RTO and employees who live outside the DC metro

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My work located in DC is mandating RTO at 2-3 days per week in 2025 for employees who live as far away as Howard and Fauquier counties. Meanwhile, since the start of the pandemic, the company has hired many employees who don't live in the DC metro and many have moved out. I suspect half of employees including the C-suite don't live here. Meanwhile, there are managers living at the beach in Florida lecturing their staff on the importance of coming into the office. This seems very hypocritical to me and is going to create a lot of problems. Have other companies handled this so poorly?

I think part of the issue is pay. They pay you a premium because you live in Dc, so they expect you to be in the office.

Employees based in DC are paid the same as those elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

The funny thing about RTO was my husband was work from home long before covid and its really unfair to now mandate it after the original agreement before covid policies was work from home. We are 60-90 minutes from the office. Metro would be even longer when you factor in driving to the metro, parking, metro, 2 busses to the office.

Collaborating is ironic as they don't work in the same offices or even countries so they will still do it online or by phone and they don't have enough desk space for everyone to sit together. We are half joking about buying a portable desk and chair because there are no assigned desks and not enough space so to drive out an hour or more to sit on the floor is absurd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The funny thing about RTO was my husband was work from home long before covid and its really unfair to now mandate it after the original agreement before covid policies was work from home. We are 60-90 minutes from the office. Metro would be even longer when you factor in driving to the metro, parking, metro, 2 busses to the office.

Collaborating is ironic as they don't work in the same offices or even countries so they will still do it online or by phone and they don't have enough desk space for everyone to sit together. We are half joking about buying a portable desk and chair because there are no assigned desks and not enough space so to drive out an hour or more to sit on the floor is absurd.

This is my office too. I think it is all about optics. My new employee works in Utah. It is easier for me to interact with him when I am home so I do not bother those around me. We used to go in 1 day a week. Now it is 50%..and no we do not have assigned desks. Even if a team member and I are in on the same day we might be sitting on different floors and never see each other. I will retire earlier for sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My work located in DC is mandating RTO at 2-3 days per week in 2025 for employees who live as far away as Howard and Fauquier counties. Meanwhile, since the start of the pandemic, the company has hired many employees who don't live in the DC metro and many have moved out. I suspect half of employees including the C-suite don't live here. Meanwhile, there are managers living at the beach in Florida lecturing their staff on the importance of coming into the office. This seems very hypocritical to me and is going to create a lot of problems. Have other companies handled this so poorly?

I think part of the issue is pay. They pay you a premium because you live in Dc, so they expect you to be in the office.

Employees based in DC are paid the same as those elsewhere.

Not usually. My company and I know offer more salary (and say so on the job description) if you live in DC and other areas usually 10-15% more. I have seen and heard of others as well- DC, NYC, SF, Seattle and sometimes CO have a higher salary because if HCOL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The roads are so clogged now. Traffic is horrible. This is all so unnecessary when half these people can just stay home.

Seriously. It’s so ridiculous

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My work located in DC is mandating RTO at 2-3 days per week in 2025 for employees who live as far away as Howard and Fauquier counties. Meanwhile, since the start of the pandemic, the company has hired many employees who don't live in the DC metro and many have moved out. I suspect half of employees including the C-suite don't live here. Meanwhile, there are managers living at the beach in Florida lecturing their staff on the importance of coming into the office. This seems very hypocritical to me and is going to create a lot of problems. Have other companies handled this so poorly?

I think part of the issue is pay. They pay you a premium because you live in Dc, so they expect you to be in the office.

Employees based in DC are paid the same as those elsewhere.

Not usually. My company and I know offer more salary (and say so on the job description) if you live in DC and other areas usually 10-15% more. I have seen and heard of others as well- DC, NYC, SF, Seattle and sometimes CO have a higher salary because if HCOL.

10% more after taxes isn't that much. We couldn't afford to move near work, nor would we as its too disruptive. So, instead of 10 hours of work, it will be 8 hours plus a 2+ hour commute. The company is also going to lose out as there will be no more flexibility, no more late night calls, etc. Work straight hours and thats it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The funny thing about RTO was my husband was work from home long before covid and its really unfair to now mandate it after the original agreement before covid policies was work from home. We are 60-90 minutes from the office. Metro would be even longer when you factor in driving to the metro, parking, metro, 2 busses to the office.

Collaborating is ironic as they don't work in the same offices or even countries so they will still do it online or by phone and they don't have enough desk space for everyone to sit together. We are half joking about buying a portable desk and chair because there are no assigned desks and not enough space so to drive out an hour or more to sit on the floor is absurd.

This is my office too. I think it is all about optics. My new employee works in Utah. It is easier for me to interact with him when I am home so I do not bother those around me. We used to go in 1 day a week. Now it is 50%..and no we do not have assigned desks. Even if a team member and I are in on the same day we might be sitting on different floors and never see each other. I will retire earlier for sure.

