RTO and employees who live outside the DC metro

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“People as far away as Howard County” will need to commute to DC…

You kids are hilarious!

ICYMI: People commuted to DC from as far away as WV 5 days a week before covid.

We’ve been hybrid (2 or 3 days in the office and the rest remote) since a year after covid. People complained and threatened to quit. Some did quit. The rest came back.

Lessons learned:

1. Some people had moved to states where we aren’t registered to do business. They were told to move back to the dc metro area or they could no longer work for us. Some did, some didn’t.

2. We didn’t miss anyone we lost. Everyone is replaceable. We quickly realized that the whiners were dead weight or morale killers.

3. Commuting to DC twice a week is NBD…even for those of us who live in far flung outer burbs.

4. We schedule in person meetings when we are downtown. It’s nice. And it’s critical for new hires…especially recent grads who need to learn by watching what happens outside meetings.

5. Some people really weren’t working hard enough when remote. We watched them closely when they returned, worked them hard, etc. We cut some loose. No regrets.

6. We give everyone flexibility. Professionals handle it well. Anyone whining about commutes and childcare, etc. isn’t someone I want on my team. Guess what? My commute is longer than your commute and I have more kids than you do. Figure it out.

7. I’m pretty sure one of my staff doesn’t have childcare for her baby. HR says there’s nothing we can say or do about it. Ridiculous!

Working in DC would be a lot better, but many jobs are in the middle of no where VA, where there is only one bridge and if there is an accident or snow, it can take hours to get there or get home. There is no good way to metro.

If someone doesn't want to work hard, they will not - in person or at home. Be real.

You probably have a nanny full-time caring for your kids. Most cannot afford that. You probably spend very little time with your kids.

You also are probably not on call 24-7 for a week at a time and have to get up at all hours to fix something, then get a few hours sleep to do an hour or more drive to go in. You probably just work your core hours and that's it. In Amazon its expected you work all day and night as its global. Normal is taking an 8 PM call with someone in another country. Those things will all stop now.

You sound miserable to work for which is probably why you had high turn over.

We didn’t have high turnover. We lost dead weight. The people who complained the most had either moved really far away or those who simply wanted to be fully remote because they didn’t want to work hard.

FTR, I don’t have a nanny, and I have a brutal commute. But I see my kids plenty since I only go downtown 2 or 3 times a week. I have lots of flexibility just like my coworkers. We are better off not being surrounded by complainers.

So, you get flexibility and only go in two days a week. We are talking about five days a week and a rough commute that is not downtown. You don’t get it.

You mean I did for 20 years before the pandemic?

Yes, I get it. I did for 20 years and it was fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The roads are so clogged now. Traffic is horrible. This is all so unnecessary when half these people can just stay home.

No one is taking Metro, yet it has never been so accessible.

Metro is miserable and unsafe. No thanks.

Do you ride it? I have been riding it for 30 years safely and not usually miserably (especially when I envision the drivers going over the ALB)

Are you a guy? It’s frequently a gross experience for women. I do not need another guy rubbing himself against my winter coat.

Not a guy. This has never happened to me or any of my coworkers who would have definitely mentioned it.

[Anonymous]

As an experienced professional, I love working from home. As a mom with two college kids who are actively seeking jobs and internships and are not applying to any full time remote positions, i think there is a lot of value to being in the office at least some days.

[Anonymous]

I do think young people miss out on some training in the hybrid workplace but the “schedule all meetings for in person days” just doesn’t work for us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“People as far away as Howard County” will need to commute to DC…

You kids are hilarious!

ICYMI: People commuted to DC from as far away as WV 5 days a week before covid.

We’ve been hybrid (2 or 3 days in the office and the rest remote) since a year after covid. People complained and threatened to quit. Some did quit. The rest came back.

Lessons learned:

1. Some people had moved to states where we aren’t registered to do business. They were told to move back to the dc metro area or they could no longer work for us. Some did, some didn’t.

2. We didn’t miss anyone we lost. Everyone is replaceable. We quickly realized that the whiners were dead weight or morale killers.

3. Commuting to DC twice a week is NBD…even for those of us who live in far flung outer burbs.

4. We schedule in person meetings when we are downtown. It’s nice. And it’s critical for new hires…especially recent grads who need to learn by watching what happens outside meetings.

5. Some people really weren’t working hard enough when remote. We watched them closely when they returned, worked them hard, etc. We cut some loose. No regrets.

