals are typically the largest employer in any given city and with very few exceptions (HR, IT), EVERYONE must report in person to their job. To perform brain surgery, to empty the trash, to infuse chemotherapy into a patient, to clean up your body fluids, to perform your MRI.

We. figure. it. out. Because we have to. We do not move to Faquier County if our job is in Silver Spring, and we don't try to get away with not having childcare for our toddler because ... we're working. We don't whine about snow or metro, because we are required to show up even when it's raining!. Somehow, we get ourselves there.

If any of this is insurmountable, and in fairness, these are all legit concerns, then we select a different employer.

If gigantic hospital systems full of workers -- at every income and education leve-- l can execute, then so can you!

You do realize many of us bought our houses years ago and jobs in IT change often, sometimes every few years so picking up and moving is not really an option. So, if you live in Silver Spring and the job is in VA, you commute. The difference between being in an hospital and IT is IT can do work remotely and hospital you cannot. You choose that job, as did others. Many were working remotely before the pandemic and choose the job because it was remote and now being told they have to go into the office.

In our situaiton, the worker is working 10 hour days at home - often flexing for early morning and late night calls and being on call at night to fix things, so at 2 AM they could be working for an hour or two. Safety wise, is that a good plan after working from 8-10 PM on calls, then up at 2-3 to fix something and be in the office by 8 am, work till 5, for a 60-90 minute commute home. So, what's going to happen now is no more early or late calls or 2 AM fixes. Strict 8-4/9-5 schedule. Employer will lose out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Office-based work is also completely out of sync with the real estate market. Most people change jobs multiple times throughout their careers. It makes no sense to uproot a family and take on the expense of selling a home to work for a job that you have not have (voluntarily or involuntarily) in five years. I even know people in the DC that have sold and bought homes when they changed jobs (e.g., moving between MD and VA or PG and MoCo counties) to be closer to work. Owning a home is a huge deterrent to changing jobs when in office work is required, even within in the same metro area when commutes can be very long.

This is a great example of another tangential argument about RTO. My company has decided that we work best together in our office together in person, period full stop. Your real estate market concerns, child care arrangements, feelings about public transportation, etc are all irrelevant. If those are more of a priority for you please go somewhere else and we will find some other worker who better fits our company.

No one cares about your company with hostile supervisors. There is no way to take public transportation to these buildings. We have teens, no child care issues, but when you are working all day and a few hours at night it’s a driving and safety issue. Do you have to get up at 2am regularly to fix something? Have calls between 7-12 at night? Calls at 6-7 am?

We don’t have hostile supervisors, people who seem to like interacting with other humans in person do well in my company at any level. I do have to get up and fix something or have calls at night, and I’m compensated well for my time. Also my 12 and 14 year old kids take the metro and public busses without incident so I find these sudden misgiving about public transportation from grown adults laughable. I’m sure my job and lifestyle aren’t for everyone but the constant complaining from the insufferable pandemic-life-is-my-forever-lifestyle crowd is exhausting.

I wouldn’t be as anti-RTO if I actually worked with people in my office. Except I don’t. I commute 3 hours round trip to work by myself in a conference room. I’m on a project for the next 3 years with 15 people and not a single one is based in my city.

Similar story as my husband. Forced to commute to an office to sit by himself.

There are millions of us commuting for absolutely no reason but to change our laptop’s location.

So you’re saying both you and your husband commute hours per day and then when you get to the office there are zero opportunities to interact with another live person for the 8+ hours you’re there, like it’s an apocalyptic wasteland? I find that surprising for the millions of you.

NP, this actually is the case for DH and I, both lawyers. We joke on his in office day about whether or not he made it through the day without interacting with a single person. More often than not he does. I see people in my office, but we are not “collaborating”, and I am the one that doesn’t leave to go to lunch etc. because I do my 8 hours and then leave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Office-based work is also completely out of sync with the real estate market. Most people change jobs multiple times throughout their careers. It makes no sense to uproot a family and take on the expense of selling a home to work for a job that you have not have (voluntarily or involuntarily) in five years. I even know people in the DC that have sold and bought homes when they changed jobs (e.g., moving between MD and VA or PG and MoCo counties) to be closer to work. Owning a home is a huge deterrent to changing jobs when in office work is required, even within in the same metro area when commutes can be very long.

This is a great example of another tangential argument about RTO. My company has decided that we work best together in our office together in person, period full stop. Your real estate market concerns, child care arrangements, feelings about public transportation, etc are all irrelevant. If those are more of a priority for you please go somewhere else and we will find some other worker who better fits our company.