This is what they want. Its for layoffs without saying layoffs. My husband's supervisor lives on the other side of the country, many co-workers are all over the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The roads are so clogged now. Traffic is horrible. This is all so unnecessary when half these people can just stay home.

Seriously. It’s so ridiculous

I was never anti-RTO. But, we now have a senior leader who is so relentlessly pro-RTO in the face of so much evidence about people spending their whole day on Zoom calls with other employees elsewhere in the country. This person’s zealotry has really opened my eyes to the nonsensical nature of much RTO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The funny thing about RTO was my husband was work from home long before covid and its really unfair to now mandate it after the original agreement before covid policies was work from home. We are 60-90 minutes from the office. Metro would be even longer when you factor in driving to the metro, parking, metro, 2 busses to the office.

Collaborating is ironic as they don't work in the same offices or even countries so they will still do it online or by phone and they don't have enough desk space for everyone to sit together. We are half joking about buying a portable desk and chair because there are no assigned desks and not enough space so to drive out an hour or more to sit on the floor is absurd.

This is my office too. I think it is all about optics. My new employee works in Utah. It is easier for me to interact with him when I am home so I do not bother those around me. We used to go in 1 day a week. Now it is 50%..and no we do not have assigned desks. Even if a team member and I are in on the same day we might be sitting on different floors and never see each other. I will retire earlier for sure.

This is what they want. Its for layoffs without saying layoffs. My husband's supervisor lives on the other side of the country, many co-workers are all over the world.

I agree. If we removed all remote positions and all reasonable accommodations, I think 1/3 of our office would retire or quit within 6 months.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The roads are so clogged now. Traffic is horrible. This is all so unnecessary when half these people can just stay home.

Seriously. It’s so ridiculous

I was never anti-RTO. But, we now have a senior leader who is so relentlessly pro-RTO in the face of so much evidence about people spending their whole day on Zoom calls with other employees elsewhere in the country. This person’s zealotry has really opened my eyes to the nonsensical nature of much RTO.

It really doesn't make sense, especially with Amazon as many jobs require flexibility and weekend and evening hours. Its easier to be flexible with work from home where if you know you have calls from 8-10 at night or later, you can flex during the day. My spouse gets pinged all hours of the day and night to fix things or clean up someone else's mistake. To expect him to get up at 2 AM, work an hour or two then get up at 5:30-6 to leave to get to work by 8, isn't reasonable. Those emergencies are going to have to wait now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The roads are so clogged now. Traffic is horrible. This is all so unnecessary when half these people can just stay home.

Seriously. It’s so ridiculous

I was never anti-RTO. But, we now have a senior leader who is so relentlessly pro-RTO in the face of so much evidence about people spending their whole day on Zoom calls with other employees elsewhere in the country. This person’s zealotry has really opened my eyes to the nonsensical nature of much RTO.

It really doesn't make sense, especially with Amazon as many jobs require flexibility and weekend and evening hours. Its easier to be flexible with work from home where if you know you have calls from 8-10 at night or later, you can flex during the day. My spouse gets pinged all hours of the day and night to fix things or clean up someone else's mistake. To expect him to get up at 2 AM, work an hour or two then get up at 5:30-6 to leave to get to work by 8, isn't reasonable. Those emergencies are going to have to wait now.

Yes. I'm at Amazon and looking as is everyone around me. Ironically, pre pandemic we were very flexible and in office 2 to 3 days a week so the 5 day RTO mandate is not even a return to the "norm" but a lot worse. Not sure if your spouse has noticed, but I have observed a shift in attitude that we now work 9 to 5 jobs. That's it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The roads are so clogged now. Traffic is horrible. This is all so unnecessary when half these people can just stay home.

Seriously. It’s so ridiculous

I was never anti-RTO. But, we now have a senior leader who is so relentlessly pro-RTO in the face of so much evidence about people spending their whole day on Zoom calls with other employees elsewhere in the country. This person’s zealotry has really opened my eyes to the nonsensical nature of much RTO.

It really doesn't make sense, especially with Amazon as many jobs require flexibility and weekend and evening hours. Its easier to be flexible with work from home where if you know you have calls from 8-10 at night or later, you can flex during the day. My spouse gets pinged all hours of the day and night to fix things or clean up someone else's mistake. To expect him to get up at 2 AM, work an hour or two then get up at 5:30-6 to leave to get to work by 8, isn't reasonable. Those emergencies are going to have to wait now.

Yes. I'm at Amazon and looking as is everyone around me. Ironically, pre pandemic we were very flexible and in office 2 to 3 days a week so the 5 day RTO mandate is not even a return to the "norm" but a lot worse. Not sure if your spouse has noticed, but I have observed a shift in attitude that we now work 9 to 5 jobs. That's it.

