Lessons in masculinity: Jordan Peterson vs. Tim Walz

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, I think the term many are grasping for in this debate of masculinity is safety, and what is true safety in the masculine.

To me, I recognize safety in Tim Walz because he does hold the “masculine” traits of hunting, military etc but has an emotional maturity that allows him to use these traits to provide physical and emotional safety to himself and others. A key facet of safety is the ability to listen to others and really care about their position and situation.

Men who have not matured to that level are historically pretty terrifying. Men are bigger. This has always been something that can either be scary or protective for women and children.

It’s such a relief to see this kind of integrated safety in a man in a public forum. I hope that it does inspire others.

Great comment. I so want my children to learn this for both sexes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, I think the term many are grasping for in this debate of masculinity is safety, and what is true safety in the masculine.

To me, I recognize safety in Tim Walz because he does hold the “masculine” traits of hunting, military etc but has an emotional maturity that allows him to use these traits to provide physical and emotional safety to himself and others. A key facet of safety is the ability to listen to others and really care about their position and situation.

Men who have not matured to that level are historically pretty terrifying. Men are bigger. This has always been something that can either be scary or protective for women and children.

It’s such a relief to see this kind of integrated safety in a man in a public forum. I hope that it does inspire others.

Great post, thank you.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Thinking of this as TikTok has blown up over the last few days about “America’s Dad” as the new VP contender. Though it’s hard not to get tangled up in the obvious politics of it all, I really do see Tim Walz as the positive counter-example to the “masculinity crisis” and the problem with young men needing better role models.

For the last decade, a lot of lonely young men have turned to pseudo-intellectuals and influencers like Jordan Peterson (or worse, Andrew Tate) for guidance on how to be a man. What started with a benign but not exactly groundbreaking advice to “clean your room,” Jordan Peterson has ultimately steered young men towards online incel-dom, offering a veneer of bootstrap-style self-betterment advice but actually blaming everyone else (namely, women, non-traditional lifestyles, atheists, liberals, LGBTQ people, or whatever the hell cultural Marxism is) for his own insecurities. He gets really emotional over weird things yet claims to be this father figure to help young men set themselves right, when he is clearly… not alright.

VP contender Tim Walz is exactly the opposite. Of course I don’t personally know the guy or his non-public family situation, I’m going on public persona and vibes here: this is how you be a secure, masculine man. Be capable of all the traditionally manly stuff (hunting, fixing cars, serving in the military, football, what have you) while not being all hung up about women’s menstrual products and supporting women’s aspirations. Serving your community and being a good Dad. Being positive, funny, and laughing at yourself. You don’t even have to like his politics, but his version of masculinity is what most women want.

Too many young men think that they have to choose between Andrew Tate and Soy Boy, or that allowing others to live their lives the way they choose to somehow threatens their own masculinity.

Anyways, since politics is too polarizing, there needs to be more examples of all-American, positive masculine role models for young men, to want to be capable grown men who serve their country and want to be good Dads.

The bolded is the key, and I simply think you’re wrong. Most women are not looking for the enlisted/NCO/public school teacher/football coach. Those men will overwhelmingly trend right and being married to three of those categories is objectively hard and the fourth one (teacher) presents financial challenges (although it isn’t as demanding on the family).

The reason why young men follow Tate, Peterson and the others is because those influencers offer young men paradigms that fit the lived experience of those men (whether you agree with them or not is irrelevant). TW won’t speak to those men.

And not for nothing, Mitt Romney met a lot of your criteria and he was labeled a racist. People remember that.

I think the point is not the specifics of what Walz does/did for a living. It is that he did things we tend to think of as stereotypically male but he seems to still have empathy and kindness and not take himself too seriously.

FWIW, I am a Dem, but I liked Mitt Romney as a person. He seemed like a decent guy. I don't recall people I know calling him racist.

You’re fighting q caricature? A lot of the men you disagree with politically do have empathy, kindness and don’t take themselves too seriously, but it manifests in ways you don’t agree with.

I mean, precisely which of Jordan Peterson’s 12 Rules for Life do you find offensive?

lol are we really going to do this? I can agree that being a decent man is generally unrelated to how you vote. But Jordan Peterson is an off-putting weirdo who appears obsessed with what other people do and say. He is NOT a decent, dad-like, salt-of-the-earth guy’s guy, and that is self-evident to all! that doesn’t mean he doesn’t sometimes say or write worthwhile things but overall … he’s extremely offputting and that is why women do not like him.

I saw Jordan Peterson on Bill Maher mansplain to a Black woman panelist (I forget who) about how she should raise her children. He not so subtly put her down and offered advice she did ask for. His comments struck me as very sexist. He is a philosophy professor who got some traction and now thinks he should pontificate about life. Enough. He's not unique in this way. It happens to many people who get successful. Also, I'm sick of hearing about how bad things are for men and giving these fringe influencers so much attention. Most men are doing okay as are most women. There is too much emphasis on gender differences and the use of ideas like how paleo people lived ( I mean, who the heck really knows and why is it at all relevant in 2024?) or biological arguments.

I don’t mean to say this as an insult but Jordan Peterson has some fairly severe mental health issues but apparently zero insight into how these impact his interpretation of interpersonal relationships.

I think it’s all an act to get fame and money. Same as Slavoj Zizek on the far left. Yuck.

Agreed. As someone else said he doesn't live his life this way. He just understands this is his audience and caters to them.

[Anonymous]

Guy supports communism and defund the police. Let Minneapolis burn to the ground when he was governor. No thx

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Guy supports communism and defund the police. Let Minneapolis burn to the ground when he was governor. No thx

I’m Minnesotan and this is false.

And I’m moderate so I don’t have a major axe to grind here but Walz is the real deal. We are sad to lose him but he could do great things for the country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guy supports communism and defund the police. Let Minneapolis burn to the ground when he was governor. No thx

I’m Minnesotan and this is false.

And I’m moderate so I don’t have a major axe to grind here but Walz is the real deal. We are sad to lose him but he could do great things for the country.

So you’re saying he doesn’t support defund the police ? He’s quoted saying it on numerous occasions. People were killed in those riots in Minneapolis under his leadership. I guess that didn’t happen either ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guy supports communism and defund the police. Let Minneapolis burn to the ground when he was governor. No thx

I’m Minnesotan and this is false.

And I’m moderate so I don’t have a major axe to grind here but Walz is the real deal. We are sad to lose him but he could do great things for the country.

So you’re saying he doesn’t support defund the police ? He’s quoted saying it on numerous occasions. People were killed in those riots in Minneapolis under his leadership. I guess that didn’t happen either ?

I don’t have the energy for this but you can google. He does not seek to defund the police, is not a communist, and took appropriate action during the riots. I live one mile from Cup Foods, the epicenter of the Floyd riots. If I had something negative to say about Walz I would be well-placed to say it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guy supports communism and defund the police. Let Minneapolis burn to the ground when he was governor. No thx

I’m Minnesotan and this is false.

And I’m moderate so I don’t have a major axe to grind here but Walz is the real deal. We are sad to lose him but he could do great things for the country.

So you’re saying he doesn’t support defund the police ? He’s quoted saying it on numerous occasions. People were killed in those riots in Minneapolis under his leadership. I guess that didn’t happen either ?

I don’t have the energy for this but you can google. He does not seek to defund the police, is not a communist, and took appropriate action during the riots. I live one mile from Cup Foods, the epicenter of the Floyd riots. If I had something negative to say about Walz I would be well-placed to say it.

Thanks for that. The other PP is obviously very attached to his political party & is fishing around for excuses to dislike Walz.