No one cares about your company with hostile supervisors. There is no way to take public transportation to these buildings. We have teens, no child care issues, but when you are working all day and a few hours at night it’s a driving and safety issue. Do you have to get up at 2am regularly to fix something? Have calls between 7-12 at night? Calls at 6-7 am?

We don’t have hostile supervisors, people who seem to like interacting with other humans in person do well in my company at any level. I do have to get up and fix something or have calls at night, and I’m compensated well for my time. Also my 12 and 14 year old kids take the metro and public busses without incident so I find these sudden misgiving about public transportation from grown adults laughable. I’m sure my job and lifestyle aren’t for everyone but the constant complaining from the insufferable pandemic-life-is-my-forever-lifestyle crowd is exhausting.

I wouldn’t be as anti-RTO if I actually worked with people in my office. Except I don’t. I commute 3 hours round trip to work by myself in a conference room. I’m on a project for the next 3 years with 15 people and not a single one is based in my city.

Similar story as my husband. Forced to commute to an office to sit by himself.

There are millions of us commuting for absolutely no reason but to change our laptop’s location.

So you’re saying both you and your husband commute hours per day and then when you get to the office there are zero opportunities to interact with another live person for the 8+ hours you’re there, like it’s an apocalyptic wasteland? I find that surprising for the millions of you.

I could interact with another person, but not anyone I work with or is part of my division. I of course say hello when I see someone in the restroom and say hi to the ladies who check me out in the cafeteria, but that’s it. Most of my building occupants don’t work for my company.

Even if I did try to get space with people from another division I’d need to step into a conference call for most of the day. I deal with high profile clients and spend most of my days on Teams sharing confidential information.

I think my husband occasionally sees people but no one he works with. Certainly not worth hours a week commuting which means he often has to take conference calls driving home. Surely that is less productive.

You’d be shocked how many people are in a similar position as we are.

Why do you think they have to have RTO requirements? If it were truly necessary they wouldn’t have to require it. Think about it. Companies keep trying and trying. It’s obviously unnecessary. Jobs where it is necessary were in the office FT during the pandemic or have been back for years.

This. If your office in October 2024 is still fighting to make people return to the office, the reality is those jobs don’t actually need to be done in person. There may be political reasons, etc. for pushing those workers to return, but after 4+ years of not being in the office it’s not because the work can’t get done remotely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Office-based work is also completely out of sync with the real estate market. Most people change jobs multiple times throughout their careers. It makes no sense to uproot a family and take on the expense of selling a home to work for a job that you have not have (voluntarily or involuntarily) in five years. I even know people in the DC that have sold and bought homes when they changed jobs (e.g., moving between MD and VA or PG and MoCo counties) to be closer to work. Owning a home is a huge deterrent to changing jobs when in office work is required, even within in the same metro area when commutes can be very long.

This is a great example of another tangential argument about RTO. My company has decided that we work best together in our office together in person, period full stop. Your real estate market concerns, child care arrangements, feelings about public transportation, etc are all irrelevant. If those are more of a priority for you please go somewhere else and we will find some other worker who better fits our company.

No one cares about your company with hostile supervisors. There is no way to take public transportation to these buildings. We have teens, no child care issues, but when you are working all day and a few hours at night it’s a driving and safety issue. Do you have to get up at 2am regularly to fix something? Have calls between 7-12 at night? Calls at 6-7 am?

We don’t have hostile supervisors, people who seem to like interacting with other humans in person do well in my company at any level. I do have to get up and fix something or have calls at night, and I’m compensated well for my time. Also my 12 and 14 year old kids take the metro and public busses without incident so I find these sudden misgiving about public transportation from grown adults laughable. I’m sure my job and lifestyle aren’t for everyone but the constant complaining from the insufferable pandemic-life-is-my-forever-lifestyle crowd is exhausting.

I wouldn’t be as anti-RTO if I actually worked with people in my office. Except I don’t. I commute 3 hours round trip to work by myself in a conference room. I’m on a project for the next 3 years with 15 people and not a single one is based in my city.

Similar story as my husband. Forced to commute to an office to sit by himself.

There are millions of us commuting for absolutely no reason but to change our laptop’s location.

So you’re saying both you and your husband commute hours per day and then when you get to the office there are zero opportunities to interact with another live person for the 8+ hours you’re there, like it’s an apocalyptic wasteland? I find that surprising for the millions of you.