6. We give everyone flexibility. Professionals handle it well. Anyone whining about commutes and childcare, etc. isn’t someone I want on my team. Guess what? My commute is longer than your commute and I have more kids than you do. Figure it out.

7. I’m pretty sure one of my staff doesn’t have childcare for her baby. HR says there’s nothing we can say or do about it. Ridiculous!

Working in DC would be a lot better, but many jobs are in the middle of no where VA, where there is only one bridge and if there is an accident or snow, it can take hours to get there or get home. There is no good way to metro.

If someone doesn't want to work hard, they will not - in person or at home. Be real.

You probably have a nanny full-time caring for your kids. Most cannot afford that. You probably spend very little time with your kids.

You also are probably not on call 24-7 for a week at a time and have to get up at all hours to fix something, then get a few hours sleep to do an hour or more drive to go in. You probably just work your core hours and that's it. In Amazon its expected you work all day and night as its global. Normal is taking an 8 PM call with someone in another country. Those things will all stop now.

You sound miserable to work for which is probably why you had high turn over.

We didn’t have high turnover. We lost dead weight. The people who complained the most had either moved really far away or those who simply wanted to be fully remote because they didn’t want to work hard.

FTR, I don’t have a nanny, and I have a brutal commute. But I see my kids plenty since I only go downtown 2 or 3 times a week. I have lots of flexibility just like my coworkers. We are better off not being surrounded by complainers.

So, you get flexibility and only go in two days a week. We are talking about five days a week and a rough commute that is not downtown. You don’t get it.

You mean I did for 20 years before the pandemic?

Yes, I get it. I did for 20 years and it was fine.

We also didn’t use video conferencing and it was fine.

Should we all get rid of Teams and go back to how it was pre-pandemic? After all, it was fine for 20 years, right?

[Anonymous]

It is a Zoomer vs. Boomer thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand how much longer this can go on. Commuting to sit on Teams calls all day with people in other cities is ridiculous. If they want us in the office they should take away video conferencing and Teams messaging capabilities.

Exactly except many teams don't work in the same building nor is there space for everyone to sit together. THey are still doing hot desks in some buildings.

This is what irritates me about my company. Some of our office locations moved to smaller spaces and got rid of assigned offices because everyone is working from home more. And then they instituted more days of RTO and people are fighting for office/desk space. And it's hard not to have an office space when you are in the office because most meetings are on Teams as people are all over the place. And even if everyone on a meeting is technically in the same office, there isn't enough office space for everyone to be in on the same day. You can't have both. Pick a plan and stick with it.

Oh and your mike picks up the three best buddies next to and across from you so you have to keep your mike muted the whole meeting which just slows everything down and is non-collaborative. But good thing you're in the office I guess?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is a Zoomer vs. Boomer thing.

No, I’m a 47 year old gen x woman and I am the one who is managing and judging the gen Z kids who don’t seem to want to work from anywhere really. My boomer parents are 75 and enjoying their retirements in Florida these days.

[Anonymous]

Yes look at the Starbucks CEO commuting via private jet. And touting the company's environmental sustainability lol. It's so bizarre and tome deaf - even he can't be bothered to move to Seattle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes look at the Starbucks CEO commuting via private jet. And touting the company's environmental sustainability lol. It's so bizarre and tome deaf - even he can't be bothered to move to Seattle.

He is now adhere to the hybrid work polices.

"While Brian will have an office in Southern California, his primary office and a majority of his time will be spent in our Seattle Support Center," said a Starbucks spokesperson in a statement to CBS MoneyWatch. "When he is not traveling for work, he will be in our Seattle office at least three days a week, in alignment with our hybrid work policies. He will also have a home in Seattle."

[Anonymous]

Office-based work is also completely out of sync with the real estate market. Most people change jobs multiple times throughout their careers. It makes no sense to uproot a family and take on the expense of selling a home to work for a job that you have not have (voluntarily or involuntarily) in five years. I even know people in the DC that have sold and bought homes when they changed jobs (e.g., moving between MD and VA or PG and MoCo counties) to be closer to work. Owning a home is a huge deterrent to changing jobs when in office work is required, even within in the same metro area when commutes can be very long.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Office-based work is also completely out of sync with the real estate market. Most people change jobs multiple times throughout their careers. It makes no sense to uproot a family and take on the expense of selling a home to work for a job that you have not have (voluntarily or involuntarily) in five years. I even know people in the DC that have sold and bought homes when they changed jobs (e.g., moving between MD and VA or PG and MoCo counties) to be closer to work. Owning a home is a huge deterrent to changing jobs when in office work is required, even within in the same metro area when commutes can be very long.