Amazon RTO is all about layoffs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The roads are so clogged now. Traffic is horrible. This is all so unnecessary when half these people can just stay home.

Seriously. It’s so ridiculous

I was never anti-RTO. But, we now have a senior leader who is so relentlessly pro-RTO in the face of so much evidence about people spending their whole day on Zoom calls with other employees elsewhere in the country. This person’s zealotry has really opened my eyes to the nonsensical nature of much RTO.

It really doesn't make sense, especially with Amazon as many jobs require flexibility and weekend and evening hours. Its easier to be flexible with work from home where if you know you have calls from 8-10 at night or later, you can flex during the day. My spouse gets pinged all hours of the day and night to fix things or clean up someone else's mistake. To expect him to get up at 2 AM, work an hour or two then get up at 5:30-6 to leave to get to work by 8, isn't reasonable. Those emergencies are going to have to wait now.

Yes. I'm at Amazon and looking as is everyone around me. Ironically, pre pandemic we were very flexible and in office 2 to 3 days a week so the 5 day RTO mandate is not even a return to the "norm" but a lot worse. Not sure if your spouse has noticed, but I have observed a shift in attitude that we now work 9 to 5 jobs. That's it.

I’m not at Amazon but my company recently did RTO. This is exactly how I’m handling it. I used to work in evenings and weekends. Now it is strictly 9-5 when I’m in the office. I see many others taking the same approach. In some ways I kind of like it more. But no doubt it is worse for the company.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The roads are so clogged now. Traffic is horrible. This is all so unnecessary when half these people can just stay home.

Seriously. It’s so ridiculous

I was never anti-RTO. But, we now have a senior leader who is so relentlessly pro-RTO in the face of so much evidence about people spending their whole day on Zoom calls with other employees elsewhere in the country. This person’s zealotry has really opened my eyes to the nonsensical nature of much RTO.

It really doesn't make sense, especially with Amazon as many jobs require flexibility and weekend and evening hours. Its easier to be flexible with work from home where if you know you have calls from 8-10 at night or later, you can flex during the day. My spouse gets pinged all hours of the day and night to fix things or clean up someone else's mistake. To expect him to get up at 2 AM, work an hour or two then get up at 5:30-6 to leave to get to work by 8, isn't reasonable. Those emergencies are going to have to wait now.

Yes. I'm at Amazon and looking as is everyone around me. Ironically, pre pandemic we were very flexible and in office 2 to 3 days a week so the 5 day RTO mandate is not even a return to the "norm" but a lot worse. Not sure if your spouse has noticed, but I have observed a shift in attitude that we now work 9 to 5 jobs. That's it.

Yes, huge shift in attitude with his flexibility as his co-workers and even his supervisor, who put in many flexible hours. A lot of them are going to the 9-5 attitude or will go in the mornings and leave by 2-3 to beat traffic and just put in a few more hours at home. There is little collaboration in the office when no one can sit together and there aren't enough desks. He was in the office very occasionally, not even 2-3 days a week, pre-pandemic. Its sad as they are going to lose a lot of good people for more flexible jobs and some of the new hires it sounds like aren't very good as they cannot get in the good talented people anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The roads are so clogged now. Traffic is horrible. This is all so unnecessary when half these people can just stay home.

Seriously. It’s so ridiculous

I was never anti-RTO. But, we now have a senior leader who is so relentlessly pro-RTO in the face of so much evidence about people spending their whole day on Zoom calls with other employees elsewhere in the country. This person’s zealotry has really opened my eyes to the nonsensical nature of much RTO.

It really doesn't make sense, especially with Amazon as many jobs require flexibility and weekend and evening hours. Its easier to be flexible with work from home where if you know you have calls from 8-10 at night or later, you can flex during the day. My spouse gets pinged all hours of the day and night to fix things or clean up someone else's mistake. To expect him to get up at 2 AM, work an hour or two then get up at 5:30-6 to leave to get to work by 8, isn't reasonable. Those emergencies are going to have to wait now.

Yes. I'm at Amazon and looking as is everyone around me. Ironically, pre pandemic we were very flexible and in office 2 to 3 days a week so the 5 day RTO mandate is not even a return to the "norm" but a lot worse. Not sure if your spouse has noticed, but I have observed a shift in attitude that we now work 9 to 5 jobs. That's it.

I’m not at Amazon but my company recently did RTO. This is exactly how I’m handling it. I used to work in evenings and weekends. Now it is strictly 9-5 when I’m in the office. I see many others taking the same approach. In some ways I kind of like it more. But no doubt it is worse for the company.

I think it would be good if there wasn't a 60-90 minute commute (more with rain and snow) so it makes for very long days. Amazon is going to have to adjust, especially the Seattle people who want 5-8 PM meetings as that is their mornings and now they will need to come in earlier for meetings with east coast and other countries as people will be done with work at 4-5.