NP, this actually is the case for DH and I, both lawyers. We joke on his in office day about whether or not he made it through the day without interacting with a single person. More often than not he does. I see people in my office, but we are not “collaborating”, and I am the one that doesn’t leave to go to lunch etc. because I do my 8 hours and then leave.

In It, it really depends on the job but with these global companies it poses an issue because of the different time zones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Office-based work is also completely out of sync with the real estate market. Most people change jobs multiple times throughout their careers. It makes no sense to uproot a family and take on the expense of selling a home to work for a job that you have not have (voluntarily or involuntarily) in five years. I even know people in the DC that have sold and bought homes when they changed jobs (e.g., moving between MD and VA or PG and MoCo counties) to be closer to work. Owning a home is a huge deterrent to changing jobs when in office work is required, even within in the same metro area when commutes can be very long.

This is a great example of another tangential argument about RTO. My company has decided that we work best together in our office together in person, period full stop. Your real estate market concerns, child care arrangements, feelings about public transportation, etc are all irrelevant. If those are more of a priority for you please go somewhere else and we will find some other worker who better fits our company.

No one cares about your company with hostile supervisors. There is no way to take public transportation to these buildings. We have teens, no child care issues, but when you are working all day and a few hours at night it’s a driving and safety issue. Do you have to get up at 2am regularly to fix something? Have calls between 7-12 at night? Calls at 6-7 am?

We don’t have hostile supervisors, people who seem to like interacting with other humans in person do well in my company at any level. I do have to get up and fix something or have calls at night, and I’m compensated well for my time. Also my 12 and 14 year old kids take the metro and public busses without incident so I find these sudden misgiving about public transportation from grown adults laughable. I’m sure my job and lifestyle aren’t for everyone but the constant complaining from the insufferable pandemic-life-is-my-forever-lifestyle crowd is exhausting.

I wouldn’t be as anti-RTO if I actually worked with people in my office. Except I don’t. I commute 3 hours round trip to work by myself in a conference room. I’m on a project for the next 3 years with 15 people and not a single one is based in my city.

Similar story as my husband. Forced to commute to an office to sit by himself.

There are millions of us commuting for absolutely no reason but to change our laptop’s location.

So you’re saying both you and your husband commute hours per day and then when you get to the office there are zero opportunities to interact with another live person for the 8+ hours you’re there, like it’s an apocalyptic wasteland? I find that surprising for the millions of you.

NP, this actually is the case for DH and I, both lawyers. We joke on his in office day about whether or not he made it through the day without interacting with a single person. More often than not he does. I see people in my office, but we are not “collaborating”, and I am the one that doesn’t leave to go to lunch etc. because I do my 8 hours and then leave.

You are fortunate if you only work 8 hours and no work at home. That would be ideal, but that's not the reality for most. There are early morning and late night calls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Office-based work is also completely out of sync with the real estate market. Most people change jobs multiple times throughout their careers. It makes no sense to uproot a family and take on the expense of selling a home to work for a job that you have not have (voluntarily or involuntarily) in five years. I even know people in the DC that have sold and bought homes when they changed jobs (e.g., moving between MD and VA or PG and MoCo counties) to be closer to work. Owning a home is a huge deterrent to changing jobs when in office work is required, even within in the same metro area when commutes can be very long.

This is a great example of another tangential argument about RTO. My company has decided that we work best together in our office together in person, period full stop. Your real estate market concerns, child care arrangements, feelings about public transportation, etc are all irrelevant. If those are more of a priority for you please go somewhere else and we will find some other worker who better fits our company.

No one cares about your company with hostile supervisors. There is no way to take public transportation to these buildings. We have teens, no child care issues, but when you are working all day and a few hours at night it’s a driving and safety issue. Do you have to get up at 2am regularly to fix something? Have calls between 7-12 at night? Calls at 6-7 am?

We don’t have hostile supervisors, people who seem to like interacting with other humans in person do well in my company at any level. I do have to get up and fix something or have calls at night, and I’m compensated well for my time. Also my 12 and 14 year old kids take the metro and public busses without incident so I find these sudden misgiving about public transportation from grown adults laughable. I’m sure my job and lifestyle aren’t for everyone but the constant complaining from the insufferable pandemic-life-is-my-forever-lifestyle crowd is exhausting.

I wouldn’t be as anti-RTO if I actually worked with people in my office. Except I don’t. I commute 3 hours round trip to work by myself in a conference room. I’m on a project for the next 3 years with 15 people and not a single one is based in my city.