This is a great example of another tangential argument about RTO. My company has decided that we work best together in our office together in person, period full stop. Your real estate market concerns, child care arrangements, feelings about public transportation, etc are all irrelevant. If those are more of a priority for you please go somewhere else and we will find some other worker who better fits our company.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“People as far away as Howard County” will need to commute to DC…

You kids are hilarious!

ICYMI: People commuted to DC from as far away as WV 5 days a week before covid.

We’ve been hybrid (2 or 3 days in the office and the rest remote) since a year after covid. People complained and threatened to quit. Some did quit. The rest came back.

Lessons learned:

1. Some people had moved to states where we aren’t registered to do business. They were told to move back to the dc metro area or they could no longer work for us. Some did, some didn’t.

2. We didn’t miss anyone we lost. Everyone is replaceable. We quickly realized that the whiners were dead weight or morale killers.

3. Commuting to DC twice a week is NBD…even for those of us who live in far flung outer burbs.

4. We schedule in person meetings when we are downtown. It’s nice. And it’s critical for new hires…especially recent grads who need to learn by watching what happens outside meetings.

5. Some people really weren’t working hard enough when remote. We watched them closely when they returned, worked them hard, etc. We cut some loose. No regrets.

6. We give everyone flexibility. Professionals handle it well. Anyone whining about commutes and childcare, etc. isn’t someone I want on my team. Guess what? My commute is longer than your commute and I have more kids than you do. Figure it out.

7. I’m pretty sure one of my staff doesn’t have childcare for her baby. HR says there’s nothing we can say or do about it. Ridiculous!

Working in DC would be a lot better, but many jobs are in the middle of no where VA, where there is only one bridge and if there is an accident or snow, it can take hours to get there or get home. There is no good way to metro.

If someone doesn't want to work hard, they will not - in person or at home. Be real.

You probably have a nanny full-time caring for your kids. Most cannot afford that. You probably spend very little time with your kids.

You also are probably not on call 24-7 for a week at a time and have to get up at all hours to fix something, then get a few hours sleep to do an hour or more drive to go in. You probably just work your core hours and that's it. In Amazon its expected you work all day and night as its global. Normal is taking an 8 PM call with someone in another country. Those things will all stop now.

You sound miserable to work for which is probably why you had high turn over.

We didn’t have high turnover. We lost dead weight. The people who complained the most had either moved really far away or those who simply wanted to be fully remote because they didn’t want to work hard.

FTR, I don’t have a nanny, and I have a brutal commute. But I see my kids plenty since I only go downtown 2 or 3 times a week. I have lots of flexibility just like my coworkers. We are better off not being surrounded by complainers.

So, you get flexibility and only go in two days a week. We are talking about five days a week and a rough commute that is not downtown. You don’t get it.

You mean I did for 20 years before the pandemic?

Yes, I get it. I did for 20 years and it was fine.

We also didn’t use video conferencing and it was fine.

Should we all get rid of Teams and go back to how it was pre-pandemic? After all, it was fine for 20 years, right?

You clearly have no idea how a company like Amazon is. You have to use video conferencing and much more. Get out of your bubble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Office-based work is also completely out of sync with the real estate market. Most people change jobs multiple times throughout their careers. It makes no sense to uproot a family and take on the expense of selling a home to work for a job that you have not have (voluntarily or involuntarily) in five years. I even know people in the DC that have sold and bought homes when they changed jobs (e.g., moving between MD and VA or PG and MoCo counties) to be closer to work. Owning a home is a huge deterrent to changing jobs when in office work is required, even within in the same metro area when commutes can be very long.

This is a great example of another tangential argument about RTO. My company has decided that we work best together in our office together in person, period full stop. Your real estate market concerns, child care arrangements, feelings about public transportation, etc are all irrelevant. If those are more of a priority for you please go somewhere else and we will find some other worker who better fits our company.

No one cares about your company with hostile supervisors. There is no way to take public transportation to these buildings. We have teens, no child care issues, but when you are working all day and a few hours at night it’s a driving and safety issue. Do you have to get up at 2am regularly to fix something? Have calls between 7-12 at night? Calls at 6-7 am?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes look at the Starbucks CEO commuting via private jet. And touting the company's environmental sustainability lol. It's so bizarre and tome deaf - even he can't be bothered to move to Seattle.

Before Covid with Amazon people flew all over the place and to Seattle regularly. Huge waste on so many levels.