Similar story as my husband. Forced to commute to an office to sit by himself.

There are millions of us commuting for absolutely no reason but to change our laptop’s location.

So you’re saying both you and your husband commute hours per day and then when you get to the office there are zero opportunities to interact with another live person for the 8+ hours you’re there, like it’s an apocalyptic wasteland? I find that surprising for the millions of you.

NP, this actually is the case for DH and I, both lawyers. We joke on his in office day about whether or not he made it through the day without interacting with a single person. More often than not he does. I see people in my office, but we are not “collaborating”, and I am the one that doesn’t leave to go to lunch etc. because I do my 8 hours and then leave.

In It, it really depends on the job but with these global companies it poses an issue because of the different time zones.

I don't think these lawyers get the difference in jobs and functions. They don't need to talk to someone regularly in a different time zone, train them, etc.

[Anonymous]

Why do people keep trying to make this an Amazon focused thread when that was not what OP posted? Maybe start a new one?

[Anonymous]

The over employed people are ruining it for.everybody

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Office-based work is also completely out of sync with the real estate market. Most people change jobs multiple times throughout their careers. It makes no sense to uproot a family and take on the expense of selling a home to work for a job that you have not have (voluntarily or involuntarily) in five years. I even know people in the DC that have sold and bought homes when they changed jobs (e.g., moving between MD and VA or PG and MoCo counties) to be closer to work. Owning a home is a huge deterrent to changing jobs when in office work is required, even within in the same metro area when commutes can be very long.

This is a great example of another tangential argument about RTO. My company has decided that we work best together in our office together in person, period full stop. Your real estate market concerns, child care arrangements, feelings about public transportation, etc are all irrelevant. If those are more of a priority for you please go somewhere else and we will find some other worker who better fits our company.

No one cares about your company with hostile supervisors. There is no way to take public transportation to these buildings. We have teens, no child care issues, but when you are working all day and a few hours at night it’s a driving and safety issue. Do you have to get up at 2am regularly to fix something? Have calls between 7-12 at night? Calls at 6-7 am?

We don’t have hostile supervisors, people who seem to like interacting with other humans in person do well in my company at any level. I do have to get up and fix something or have calls at night, and I’m compensated well for my time. Also my 12 and 14 year old kids take the metro and public busses without incident so I find these sudden misgiving about public transportation from grown adults laughable. I’m sure my job and lifestyle aren’t for everyone but the constant complaining from the insufferable pandemic-life-is-my-forever-lifestyle crowd is exhausting.

I wouldn’t be as anti-RTO if I actually worked with people in my office. Except I don’t. I commute 3 hours round trip to work by myself in a conference room. I’m on a project for the next 3 years with 15 people and not a single one is based in my city.

Similar story as my husband. Forced to commute to an office to sit by himself.

There are millions of us commuting for absolutely no reason but to change our laptop’s location.

So you’re saying both you and your husband commute hours per day and then when you get to the office there are zero opportunities to interact with another live person for the 8+ hours you’re there, like it’s an apocalyptic wasteland? I find that surprising for the millions of you.

I could interact with another person, but not anyone I work with or is part of my division. I of course say hello when I see someone in the restroom and say hi to the ladies who check me out in the cafeteria, but that’s it. Most of my building occupants don’t work for my company.

Even if I did try to get space with people from another division I’d need to step into a conference call for most of the day. I deal with high profile clients and spend most of my days on Teams sharing confidential information.

I think my husband occasionally sees people but no one he works with. Certainly not worth hours a week commuting which means he often has to take conference calls driving home. Surely that is less productive.

You’d be shocked how many people are in a similar position as we are.

Why do you think they have to have RTO requirements? If it were truly necessary they wouldn’t have to require it. Think about it. Companies keep trying and trying. It’s obviously unnecessary. Jobs where it is necessary were in the office FT during the pandemic or have been back for years.

This. If your office in October 2024 is still fighting to make people return to the office, the reality is those jobs don’t actually need to be done in person. There may be political reasons, etc. for pushing those workers to return, but after 4+ years of not being in the office it’s not because the work can’t get done remotely.

[phone]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Office-based work is also completely out of sync with the real estate market. Most people change jobs multiple times throughout their careers. It makes no sense to uproot a family and take on the expense of selling a home to work for a job that you have not have (voluntarily or involuntarily) in five years. I even know people in the DC that have sold and bought homes when they changed jobs (e.g., moving between MD and VA or PG and MoCo counties) to be closer to work. Owning a home is a huge deterrent to changing jobs when in office work is required, even within in the same metro area when commutes can be very long.

This is a great example of another tangential argument about RTO. My company has decided that we work best together in our office together in person, period full stop. Your real estate market concerns, child care arrangements, feelings about public transportation, etc are all irrelevant. If those are more of a priority for you please go somewhere else and we will find some other worker who better fits our company.

No one cares about your company with hostile supervisors. There is no way to take public transportation to these buildings. We have teens, no child care issues, but when you are working all day and a few hours at night it’s a driving and safety issue. Do you have to get up at 2am regularly to fix something? Have calls between 7-12 at night? Calls at 6-7 am?

We don’t have hostile supervisors, people who seem to like interacting with other humans in person do well in my company at any level. I do have to get up and fix something or have calls at night, and I’m compensated well for my time. Also my 12 and 14 year old kids take the metro and public busses without incident so I find these sudden misgiving about public transportation from grown adults laughable. I’m sure my job and lifestyle aren’t for everyone but the constant complaining from the insufferable pandemic-life-is-my-forever-lifestyle crowd is exhausting.

I wouldn’t be as anti-RTO if I actually worked with people in my office. Except I don’t. I commute 3 hours round trip to work by myself in a conference room. I’m on a project for the next 3 years with 15 people and not a single one is based in my city.

Similar story as my husband. Forced to commute to an office to sit by himself.

There are millions of us commuting for absolutely no reason but to change our laptop’s location.

So you’re saying both you and your husband commute hours per day and then when you get to the office there are zero opportunities to interact with another live person for the 8+ hours you’re there, like it’s an apocalyptic wasteland? I find that surprising for the millions of you.

NP, this actually is the case for DH and I, both lawyers. We joke on his in office day about whether or not he made it through the day without interacting with a single person. More often than not he does. I see people in my office, but we are not “collaborating”, and I am the one that doesn’t leave to go to lunch etc. because I do my 8 hours and then leave.

This. Even if I see people in my office, we aren’t working together.

The fact my employer is making me commute hours a week to work by myself in a conference room makes me strongly dislike my employer. I figure all sorts of other terrible decisions are made by management.

[Anonymous]

I have faith this will work out and I won’t be working alone for the rest of my career from a conference room. Why? It’s been four years and companies are still pushing for RTO. Clearly they haven’t been successful.

Everyone who can work from home successfully knows RTO is unnecessary. All a company has to do is stop monitoring and pushing RTO, and employees will be back to working on their laptop from home.

My company went nuclear and produces reports on attendance. More attention is paid to RTO than actual work or productivity. I get the impression I could just go in every day and not really do anything but sit there.

I don’t think RTO is sustainable and something will be the catalyst to stop this nonsense. We have the technology to work from home when we didn’t pre-Covid.

[Anonymous]

Expectations changed during the pandemic - a higher level of productivity and more availability outside of normal business hours became the norm. The fact that workers weren't commuting facilitated this.

Now RTO companies are seeking to preserve those gains while ALSO asking workers to add the commute back in. And that's why workers are so hostile - they really are worse off than they were pre-pandemic if they RTO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand how much longer this can go on. Commuting to sit on Teams calls all day with people in other cities is ridiculous. If they want us in the office they should take away video conferencing and Teams messaging capabilities.

Ok. Will do. From now on ALL my meetings are in person. Unless you are in leave you better be there. I have a feeling you'll be on a PIP by the end of the week. Lazy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The funny thing about RTO was my husband was work from home long before covid and its really unfair to now mandate it after the original agreement before covid policies was work from home. We are 60-90 minutes from the office. Metro would be even longer when you factor in driving to the metro, parking, metro, 2 busses to the office.

Collaborating is ironic as they don't work in the same offices or even countries so they will still do it online or by phone and they don't have enough desk space for everyone to sit together. We are half joking about buying a portable desk and chair because there are no assigned desks and not enough space so to drive out an hour or more to sit on the floor is absurd.

You must be so smart...get a new job

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand how much longer this can go on. Commuting to sit on Teams calls all day with people in other cities is ridiculous. If they want us in the office they should take away video conferencing and Teams messaging capabilities.

Ok. Will do. From now on ALL my meetings are in person. Unless you are in leave you better be there. I have a feeling you'll be on a PIP by the end of the week. Lazy

lol like you employed a single person